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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    What was the change in Malibu sales from Dec. '11 to Dec. '12?


    '11 13,034 vs '12 11,630
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    Thanks. I think that's probably as close to a true reading on how the '13 versus the '12 is doing, than anything else. Of course, is inventory higher now than then? Could certainly be, as I'm sure the '12's were done being built by then, and the '13's weren't out yet.

    I honestly thing the one thing that is keeping that car from selling better: the back seat.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I honestly thing the one thing that is keeping that car from selling better: the back seat.

    I seem to recall someone saying that that back seat was a mistake. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Verano is definitely cannibalizing the Regal.

    I don't think customers go to a Buick store looking for a sporty sedan. This is a case of not-every-division-should-try-to-be-sporty.

    Having said that, GM has economies of scale since it is sold in Europe.

    With aging baby boomers, why not let Buick be Buick?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    You read it here first....I have seen no one comment negatively on the back seat, here or in a magazine...before I did.

    It's said that 'numbers don't lie', and the published numbers for the Malibu's rear seat are two inches larger than Sonata's. As I've said, I would think there'd be an SAE-standard for interior measurements, but maybe not.

    When the wheelbase shrinks five inches, it has to come out of somewhere. I noticed it in the look of the length of the rear doors, first one I ever saw, late last winter.

    Damn, bpizzuti, I still haven't seen a new SS or Captiva on my dealer's lot!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Verano is definitely cannibalizing the Regal.

    Definitely, looking at monthly sales, Regal sales basically dropped 50% once the Verano made it on dealer lots.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Thanks. I think that's probably as close to a true reading on how the '13 versus the '12 is doing, than anything else. Of course, is inventory higher now than then? Could certainly be, as I'm sure the '12's were done being built by then, and the '13's weren't out yet.

    I honestly thing the one thing that is keeping that car from selling better: the back seat.


    IIRC, there was an article or two mentioning the '12 model was outselling the '13 model well into 2012. Looking at the monthly numbers, the Malibu had some solid sales months through mid year, then really dropped when the '13 model was on it's own.

    IMO, the Malibu just doesn't stand out. I don't doubt it's a nice car, but from my perspective it just doesn't grab my attention or interest. I think I'd buy an Accord, Fusion, or Passat.

    Like Andre has mentioned, if I wanted to buy a Chevy, I'd probably just buy a Cruze over the Malibu. I don't know if there is any correlation or not, but Cruze sales have increased quite a bit since mid '12.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    If I had to buy any of those cars, I'd actually buy the Malibu...shocker, huh? I want an American brand with a dealer near me, and IMHO only, the Fusion doesn't pass the 'looks' test and of course, Mexico is 'meh' to me on a personal level only.

    I do think most car customers are not 'car guys' and are largely influenced by a handful of magazine writers...but we've been there before.

    One would think that with the absence of highly-publicized recalls of late, and CR putting some recent Ford models on 'worst' lists and the like, that GM would be picking up some, but apparently not yet. Perception lags reality as they say.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Accord is made in the US and got a top score in that tough new IIHS test, so I'd send my money to Marysville, Ohio. Buckeyes deserve a pat on the back for that effort.

    When will US Fusion production begin?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I have no idea, but not soon enough IMHO.

    I'd send my money to Fairfax, KS, and also to Detroit over Marysville and Japan! ;)

    (Not meant as fighting words, so calm down, those of you so inclined! LOL)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    One would think that with the absence of highly-publicized recalls of late, and CR putting some recent Ford models on 'worst' lists and the like, that GM would be picking up some, but apparently not yet. Perception lags reality as they say.

    Comparing '11 to '12 December numbers it looks like the Accord (up 66%), and Sonota (up 20%) are picking up those sales.

    Stripping away any biases and just looking at the stats. The new Accord is impressive. Top safety scores, top FE ratings, good performance, plenty of room, and non offensive looks (IMO anyway). Add a good reputation you have a car that nearly matches the sales numbers of the Fusion and Malibu combined in Dec. Take away fleet sales and only look at retail customers and it's likely even more of a blow out as the Honda rarely sells more than 5% to fleets vs. 20-30% for a Malibu and Fusion.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'd send my money to Fairfax, KS, and also to Detroit over Marysville and Japan! ;)

    Nothing wrong with that, but to many of us there is one more factor. If I'm spending $25-30k, I'm buying the car I like the best.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Damn, bpizzuti, I still haven't seen a new SS or Captiva on my dealer's lot!

    The SS is going to be special order only apparently. And you must not be looking very hard on the Captiva, took me less than 10 seconds on Google to find a dealer with Captivas. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's an all American car, too, as Japan and Europe get a different car (TSX).

    One miss - fuel capacity isn't as much as class leaders so range could have been better. Call it a missed opportunity.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Me too...although I wouldn't be spending $30K.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    Fleet dealers, apparently. Let me go to Chevy's site and try and 'work one up'. I'm talking new, too--I can't tell if you are or not.;)

    The SS is not out yet.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    Spoke too soon about lack of GM recalls:

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/gm-recalls-54686-2013-vehicles-for-rollaway-risk- .html

    It ain't 600K Subarus, but I did learn something positive (IMHO) from the link. I was under the impression, as I think many here were too, that Suburbans and Escalades were made in Mexico. This says Arlington, TX and I doubt they manufacture in Texas and Mexico, but I don't know that for a fact.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Me too...although I wouldn't be spending $30K.

    Okay $20k. Currently anyway I'd think it would be hard to get a Malibu out the door for less than that.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    I was under the impression, as I think many here were too, that Suburbans and Escalades were made in Mexico.

    I know for a fact that some Suburbans and Yukons were made in Mexico. My '00 Suburban was made there and in '08 when I was shopping for it's replacement, every Yukon and Suburban I looked at came from Mexico.

    I read on Wikipedia that after 09 production for the US market is all here and Mexican made Suburbans stay in Mexico.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Thanks, dieselone. That sure is contrary to the conventional wisdom that more and more 'domestic' production is ending up in Mexico.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Thanks, dieselone. That sure is contrary to the conventional wisdom that more and more 'domestic' production is ending up in Mexico.

    I didn't know it either until I looked it up. Considering those SUVs haven't changed since '07 and at that time, they were being built in Mexico for the US market, I had no reason to think anything had changed.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    When will US Fusion production begin?

    Not until May or June. Ford is spending over $500 million to upgrade the plant with a new body and paint shops. When at full capacity, they'll have 1200 new employees running 2 shifts.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Is Mexico considered American?

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_vehicles_in_the_United_States

    While imports have been gaining ground in terms of units sold during the 2000s and have regained roughly the same market share they held in 1992, the sales of domestic vehicles are still more than double those of imported vehicles. It should be noted, however that the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics "Includes cars produced in Canada and Mexico" as domestic vehicles as both countries are part of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), thus including many cars by Asian and European manufacturers - many Volkswagens are made in Mexico, Toyotas in Canada, also.

    Seems the US Bureau of Transportation considers Mexican production domestic, ie., American.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    On content labels, North America has always meant Canada, U.S., and Mexico I believe....but I think most people don't think of Canada and Mexico as "America" and I genuinely believe most people here know that (not aimed at you, busiris).

    To me, U.S. is "America", and I'd venture a guess that most people, other than those who like to argue (!), would have that same opinion.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    Some Mexicans don't accept the Louisiana Purchase as valid so I guess we're even, then. :D
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    No offense taken.

    I just ran across the definition of "domestic", as determined by the government, and thought others might be interested in seeing it, so that when the term is used, at least we can all understand how the government (US Bureau of Transportation Statistics) defines "domestic" content.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I honestly thing the one thing that is keeping that car from selling better: the back seat.

    That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it would be to say the competition is building better cars for less money and/or better value and bang for the buck.

    The competition definitely has something to do with low Malibu sales.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it would be to say the competition is building better cars for less money

    You can say 'better', but for less money? Give me a drag of what you're smokin'! ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Are you saying Chevy is the low cost leader? The cheapest cars one can buy?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    He said "building" better cars for less money. Considering GM's profit margin is
    not leading in any way, I'd say "Most" competitors "build" cars for less than GM.

    Unless you smoke some serious Green! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    You've got to be kidding me...you actually thought that's what he meant, versus 'for sale for less money?'.

    I'll comment further when you post a serious statement.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    I would say the only other car of its general size that could probably be bought for less is the Chrysler 200. I've considered my GM's good values. But what would I know, I only own two right now.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited January 2013
    OK.

    General Motors (GM) appears to have regained its position as the leading auto maker by unit sales in the world after having been ousted from the spot four years ago. For a related story see this link. Just looking at the numbers, GM appears to be very well positioned for continued growth in both the top and bottom lines. The problem is that most of us just aren't buying the idea that the GM culture and management has changed sufficiently to continue to make improvements. Of course the debt situation is much improved. But will it stay that way? Even with its greatly improved capital structure, GM is still lagging Ford and Toyota with a lower net margin ratio. The company states that it intends to improve margins in the future but I have not been convinced that management has a comprehensive strategy that will effect that change.

    So, because they over-price their cars and then add incentives (since they can't balance production/capacity/inventory to save their lives), they make less per vehicle sold and the competition can price less than GM and still make more money.

    Seriously. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The other way to look at it would be to say the competition is building better cars for less money and/or better value and bang for the buck.

    The competition definitely has something to do with low Malibu sales.


    It could also bee poor reputation. Even if the product is just as good, if the history is poor it's going to take some new track record to prove that before many people are going to gamble with $20K+.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    The thing is, the history isn't poor. Look at your CR.

    Or, J.D. Edwards:

    http://autos.jdpower.com/content/press-release-auto/Q5wPftR/2012-u-s-vehicle-dep- endability-study.htm

    Man, Audi, Subaru, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, Kia, VW, and Infiniti have some catching up to do, to get to where Chevy is! ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited January 2013
    Or, J.D. Edwards:

    You mean J.D. Power? :blush:

    No problem! Chevy was better in 2009 than all of the brands you mentioned if you take the rags for Gospel, which we all know you don't. So, these numbers run counter to your argument...unless you are now, somehow, mysteriously, flexible! :surprise:

    Must be those meds. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    Yes, J.D. Edwards is an A/P system used by a lot of companies I've been to!

    It's OK for others to praise 'the rags', then not use them when they don't fit their agenda...I'm posting it here for all you guys' edification! ;)

    I don't buy a car based on what a magazine says, but a lot of people here think that's the wise thing to do. Again, just bringing it to your attention!

    BTW, I'm not aware of "J.D. Powers" magazine.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Some Mexicans don't accept the Louisiana Purchase as valid so I guess we're even, then

    Did you mean "Frenchmen"?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited January 2013
    BTW, I'm not aware of "J.D. Powers" magazine.

    It's a virtual 'rag". :)

    J.D.Power

    The editors/staff drive a heck of a lot more cars than we do so their opinion has more weight than, say, your neighbor or you B.I.L./cousin/etc.

    The studies conducted by your hated CR or J.D. Power, your favorite, are but a guide. The bottom line for GM is they lost market share and went bankrupt for many a reason. They might have gone to confession but they are a long way from being saved.

    From a fan's perspective, it was the sad-cased customers that deserted GM who ultimately failed GM.

    The rags only reflect the reality, hurt as it does. On the other hand, even some of the "rags" have been positive towards GM lately. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My bad I meant Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Your link has Lexus at the top, FWIW.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The thing is, the history isn't poor. Look at your CR.

    I think you meant JD Power. JD Edwards was an ERP company bought by Oracle as I recall.

    Well it's certainly poor for the brand, if not the Malibu specifically. And I'm sure the bailouts did not help for at least a proportion of the public. Even if an additional 10% of the people shun GM who wouldn't have otherwise, that's a handicap.

    Your link is for initial quality, which is not what will generally create a long term reputation. It's the 50-100K mile range where reputations are built.

    I have in front of me the CR annual buying guide for Dec 2012. Looking at the 4 cyl Malibu, it rates reliablity for '06-'11 all as average, except for '09 which is better than average. For the 6 cyl, they rank '06, '09, '10 as average, and '07, '08, and '11 as worse than average.

    I also see other Chevy products such as the Cobalt - 5 of 6 years '06-'11 are worse than average; for the '11 Cruze much worse than average; for the Equniox from '06-'09 worse than average, improving to average for the last 3 years; and the Impala shows 2 of 6 years much worse than average; 2 of 6 years worse than average; and 2 of 6 years average. So among cars, the brand -- not very good.

    Contrast this with Ford Fusions v6 and 4cyl showing much better than average for 4 of the combined 12 years of models; and all other years for both engines either better than average or average, with nothing worse than average in any of those 12 combined years (6 for each engine).

    The Honda Fit is much better than average all six years. The Honda Civic is much better than average 4 of 6 years, better than average the remainder. The Honda Accord is average to much better than average across all years for both 4 and 6 cyl engines.

    The Toyota Corolla has only one average year and all the others are better or much better than average. The Camry both 4 and 6 cyl has only one average in the 12 combined years and all other years are better or much better than average.

    The 2008 Malibu rates poorly in overall dependability at JD Power, too:
    2008
    The 2009 rates somewhat better, up to their second-lowest, rather than their lowest rating:
    2009
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    So, these numbers run counter to your argument...unless you are now, somehow, mysteriously, flexible!

    I think some poster are, umm, selectively flexible! :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Your link is for initial quality, which is not what will generally create a long term reputation. It's the 50-100K mile range where reputations are built.

    Wrong. The link is for problems with 2009 vehicles in 2012.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    edited January 2013
    You did not mention one single brand that was below Chevrolet on that list. Those are models, too, that are continually mentioned as better-than-GM on this forum. Please report findings and post here as well. And no 'cherry picking' please.

    I am continually delighted at my Cobalt after 62K miles, particularly for its $9,900 purchase price new...built by workers who live where and near where I live. It's all good.

    The 2011 Cruze did have issues in its first year, as has the 2012 Focus...'much worse than average' in CR. The Cruze has improved to 'average' for 2012...this is all CR. I still buy based on my own inspection and experiences.

    As for the Fusion...as somehere posted that they wouldn't care if a Cavalier went 500K miles without a problem, I feel that way about the Fusion. I dislike the styling and of course, the 'made in Mexico' as a way only to not pay American workers to build the car, but those in a much, much poorer country--is distasteful to me personally. But unlike one pro-foreign buff here, I'm not wishing death and destruction on those workers or Ford executives! Talk about 'meds'!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Your link has Lexus at the top, FWIW.

    Guess I'll have to shop them when I want to replace my under-$10K-new Cobalt. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    And even though I used J.D. Power as an example here, I will backstep and say that here is an example of things I don't like about CR and JDP.

    The 2008 Malibu was available in four-cylinder and V6 versions, one with a four-speed trans and the other with a six-speed. The results make no differentiation at all for that. Those are two hugely different, large components of the car.

    I posted just to say, 'hey guys, here's something that says some of the most beloved brands mentioned here aren't so reliable, either, contrary to constant posts otherwise', but it does point out the sweeping generalizations made by organizations as JDP and CR as well.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I am continually delighted at my Cobalt after 62K miles, particularly for its $9,900 purchase price new...built by workers who live where and near where I live. It's all good.

    It's good for you, but not necessarily for GM . I don't see how they could have made a profit by discounting your Cobalt that much.

    So I guess we are similar in that we'll both buy GM products if discounted enough;) Just kidding of course!

    From what I've seen in the used market, you're Cobalt is probably still worth close to what you paid for it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    When I was looking for used cars for my daughter in 2010, I saw that both Cobalts and Focuses were more than I wanted to pay!

    Well, for full disclosure, I should say that my Cobalt was bought at invoice ($14.9K), had a $3K rebate, and I had $2K of GM card earnings. So if I wasn't a GM card holder, it'd been $11.9K. Still, with AC, ABS, floormats, satellite radio, and side moldings (all I wanted...ABS was hard to find on a cheapy, as were four doors), I still think it'd have been a good value.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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