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No I've been watching the national news organizations coverage of the D3 and UAW going to Congress begging for money, because no one else would give them a loan. No one would buy any of their stock or corporate bonds if they issued it. Most corporations raise cash by offering stock and bonds. They do not go to Congress and get grilled for 2 days.
Now that they have the loan they are paying their bills.
Well isn't that great; we all thought they'd take the money and buy a few new jets.
They do seem to have a lot of award winning vehicles coming out.
They've had award winning vehicles before. So has Chrysler. These companies have and continue to lose $. That is what matters.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Fully expected this. They won't give anything unless GM is two breaths from death. They're hoping Obama will be more lenient. Let's hope GM manages to pull itself through. In 4 years GM will probably have 5-10% less market share and half as many UAW workers. The few that are left will cling to those benefits like flies on poop.
Why don't we reverse that and ask which of the models listed by bpizzuti are NOT crappy. If we define crappy as in the bottom third against competitors, let's just take a few of the listed models (the specifics):
Cobalt - unrefined, poor interior quality, poor reliability vs. Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Mazda 3, Focus.
G3 - see Cobalt
Aveo - unrefined, poor interior quality, poor reliability, poor handling vs. Fit, Versa, Yaris
G6 - unrefined, poor interior qualilty, poor reliability vs. Camry, Accord, Optima, Sonata, Fusion, Malibu
Aura - see G6 except somewhat better interior
so 33% unemployment would be your target for our economy if you were in Obama's position? That would leave crappy people out on the street?
Apples to oranges. How is that relevant? Crappy people have lower-paying jobs, in general (or they are unemployed). Not at all relevant to an AUTOMOBILE discussion.
In what category?
sales?
price?
warranty?
Specifics were asked for, otherwise you are doing exactly what I accused this site of constantly doing.
Feel free to offer a different or better suggestion to define "crappy", rather than using the bottom third. You wanted specifics, so the first order of business was defining the word "crappy". If there are nine models in a segment and a car is in the bottom three then crappy sounds like a good term.
You can read the reviews. The previous post listed some details for many of the models. Take the G6 from the supposedly sport division of GM. I rented one. It doesn't handle as well as an Accord, it is listed as having much worse than average reliability by Consumer Reports, its interior is an ugly sea of plastic. It will get you from point A to B but most vehicles in its class are better.
Another way to look at "crappy" is the resale value. That is an aggregate voting of all used car buyers on the value of a model to the public. Most of GMs vehicles have poor resale. That's the result of an aggregate perception of the brand, the vehicle, the performance, the desirability, the refinement, the reliability. Crappy vehicles have lousy resale value, and excellent vehicles have high residuals. It should be obvious. It's wonderful that there are people who will buy the lousier vehicles, as competition is good for the marketplace. :P :P :P
Chevy Caprice was a car of the year!
That's why I suggested an *upgraded* BLS!
If you look at the sum of U.S. sales of A4 + 3-series + 1-series + MB C-class + TSX + loaded Jettas you have quite a number of upscale small cars. PROFITABLE small cars.
Where were the GM strategists? Supposedly the D3 can't profitably make a small car - - well the cars above sell for $25K-$40K. So GM could have been known as the American car company that sells *premium* small cars! Instead we got the Cobalt and Saturn Ion! And here comes the Volt! Yet an analog to the cars above would take no new technologies other than GM's ability to make a very high quality, refined, and excellent-handling small car. And they've done the handling with the CTS, so they CAN do it. They just have not.
Another example of why I say Wagoner has no strategic vision.
Buicks GN and other turbo V6 models (86-87)......."hey you cant make something faster than the Vette"....killed those cars, and the Monte Carlo sold very well but if you wanted a V8.......the 305.
Pontaic Aztec.......do I need to say anything?
They seem to make decent trucks, and we all know they make big profits from them. Thankfully they called the new small trucks Colorado and Canyon, look like Nissans to me. Who was in charge of designing these? Why only four guages in a truck? Most people would use it as a car I know, but this is supposed to be a truck.
GM cars either look bland or from another planet. And why is onstar standard on all GM vehicles? I know alot of people would be out of work if they went bankrupt, I think the loan is only putting GM on life support.....and the pulse is fading......
Chevy
HHR: horrible materials (compared to even PT Cruiser), terrible handler
Cobalt: total crap compared to the likes of Civic and Mazda3 inside out.
Aveo: Hopelessly cramped inside compared to Fit or even Yaris (which is tiny already)
Impala: have you checked out the interior? 100% rental grade
Equinox: Poor quality and refinement
Colorado: hasnt been updated since the ice age
Trailblazer (and all the clones): need I say more?
SSR: what's the point?
Uplander: is it dead yet?
Pontiac
Solstice: trashy engine and tranny, poor performance
G3: same as Aveo
G6: slow, heavy on fuel, doesn't feel solid
G5: Cobalt ripoff = the same crap
Vibe: Matrix twin minus the build quality and interior for the same price
Aztek: behold, king of ugly and pointless :P
Saturn
Sky: just another Solstice ripoff
Aura: totally unrefined compared to Malibu
Astra: not bad but waayyy overpriced
Hummer
H2: horrible interior quality for the price
H3: terrible engine
Buick:
Lucerne: Fit-finish, nuff' said.
Cadillac:
XLR: horrific fit-finish and quality for the price
SRX: interior made of tupperware
STS: terrible interior and space for it's size, class and price
Escalade: good by regular standard, crap by luxo standard. The only reason it's "perceived as good": the hype, superficial "bling" (thanks to the celebs)
Those are the ones I find below par, others are so-so at best. If you ask LaCrosse, I say: just ok, not bad but nothing good either. Escalade you say? Compare it with Audi Q7, Range Rover, Lexus LX or MB GL550, and you'll see why.
Satisfied?
Even if a car is built in Canada it also supports thousands of jobs in the US, yes that's true but what about this one question noone seem to ask so far: instead of supporting thousands in US and thousands in Canada, why not build the whole thing in US to support even more jobs????? Sure financially its the best decision, but is this the kind of company you'd call patriotic, the kind of company you want to support? Yeah right.
If GM wants us to be patriotic and buy US made, GM needs to at the very least be patriotic as well and make it 100% US made, no excuse and propagandas.
For anyone who say: that's impossible, welcome to the real world, bud, where patriotism is meaningless in face of reality.
"But we should have no problem if the buyer takes his US given rights and buys cars that were made in the US. "
Well, I have the superior right given by US and most importantly god himself, it's called "Freedom of Choice" which allows me to buy whatever I wish.
Regards,
OW
Cadillac's sales unexpectedly went up, with Escalade (GM sell it there?) and CTS doing good, STS and BLS a disaster. Chrysler 300 meanwhile, remains the most popular entry level luxury car (yes, Cadillac is considered entry level there).
If not, get on the incentive line early!
Regards,
OW
There are just too many other better choices.
That includes all BOF SUV's GM makes. The CUV's need to prove themselves and not fall apart. We will see.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Nice synopsis.
Regards,
OW
Lucerne: Fit-finish, nuff' said"
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/USAToday/access/977231411.html?dids=977231411:977231- 411&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jan+27%2C+2006&author=James+R.+Healey&pub=USA+TODAY- &edition=&startpage=B.3&desc=Lucerne+trumps+those+annoying+Buick+prejudices
If you can get ahold of the whole article, (I can't get it all) he goes on to say that the fit and finish is better than the Avalon.
Maybe this is why the Avalon is DOA, and the Lucerne soldiers on.
Get over it Buick...snap it up or die.
At least this has some attempt at design in it...considering the evolution of past GM design iterations, this is eons ahead in 1 model year.
Regards,
OW
Shoot, that's how I feel about just about all Asian cars!
I still don't like that trademark grill, kind of ruins the look for me. But overall the car is really nice looking and kudos to GM for being a bit bolder. Hopefully the rest of the car is similarly excellent.
Regards,
OW
Web editors will be able to embedthe streams on their sites using the code available at least 24 hours before event start time in each video window.
General Motors 2009 NAIAS Streaming Video URLs
Sunday January 11, 2009, 10:00 a.m. EST
GM Press Conference
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/?fr_story=8c6d77d0740b10004ea16615c8877c2a1da9652d
Monday January 12, 2009, 10:15 a.m. EST
GM Press Conference
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/?fr_story=a307a8aadfa737ca8ca9720a6c4e90d9f52124f5
Wow, the misinformation here is amazing!! Buick no longer uses the Dynaflow transmissions. :P
So riding on rails isn't always a good thing...just depends on the context :P
Lucerne's fit-finish pales in comparison with Nissan Maxima and GM's own Pontiac G8. LaCrosse's fit-finish, now that's better.
If you insist on comparing with Avalon, Avalon wins in refinement, Lucerne is quieter. Interiorwise, Lucerne has better panel fits, Avalon has better materials.
That the Avalon goes bye-bye this year, has nothing to do with which is better. Avalon simply isn't needed as the market for fullsize cars keep shrinking and the current Camry is almost as large already.
Lucerne soldiers on, mainly because of customers' loyalty (Buick has loads of loyalists) towards it, remember that the Lucerne is positioned as the replacement fot the ultra-popular (by class standard) LeSabre.
Seriously, if I had any desire to own another sedan the Buick would get a good test drive. I just don't see myself ever buying another one.
so 33% unemployment would be your target for our economy if you were in Obama's position? That would leave crappy people out on the street?
Apples to oranges. How is that relevant? Crappy people have lower-paying jobs, in general (or they are unemployed). Not at all relevant to an AUTOMOBILE discussion.
Some of us want all of us to succeed.
If I look at the owners experiences with the GM's, your comments seem out of sync.
We have 1.9 million people freshly out of work since September. The ones driving GM's are crappy people in crappy cars? I hope none of them are stinking up your neighborhood.
Dave, there's a huge difference between crappy people who're still pulling some effort to become better and crappy people who think they aren't. The latter can drop dead for all I care.
Crappy people have lower-paying jobs, in general (or they are unemployed). Not at all relevant to an AUTOMOBILE discussion.
Correction, tlong, some crappy people actually get paid higher than others who actually deserve it. can you say UAW? :P
We have 1.9 million people freshly out of work since September.
So? You actually want every person alive to succeed? How noble, I wish it's that easy but it's impossible. You don't work hard, you dont succeed, simply because the world isn't that nice.
You are taking my original post way out of context and drawing ridiculous conclusions. Please re-read the thread.
Speaking of which, that Buick badge needs to go. It connotes "it's your father's Buick"," its Uncle Olaf's Buick", whatever, it just doesn't work anymore. I don't even have as much trouble with the port holes; they are good enough for 4 door Maserati's.
And Avalon is just another Camry. It was based on the previous Camry chassis. There are 3 Camrys; don't need that many.
Buick can keep the current logo. It has nothing to do with the product.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Indeed.
Quality is not good enough: Buick is now world class at the top with Lexus for both short and long term.
Dealership is not good: Buick is at the top of dealership satisfaction
Interior is not good enough: Looks pretty darn good now with top notch materials
Exterior is plain: Looks pretty stylish now
Ride and handling sucks: Now it has high tech real time adjustable dampers(will have to wait for ride to see how it works.
It does not have high tech: Now it does
It is loud: Now quietest of all midsize/entry level marques
Does not have high tech modern headlamps:now it does and they even swivel
Does not have high tech taillights: Now it has LED taillights
AWD is not available: now it is
powertrain out of date: aluminum overhead cam V6 with DI
MPG sucks: Very competitive now
It's not made in the US: now it is
The badge is out of date.
http://jalopnik.com/5125035/2010-buick-lacrosse-blue-hair-no-more
You forgot one.
Relax.
Regards,
OW
I happen to agree that the badge is way out of date. Today's Buick is very different, and the badge should reflect that. That's one of the mistakes I think they made with Caddy too, actually.
Oh and MPG can't just be competitive. If GM wants to survive, it needs to be CLASS-LEADING, not merely competitive. And yes, they have to be THAT much better to earn business back from some.
The complaints are indicating what customers want to see from Buick. GM needs to answer and provide the customers with the product they want rather than whining that people are asking too much of them.
Regards,
OW
GM is also is expected to announce the opening of a new advanced-battery test facility at its global electric-vehicle engineering center in Warren, Mich.
GM's surprises were:
• The Chevrolet Spark minicar, going on sale in the United States by 2011.
• The Chevrolet Orlando small crossover, on sale by 2011.
• A Cadillac concept, expected to be called the Converj, powered by Chevrolet Volt plug-in technology.
The three vehicles came in addition to three expected debuts: the 2010 Buick LaCrosse sedan, on sale this summer; the 2010 Cadillac SRX crossover, on sale in the second quarter; and the 2010 Chevrolet Equinox crossover, on sale in mid-2009.
The Spark is based on the Beat concept minicar shown at the 2007 New York auto show. In November, GM had said it would not sell the Beat in the United States. But as Automotive News reported in July, GM changed its mind. The minicar will look similar to the Beat, spokesman Scott Fosgard said.
GM revealed the Orlando concept vehicle at the Paris auto show last fall. The small crossover is built on the global compact-vehicle platform used for the Chevrolet Cruze. It seats seven.
The Cadillac concept, although based on the platform used for the Chevrolet Volt, is dramatically different-looking. It will be sold at a much higher price than the estimated $40,000 sticker on the Volt plug-in hybrid.
Fosgard said the three surprise vehicles show that GM plans to stick around: "These are the proof points to the skeptics that say, 'Let them die.' "
They've been hurting in the small people-mover category, something that Mazda, Kia, Toyota and Mitsu have already managed to do. This gives them something to be competitive with. The Spark/Beat is a great concept given what we know about it, and may be just the thing to counter the Fiesta.
The Caddy Volt may be more successful than the Chevy one.
Dave got a little tongue tied here at the age issue. Today's average of Buick is 55 and the range he gave is about 10 years younger than the current buyer.
On the foreign-manufacturer front, an interesting auto rivalry also had interesting statistics: The average age of Toyota shoppers was 46.6 years old, while the average age for Honda shoppers was 51.2.
And while Buick is typically the butt of jokes about buyers who are somewhere between retired and deceased, the average age of a Buick shopper last year was 55.2 years old, considerably younger than the average 63.6-year-old Mercedes-Benz shopper.
Most prefer U.S. cars
Nearly three-quarters of car shoppers prefer to buy American-made products, according to a survey by Kelley Blue Book.
More than half say they try to buy American-made products if the price is competitive, and 14% say they will go out of their way to buy American. Six percent say they will only buy American-made products and they will do without if an American-made product is not available.
"Seeing the domestic automakers' recent struggle has ignited a heightened sense of patriotism among some American car shoppers, and the latest Kelley Blue Book Marketing Research indicates that people are pulling for the Big Three to survive and thrive," said Jack R. Nerad, executive editorial director and executive market analyst for Kelley Blue Book and kbb.com.
Car sales will be in the 10M range this year. GM will not be able to last 2009 in this market. They were losing money in 2005 when car sales were in the 17 million range and there market share was above 25%. Now they have to offer over $3500 in discounts and incentives just to move cars. Don't think that will change. The American public has been conditioned to expect rebates or special financing. Also roughly 95 million new cars have been purchsed in the last 6 years. Not many people need new cars now.
GM needs a major overhaul that can only be accomplished by a Chap. 11. I know no one wants to discuss this word but in reality, the only way they will survive and see the fruits of these new designs is a Chap. 11 re-structuring backed by the government.
Of course when Chrysler goes belly up, there will be less competition...