GM News, New Models and Market Share

uplanderguy

Being this is a GM board, I guess that their supporters have Blind Loyalty.

Again, it's astonishingly arrogant to post on a GM board how 'blind' a loyal GM customer is.

Again, I don't like Toyotas, but I don't have a Freudian need to post there constantly just to belittle Toyotas and their owners. Astounding.

xrunner2

Best I recall from car magazines in past years when Cavalier was in production, it was never rated very well when compared to better offerings from other car manufacturers at the time such as Honda and Toyota. Civic was most always rated higher in most test attributes and other factors such as fit, finish, interior, suspension, transmission, engine, etc.

uplanderguy

Funny, my B-I-L had a new Civic, although had it repossessed. This is the guy who commented positively on my Cavalier.

Sometimes, you have to make the best decisions for you, and not be led by a handful (and that's all it is) of magazine writers.

xrunner2

Sometimes, you have to make the best decisions for you, and not be led by a handful (and that's all it is) of magazine writers.

Magazine car/vehicle testers and Edmunds testers and their written results are useful. But, probably not the determinant when selecting a car for purchase or lease. They can highlight things, both positive and negative, that a potential car owner can then further explore when visiting the new car showroom to look over the vehicle and then to test drive. When they make comparisons of features, mention negatives and do comparison tests, the points they make can be further explored when visiting the showrooms of 2 or 3 brand one might have under consideration. Assuming one has an open mind.

dieselone

I rarely comment on the Cobalt other than styling due to never being in one. But as for the Cavalier, yuck, I've yet to be remotely impressed by a Cavalier and I don't care if everyone goes 500k miles. I don't like how they look, and I liked driving them even less.

uplanderguy

And that's OK, I won't knock you for saying that. Wish the reverse were true.

My last Cavalier, a dark green metallic coupe with optional upsized tires and wheels, and five-speed, I thought was actually stylish...much better than what was out there at the same price.

dieselone

And that's OK, I won't knock you for saying that. Wish the reverse were true.


I guess it is now. I like the Cruze, though I've never driven one, but from what I've seen, they look good inside and out.

uplanderguy

Not responding to you dieselone, but in the 'do as I say, not as I do' department, there's a lot of trash-talking of GM product by several people routinely on this board....without any even so much as sitting in one yet driving one. There's open-minded for you.

andre1969

I never felt the need to go 'up' the GM hierarchy. I don't fault anybody else who did. Usually, until you got to the Ninety-Eight, Electra, and Cadillac, was there something there that there wasn't an equivalent line at Chevrolet. Often, I actually preferred Chevrolet's simpler styling.

Same here, for the most part. I guess the highest up GM's hierarchy I ever got was the 2000 Park Ave Ultra, with perhaps my grandmother's '85 LeSabre Limited coming in second, and maybe my old '69 Bonneville coming in 3rd.

Kinda hard to compare the '69 and '85 directly, though. In '69, I'd consider a Bonneville to be above a LeSabre, but in '85 it certainly wasn't.

Usually, it's the style of a car that attracts me in the first place. For instance, I'd love to have a '62 Cadillac, but not because it's GM's flagship. It's simply because I love the style. Go back one year, to '61, and if I could have any one GM car it would be a '61 Pontiac...again, because I love that style.

As for "blind loyalty", in the end it's best to get what works for you. For instance, my Mom's '99 Altima has been a reliable car, other than the transmission crapping at 35,000 miles. I think it has around 340,000 on it now, though, so it's more than redeemed itself. But, as good of a car as it's been, I hate it. Well, maybe "hate" is a strong word, but I think it's ugly, it's cramped inside, and it's uncomfortable. You couldn't give me that car. And lord knows, my Mom and stepdad have tried! And, I actually like Nissan, so it's not like I have any brand bias.

No matter how reliable a car is, you still have to like it. It still has to fit your needs and wants.

dieselone

No matter how reliable a car is, you still have to like it. It still has to fit your needs and wants.

True, I've had completely reliable cars I couldn't stand and have had unreliable cars I've liked.

bpizzuti

Not responding to you dieselone, but in the 'do as I say, not as I do' department, there's a lot of trash-talking of GM product by several people routinely on this board....without any even so much as sitting in one yet driving one. There's open-minded for you.

On the other hand, there's also a lot of trash-talking of GM product by several people on this board who HAVE driven them. Keep that in mind.

fintail

Funny, of cars that have been legally titled in my name, all have been MB. My first car was a 66 Ford, but was in my parents name as I was 16. Had a Datsun 510 (wagon, automatic, not a race car) given to me that I sold before completing paperwork, and drove a family owned Tempo around now and then too.

My mother drove mostly Fords from well before I was born through the late 00s, now has a Camry. My dad was all over the place, but mostly domestics. Same for my grandfather, liked large Chrysler and GM vehicles most, but also ran Toyota and VW as company cars.

andre1969

On my Dad's side of the family, my grandparents' first car was a used 1949 Ford.
From there they went to a '57 Ford Fairlane 500, '61 Ford Galaxie 500, '63 Monterrey, '66 Tempest, '71 Tempest, '75 Dart Swinger, '77 Granada, '81 Granada, '85 LTD, '89 Taurus, and then finally, a '94 Taurus that Granddad gave to one of my cousins when he quit driving in 2004, when he turned 90.

They were willing to try other cars, as evidenced by the two Pontiacs and the Dart. By 1966, all the kids were adults and they didn't really need a big car anymore, and liked the looks of the Tempest, so they gave it a try. I remember Granddad saying that it tended to stall, but it was still good enough, I guess, that they traded it for a '71. Which, towards the end of its life with them, started stalling as well.

The '75 Dart came around because one of Grandmom's co-workers had a '74 that she liked a lot. But the '75 pretty much stalled out, right off the showroom floor and the dealer never could get it fixed right. So they traded in '77 for the Granada.

Once Grandkids came into the picture though, Grandmom and Granddad never went back to bigger cars. For one thing, I guess, it's not like they had to cart us around all the time. And, even though there are six of us, they rarely had to contend with all of us at once. And, we were little kids so you could just squeeze us in!

I guess it was logical that Grandmom and Granddad never went for an import car because, for the most part, the imports didn't make the size of car they wanted. Well I guess you can argue that a '77 Granada is awfully similar to a Mercedes Benz :P but when the price is factored in they're worlds apart.

I wonder, if Granddad had bought one last car, what he would have gotten? He wasn't used to keeping cars more than 3-4 years for the most part, so by 2000 that Taurus seemed really old to him. I took him out to look at the new Taurus, as I liked the refresh at the time, but Granddad hated the car. Salesman had to beg him to even sit in it!

He liked my 2000 Intrepid, but I told him it probably wouldn't be a good car for him because it was hard to see out of. My Dad thought about having him try out a Chevy Impala, but we never got that far, as he decided to just keep the Taurus.

uplanderguy

Lately? Not that I've seen. Also, not even late '00-decade products.

uplanderguy

Well I guess you can argue that a '77 Granada is awfully similar to a Mercedes Benz

Why, even parking meter cops can't tell 'em apart if they're the same color!!

Remember those Ford ads? That is rather comical.

uplanderguy

Worst values...not a GM on the list.

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/2012-consumer-reports-worst-value/?ncid=webmail5

bpizzuti

Might want to clean those glasses then. I always test drive GMs, we get a discount on them. Test drove the Cruze a couple of times actually.

uplanderguy

Maybe you can show me where you posted that. Nah, no big deal. I wasn't speaking about you specifically, as you can see, though.

bpizzuti

I know that, but I wanted to make sure you understood that some of us criticizing GM are very familiar with their products. You usually paint with a pretty broad brush that whole thing about criticizing without ever having driven them, and doing that is pretty far off-base. There are SOME here like that. But by no means all.

fintail

Funny list. 750Li is worst value, Prius is best. But I know which one I would rather drive.

Also, C70 a "sporty" car?

uplanderguy

paint with a pretty broad brush

Yeah, there's more of that on this particular forum than any other one I post to, Edmunds or otherwise.

circlew

I don't follow the crowds.

You do now.

More like the crowds follow me!

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

OK, circle, you got me on that one!

circlew

You usually paint with a pretty broad brush that whole thing about criticizing without ever having driven them, and doing that is pretty far off-base.

Cross-shopped the CX-9 with the Enclave. While nice enough, the Mazda handled immensely better...particularly for the thousands in savings. As far as OBO's choice of the Acadia, ggod luck with GMC. I'm done with that brand forever. :shades:

Regards,
OW

berri

I haven't been in a Mazda for awhile now. I remember them as sporty, but kind of tinny. That may have well changed. I think those are two very different vehicles. I can understand someone going with a Lambda though if they want a smooth, quiet highway vehicle. They actually handle well for their size and weight. But if I was going to get one and keep it beyond 4 or 5 years, I'd probably get an extended warranty based on the blogs I've read. I suppose you could split the difference and get a Highlander; pretty smooth, decent mileage and quality, but not as large as the GM, and probably noticeably less expensive comparably equipped. I don't know, but I suspect it would also have better depreciation than either the Mazda or Acadia.

andres3

True, I've had completely reliable cars I couldn't stand and have had unreliable cars I've liked.

I've had very reliable cars that I liked a lot, and a relatively reliable car I love, but the unreliable one was SO unreliable, no one, and I mean no one, could like or love that car.

As I've said, if it ran, it would have been decent, but there is unreliable, and then there is criminally negligent.

May Chrysler execs rot in hell.

andres3

The Mazda 3 I had a recent model rental was definitely TINNY especially for an Audi A3 driver. I noticed how the sheet metal looked like Pepsi can-like thin on the side of the door (where you can only see the side of the front quarter panel when the door is open.)

When I test drove the Mazda 3 prior to buying the A3 in 2006, it didn't seem so tinny. So either they've gone downhill or getting used to a bank vault on wheels has altered me.

banacekma

I currently have 3 vehicles register in MA but only one is currently driveable due to mechanical issues. I have a 2000 Chevy 1500 Silverado 2-WD extended cab pick-up truck with 145,000 miles, a 2004 Buick Rendezvous with 114,000 miles and a 2000 Nissan Altima with 110,000 miles. The Buick Rendezvous has been at the mechanics for the last 2 weeks due to overheating issues. It has finally been diagnosed with needing new head gaskets. This is a common occurence with this vehicle, not only the 2002/2003 model years. This repair is currently estimated at $2100. The Chevy Silverado just started making noise from the rear axle. It appears that the rear end needs to be rebuilt at an estimated cost of over $1,000. I can't afford to buy a new vehicle or used vehicle with reasonable mileage due to financial issues with the economy and paying for college tuitions. I guess I will need to reconsider which vehicle to purchase after things settle down and I can afford to purchase a replacement vehicle. The GM products don't seem to be holding up as well mechanically as other vehicle currently in production.
The 2000 Nissan Altima is purring like a kitten. No major issues.

fintail

I was thinking, my paternal grandfather was definitely a Chevy man - can only remember one Ford in his fleet during my lifetime (other than a Pinto my wacky grandma had when I was a little kid), and I know going back to maybe 1950, he had Chevies - he had like 5 Corvairs, and his last new car was a dustbuster Lumina van.

My maternal grandfather had no real brand loyalty - a couple Chryslers, but after a big mid 70s model, he slowly downsized too. His favorite car was a red '65 sedan, which he and my uncle would often talk about. Traded it on a fuselage model, which turned out to be not nearly as good.

uplanderguy

May Chrysler execs rot in hell.

Wow. This is based on a 1994 or '95 Neon.

Calling Dr. Phil!

uplanderguy

You may be interested in post no. 171 from the Edmunds host, here. It shows that for model years 2005 and later, as of Nov. 2012, NHTSA complaints about Nissan are over 50% more in number than GM:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efe3917/152

I know that your experience with older models don't correlate to what's been happening later, apparently.

stever

This should be a more direct link:

"Worst Cars" #171

Kirstie_H

We have a 1998 Silverado 1500 4WD Extended cab, about the same mileage as yours. Just had the rear-end rebuilt last month at a cost of $1500. Your truck is 13+ years old, and ours is 15+ years old... a few repairs aren't all that unexpected. I will say that after the rebuild, she runs like a charm and has otherwise been ultra-reliable. Way better than a car payment, for sure.

imidazol97

>The Chevy Silverado just started making noise from the rear axle. It appears that the rear end needs to be rebuilt at an estimated cost of over $1,000. I can't afford to buy a new vehicle or used vehicle with reasonable mileage due to financial issues with the economy and paying for college tuitions.

Have you considered finding one at junkyard to switch in? Was this diagnosed by a dealer? I'd check an independent who specializes in trucks to see his price and recommendation. Was there an oil change for the differential before 145,000 due in the service specifications.

The Rendevouz engine may be the same as the EQuinox engine friends have. After lots of nonmaintenance theirs had head gasket problems. Their independent mechanic did it relatively cheaply compared to your dealer charge.

dieselone

The Chevy Silverado just started making noise from the rear axle. It appears that the rear end needs to be rebuilt at an estimated cost of over $1,000.

I never had to have the rear end rebuilt in the Suburban I had, but after about 40k miles it always had an annoying hum over 45 mph. When I had the trans rebuilt by an independent shop, I asked the mechanic about the rear end noise. He told me it was a common problem and that it was over $1k to rebuild it and that was 6 or 7 years ago. Since it was just a humming noise, he told me to keep driving it. So I did and it never got worse in my case.

imidazol97

>Calling Dr. Phil!

Jerry Springer might be more appropriate.

imidazol97

>Since it was just a humming noise, he told me to keep driving it.

I tried a search on the junk yard index site. That only came up with one empty case for the 1500. Must be a popular item out of the trucks that end up in the yards. Too, I may have searched wrong: 1999 and up 1500 Silverado.

tlong

Wow. This is based on a 1994 or '95 Neon.

Calling Dr. Phil!

If people just forgot about shoddy products in 2-3 years, instead of in 1-2 decades, then there wouldn't be as much incentive to make a better product, would there?

And this is not a $10 or $100 item, either. When somebody invests the second largest purchase they'll probably ever make in a company's product, and the product or support is very poor -- well, it looks like a completely rational decision to me. Apparently you're not the same way. You certainly have a right to that. Perhaps that's why GM will always be good - if it isn't, in a year or two it can be forgotten!

uplanderguy

I know you're from California , but you're supporting someone who made the statement, "May Chrysler execs rot in hell?".

Wow. Is there anything left to say?

fintail

Oh, there are some GM execs who deserve a similar stay in the same place. And I am saying that without ever having owned a GM car :shades:

stever

GM says it's first to reach 1 million vehicles at 30 mpg highway (Detroit News)

lemko

My best friend had a 1980 Chevrolet Citation that went 195K+ miles. It lasted him from high school through college through graduate school and into the first year of his marriage. He's still a loyal Chevrolet buyer though he has moved up to a Corvette and a Yukon Denali.

lemko

My maternal grandfather was definitely a Chevy man with a few other makes mixed in. In succession, his cars were:

1941 Chevrolet Master Deluxe
1947 Hudson Commodore 8
1953 Plymouth Cambridge
1961 Plymouth Valiant
1964 Chevrolet Biscayne
1967 Chevrolet Bel Air
1974 Chevrolet Impala
1980 Chevrolet Impala
1989 Chevrolet Caprice Classic Brougham LS.

My paternal grandfather had only one vehicle his whole life:

1937 Dodge truck

uplanderguy

Wow, I can think of a lot of people who deserve to 'rot in hell', but an auto executive isn't on my short list!

lemko

I've only had one Mopar my whole life and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. I had an excellent two-tone red and silver loaded 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue. I only sold it because my brother needed a car and made and awesome offer on it. he drove it for almost 15 years after I sold it to him.

lemko

This man reminds me of a guy who was burned in a bitter divorce and now thinks all women are evil.

uplanderguy

My daughter's PT Cruiser has been fine and it has 60K miles. Definitely not 'conventional wisdom'.

uplanderguy

I'm a simple guy, remember where I came from, etc., but I can't imagine spouting some of the stuff I hear here about a car!

lemko

Roger Smith most definitely belongs in such a low place in hell that Hitler and Stalin need a telescope to see how far below them he is.

bpizzuti

My parents had a 1980 Chevy Citation that went 195 miles. Literally.