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That was designed in for a purpose...so the loyal returned to buy another vehicle....unfortunately for the D3, the other brands are winning the game. Those darned disloyal customers! Why, I oughta.... :mad:
Regards,
OW
U.S.:
* Ft. Wayne (Ind.) - Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra Light Duty Regular and Extended Cab
* Flint Assembly (Mich.) - Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra Heavy Duty Regular and Crew Cab & Medium Duty
* Wentzville (Mo.) - Chevy Express, GMC Savanna
* Lansing Delta Township (Mich.) - Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook
* Pontiac Assembly (Mich.) - Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra Heavy Duty Extended Cab
* Spring Hill (Tenn.) - Chevy Traverse
* Fairfax Assembly (Kan.) - Chevrolet Malibu/Hybrid, Saturn Aura/Hybrid
* Arlington Assembly (Texas) - Full Size SUVs: Chevy Suburban, Tahoe & Tahoe Hybrid, GMC Yukon, Yukon XL & Yukon Hybrid, Cadillac Escalade/Escalade ESV & Escalade Hybrid
* Lansing Grand River (Mich.) - Cadillac STS & CTS
* Orion (Mich.) - Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G6
* Detroit-Hamtramck (Mich.) - Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS
* Shreveport (La.) - Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon, Hummer H3 & H3T
* Bowling Green (Ky.) - Chevy Corvette, Cadillac XLR
* Wilmington (Del.) - Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, Opel GT
Canada:
* Oshawa Consolidated - Chevy Impala
* Oshawa Truck - Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra Light Duty Extended and Crew Cab
* CAMI - Chevy Equinox, Pontiac Torrent
Mexico:
* Silao - Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra Light Duty Crew Cab, Chevy Avalanche, Cadillac Escalade EXT
* Ramos 2 - Chevy HHR, Saturn VUE, Chevy Captiva
* San Luis Potosi - Chevy Aveo, Pontiac G3
In one week they also went from
post #3139, "General Motors Corp. said it has enough government loans to cover its worst-case forecast for U.S. auto sales and won’t need more if the economy holds up" (1/7/09)
to
"worst-case scenario would require more than the $13.4 billion already allocated by the Treasury Department." (1/12/09)
It's hard to trust much of anything we hear from GM.
IIRC, the H3 is based on the Trailblazer, which can fit the 5.3 V-8. The new Duramax 4.5 was designed to fit in the space of the 5.3, so it would work. When, who knows.
Do the obvious! Convert to a Honda vehicle. Honda is the best prepared manufacturer for the current economic situation. Honda's line of vehicles are smaller,more reliable, gas sipping vehicles with great resale value.
In a few months, the Honda Insight will be introduced. It is the Honda hybrid ( electric motor and gas motor) that is the direction the car manufacturers should be driving towards.
I think there is a lot of double talk to get Congress to loosen up the purse strings on the $25 billion allocated for new technology. I would be most surprised if the actual lithium Cells are manufactured in the USA. I figured GM would pull a scam on A123 from the get go. And what other cars are slated to use A123 batteries? The Prius plug-in kit using A123 batteries has had a setback with one of the modified 2008 Prius burning up. Also my understanding is most of the Lithium comes from Bolivia. After the Enron debacle their new leader is not pro USA. He is tied in tight with Chavez.
Bottom line make sure your GM Card dollar balance is equal or greater to the amount printed on the mailing they sent you on the date the dealership activates the code found on the mailer.
The Honda Insight is a joke. It does not have as high of an EPA rating as the much bigger Civic Hybrid. Honda needs to go back to the drawing board. All they did was try to match the oddball design of the Prius in a cheap hybrid.
BTW, my past '97 Camry and current '04 and '05 Camrys have been essentially trouble-free. I service them myself, so they rarely see the local Toyota dealer, which has a less than stellar reputation (not just for Toyota but for all the brands it sells, import AND domestic). Our town is too small to have more than one dealer per make.
Oh, and about GM's quality problems being a thing of the past? A colleague at work with an '05 Saturn ION is ready to give up on it after repeated ignition module failures (the car won't start or the key can't be removed from the ignition switch). He moved here from the Detroit area, and there's no Saturn dealer in town. He has to drive about 30 miles to the next town for the repair work, most of which is still covered under the warranty. Still a pain because he's forced to take time off from work.
It seems GM still treats its smaller cars with disdain, whereas the big cars favored by lemko and imidazol are much better.
And you think that's enough? It should be more like 20-25 at most.
From what I know, Trailblazer bros, Colorado bros, and H3 are all built on the same platform.
Any GM dealer will cover any GM work.
Not sure how A123 was a scam. GM up to a short time ago was using both battery sources in their development. LG was chosen because they had the better battery technology (per testing) at least in today's forms.
Perhaps we do not see it here because this is a GM forum every large OEM is showing their electric cars from Chrylser to Nissan and any of those could use the batteries.
Now 2 years from now when gas goes back up and the economy is starting to roll again electric/hybrid vehicles will be more attractive.
And many of GM's vehicles are designed with American criteria such as large cabin room and comfort. Up to the customer to decide if the extra gas is worth the American criteria. Many of these vehicles (redesigned for higher mpg) are selling relative to the entire market.
Then again GM does offer many vehicles that do give the attributes of high MPG with the smallness you desire.
AND it looks like even the Tokyo Motor Show may be canceled this year.
The Japan Automobile Manufacturers' Association is debating whether to cancel the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, a JAMA executive said today.
The debate is driven in part by fewer non-Japanese automakers' having signed up to take part in the October show amid the global financial crisis. But some Japanese exhibitors also are proposing that the show be canceled this year.
"A couple companies are not in favor of organizing the show under these conditions, but that is not JAMA's opinion," Toshihiro Iwatake, JAMA's executive director and secretary general, told Automotive News.
The 41st annual Tokyo Motor Show is scheduled to take place Oct. 23-Nov. 8. Press days are to be Oct. 21 and 22. The theme is "Fun driving for us, eco driving for earth."
A decision on whether to cancel the show will be made by early next month, he said
Pontiac will be down to only 4 models: G8, G5, Solstice and Vibe.
So that would be, um... 5 wouldn't it?
Hummer has recently been put under strategic review, which includes the possible sale of the brand. And if there are no takers, then what?
GM will also immediately undertake and expedite a strategic review of the Saab brand globally. Saying it, and doing something about it are two different things.
Saturn, which has performed below expectations, has a unique franchise agreement and operating structure. As part of the Plan, the company will accelerate discussions with Saturn retailers and explore alternatives for the Saturn brand. Like?
Again 62, GM needs to consolidate. I don't see that here... I see "Well, were thinking about it, oh and now we need more money. Thanks". :sick:
Again, so far GM has:
- "planned" on gettng rid of 2 Pontiacs (The Torrent, which will be replaced by a GMC) and the G3 which should save about 5 bucks in development money.
- Dropped a bunch of 8 year old GMT-360 SUV's
- Stopped plans on the G8 ST. But thing is, there are already rumblings on the GM forums that it will appear anyways, but as a Chevy.
Wow, big efforts guys. :sick: Dick Wagoner is a genius.
So that would be, um... 5 wouldn't it? 1,2,3,4
- "planned" on gettng rid of 2 Pontiacs (The Torrent, which will be replaced by a GMC) and the G3 which should save about 5 bucks in development money.
G6 is not counted as a model?
As I can see the GMC / Buick / Pontiac dealership channel:
Small cars: Vibe/G5 (using models already out there)
Small sports car: Solstice
Mid sized car: LaCrosse
Large car premium: Lucerne
Large car sport: G8
Small CUV: GMC ?
Large CUV: Enclave (Acadia to be dropped at end of lifecycle)
Medium BOF Pick up:Canyon
Large BOF Pick up: Siera
Large SUV: Yukon (will this be dropped at end of lifecycle?)
Large Van:Savana
My comment was directed to someone who said GM was not following the restructuring plan in the model / marque area. As posted in the restructuring plan they look, even though it has been only about 3 days into it, to be following it to the letter as far as the models / marques go. They are trying to do something with Hummer/Saab/Saturn and decrease the number of models at Pontiac and doing more fuel efficient/alternative models.
LG Chem, which will initially supply the batteries from Korea, has several more years of experience in the "prismatic" cell design Lutz said is needed for long-term energy storage.
"We need to eliminate risk as much as possible because we're going so fast," the product chief said.
The ever-blunt Lutz said the technology needs to come from countries such as Korea, China and Japan where the governments support this kind of research, whereas the United States does not.
LG Chem has a whole research campus paid for by the Korean government, Lutz said in advocating U.S. support for advanced technology development. Lutz said he hopes the incoming Obama Administration sees the need to invest in battery development as a key U.S. competency.
Meanwhile, volumes will be low of the Korean-made batteries and Lutz said he hopes if the volumes warrant, LG Chem will look at establishing an American plant to make the cells.
Key parts of the initiative include:
• Opening the largest automotive battery lab in the United States -- 31,000 square feet -- that can test new energy storage technologies as well as lithium ion and nickel-metal hydride batteries. The lab will lead GM's network of existing labs in Honeoye Falls, N.Y.; Warren, Mich.; Torrance, Calif.; and Mainz-Kastel, Germany.
• Adding several hundred engineers this year to GM's global hybrid, electric-vehicle and advanced battery staff.
• Working with the University of Michigan to create an automotive advanced battery lab in Ann Arbor, Mich., and to train automotive battery engineers.
• Establishing a roster of battery suppliers for cell development, manufacturing and battery integration expertise -- specifically including LG Chem, A123 Systems, Hitachi Ltd., Compact Power and Cobasys.
• Collaborating with government organizations and industry consortiums -- such as the U.S. Department of Energy, U.S. Council for Automotive Research, U.S. Advanced Battery Consortium LLC and the Electric Power Research Institute -- to promote the development of hybrids, plug-ins and electric vehicles and the related infrastructure to support them.
In GM’s announcement today, LG Chem, of South Korea, was identified as the supplier of battery cells for the Volt. Currently, the cells for lithium ion batteries are all manufactured overseas, but $100 million of the new $335-million Michigan incentive package for battery makers – which Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign into law Wednesday at Cobo Center – is dedicated to locating a battery cell plant in the state.
Patil said, the battery's basic chemistry, which relies heavily on manganese, is set.
How was LG Chem able to win the Volt battery contract?
We had three advantages. One is the cathode chemistry, which is more manganese-based. That has the safety characteristics because it resists giving off oxygen. But at the same time, it also has a stable and fixed cost.
The second is the battery's proprietary zinc core separator. The importance of that is that other manufacturers have protection devices outside the cell. But we have a significant layer of protection inside the cell.
And finally, it is the laminated flat package. It is like the battery in your laptop. The part count is so much smaller, which means better manufacturability, better quality and lower cost. And it is also good for thermal management. The temperature difference between the center of that flat cell and the surface is much less than in a cylindrical cell. If ever the cell was to let go, the failure mode is very benign. If a cylindrical cell lets go, it becomes a projectile.
What is the expected life span of the battery pack?
We are going to be warrantying it for 10 years or 150,000 miles. It's an arrangement where GM warranties it to the customer, and we are responsible to GM for the warranty.
When will LG deliver the first production-ready cells to GM?
We have already been delivering production-intent cells. GM is already putting production-intent cells into packs.
"It was not as detailed as what we've been dealing with in the U.S., so we need to engage in dialogue there before we go any further," GM Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson told reporters at the Detroit auto show. "We haven't accepted it."
"We want to make sure it fits into an overall viability plan for GM before we accept it," he added.
I would think that the Cells are the big cost. Tying them together in a battery should not be very expensive. Some labor, but most costly cells built elsewhere. Regulations will kill industry in this country faster than high labor costs.
Not sure how A123 was a scam.
Not the companies attempt to get a contract with GM. I am sure they are a legitimate research company. They do have issues with their batteries that may or may not be resolved. I tend to think it is the Li-Ion technology that is flawed. My complaint with A123 was trying to snag $1.84 billion in tax dollars for a new facility to build batteries for the Volt. They probably knew they would lose the GM contract.
every large OEM is showing their electric cars from Chrylser to Nissan and any of those could use the batteries.
If GM chose a different cell maker because they make better batteries, do you think any other auto maker will want 2nd rate batteries from A123?
Hybrid sales are tanking due to gas under $2 and their price
You are right. In San Diego alone there are 100s of Prius sitting on dealers lots. Same for the Civic Hybrid. It is our typical knee jerk reaction to the price of gas. Now is the time to buy a hybrid if that is what you want. Though my brother in law wanted an Escape Hybrid and the dealer was not budging off of MSRP. He bought a loaded V6 Escape for $10k less.
GM has a 2 story exhibit they have used the last few years but did not put it up due to the cost of moving and assembling it.
I imagine it is the same complaint that I hear from a friend that oversees travel shows for the Greek Travel ministry. UNION workers that will not let you touch your own display at many venues. He did a travel show in Chicago and does not think they will go back there. The Union goons damaged their exhibit and would not accept responsibility. I imagine the Detroit Convention facilities are totally controlled by Unions. It would be interesting to find out how many of those not participating felt the costs imposed by the different Unions kept them away.
AND it looks like even the Tokyo Motor Show may be canceled this year.
The theme is "Fun driving for us, eco driving for earth."
There is NOTHING Fun about green cars and hybrids. They appealed to a VERY small group of eco techno greenie nerds. Fun is a Porshce 911. While we will be seeing more and more of the econo type cars, they are just for transportation. I would say that anyone that thinks driving a Prius is fun, runs shy of a full load. It is economical transportation at best.
"The first couple of weeks have started off stronger than we expected," Jim Farley, Ford group vice president of marketing and communications, said here today at the auto show. "It's been across the board, across the industry."
The increase spans a range of vehicle segments, said Ken Czubay, Ford's vice president of U.S. sales and marketing, citing internal sales data and conversations with competitors. Czubay estimated that the industry is on track to sell 20,000 to 30,000 more vehicles this month than in December.
January sales topping December's would be more significant than the raw numbers suggest because December is typically a stronger month.
So that would be, um... 5 wouldn't it? 1,2,3,4
The reason for the confusion is Lutz is counting the Solstice twice, for the convertible and the coupe. So you get G8, G5, Vibe, and 2 Solstices.
I agree with earlier posters that cutting 8 models out of 48 over 3 years is simply not going far enough. GM needs to cut more overlapping models and quickly!
As part of the survival strategy submitted to Congress last month, GM said it intends to focus U.S. product and marketing resources on Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC.
There you go again with your exaggerations Gary. Of course the Prius is NOT a Porsche 911, but it's not all that much different from your average small sedan. Actually, it's better appointed than most and getting 50 mpg is a big bonus.
I used one as a rental on a recent business trip to Chicago, drove it 110 miles, and the in-car computer bar chart showed plus or minus 50 mpg for each 5-mile segment of the trip. This was in mostly below freezing temps. I only had to add 2.5 gallons before returning it and I literally "stuffed" the tank to make sure it showed "full" on return. I have no idea if it started out with a truly full tank in the beginning, because it uses an 8-segment bar gauge, and all 8 bars were lit.
One other reason for picking the Prius is that its controls (cruise, headlamp and wiper switches, etc.) are identical to those used on the Toyota products I own. Nothing is more frustrating than starting out in a rental car with inscrutable controls.
The upshot is I paid a little more upfront for the Prius, but got my money back in gas savings.
Interesting, however it doesn't change the fact that maintaining 40 models when 25 is more than enough to cover the market demands. Kill all slow selling models and you get about 20 left.
Think what you want but to me this is a fine example of wasting money. And then... more bailout, and we all wonder why GM keep asking for more... :P
Sure they will, but will they honor the differences in contract and warranty? Another question, even if the dealer will cover it, will GM cover it?
Not from what I see. Check this out:
My neighbor got his 07 Escalade broke down in the middle of nowhere in Idaho, but managed to drive it a bit to the nearest town. Alas, the town had no Cadillac service center, so he stopped at local GMC dealer for assistance. The mechanic told him the rear suspension broke down, and sparepart was avaliable there, but he wouldn't replace it in fear that the Slade might lose it's warranty.
My neighbor then called Cadillac for assistance, which rep simply said they couldn't dispatch any roadside assistant because it was "too far from nearest service center". The rep then "talked to his manager", who took over and told him it's ok to temporarily replace it with the GMC Denali suspension, as they're actually the same anyway (albeit with slightly different damper rate). He had to pay for the suspension, but when he return he could get the replacement from Cadillac under warranty. He agreed and asked for a form of agreement, the manager said it's been recorded in their database (which he foolishly believed).
When he returned home he visited local Cadillac to get the proper replacement, however he was told the warranty was void as he used non-Cadillac part. He called Cadillac again, who replied "The use of parts not from Cadillac voids the warranty without exception." He then reminded them of the database records he was told about, and was answered with "We have no such records available". He then asked for the manager, who replied shortly with "We will check this out immediately". Never happened, instead Cadillac sent him this letter basically saying:
"The warranty for rear right suspension item for your vehicle is no longer honored by Cadillac nor GM. This due to the use of improper replacement parts that was not from Cadillac. However, looking at your history and loyalty to GM in the past, we have decided to re-activate your full warranty once the vehicle receive full service at any of our certified Cadillac service Center. This reactivation does not include initial service, in which you will be required to pay for all parts and service fees".
GM made the mistake, refused to honor warranty, and then sent this ridiculous letter almost as if the customer's at fault. What kind of joke is that? He didn't file a lawsuit as he thought it's a waste of time and money. However he swore it'd be his 13th and last GM car for the rest of his life (oh, the irony...).
GM just lost another customer. A loyal one, unless you think buying 13 GM cars isn't loyal enough. So much for "premium service" isn't it? LOL...
Naturally, he signed the "GM customer no more" petition. He even pressed the pen so hard he actually signed THROUGH the paper instead of on it.
For example, Hummer has been up for sale since the summertime. And GM can't seem to sell this joke to anyone. Well boo f'n hoo, you know what? If it were me and I couldn't sell something, then I lower the price. And lower it some more until some sorry sap out there gets it for a song. Cut your losses and move on.
I guess I should have stipulated Toyota. They do not have anything I would consider fun to drive. My comment was a response to the theme of the Japanese Auto show. It is for those that are eco weenies. That leaves out a lot of car enthusiasts that LIKE to drive a performance vehicle. Not everyone just wants a car to get from point A to B. That to me is not appealing in any way shape or form.
Plus, 12 days worth of sales don't necessarily reflect anything.
don't be surprised if they need more money.....
Ignition Control Module is a shared part. Looks cost efficient to me. I would expect a Chevy dealer to have them on hand.
CHEVROLET CAVALIER (2002 - 2005)
CHEVROLET CLASSIC (2004 - 2005)
CHEVROLET COBALT 2005
CHEVROLET COBALT LS 2006
CHEVROLET COBALT LT 2006
CHEVROLET COBALT LTZ 2006
CHEVROLET HHR LS 2006
CHEVROLET HHR LT 2006
CHEVROLET MALIBU (2004 - 2005)
CHEVROLET MALIBU LS 2006
CHEVROLET MALIBU LT 2006
OLDSMOBILE ALERO (2002 - 2004)
PONTIAC GRAND AM (2002 - 2004)
PONTIAC GRAND AM SE 2005
PONTIAC PURSUIT (2005 - 2006)
PONTIAC SUNFIRE (2002 - 2005)
SATURN ION (2003 - 2004)
SATURN ION-1 2005
SATURN ION-2 (2005 - 2006)
SATURN ION-3 (2005 - 2006)
SATURN L SERIES (2002 - 2004)
SATURN LS 2000
SATURN LS SERIES 2001
SATURN LS1 2000
SATURN LW SERIES (2001 - 2003)
SATURN LW1 2000
SATURN VUE (2002 - 2007)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One issue are the all new models that will be coming out.
But back to the original comment. GM looks to be keeping to the restructuring plan they submitted.
Probably due to all this Global Warming.
The economy right now is headed down towards a depression, if nothing major changes. The car companies had better prepare for much worse. If I were GM I'd sell or shutdown permanently 1/3 of their production next week, go bankrupt, and eliminate the union and bring in replacement workers.
Excellent advice. Just too logical for guys like Wagoner. There are 16,000,000 supposedly out of work and 12,000,000 illegals that will become citizens on January 21st. That means about 28 million people that would be thrilled with a job paying half of what the average UAW worker now gets. And they would do the job without complaining and looking for a reason to go on strike. A no brainer for Wagoner.
That's news to me.
It can't be done by executive fiat.
And that is part of the problem. They can't cut any more without addressing the issue of closing dealerships in a more rapid fashion. By only reducing to 40 brands, they avoid having to buy out dealerships which will cost $$$$.
I guarantee they are trying to figure out a cheap way to dispose of Saturn. My plan would be to move the Saturn lineup to Pontiac and drop Saturn. At one point, when it still had the plastic body, Saturn could have been sold but now it's too integrated. I like the future plans of Saturn and it would fit Pontiac. Also you have more Pontiac dealerships which will give these cars more visibility and hopefully more sales. Drop Buick except for overseas where China evidently loves Buick. GM is spending a ton of money on Buick to only see 137,000 in sales (2008 Buick sales). Hummer and Saab would be on sale at Walmart prices.
I wonder how many of the 137,000 Buick sales are rental or fleet vehicles????? (62vette help)
Do not know but GM has greatly reduced their rental fleet sales. I think Pontiac has taken the brunt of the rental sales.
According to this site, mid year registration for Buick:
21.4% of Lacrosses went to fleets
13.2% of Lucernes
6.3% of Enclaves
So after half of the year, Buick fleeted out 4500 Lacrosses, 4300 Lucernes and 1500 Enclaves. Double that and its about 21 thousand Buicks.
What's that about 15% fleet sales?*Make that 16.3%*
link title
MY2007, Buicks fleet totals were 19.6%
link title
But they were also peddling the Terraza Minivan and the Rainier SUV at this time too.