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SRX..3.0L....300
RX....3.5L.....270
MDX.3.7L.....300
X3....3.0L.....260
You're charting this gen's engines as comparison. 2010's x3 is expected to use the upgraded turbo 3.0l making about 310 hp, and unless I'm mistaken next gen's 2010 RX also expected to use new 3.5l - 300 hp engine.
I still agree the 3.0 doesn't trail competitions', but calling it a lead in the hp game is so off.
Now they settle for FWD instead of RWD, cost cutting, due to the use ot Theta platform rwd is impossible. The use of lower class Theta platform kinda baffles me, but financially understandable.
Not sure FWD will lure enough buyers as most people in this segment expects either AWD or RWD. A gamble, indeed.
There are still a few hints of 2010 Equinox, and the front doors are definitely the same, but other parts seem SRX exclusive.
Engine choice not class leading, but at least up to standard.
Looks: better than before.
SRX..3.0L....300
RX....3.5L.....270
MDX.3.7L.....300
X3....3.0L.....260
I still agree the 3.0 doesn't trail competitions', but calling it a lead in the hp game is so off.
Has the most efficient engine (displacement vs. HP) at both ends of the competition.
What I said is above. I do not see how it is "so off". 2.8L/260 hp vs a 3.0L/260hp at the lower end and 3.0L/300hp vs. 3.7L/300hp at the top end.
As a side point how much power does a mid size CUV need in this new world order of greenness? It would be super easy to drop in a 3.2L turbo and get well over 300hp. Heck our huge Traverse with 281 hp goes pretty darn good.
I also noticed that the Future GM vehicles are being compared to the Current competition models.
If an SRX and the BMW X3 are within 10% cost of each other comparably equipped, the BMW is my choice. Why? I know BMW will be in business in 2011 and thus I'll have a warranty, they have a nice European Delivery discount and holiday, and they have 4 years total maintenance including wear-items.
Wrong, they are different.
Also SRX is on a Theta premium platform. What the hell that means I do not know! Will have to wait til Sunday.
# December deliveries up 30 percent compared with October and up 43 percent compared with November
# Market share in December expected around 24 percent, up about 4 ppts compared with November, reflecting renewed APR rate support through GMAC
# Second half 2008 share up nearly 2 ppts compared with first half
# 2008 market share position anticipated to hold steady at just above 22 percent
down 31 percent compared with a year ago.
Chevrolet Malibu continued its solid performance with total sales up 43 percent compared with last December. For 2008, Malibu sales of more than 178,000 vehicles were up 39 percent, making it the highest percentage gainer in the top 20 vehicles sold in America with a volume increase compared with 2007.
GM inventories dropped compared with a year ago. In December, only about 872,000 vehicles were in stock, down about 36,000 vehicles (or 4 percent) compared with last year. There were about 397,000 cars and 475,000 trucks (including crossovers) in inventory at the end of December.
"We are building more vehicles than ever that provide great value and Americans enjoy owning. That is why, for the year, we are seeing our market share holding steady at just above 22 percent. That's 5 percentage points more and 760,000 vehicles more than our nearest competitor.
Ford Motor Co. posted a 32% drop in U.S. light-vehicle sales for December while Toyota Motor Co. reported a 37% fall and Honda Motor Co. had a 35% decline, closing out the auto industry's worst year in more than 15 years.
2010 SRX 3.0l - 300hp
2010 X5 3.0l turbo - est. 310hp
2010 RX 3.5l - est. 290-300hp
2009(current) FX 3.5l - 303hp
2009(current) Touareg 3.6l - 280hp
Those are SRX's toughest competitors (plus MB ML350), and it seems like only T-reg trails the HP game.
Plus, I can't imagine 300hp running on front drive (expect crazy torque steer), unless the 3.0 is restricted to AWD only.
Has the most efficient engine (displacement vs. HP) at both ends of the competition.
What I said is above.
Not really, you said: "Seems to me that the SRX leads the competition in the HP department. Has the most efficient engine (displacement vs. HP) at both ends of the competition" (post 3081)
Btw, when they all hit showrooms the BMW will have the best balance, fuel economy aside.
Wow, I guess I should wordsmith my comments a bit better. Guess I should have wrote "with" instead of ". Has the"
So I apologize for mistyping my point. I will try again.
Has the most efficient engine (displacement vs. HP) at both ends of the competition.
And the RX 350 data has been out. "2010 RX 3.5l - est. 290-300hp"
The entry-level 2010 RX 350 is powered by the 3.5-liter V6 engine which produces an output of 275HP and is mated to an electrically controlled, sequential-shift six-speed transmission.
I did only list the vehicles that I found that the media compared with the new SRX. I think they did not count the X5 since it starts at almost $50k (with a 260hp powertrain) while the SRX will start around $36K.
I think the EX35 3.5L/297hp at $35k would be a closer competitor rather than the FX35 at $43k.
"We are building more vehicles than ever that provide great value and Americans enjoy owning. That is why, for the year, we are seeing our market share holding steady at just above 22 percent. That's 5 percentage points more and 760,000 vehicles more than our nearest competitor.
Of course it makes sense. Have you seen how many incentives, rebates and red-tag events GM pulled this year?
Second part, the numbers are perhaps accurate (perhaps as I cant find any source yet), but there's too much propaganda in the statements IMO.... oh well, it's all too common nowadays.
The entry-level 2010 RX 350 is powered by the 3.5-liter V6 engine which produces an output of 275HP and is mated to an electrically controlled, sequential-shift six-speed transmission.
I see, my mistake.
It's a bad position for Toyota to have let itself get into, being forced by the General to play catch-up on fuel economy.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Completely agree. I wanted the 3.2 turbo instead of the stupid V8 on the current one but investment shot it down.
LaCrosse engines are going to be 3.0L 250 hp and 3.6L 290hp which should be plenty for a mid sized vehicle with the AWD version for now. But hopefully an AWD Super will show up with a turbo!!
The ES currently has a 3.5L 270hp. With the facelift will it get an upgraded engine? Perhaps the 303hp version? The V6 Camry is also 3.5L except 268 hp.
GM light-vehicle sales in 2008 totaled 2.95 million units, down 23% from 2007.
Toyota posted a U.S. December sales drop of 36.7% to 141,949 units from 224,399. Car sales slid 34.8% to 79,259 while truck sales slumped 39% to 62,690.
Toyota U.S. sales in all of 2008 totaled 2.22 million, down from 2.62 million vehicles in 2007. down 16% for the year
Honda reported a 34.7% decline to 86,085 cars and trucks, with its top-selling Accord sedan off by 28.5% to 22,348 units. Overall, truck sales slipped 40% to 35,167 units while car sales fell 30.4% to 50,918. For the year, Honda's sales dropped 8.2% to 1,428,765 cars and trucks.
Nissan Motors handed in a retreat of 30.7% to 62,102 vehicles from 89,555 units in December 2007. Car sales slid 26.8% to 38,507 units while trucks sales declined 36.1% to 23,595 units.
Nissan U.S. sales in 2008 fell 10.9% to 951,350 vehicles from 1.07 million in 2007.
For 2008, Ford's sales fell 21% to 1.98 million vehicles
Chrysler said its monthly sales sank to 89,813 amid a 63% cut in fleet sales. Total sales for the year dropped 30% to 1.45 million vehicles
Regards,
OW
Industry Total: 13,244,018 down 18%
Any automaker whose sales dropped less than 18% has actually gained market share.
1- GM: 2,954,819, down 23%
2- Toyota: 2,217,660, down 15%
3- Ford: 1,980,966, down 21%
4- Chrysler: 1,453,122, down 30%
5- Honda: 1,428,765, down 8%
6- Nissan: 951,350, down 11%
7- Huyndai: 401,742, down 14%
8- Volkswagen: 314,318, down 5%
9- BMW: 303,568, down 10%
10- Kia: 273,397 down 11%
11- Mazda: 263,949, down 11%
12- Daimler: 249,750, down 1.5%
13- Subaru: 187,699 up 0.3%
14- Mitsubishi: 92,257 down 25%
Despite the fact that everyone has suffered horrible drop in sales, they all gained market share, except the big three and Mitsubishi.
Market Share:
Big Three: 6,388,907, 48.2% Market Share.
Asian: 5,912,787, 44.6% Market Share.
European: 1,036,794, 7.8% Market Share
The big three sold less than 50% for the first time in history, while Asians (Japanese and Koreans) are on their way to outsell the Domestics.
Pricing will not be out for awhile but it is rumored to start at $35k or so.
One difference for MB:
Daimler shows down 11.2% according to WSJ
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
RX starts at 39K, MDX/X3 at $40k so the $35k rumor above may be low.
One thing that has sorta been dropped on these forums. It is all about gas mileage right now. There are questions on why they dropped a little 2.8 turbo into it instead of the 303 hp 3.6L which would also drop in. CAFE is here to stay.
The year the automotive industry would like to forget is memorable for slumping sales, spikes in gas prices and a shift in consumer tastes to cars and smaller vehicles with growing interest in hybrids and electric vehicles.
Toyota was the year's best-selling brand for the first time, ending the traditional race between Ford and Chevrolet.
And 2008 saw wild fluctuations between car and truck sales. The year began and ended with trucks cornering around 52 percent of the U.S. market; in between, that share dipped as low as 43.1 percent, but cars prevailed overall.
It took trucks almost a century to outsell cars, with pickups, minivans and SUVs finally achieving that feat in 2000, said George Pipas, U.S. sales analysis manager for Ford Motor Co. "Now seven years later, passenger cars have outsold light trucks."
Pipas doesn't think it's a trend that will reverse itself again anytime soon.
Some things stayed the same. The Ford F-Series remains the best-selling truck for the 32nd year and the best-selling vehicle for the 27th consecutive year, with 515,513 units sold.
Chart shows trucks slightly outselling cars slightly Jan/Feb
and then cars really outselling trucks April May June
and then even March, Aug, Sep, Oct
and then cars slightly outselling trucks Nov, Dec.
Looks like we will not be getting $1 gas this year:(
True, it's something that's missing in the current SRX: value. It seemed like a decent value at first, then you realize that to get what most competitors offer as standard you's have to settle for thousands of $$$ worth of options. Add them up, and the price soars to the point it reaches the German's territory.
And of course, the outgoing SRX doesn't have what it takes to challenge the Germans (true luxury) and the Japanese (value). May the next gen fare better...
So true. Power is one thing, but image and luxury appointments are to be seriously considered as well. There's no point making a luxury SUV that has more power than competitors but fail at everything else. Fuel economy? Yes some will consider, but not that many. Remember that the buyers in this class will most likely be the ones surviving the economic turmoil.
In the end SRX needs the right balance of all the above to actually sell. The current SRX tanks so deeply IMO because it has performance and decent mileage, but loses out in comfort, luxury, image, value, and brand's customer service.
I think the EX35 3.5L/297hp at $35k would be a closer competitor rather than the FX35 at $43k.
Like I said, don't push the "value" card too much. Buyers in this class wants more than that. Also please remember that the SRX was created with the FX, X5 and other midsizers as the target.
Also, again, like I said, it's not fair to compare upcoming models with outgoing models that have been around for years now.
Still, I'm beginning to see some potential blunders here:
1) I'm a bit confused as in how a midsize SRX is possible being built on a compact crossover platform. Unless that's what the term "Theta Premium" is mainly about, extending.
2) The choice to go the FWD route is an extreme gamble. Most buyers expect RWD from what I see, even the class' bottom-feeder GrandCherokee knows this.
3) Based on the platform I expect the upcoming SRX to be smaller than the outgoing model. Whether downsizing is a good idea or not I dont know, but this will definitely pose a challenge for adding a 3rd row, which in current gen's car has barely enough room.
4)GM has yet to release any pics on the interior, I guess it'll have to wait until the car shows up at auto expos.
5) GM hasn't done much in the customer service department, another crucial part in the luxury class.
People can check the rankings all they want, but when in reality GM neglect to manage customer service in all it's dealerships, I consider that as failure (and yes that includes BMW's crap for service). BMW ranks good in service, but in reality most the customers know they suck at it. No rankings can beat reality.
Current SRX's huge mistake is overpricing, the $35k base price sounds nice, but match up the equipment and options with competitors and price soars. I hope the upcoming model gets more reasonable.
I seriously hope GM will do something about the crappy interior. I'm sick of hearing GM's excuse, remember " We have addressed complaints about materials that are actually of premium quality but don't look and feel like one..." from GM's press release on the '08 CTS? Wow sure, we're all so dumb we can't tell the difference between Tupperware plastic and Nappa leather. GM actually expected us to believe that the previous gen CTS had premium materials all over, LMAO :P
Whatever happened to the BRX program? That sounds more appropriate for a Theta platform.
link title
The D3 can not go on like this for much longer....oh, wait a minute...yes, we gave them the cash for this purpose. Never mind!
Regards,
OW
So 22 percent market share looks good if you have no knowledge of the recent history of GM but in reality demonstrates how far GM has fallen in the US car industry.
BTW, recent Motor Trend mentioned (alluded) that Rick Wagoner is on his way out. He was not included on their most influential list after being number one two years ago. Any one hear anything on his pending departure???
It also feeds the perception that the foreign makes are better. We (Americans) have been trained to believe that if something is cheaper, it's probably not as good as the more expensive product (I know this is debatable but allow me some latitude here to make my point). So people are now willing to pay more for a comparable Accord, Civic, Camry, etc. over a Fusion, Malibu, Impala, etc. It took years for this to develop and it will take years for the perception to change. Unfortunately GM and Chrylser only have months not years to survive.
The sad part is all indication of this dynamic was in place back in the mid-90s. The year the Accord surpassed the Taurus as the most popular car marked the beginning of the end. Unfortunately Wagoner and his gang were too blinded by the profits they wer making on pickups and SUVs to notice. The 2008 Malibu and CTS are very nice vehicles but it's about a decade too late.
The foreign brands can reap that benefit you mentioned because they earned it. We are experienceing the effects of what the D3 have earned.
The market share of GM needs to be no more than 15% and the incentives cut by 25% as the pricing model changes on all GM nameplates. It's the only way.
It'll be interesting to see the final plan.
Regards,
OW
GM is number 4 just under Lexus virtually tied with MB and a couple ahead of BMW and way ahead of Acura.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008250
Condos on the Ocean in Fla are renting for 1200 a month with landlords making 2400 mortgage payments. Strategy: live to fight another day.
Look at all the retailers who have one down xmas sales year and have no cushion established and going out of business now. Stupidity.
Should I not be happy with dealers advertising Malibu and Impala at $14,900? I am happy about it. In a way, I get my $134 share (one taxpayer's worth) of the auto bailout back if I buy one. I could live with the warranty risk for $5k up front.
The fact that Honda's market share is rising does not make me happy. Reason: jobs, jobs, jobs.
If an Accord is $5k more than a Malibu, I should join the masses and buy the Accord and then complain about the bailout (a whopping $134 to me) and wonder why there are no good technical jobs in the Midwest?
You should buy the car that you feel offers the best value for your money. If that's the Malibu, so be it, but many others have chosen the Accord or Camry (or are waiting for the 2010 Fusion, heh).
If more people felt the Malibu was better for them and GM was making money on each sale, then GM would be OK. Thing is, GM loses money at the price you mentioned, which is not good business practice. If the consumer is unwilling to buy a GM vehicle at a price that generates a profit for GM, then GM has to either cut costs, or make a better product people are willing to pay more for, so they an stay in business. Right now they've done neither effectively, so instead of being rewarded with our money, they managed to swing a bailout...and got rewarded with our money anyway. So absolutely you should complain. Heck, everyone who HAS bought their products are suddenly finding themselves paying more for it after the fact, is that right?
That is like buying friends. Anyone can get customers by giving the product away. GM is trying to survive. I see GM as a giant beached whale. Too big for anyone to push back into the water without killing it. If you have never seen a beached whale it is a sad agonizing slow death.
****
Yet where are those jobs being made? Most likely in one of the new U.S. plants they want to build or if one of the D3 fails, a plant that they will take over.
Meanwhile GM is moving more and more stuff outside of the U.S. Don't confuse "Made in America" with "Made in the U.S.A." when they start pimping their cars in the ads. Because, thanks to NAFTA, If it's made in Mexico, the U.S.A., or Canada, it counts as 100% domestic and "Made in America".
Unfortunately these guys are weasels. You have to track where the money is going and exactly where the cars are made. If that first VIN number isn't a 1, you're not helping the domestic workers or economy.
That is correct. Looking at the door tag on my Sequoia, it says Made In USA. I believe it has as much US content as most domestics sold in the US. It was built by real workers in a factory in Indiana. Gauging by the way it was put together, they were happier workers than the Indiana UAW workers that built my 2005 GMC PU Truck. Made by Union workers used to carry a sense of pride with it. Does not seem to be that way anymore.
Yes, yes. I did say this, check the ratings and it'll say the ranking's good for Cadillac. However the fact remains that many people still complain. Like I said even BMW, who end up pretty good up the rankings, is notorious for the poor service by luxury standards. Almost everybody who's a BMW customer knows this. The same with Cadillac, good up the ranks but still suck in reality.
Worse yet, BMW at least already got 2 extra bullets: superior products and world class image. Cadillac has one small bullet: 1 superior product, CTS, and a screwed up image. To keep up at least GM needs to focus more on giving red carpet treatment a luxury marque should have, at as many dealerships as it can, all if possible. The homework's not done yet.
Besides, sales satisfaction doesn't translate to proper customer service, ownership experience is.
Up from how many percents respectively? Honda never offer much in incentive and GM is notorious for giving us some of the heartiest portions of discounts. from what I see Honda can add incentive another 30, maybe 40% and it still won't be as large as GM's.
The fact that Honda's market share is rising does not make me happy. Reason: jobs, jobs, jobs.
Lots of Hondas are built in US now, try Ohio. Meanwile more and more GM cars are built overseas, try Brazil, Mexico, and China. Remember, dealers and GM officials say "made in America" not "made in the USA".
In a way, I get my $134 share (one taxpayer's worth) of the auto bailout back if I buy one. I could live with the warranty risk for $5k up front.
Yeah, do that and when congress ask for the bailout money back GM will say "it has been returned to the taxpayers in the form of GM discount" :P
Feel free to live with the 5k up front, but I hope you won;t cry like hell later when the resale value plummets. I think for the long term, not just up front.
Besides, sales satisfaction doesn't translate to proper customer service, ownership experience is
In looking for data I came across this chart. Not tied to the service department but something to look at.
Cadillac came in 6th out of 37. Room for improvement.
What is interesting is that Chevrolet and Toyota are virtually tied.
http://www.thescoop-cg.com/wp-content/uploads/jd-power-apeal.pdf
Absolutely, please post it here. I certainly could not find anything on the net.
It'd be much easier if you have access to CCTV (China Central TV). I'll also try to find an online source, it may be easier to translate.
"Chevrolet production plant in Shenyang, Liaoning province is to become the most productive GM factory in China, capable of assembling and shipping 150,000 Cruzes worldwide every year. About 10% of production planned to be shipped to America. Production will start from 4th month (I think it means 2nd quarter) of 2009, according to GM partner SAIC"
A pretty small number, and I admit I don't know for sure whether America means USA or other American countries or both. I'll keep checking.
http://www.cctv.com/program/bizchina/20081120/104862.shtml
I'm not sure sales will reach 300k annually, but if Cruze sells really well it's possible GM prepares some from China to keep up (compared to the current Focus in the top 10, it should have no problem overtaking Focus' slot).
General Motors Corp. said it has enough government loans to cover its worst-case forecast for U.S. auto sales and won’t need more if the economy holds up.
Pledges from the U.S. Treasury for as much as $13.4 billion to help GM pay bills and $6 billion to prop up lender GMAC LLC will meet “our liquidity needs under the scenarios outlined in our December plan to Congress,” spokesman Greg Martin said yesterday.
In December, GM requested $18 billion in federal loans, saying that was what it needed to make it to 2010. That number factored in GM's 49 percent stake in its struggling financial unit, GMAC Financial.
But GMAC gained status as a bank holding company and secured $6 billion of its own federal funding. The U.S. Treasury Department gave GMAC $5 billion in exchange for preferred stock in the financing company and lent GM $1 billion to invest in GMAC.
"So in actuality," said the source familiar with GM's finances, the amount the government delivered "was substantially higher than the $18 billion GM asked for."