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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Subaru generally only has one requirement. A Subaru logo. Beyond that, the Subaru fans (numerous in the Northeast) come a-runnin. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Typical directions in New England:

    Drive 3 blocks, make a right at the Subaru dealer
    Then drive down and make a left at the 3rd Subaru dealer
    Then make a right at the 2nd Subaru dealer
    When you reach the 3rd Subaru dealer, go left and you're there

    :D
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    How can you sustain a franchise selling about 1 car a day?

    Seriously.


    I think you now also know why most D3 dealers are also foreign make dealers. ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Don't chains tend to stretch out and throw the car way out of tune, so you at least get some warning before it fails totally?

    My FIL drove 3 Dodge Ram vans consecutively from the late 70's through the early 90's. I think the model years were '77, '84, and '87. All were powered by 318s and all of them needed a timing chain replacement around 100k or so. Two gave him a warning prior to failing, but one failed at 110k while he was towing his bass boat to a fishing tournament out in the middle of nowhere.

    Seems on some engines timing gears caused lots of problems too.

    I've had several cars with timing belts. I had one fail, but that was on an '86 Escort and the ford 1.9 was not an interference engine so it wasn't a big deal. Actually it was the water pump which ran off the timing belt that seized and took out the timing belt. Stupid me didn't changed the water pump (which is recommended) when I changed the original belt myself.

    As long as you change the timing belt at the recommended intervals you should never have a problem. Same with serpentine belts. Break one of those and you're just as stranded. Though you don't have to worry about bent valves;)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited December 2012
    The dealership was successful BEFORE he opened this new store

    Was it? I'd like to see sales before/after the renovation, to see what impact it had.


    According to the story, the dealership was on track to sell 1800 cars this year. The dealer's website calls it their brand new 70K sq ft dealership. They have 1000 cars in stock. It was a successful dealership before opening the hunting lodge.

    Clearly you can't turn down a quarter million dollar quarterly bonus, though, not when you sell about one car a day!

    Dealerships that sell 1 car a day don't qualify for bonuses of $1 million a year. Dealerships that sell 5 cars a day do - which is what this place does.

    You're a Toyota lover

    Am I?


    Based on the way you defend them in some forums, that's the impression I get.

    Even Subaru will have a hard time convincing large franchises to give their stores a unique look, because they just don't do enough volume to justify the large investment in a franchise.

    If dealers want to earn their bonuses and keep their franchises, they will. But here in New England, that's not an issue. This seems to be the look that all the Subie dealers in the Boston area are doing:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    As long as you change the timing belt at the recommended intervals you should never have a problem. Same with serpentine belts. Break one of those and you're just as stranded. Though you don't have to worry about bent valves;)

    I completely agree.

    IIRC, certain 351 CID engines in Fords in the 70-80's time frame were known for timing chain issues, too, but its been a long time, so I might be remembering incorrectly.

    Here's a video of one...

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=WwXkDfFyC5g&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWwXkDfFyC5- g
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Funny, when Ford and Nissan did the joint venture to build minivans, it was Ford that insisted the engines be changed to make them non-interference so there wouldn't be any damage when the belt broke.

    I'm at 182k on the original timing belt in my Quest. The recommended interval is 105k.

    This is kind of funny - why wouldn't anyone want to bail from HP at this point? Even if it is to GM. :shades:

    HP accuses IT leaders of orchestrating 'mass departure' to GM (Detroit Free Press)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    From your link...

    GM announced earlier this year that it would hire 500 employees to staff a new software technology operation in Austin. It was not immediately clear whether Hansen and MacKenzie are working for that specific operation.

    GM announced in October that it would hire 3,000 HP employees who previously performed information technology work for the automaker as part of GM's plan to bring 90% of its IT work in-house from outside contractors. GM Chief Information Officer Randy Mott, who previously held the same position with HP, has been frustrated by the automaker's outdated IT systems since joining the company in February and wants the former HP workers to help streamline those systems.

    HP, meanwhile, is cutting 29,000 jobs by October 2014 as it struggles with slower demand for printers, services and data-center equipment.


    Yet, HP found it surprising that 18 employees left to go to GM?

    Really?
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I'm at 182k on the original timing belt in my Quest. The recommended interval is 105k.

    I am impressed. I don't think I've ever known anyone to get that many miles on a timing belt... You must be living "right"!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My sister just went 150k on the one on her Forester. And it's an interference engine. :blush: One guy on another forum went 300k on his minivan.

    If I commuted on the freeway with a bunch of big honking Silverados and Tahoes tailgating me, I'd change it. :shades:
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I get a kick out of this recent branding the dealers bandwagon a lot of the car manufacturer's are on. Make 'em all look alike just like fast food chains. But even McDonald's allows their franchisee's to make modifications based on local market eccentricities. And remember, it was often franchisee's thinking differently that brought them some of their biggest success stories like the Big Mac. Now we've got a bunch of blue and white look alike Chrysler, Chevy, Ford and Honda dealerships and red and white look alike Dodge Ram, GMC and Toyota dealerships. While I think Chevy and the others can do this legally, I have to wonder if it is really more about booting dealerships and downsizing the number of them. Because honestly, while the dealership brand sign is important, the actual look of the physical building isn't that big of a deal unless it's a run down dump.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    Your analysis certainly makes sense, but I suspect somewhere deep inside these organizations there are a few folks on a power trip.

    One would think a little personalization of an individual dealership, especially one that was doing well in sales, would be encouraged. After all, the is a diverse country, and appealing to the local market's interests can be the difference between success and failure.

    But, I've seen it happen before.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited December 2012
    I'll list the Chevy first so some don't feel bad. Knowing 30% go to leases at GM, I wonder why this is happening to GM....again and again? Why aren't incentives working? When can GM claim they are winning in the market IN REALITY?

    BTW, current market for MS category is 19% of the US market, I believe. Can someone list what % GM holds? Too much "complex thinking" for my OCB-mind! ;) Go Mazda!

    Malibu - 199,321......2011 Malibu Sales = 204,808
    Sonata - 209,779.....2011 Sonata Sales = 225,961
    Optima - 140,391.....2011 Optima Sales = 84,590
    Altima - 278,968......2011 Altima Sales = 268,981
    Camry - 373,479......2011 Camry Sales = 308,510
    Accord - 302,444......2011 Accord Sales = 235,625
    Fusion - 221,980......2011 Fusion Sales = 248,067

    What Unintended Acceleration? More like Unintended Sales Deceleration for the good ole' 'Bu!

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Well to make somewhat of amends with uplander;) My dad's 09 Accord is turning into a train wreck.

    Honda's VCM related oil consumption issue is rearing it's ugly ahead again on my dad's accord. I talked to him last night and he told me it started missing again and the CE and low oil pressure light came on. Took it to the dealer and after 3k miles since his last oil change it basically didn't have any oil. They switched him over to synthetic oil and sent him on his way. He said it's running fine now, but seems oil consumption is a problem.

    He's got 94k miles on it and I told him to get rid of it before his already significantly repaired engine fails again and that Honda may not be so generous next time around. Plus considering my dad is not mechanically inclined, he just drives his car. I told him to check the oil weekly and keep a log to show his dealer at his next oil change to see their response.

    I looked online and this seems to be a wide spread problem, particularly with v6 accords. From what I've read, the Accord appears to have more VCM oil related issues vs VCM v6's in the Ody or other Honda SUVs. Apparently the more the engine runs in cylinder deactivation mode, the more likely there will be an issue, particularly with cylinder #3.

    Anyway, I know this isn't GM related, but just wanted to post something negative regarding a non-GM product;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Everyone loves to criticize Toyota, so I often play Devil's Advocate. Call me the fact checker, if you will. I share news both good and bad. Read back and I bet I share the most posts with a source, probably by far.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I still would like to see the before/after numbers to see what impact the renovations had.

    I guess what bothers me is how much control Chevy wants when their cars give the average dealer has so few sales. If you own a franchise with 2 large brands and both demand a certain look, the franchise owner will go with the brand producing more volume for them.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited December 2012
    From your numbers, it looks like Sonata and Fusion decreased more than did Malibu. I was surprised to see that. Both the Fusion and Malibu were new in the 2012 calendar year. Not sure when Ford quit building 2012-model Fusions, but I know 2013-model Malibus first started showing up in Feb. or March I believe, and were only the hybrid version 'til late August when I first saw non-hybrid versions. As has been noted a zillion times here, the hybrid version was expensive and largely made in China...a total turnoff to me.

    Speaking of '11 Malibus, we got ours back from the body shop late yesterday, all cleaned up and even tires blacked. We like it better now than ever. Nothing wrong with the Jetta, it's just that the Malibu looks more luxurious in and out to our eyes--and that's OK, as I'm sure the Jetta was a less-expensive car.

    It just looked so generic IMHO. It also had traces of one 'old Beetle' trait I recall--when one shut the doors, it had a metallic echo sound (implying not much insulation in the doors). Not nearly as dramatic, but reminiscent of closing a hood on an old Beetle.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At the auto show VW had a base Jetta and the previous gen TDI wagon side by side. The latter had fabric wrapped pillars, padded ceilings, soft touch plastics everywhere, leather on the steering wheel, and more. The whole ambience was premium.

    The new Jetta sedan had none of those things. The steering wheel felt particularly cheap and plasticky. The high end models had a few minor improvements but overall still notably a step down from the outgoing one.

    Of course they got prices down, but you get what you pay for.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Exactly, its the new decontented=cheap Jetta. But sales are up. Just hope they dont start making el cheapo Audis.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'm not particularly happy with what WV has done with the Jetta, but what do I know, sales have increased a bunch.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited December 2012
    Since I had one for a rental, I have to wonder if their sales increases are partly due to increased rental fleet sales. With a price decrease, that seems logical.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My BIL has the 2012 diesel/MT and he is enjoying both the performance/efficiency. He moved from a Sentra to the Jetta since he drives 120 miles/day, he needs the efficiency.

    I actually like the car a little better than the Chevy Cruze, aesthetically, which is basically the same size as the Jetta. I am sure the diesel will require more maintenance, however, partially off-setting the gains in efficiency. But mid-high 40's mpg is quite achievable on the hwy in the Jetta.

    Regards,
    OW
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Since I had one for a rental, I have to wonder if their sales increases are partly due to increased rental fleet sales. With a price decrease, that seems logical.

    I don't know; I tend to prefer the older-style VWs, as I prefer smaller but more premium. Somehow the mainstream US buyer was less about that and more about size at a low price. So that seems to sell better even though the cars are not nearly as nice.

    I remember riding in an early'00s Passat wagon to work from the Audi dealer and that wagon was almost BMW or MB-esque in its interior, with supple cream colored leather.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I remember riding in an early'00s Passat wagon to work from the Audi dealer and that wagon was almost BMW or MB-esque in its interior, with supple cream colored leather.

    Me too. The '00 Passat GLX my uncle had was very nice.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    One of my friends used to have a "2001.5" Passat sedan. I rode in it a couple of times. Really nice car. IMO, it was about what a compact car should be...good legroom up front, a back seat that, while not limousine-like, is still adequate. Too narrow inside for 3 across seating, but what a truly comfy 4-seater should be.

    And, the interior definitely seemed high-quality. He traded it for a newer, but still used, and still of that generation, Passat wagon, when he got a dog.

    I think the 2001.5 made it to around 150,000 miles and was still running well. At one point, he had some persistent problem that the dealer took about 3 months to diagnose, where once in a blue moon, it would refuse to start. Turned out to be the neutral safety switch or something like that. But other than that, it was a good car.

    I think my eyesight is starting to go though...I swear the instrumentation in that car was lit up in purple, but I've had people tell me it's supposed to be blue!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited December 2012
    VW is pretty big in rentals right now. Lots of Jetta and Passat rentals out there. Using it to pump up the numbers no doubt, just like has been done by GM and Toyota.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    VW is pretty big in rentals right now. Lots of Jetta and Passat rentals out there. Using it to pump up the numbers no doubt, just like has been done by GM and Toyota.

    Agreed. These are the top 3 competing for the highest sales. VW has horrible quality cred and GM and Toyota have had their issues as well. Bottom line is their profit margin and GM is following in that respect at the moment.

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But if it wasn't for the Korean government, Hyunkia might be bleeding red ink.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    But if it wasn't for the Korean government, Hyunkia might be bleeding red ink.

    Hmmm...

    That sounds oddly familiar....
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Nah, GM would have been a cadaver. Of course, Hyunkia would have preceded them in death by a good decade!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM was a cadaver....now the walking dead? :blush:

    Anyway, why is GM's profit lagging? Why do they contine making the same mistakes? Because of HyunKia? Honda? Toyota? Nissan? Ford? UAW? Non-loyal customers? Second rate products?

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Nice try, GM. Over-priced and late, as always. :)

    Test Drive: Malibu turbo has features done right

    Not bad but class-leading? Let the customers speak.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited December 2012
    James R. Healey, "Mr. Cupholder".

    He was one of the first writers I saw be lukewarm on the '08 Malibu when introduced.

    My coworker and I used to always laugh that number of cupholders was always pretty important in his articles in USA Today.

    I actually wrote him about his review of the '08 Malibu and mentioned that we called him "Mr. Cupholder", and he responded thoughtfully, appreciated some of the things I pointed out (at least he said so), and chuckled at the nickname.

    The pic in his article is one of the most flattering of the new Malibu I've seen, I think.

    Built in Kansas, not Mexico--you gotta like that.

    U.S.-built, 40K more powertrain warranty than Ford--those are a couple things that are important to some people, though virtually no one on this board. Sometimes things like that, and styling and history with your hometown dealer--and purchase price available--mean more to people than 'class leading', whatever precisely that means. As I said in a previous post, I was surprised to see Focus and Sonata sales down more in 2012 from 2011, than Malibu's.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Anyway, why is GM's profit lagging? Why do they contine making the same mistakes? Because of HyunKia? Honda? Toyota? Nissan? Ford? UAW? Non-loyal customers? Second rate products?

    Because so far they haven't actually had to suffer all that much for the mistakes they made. And they don't expect to have to.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My coworker and I used to always laugh that number of cupholders was always pretty important in his articles in USA Today.

    So THAT's why the Dodge Ram won truck of the year! My single cab pickup, which can really only hold two people in comfort (3 across puts the center passenger into a fetal position) has SEVEN cupholders! :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, you need a cupholder for the coffee. Then you need a cupholder for the iced tea. Plus a cupholder to put your cellphone in, and one more for change, and/or one to hold the beer. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > coffee. Then you need a cupholder for the iced tea. Plus a cupholder to put your cellphone in, and one more for change, and/or one to hold the beer.

    One for the cigarettes and lighter...

    In that cab, if you don't find one of the cupholders fits your position style while driving, you're in trouble.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    In that cab, if you don't find one of the cupholders fits your position style while driving, you're in trouble.

    Annoyingly though, one of the cupholders is a unit that pulls out and drops down in the center. It makes an already compromised center seating position more useless than the back seat of a 2013 Malibu! :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    That helps explain it. I was trying to picture where all te cupholders would be located. There's only so much real estate in the cab.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    There's two in the driver's side door, three in the center pull down spot, and two in the passenger side door. There are two different sizes in each door, I guess so whether you need to hold a 12-oz or a Forty, the ever capable Ram will ensure that your thirst is quenched.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    As I said in a previous post, I was surprised to see Focus and Sonata sales down more in 2012 from 2011, than Malibu's.

    I think that's inaccurate. From what I've seen the Focus is up 38% so far this year, the Sonata is basically even.

    http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#autosalesC

    You'd think if warranty was such an important factor in buying a vehicle, GM would have more in the top 20 list. GM 3, Ford 5.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    edited December 2012
    I was relying on circlew's numbers. Too bad the Malibu isn't on that chart. The Fusion is the biggest drop by far on the chart, from Nov. '11 to Nov. 12. Wonder what's up with that? The car has been out, what, about four months? I wonder if they're feeling a little fallout about all the Ford recalls of late.

    Well, concerning warranty, obviously, not everybody values everything the same way. I'm not sure how 'out there' that info is, either. If I were GM, I'd be blaring that fact in every commercial. But, I'm not seeing it. The Optima is doing well, but I won't buy a car with a grille at the top of the front fender and a chrome strip on the roof, but hey, that's me.

    As I've said, I'd have bought a new '63 or '64 Studebaker, so what do I know.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But if it wasn't for the Korean government, Hyunkia might be bleeding red ink.

    The opposite is true, the Korean government made a fortune off Hyundai stock. One of the best investments in history.

    Look at the stock price before replying.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    How many years between the investment and today's stock price?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But they have also put a fortune into them directly and indirectly. This big issue I have is why do Americans come down big on gov bailout of GM, but look the other way when Asian and European govs continue to subsidize their auto industry and market? I know one poster said because it doesn't come out of his wallet. But that forgets the impact on the US industrial base and the resulting lowering of our standard of living. I understand transplants, but I also know there still are a number of imported vehicles, particularly from European firms. I also understand how foreign gov support for their auto industry helps their cash flow and their ability to establish transplants here. Just seems like a BIG double standard on these boards to me.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    My opinion and nothing more, but I agree with berri on this one. To 'punish' GM (so to speak) for this, and buying a new HyunKia, as an example, instead, is kind of elementary-school like. I understand liking one car better than another, but....sheesh.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Well, one part of it may be that they are subsidizing GOOD cars while we're subsidizing BAD ones.

    I'm sure opinions vary on that of course. Then again "we" are also subsidizing some Japanese makes, any time one of them gets a sweet tax deal to move to a particular state. Anyone offering those to GM lately?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,862
    Aren't you a guy who likes CR? Some of the quality ratings of Hyundais of the past few years were below that of GM products, per the issue that was on newsstands last month, anyway. Ah, perception.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I think CR has a valid viewpoint, yes, not that I necessarily agree with their reviews. I'm an enthusiast. They aren't. More people look at cars from their perspective than mine.

    And I was referring primarily to the Japanese manufacturers, though people seem to like Hyundais more than the domestics as well in some cases.

    And I'd still love to know if anyone's offering GM any sweet tax deals to come set up a factory in their state. Anyone besides China anyway. ;)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Because so far they haven't actually had to suffer all that much for the mistakes they made. And they don't expect to have to.

    ..and because of that rich uncle who just LOVES them.
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