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Chevrolet - 1,801,131
GMC - 376,996
Pontiac - 267,348
Saturn - 188,004
Cadillac - 161,159
Buick - 137,197
HUMMER - 27,485
Saab - 21,368
Enclave....3.6%
LaCrosse..14%
Lucerne...10%
Looking at the Accord it is about 2% and the Camry is 5%. Avalon is at 23%. So Buick is still higher than what Accord/Camry do in the midsize but much lower than for large car and much lower what it used to be.
In the Saturn dealership channel you get 188k sales while at the GMC/Buick/Pontiac you get 782,000 sales.
It can't be done by executive fiat.
It was a campaign promise by our President elect. Are you saying that the 111th Congress will not jump when President Obama says to? One of his many statements on the subject:
"Give the 12 million people who are here illegally many of whom have U.S. citizens for children a pathway to legalization."
Again with that many more legal workers looking for good jobs the Auto industry is a Natural. They are hard working people that are used to a tough life. The sooner GM sheds itself of the UAW burden the sooner they will start to compete with the imports being built here.
C'Mon, Gary !! ( I really don't know how much FARTHER we could get from the topic, but I can't let that comment stand.)
"A pathway to legalization" is so far, far, FAR away from saying "on this date you are automagically a citizen" that I can't believe a person would associate the two comments.
Hey, I'm just telling reality. Whether you want to believe it or not is your choice. Surely there's a good reason a longtime GM loyalist turned his back on GM right when GM needs him.
My point was there will be plenty of people that are willing to build cars without going on strike every time GM gets going in the right direction. Including all those that are now illegal aliens. Obama, Hillary and McCain all supported amnesty. I don't think it is a good idea to give those that have broken our laws a free pass to get out of jail free. However I do believe most of those 12 million illegals could build as good or better cars for GM without the huge legacy, wage costs & crippling work rules.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp
Thanks for setting the record straight on the warranty work and ability of GM deals to work on all brands.
The Cadillac story sounds like another of the GM stories that don't sound quite right but are used to diminish GM's product over and over.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
62vetteefp. I am just wondering. Did you also feel sorry for Honda and Toyota when they introduced their hybrids earlier this decade when fuel was dirt cheap? I know GM did feel sorry for them and laughed at the same time.
This is exactly the short-sighted type of thinking that GM people are suffering from. When fuel prices went up. Toyota had the Prius. GM had nothing comparable. When prices of fuel will go up again in 2 years or so, Toyota and Honda will have their hybrids which will have been selling for a time long enough to be profitable. Will the Volt be profitable? With this type of shortsightness, let's just hope GM doesn't declare bankruptcy by then.
This is exactly the short-sighted type of thinking that GM people are suffering from.
I predict that the Honda Insight will end up being a successful car. This is a strategy measured in decades, not 1-2 years. Gas will not be cheap forever.
GM has the Volt coming but looks to have some major usability issues IMHO - cost, 40 miles on a charge only then you are running on gas through an intricate charging system. GM also has the light hybrid system which is nearly worthless. GM also has the two mode hybrid system which was trumpeted on these boards a couple of years ago but seems only to be available on SUVs and has not lit the world on fire. Perhaps they will soon put it out in a smaller car and then we can see if it is as good as supporters claim. My point is that while Toyota, Honda, and apparently Ford (Fusion) all have very practical, reasonable cost and performance hybrid products that are in CARS, GM is still not there. Where is their high volume, PRACTICAL new-age propulsion system? Just don't see it yet.
See the below excerpt from a Feb 2008 article, obviously written before the late 2008 bailout disasters - this is *another* example of my case that Wagoner has a serious case of poor strategic direction:
Not to put too fine a point on it, GM is ignoring the old maxim: when you’re in a hole, first, stop digging. The automaker is continuing to spread its hybrid efforts thin with its (rushed and compromised) mild hybrid Malibu. It continues to pursue the hugely expensive, untried and untested Volt electric – gas plug-in hybrid. And it refuses to abandon its two-mode snafu. Meanwhile, Toyota is plugging away at its Synergy Dive, steadily lowering costs, bringing the fuel efficient drivetrain within the price range of similarly capable gas engines.
GM remains held captive by its unrealistic goal of creating a truly revolutionary drivetrain. Like a degenerate gambler with a shrinking bankroll, GM seems convinced that ever bigger risks are the key to emerging from its decades-long neglect of fuel efficient vehicles. Rather than chasing the big score, GM would be far better off ceding the hybrid market. If it can’t satisfy new federal corporate average fuel economy regulations using traditional technology, it should join Nissan and license Synergy Drive from Toyota. That way it could concentrate its time and resources on restoring its branding and quality, and, thus, its fortunes.
Sorry but I'd like another source cited please. Especially since neither a Saturn dealer nor a Pontac/Buick/GMC dealer would even work on my old Chevy Corsica under warranty (while it was under warranty anyway)...they said it had to be taken to a Chevy dealer.
The story sounds just about right to me, given my experience. I don't think GM sets and.or enforces standards of conduct on their dealerships, and that's probably another issue they need to fix. ESPECIALLY if this sort of thing is inconsistent from dealer to dealer (which is pretty easy with so many brands running around).
Others seem to be on the same page.
Regards,
OW
I had to envoke the Lemon Law system before they discovered a defective part in my Denali. That was in 2004.
If you want proof of that instance let me know.
Regards,
OW
Thank you for contacting Cadillac and your interest in the 2009 Escalade. We appreciate the time you have taken to write us.
For warranty service, we recommend that you take your vehicle to the selling dealership. Your Cadillac dealer has the proper tools, training, and parts inventory to make any necessary warranty repairs should they be required. In an emergency situation, you may visit another authorized General Motors dealer for warranty service. However, certain warranty repairs require special tools or training that only a dealer selling your brand may have. Therefore, not all dealers are able to perform every repair. Please speak with your dealer for more information. You can find nearby dealers by using the Dealer Locator web tool at http://www.cadillac.com.
At Cadillac, we strive to provide exceptional customer service. If we can be of any further assistance please email us or call 1-800-333-4223 Monday through Friday between the hours of 8am to 9pm Eastern Time, and Saturday 9am to 6pm. Thank you for contacting Cadillac.
Sincerely,
The Cadillac Marketing Team
http://www.cadillac.com/
EyesOn Design winners, announced this afternoon, are selected by some of the best designers and academics in the business. They choose the best designs from the floor of the 2009 North American International Auto Show.
The winners in the production vehicle category were the Audi R8 V10 and BMW Z4.
This year’s three chief judges were Chris Bangle, design chief at BMW; Willie G. Davidson, executive vice president and chief styling officer at Harley-Davidson; and Larry Erickson, chair of transportation design for the College for Creative Studies.
Overall, 23 judges took part in selecting this year’s winners in the fifth annual design awards.
Jan. 13, 2009
In announcing a plan to assemble in Michigan the lithium-ion battery packs for the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle, General Motors Corp. also is forming an education cooperative that aims to train a new breed of engineer that can commingle electrical and automotive knowledge.
Part of GM's multi-faceted approach to build a foundation for the domestic development and supply of advanced batteries for the auto industry is a $5-million, 5-year program that establishes at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor the GM/U-M Advanced Battery Coalition for Drivetrains (ABCD).
Ann Marie Sastry, the Univ. of Michigan's Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Mechanical, Biomedical and Materials Science and Engineering - and U-M's co-director of the ABCD - said at the Detroit auto show here the program also incorporates a new Master's degree called Energy Systems Engineering. About 25 U-of-M students and 50 GM engineers last week began the one-year Energy Systems Engineering track, Sastry said.
The course is available online and focuses on three competencies that interrelate for vehicle battery development, she said: portable electronics, vehicle technology and electricity-grid infrastructure.
Sastry said portable electronics are an area of concentration because many battery developments currently are driven by the personal-electronics industry. And understanding of the energy-grid infrastructure is vital because it will be important to optimize the connection between advanced hybrid and electric vehicles and the grid.
"Michigan is going to become a hotbed for this kind of activity," said Jim Queen, GM's group vice president of global engineering. "This is a larger societal problem we're addressing together."
The 75 or so students enrolled in the initial Energy Systems Engineering track are just a start, however: "We need thousands of engineers in this space," said Sastry.
Go to: http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/01/gm-initiative-to-be-incubator-for-battery-en- gineering-education.html
http://interpro.engin.umich.edu/igpinfo.htm?itemid=74&id=9
No, I believe you, and it doesn't surprise me.
Ok, you expect a Saturn dealership to have mechanics which have been trained and have the tools to work on a Corvette or CTS-V? Not going to happen. I seriously doubt a Toyota dealer would be able to service an LS-460 either.
It looks like Caddy is giving any non Cadillac GM dealers an out. My question would be, why not just have the part sent to the non Cadillac dealer for installation? I had a similar situation with Chrysler. My Mercedes Sprinter RV had the front spring break. I called the 800 number and they gave me the Dodge dealer in that town, great. I called and they did not work on the Sprinter. Closest dealer was 100 miles away and Chrysler would not pay towing because the local dealer should be able to repair. I drove slowly the 100 miles to Boerne Chrysler near San Antonio. They took me right in ordered the spring, gave me a Durango loaner. I was back on my vacation in 2 days. No cost to me. I was very pleased with Chrysler service once I got the right dealer. I would imagine that is the case with all brands. Dealers vary from place to place.
My neighbor got his 07 Escalade broke down in the middle of nowhere in Idaho, but managed to drive it a bit to the nearest town. Alas, the town had no Cadillac service center, so he stopped at local GMC dealer for assistance. The mechanic told him the rear suspension broke down, and sparepart was avaliable there, but he wouldn't replace it in fear that the Slade might lose it's warranty.
My neighbor then called Cadillac for assistance, which rep simply said they couldn't dispatch any roadside assistant because it was "too far from nearest service center". The rep then "talked to his manager", who took over and told him it's ok to temporarily replace it with the GMC Denali suspension, as they're actually the same anyway (albeit with slightly different damper rate). He had to pay for the suspension, but when he return he could get the replacement from Cadillac under warranty. He agreed and asked for a form of agreement, the manager said it's been recorded in their database (which he foolishly believed).
When he returned home he visited local Cadillac to get the proper replacement, however he was told the warranty was void as he used non-Cadillac part. He called Cadillac again, who replied "The use of parts not from Cadillac voids the warranty without exception." He then reminded them of the database records he was told about, and was answered with "We have no such records available". He then asked for the manager, who replied shortly with "We will check this out immediately". Never happened, instead Cadillac sent him this letter basically saying:
"The warranty for rear right suspension item for your vehicle is no longer honored by Cadillac nor GM. This due to the use of improper replacement parts that was not from Cadillac. However, looking at your history and loyalty to GM in the past, we have decided to re-activate your full warranty once the vehicle receive full service at any of our certified Cadillac service Center. This reactivation does not include initial service, in which you will be required to pay for all parts and service fees".
GM made the mistake, refused to honor warranty, and then sent this ridiculous letter almost as if the customer's at fault. What kind of joke is that? He didn't file a lawsuit as he thought it's a waste of time and money. However he swore it'd be his 13th and last GM car for the rest of his life (oh, the irony...).
GM just lost another customer. A loyal one, unless you think buying 13 GM cars isn't loyal enough. So much for "premium service" isn't it? LOL...
Naturally, he signed the "GM customer no more" petition. He even pressed the pen so hard he actually signed THROUGH the paper instead of on it.
Here is the story again. "somebodies" neighbor had an issue that a GMC dealer would not service a Cadillac. I guess it could be true that some service guy in the middle of nowhere would turn down warranty work and actually charge for the service. No, BOGUS. The dealer warranty systems are common for all GM dealers. The GMC guy would have put in the VIN and nothing would have been said. Heck the parts were even common.
Then the "neighbor" got a letter from Cadillac stating that improper parts were put on. As shown before Cadillac service can be had at any GM dealership under warranty. So again the bogus continues.
If corporate says the one dealer should be able to service they other makes, then they should. If they can't, then the right and left hands should gets their respective acts together and get on the same page.
Likewise, if GM is not going to require that those dealers be able to service any GM model, then THEY needs to spell that out, instead of saying any GM dealer should be able to fix it in an emergency.
Toyota and Lexus don't have this problem...primarily because toyotas go to toyota dealers, instead of Chevy's going to Pontiac or Saturn dealers (or trying to). Yet another pitfall of having TOO MANY BRANDS!! ARE YOU BLEEPING LISTENING TO ME GM???
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
You need to get out more. You need a lawyer and a financial adviser when you go for service at my GMC dealer!
Regards,
OW
what if all airlines that are losing money were liquidated through bankruptcy. That would leave a few carriers. how would we all like it if then there were a 1 in 10 chance we could fly to a desired destination? Would anybody support a bailout of the airlines or would I-75 and I-95 become parking lots? What would happen to the D3 when rental fleets at airports were just sitting? Since they are such bad cars would it not matter?
I think hybrids are not the final solution and GM is smart enough to know that as well. To make money selling them, $4k has to be added to the car price. The interest on the extra $4k is $280 a year. The ins. is probably another $200 a year, the $4k spread over 60 months is another $66 a month, and in my state there is $280 more sales tax in year one and an excise tax of about $50 a year for many years on the extra $4k. Bottom line is they don't pan out unless you drive 25k miles a year and gas stays out of it's current price slump. Then you still only have a very marginal savings and may have given up some utility to get it.
Regards,
OW
I thought the two-mode hybrid was more like an additional $10K, so your figures are very conservative. It's not worth it.
Maybe not, but Toyota managed to find 241 thousand takers last year alone. And if GM were "smart enough", they wouldn't have slapped a few of their own pathetic attempts together to try and compete for those sales. They also would have been even smarter if they stuck to their guns and stayed out since they were neither up to snuff (underperforming compared to thier non-hybrid counterparts) and had big problems with battery leaks. :lemon:
Jesse Snyder
Automotive News
January 13, 2009 - 10:15 am ET
UPDATED: 01/13/09 4:59 ET
DETROIT -- General Motors is likely to need a modified version of bankruptcy to restructure the last part of its debt, says Deutsche Bank Managing Director Rod Lache.
"The chances are greater than not that there will be bankruptcy, at least for GM," Lache said here today at a Society of Automotive Analysts conference. "But it won't be the disruptive, scary bankruptcy that suppliers fear."
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Lache said GM must restructure $62 billion in debt, including converting $30 billion in unsecured debt into $10 billion in new bonds and $20 billion in equity. But about 20 percent of unsecured bondholders won't convert voluntarily, he said.
"GM must get a Bankruptcy Court to order that," Lache said. But it won't be a messy, complicated process, he predicted.
Lache expects GM to renegotiate its contract with the UAW and persuade the union to convert into new equity GM's scheduled $20 billion in contributions to a union-run trust fund known as a Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, or VEBA.
But Lache predicts that without a court order, GM can't get all parties to agree to its debt restructuring. Without sacrifices from all parties, the other agreements will collapse, he said.
"Without that, labor may not agree to make its sacrifices, and a federal car czar may not approve the package," he said, referring to the yet-to-be appointed administrator of the auto industry rescue effort.
With or without a bankruptcy, GM's shareholders will lose all or most of their investment, Lache said. If creditors agree to swap their existing debt for mostly equity of perhaps $40 billion, existing debtors would see GM's current market capitalization of $2.5 billion dilute further.
"But if it goes to bankruptcy, the court would almost certainly eliminate all shareholder equity," Lache said. "Shareholders may get something if GM restructures. But if it goes to bankruptcy, they'll get zero."
yes voice mails are being turned off but they are being turned off with the phone. Some had both a land line with voice mail and a cell phone with voice mail. They are going to one.
Let me get this straight; UNEMPLOY 75,000 people, put them on unemployment, and replace them with people making HALF THE PAY.
Now, THAT will do the US taxbase a world of good.
So, by this logic, sometime soon after gas is $4 the Tundra and Sequoia will be axed????
".....GM has the Volt coming but looks to have some major usability issues IMHO - cost, 40 miles on a charge only then you are running on gas through an intricate charging system"
What is so intricate about an alternator charging a battery??? We've been doing that for 90 years.
Then call the BBB and go to another dealer. That's what I did w/ by Buick, and guess what; satisfaction the 2nd time around.
I realize you are jesting or should be. The truth is the imports keep building factories and hiring people off the street and they are building superior cars to GM on a regular basis. We are not talking rocket science. If someone cannot be trained in 2 weeks to do most any job in a factory he or she should be let go and find someone that can. The UAW may have the Big 3 convinced they are good workers. The proof is not in the final product. At least not in my most recent GM purchase. In fact my good trucks came from Mexico and Canada.
Now, THAT will do the US taxbase a world of good.
Unemployment is being paid to the out of work employees currently. If they take a job at half the cost per hour it saves GM a ton of money. The Jobs bank is history so we just replace the current employees on unemployment with the GM employees that feel they do not need to cut their wages to save their company. It is pretty much a wash on the tax payer. This will all have to happen under bankruptcy as the UAW has already said they would not open their contract for negotiation. I am sure many UAW workers would want to stay on the job even at half the pay and benefits. Beats unemployment for 6 months then nothing.
Don't know where you drew that conclusion as I did not say that. Who knows what will happen to the large vehicles? If gas hits $4 then everybody will cut production and models of big vehicles.
What is so intricate about an alternator charging a battery??? We've been doing that for 90 years.
Based upon that logic why has it taken GM four years from first advertising the Volt to produce it? We've been doing it for 90 years. Toyota and Honda have had hybrids on the market for nearly ten years. GM is very late, as usual.
You missed or ignored the original point. Toyota brought ONE system to market, which was usable and beneficial. It at least breaks even in a few years of use. GM has the "mild hybrid" system which is barely useful at all but gives them the right to use the term "hybrid". GM also has the two-mode hybrid which is much more complex than say, Honda's. It adds $10K to each vehicle and we haven't seen it in cars yet. GM is also trying to set the world on fire with the Volt which is looking more and more like a $1B failure. Since GM is burning money and in the ICU unit, where was their strategy that made it smart to split their new powertrain approaches across THREE different technologies, none of them as good as Toyota's or Honda's. Great way to waste resources when you are dying.
I agree. GM burned so much money on the wrong hybrid products. And despite having a lot of hybrid models right now. NONE of them can achieve more than 35 mpg in city driving.
Whether you like it or not, the Cadillac story is true. Of course, fairly speaking my neighbor may be anti GM afterall. I mean, so far he's only bought 13 GM cars for the past 35 years. He must really hate his Eldorado that he only give it a new coat of wax every month and keep it in his garage (allowing not even his son to drive it) with only a cheapo Supremeweave custom car cover. Sure sounds like a true Gm hater doesn't he? :P :P :P
Fairly speaking, I received king-like treatment when I visited the same dealership looking at the Escalade and STS. I wonder if they're being nice just because they expected me to buy.
You're entitled to your own opinion. Me? I chose to believe someone who lives only 3 houses apart from me and his treasured Cadillacs and personal experience. Prove it? Honestly I can't.
Sometimes reality goes beyond written proves and numbers. Nothing beats real life, trust the "experts" and "numbers" forever and you'll always be blinded.
Regards,
OW
There are no "divisions" to argue over this. GM warranty/service is done by a separate group. I have no idea why a dealer would not do the work. They all get paid by the same software and the same amount and I would think any dealer would want all the work they could get right now.
Now on Divisions. What are they responsible for? There are 4 main channels Premium, BPG, Saturn and Chevrolet. Under each General Manager is an Advertising, a Marketing and a Sales Manager.
According to data from Edmunds.com, the Detroit Three lost a collective total of 3.7 points of market share in 2008. Chrysler led the group, ceding 1.9 points of share (from 12.9 percent of the market in 2007 to 11 percent in 2008). GM lost 1.4 percent (from 23.8 percent in 2007 to 22.4 percent). Ford gave back 0.4 points of share (from 15.5 percent to 15.1 percent for 2008).
Regards,
OW