Ah yes!!! My cousin came by the house to let me drive his new (at the time) Porsche 911 Carrera S. WONDERFUL car, but yes, shameless on the option list !!!!
Very odd or maybe I have been away too long from pricing BMW's, but $500. for heated seats.
Funny you should mention that. The X5 35D I test drove Friday only had ONE option. The $500 heated seats. MSRP was $52XXX. I think it was stripped to use as a diesel demo. As fast as that X5 was with that engine. I can imagine in a small sedan it would run like a scalded ape. When it launches a 5225 lb SUV like it does I would think the small sedan would be over powered. It is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. The diesel X5 is lighter than the V8 gasser with a lot more torque. The diesel would have to cut into the V8 sales. For me it is a no brainer.
I read it in passing in some article about the BMW 335 D. aka 535 D. They didn't get much into the details. I assumed its launch is TBD. I guess I was not too surprised by the reference, since one of Silicon Valley's top BMW dealers just got stock on the day I put the first miles on it !!???
For those that think that gas is fast. This is an article from a recent magazine.
Aren't diesels slow?
How about this for an answer: I lost a race in the new 414-hp, V-8 M3 last week to a diesel. I pulled up to a red light next to my photographer's six-cylinder, automatic-transmission 530d station wagon. When the light turned green, I dumped the clutch from 2000 rpm and floored it. And the automatic diesel station wagon dusted my M3 off the line. I didn't catch up until 60 mph.
You dumped the clutch at 2000 rpm? I'm surprised it didn't just bog down. I like diesels as much as the next guy, but the BMW V8 in the M3 is not a low end torque monster...that thing likes rpms. If you were serious you'd have had it up at least 2x that rpm before dropping the hammer and you would have left the diesel for dead..
This program just came in today from Bimmer’s Headquarter that 335D’s price is off a few thousands starting April 1, 2009(sounds like April fool’s day). Too bad, I got my 335D with the specific options on 27th March. For a few days’ wait, I actually could have saved 3k for the car! As a diesel nut, I knew I couldn’t pass the awesome 35D engine. Except the PDC, I got all the options available, the car feels as light as Honda S 2000 with much faster, more stable acceleration, by comparing the 08 750Li I got, the 335Xi and 535Xi I drove before, for me the 335D is the keeper! I never feel so easy on the traffic by seating on the car seat, especially on the traffic lights. To many folks here, the D engines are for the dirty trucks only, and this is a good thing for the diesel engines lovers, and that is why Bimmer made the better offer to move the slow sale 335D. Again, I should have wait a few more days for such big buck saving.
I'm showing base MSRP at $43.9K on the BMW build your car app. Is that the old pricing or new? Using that price my trial build comes to $48,070 MSRP, including sport package, heated seats, sat radio, black on black leatherette -- it's a lot of money for a 3. However, I do think that if you have to have an automatic, the 335d is a more elemental, more satisfying drive than the 335i, even though it drops a few horses compared to the non-urea Euro spec version.
Yes, all your questions and calculations are just about the facts; in fact, I just called the dealershiph, DeSimone BMW of Mt. Laurel, here in south Jersey, asking them throwing me some bones for the new program just came in today, because the closeness of the dealing date, and they told me that nobody knew such program would come in April, the sales manger did give me the six hundred dollars' tires and wheels protection package to alleviate my pain.
Here are the impressions that are so obvious: 1) The exhaust tail pipes look still clean on both sides after 211 miles driving, by comparing, the left side pipe of 335xi, 535xi and 750Li will be dark after 50 miles on the road, the pipe on the right side always look cleaner on these three cars; I guess Bimmer designs the left side pipe to exhaust most the time, the 35D engine does on two sides evenly. 2) The IDrive is much better and easier to use on 09 models, by comparing the 18” performance RFT on the 335D, even with sport suspension on the chase, doesn’t feel as bumpy as the RFT on 07 335xi, and this is a big improvement. 3) The inside lay out from the instrument clusters to the fold back seats (the seats actually can fold flat, not like the 535xi’s which fold only up to 90%), the touch open and close comfort access system is a huge step forward by comparing the 08 750Li, just slightly touch on the front handles on middle to open and on the right end to close, instead of grappling to open and push the handle to close for the 7er. 4) The ground clearance is the matter which concerns me the most, I got bad taste from the S8’s 3.7” stupid low clearance, it got the scratches all over on the front chins after a few weeks on the road, the data from 09 April Car and Driver magazine says the ground clearance for 335D is 5.7, but I don’t think this is correct measurement, as I put 5” stick under the bottom, the lowest front I got 4.2 to 4.5, the good news is I haven’t seen any scratch under the front yet. As a diesel nut, I have been wishful, if the V10 in my Touareg TDI would be in the bays of A6 or A8, but the V10 TDI is heavy as hell. In a sense, the dream has come true for the 35D in a sedan form, still, the engine would serve better in 5er or 7er, by now, I am happy what I got the 335D, together with my 04 Passat TDI, I will keep it for a long while.
None of the 5 items that you say is so obvious /was obvious to me. I am glad BMW corrected your noted comparison faults, at least in this car anyway. It might be obvious to you, given your set of interests and experiences.
But I am glad you like it. I really liked it! I did 5 test rides, but did not test the 335i, 5 nor 7 series as a comparison. However I can't say I have more than 300 miles on the 335D total. My take is this is a tremendous road/cruising car ! It is also good that BMW is giving a better pricing structure starting with that mentioned April 09 program. It would appear even for BMW enthusiasts, the 3/4k diesel premium was an issue.
I keep hoping that BMWNA will see fit to bring over the 123d. The twin turbo four gets terrific fuel economy(@45 US mpg on the EU cycle) and goes from 0-60 in under seven seconds:
I'd love a 123d. I personally prefer a 120d, It's about a half second slower but you get in uptick in fuel economy for the loss in speed. Instead of 0-60 sub 7 and 40s on the highway you get 0-60 in 7.2-7.5 second range with MPG over 50 on the highway. Mid 40s combined.
Run circled around those poor commuter souls and get twice the gas mileage to boot. Sure I'd lose a race to a Ferrarri, or a high powered Corevette, but the money Id save sure buys a lot of diesel and tires :shades:
If they only brought the 123d over, Id happily pony up the cash. A bird in the hand and all.
I don't think we will see any 4 cylinder diesels from the other makers until the EU emissions match ours. Then it should be a flood gate opening. VW had to go through hoops to get theirs on the 50 state market. VW also has the advantage of Mexican factories that saves a lot on labor and transport. Soon to have a factory in TN. I think BMW is assembling at least the X5 Diesel here in the US. Both BMW and Mercedes have some great small diesel cars that would go over well here. I ran into a B class MB up in the mountains. The people were from Canada and said they loved the mileage on vacation. They were getting close to 50 MPG US. It was a cool little wagon.
BMW chooses not to import the real 1 Series models into the US purely for marketing reasons...and the lower power diesels they offer in the 3-Series in EU for eactly the same reason. They want to convey a premium image and don't want to sell anything that would appeal to a non-affluent buyer. Might offend the 7-Series buyer to have a mid-$20,000 car shopper in the same showroom with him.
Good thing about the recession is that it might force them to give up that sort of nonsense as their sales plummet.
Sure hope so. A mid-20's 1-Series hatch diesel would be a reasonable alternative to a Jetta TDI.
Yeah! I want the 5 door hatch like the one pictured. (preferably silver, black or white) 120d or 123d please. I saw a silver 120d in England for £12995, in 2006. The exchange rate at the time was roughly £1 = $1.60 so for $25,000 plus taxes and shipping. I could have had a silver 5-door 1 series diesel (Assuming they’d let me buy it and import it to the US).
Well, for the moment it looks like a pretty good marketing reason. If you scroll back to post #319 you will see that BMW is lowering the price on the 335D because of slow sales. They are very unlikely to go through the huge expense of certifying other diesel engines unless the US shows more willingness to buy them. Us diesel lovers have our work cut out for us; we have to get the word spread about the new engines.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I find the idea of luxury diesels somewhat contrary to American tastes and attitudes about diesel passenger cars. Seems to me the opposite should be true--that Americans would be far more likely to buy entry-level diesels than high-line cars.
Of course, nothing wrong with having a "flagship" diesel for prestige but this should be followed up with entry level models. Lexus never hurt Toyota after all.
I think if one puts it into context, this is a BMW thread. One would be hard pressed to call a BMW 335 I an "entry level" gasser!? It may indeed be an "entry level" BMW. However 44-49k might be pricey, even for BMW enthusiasts.
I have read in passing the twin turbo diesel is used in both the 335D and 535D (probably 2010 MY here, but already in Europe). This is not the duel duty of a wimpy power plant! One can check the specifications, but the 535 I has app 105 # ft of torque LESS (300 # ft vs 405 #ft) than its 335D and 535 D stable mates.
CCTDI: Would you recommend driving the 335d in Wisconsin during winter? We are moving up there, and I have been looking at the Audi A4 Quadro 2.0T and the 335xi. I don't like the run-flat tires on the 335xi for the central Wisconsin roads, and so we are leaning towards the Audi A4. I have always loved diesel engines, and when the 335d was first announced I knew I had to get one. But now that we are relocating to central Wisconsin, I don't know if it will be okay and wise to own the 335d. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated? Thanks.
There is a chance that Audi will bring the 2010 A4 Quattro wagon with TDI to the states. It is a crossover with a little higher clearance according to the article I read. It should get about the same MPG as the Jetta Sportwagen Diesel. That would get me to downsize. I wanted the X5 35D but do not want to deal with Urea.
Sorry, I haven’t gotten the chance to look the forum in these past few days. To answer your question about the 335D on the snow is an unknown one, I got the car on 27th of March, and I haven’t had a snow day here in South Jersey where I live, beside, I got an AWD 08 RX 400H, I would drive this car on the snowy days. With huge torque on the rear wheels, you got to be very careful to drive the 335D on the snow. I got 07 335xi with RFT, the car was Ok on the snow covered roads, as long as the snow is less than 5” inches, the RFT was quite bumpy, somehow, Bimmer made some progress on RFT on 09 models; the performance RFT on 335D with sport suspension is not as bumpy as the 07 model. The A4 AWD should be good on the snowy roads, but, with only 4.2 ground clearance on its bottom how comfortable would you feel to venture on heavy snow weather days? The forum right after yours is a smaller version of Audi Allroad- the A4 Allroad which is a good car for cold climate region like yours. I drove an 04 Allroad 4.2 for a while, I think that car on the picture is equipped with adjustable high suspension on the tap, the bottom of the car can be as high as an SUV, you ought to take a good look at such a vehicle, especially with the TDI.
Aside from ground clearance issues, if you put a decent set of snow tires on any RWD sedan equipped with traction control, you simply are not going to have trouble in snow. I have driven a '92 LS400 (big, heavy car) through mid-Michigan winters since 1994 and only got stuck once...and that was an end of the street snow pile up caused by snow plays coming through after a big snow storm. It is simply not an issue unless you get a huge snow fall and NOTING is going to get through short of a tall 4WD truck.
Thanks for the replies, CCTDI and NOPCBS. I would love an A4 Avant diesel, but there's no concrete evidence that Audi will bring it over. Some people have said that it may come in 2010. I really like the 335d. Do you think if I put a good set of snow tires on there that it will be okay with 400ft pound of torque going to the rear wheels, NOPCBS? We will be in mid-Wisconsin, about an hour south of Green Bay, so our driving conditions will be similar to yours, NOPCBS, in mid-Michigan. Thanks.
No problem because the traction control will control both the throttle and the brakes (via ABS) to prevent slippage. You can turn the traction control off, of course, if you want to slip and slide to your heart's content. Fun on an empty parking lot.
Snow (within reason - 12" of fresh snow and nothing is going to move) is no longer a serious issue for RWD cars equipped with traction control and decent tires.
Hey, I remember growing up in Chicago in the 60's/70's when all cars (except Beetles and a few Fiats) were nose-heavy RWD and most went through the winter with half-worn bias ply tires and we still made it through winter...most of the time. It was "sporty" at times, though.
I think FWD is highly over rated on snow. I had a 1970 & 76 Datsun PU with weight in back plus an extended Dodge Van all RWD that out performed both my 1973 Subaru FWD and my 1978 Honda Accord FWD in deep snow. My 1967 VW Bug outperformed them all in snow by far.
Let's not get carried away with the FWD bashing here, folks. Everything else being equal, the FWD car WILL do better on snow (by that I mean start moving and then keep going) than a RWD car. (OK, maybe not when you are going up steep hill, but your RWD car is not going to do well in that circumstance, either.)
The weight of the engine over the drive wheels helps a lot vs. a RWD car. That's why Beetles did well (plus their light weight, overall) in snow. Plus Beetles had skinny tires to keep the pounds per square inch of contact relatively high.
Where FWD cars have trouble is they tend to have low ground clearance, especially compared to trucks, SUV's, and even many RWD cars. The low ground clearance means they become plows when the snow gets just a little deep.
The combination of RWD plus traction control plus snow tires just about equals the combination of FWD plus traction cntrol plus decent all-season tires, in my experience. Both are darned good...until the snow gets very deep.
"The combination of RWD plus traction control plus snow tires just about equals the combination of FWD plus traction cntrol plus decent all-season tires, in my experience."
I disagree. I think the RWD with dedicated snow tires will beat the FWD with all-season tires every time.
I also frequently turn traction/stability control off.
I've found that in extreme conditions, a FWD car shod with snow tires and driven backwards up a hill is almost unbeatable by anything shy of an AWD vehicle.
The combination of RWD plus traction control plus snow tires just about equals the combination of FWD plus traction cntrol plus decent all-season tires, in my experience. Both are darned good...until the snow gets very deep.
Most of my driving in snow included rather steep hills. None had traction control at that time. The 73 Subaru would start bouncing in about 3 inches of snow on the slightest hill. Then pop out of gear. Very frustrating car. The 78 Accord would drift around and very difficult to keep going straight. My partners Saab at the time was very good. So I just wrote it off as poor Japanese engineering. Not to mention the horrible dealers involved.
Experience does play a big role. I did a lot of off roading prior to moving to Alaska. I was very aware of how easy it is to get stuck even with a 4X4. We also ran 4 studded tires during the 1970s & 80s, all winter long. I did not own a 4WD in Alaska until 1988.
I did not test drive the 335D when I was trying out the X5 diesel. Just not my cup of tea. I would say from what friends have told me RWD BMWs handle very well on ice which is the most dangerous.
I would think any engine that gives lots of torque at very low RPMs would be great for snow, as you could lug it around without having to shift too often or rev high to get off the line. Just ease out the clutch at idle and putt off into the snow!
"Just ease out the clutch at idle and putt off into the snow! "
This might not be true in the US market's BMW 335 D's case as it currently only comes in 6 speed automatic.
However on those diesels with 6 speed manuals, that is truly one of the well kept secrets. The TREMENDOUS torque at low rpms, literally make driving a manual effortless and also since one can engage the clutch at almost stall rpms, this cuts down the wear considerably. (It helps of course if one knows this and applies the knowledge accordingly.)
Comments
Funny you should mention that. The X5 35D I test drove Friday only had ONE option. The $500 heated seats. MSRP was $52XXX. I think it was stripped to use as a diesel demo. As fast as that X5 was with that engine. I can imagine in a small sedan it would run like a scalded ape. When it launches a 5225 lb SUV like it does I would think the small sedan would be over powered. It is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. The diesel X5 is lighter than the V8 gasser with a lot more torque. The diesel would have to cut into the V8 sales. For me it is a no brainer.
Aren't diesels slow?
How about this for an answer: I lost a race in the new 414-hp, V-8 M3 last week to a diesel. I pulled up to a red light next to my photographer's six-cylinder, automatic-transmission 530d station wagon. When the light turned green, I dumped the clutch from 2000 rpm and floored it. And the automatic diesel station wagon dusted my M3 off the line. I didn't catch up until 60 mph.
Diesel revolution
You likely eat food that has some form of animal (or human) fertilizer used during some stage of its growth. And that's un-purified.
And 2 YEARS? Thats about 8 oil changes for me. Sooo not a big deal.
Does anyone know if 335d's extended maint. or warranty cost the same as 335i?
With just sport pack and cold weather pack we are at $48,000.
Insane.
$43.9K base is the original & only price I have seen.
Any one else see anything else \ lower?
Thanks,
- Ray
Might be tempted.........
Here are the impressions that are so obvious:
1) The exhaust tail pipes look still clean on both sides after 211 miles driving, by comparing, the left side pipe of 335xi, 535xi and 750Li will be dark after 50 miles on the road, the pipe on the right side always look cleaner on these three cars; I guess Bimmer designs the left side pipe to exhaust most the time, the 35D engine does on two sides evenly.
2) The IDrive is much better and easier to use on 09 models, by comparing the 18” performance RFT on the 335D, even with sport suspension on the chase, doesn’t feel as bumpy as the RFT on 07 335xi, and this is a big improvement.
3) The inside lay out from the instrument clusters to the fold back seats (the seats actually can fold flat, not like the 535xi’s which fold only up to 90%), the touch open and close comfort access system is a huge step forward by comparing the 08 750Li, just slightly touch on the front handles on middle to open and on the right end to close, instead of grappling to open and push the handle to close for the 7er.
4) The ground clearance is the matter which concerns me the most, I got bad taste from the S8’s 3.7” stupid low clearance, it got the scratches all over on the front chins after a few weeks on the road, the data from 09 April Car and Driver magazine says the ground clearance for 335D is 5.7, but I don’t think this is correct measurement, as I put 5” stick under the bottom, the lowest front I got 4.2 to 4.5, the good news is I haven’t seen any scratch under the front yet.
As a diesel nut, I have been wishful, if the V10 in my Touareg TDI would be in the bays of A6 or A8, but the V10 TDI is heavy as hell. In a sense, the dream has come true for the 35D in a sedan form, still, the engine would serve better in 5er or 7er, by now, I am happy what I got the 335D, together with my 04 Passat TDI, I will keep it for a long while.
But I am glad you like it. I really liked it! I did 5 test rides, but did not test the 335i, 5 nor 7 series as a comparison. However I can't say I have more than 300 miles on the 335D total. My take is this is a tremendous road/cruising car ! It is also good that BMW is giving a better pricing structure starting with that mentioned April 09 program. It would appear even for BMW enthusiasts, the 3/4k diesel premium was an issue.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Run circled around those poor commuter souls and get twice the gas mileage to boot. Sure I'd lose a race to a Ferrarri, or a high powered Corevette, but the money Id save sure buys a lot of diesel and tires :shades:
If they only brought the 123d over, Id happily pony up the cash. A bird in the hand and all.
Good thing about the recession is that it might force them to give up that sort of nonsense as their sales plummet.
Sure hope so. A mid-20's 1-Series hatch diesel would be a reasonable alternative to a Jetta TDI.
It’s a nice dream.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Of course, nothing wrong with having a "flagship" diesel for prestige but this should be followed up with entry level models. Lexus never hurt Toyota after all.
I have read in passing the twin turbo diesel is used in both the 335D and 535D (probably 2010 MY here, but already in Europe). This is not the duel duty of a wimpy power plant! One can check the specifications, but the 535 I has app 105 # ft of torque LESS (300 # ft vs 405 #ft) than its 335D and 535 D stable mates.
Regards,
Jose
Snow (within reason - 12" of fresh snow and nothing is going to move) is no longer a serious issue for RWD cars equipped with traction control and decent tires.
Hey, I remember growing up in Chicago in the 60's/70's when all cars (except Beetles and a few Fiats) were nose-heavy RWD and most went through the winter with half-worn bias ply tires and we still made it through winter...most of the time. It was "sporty" at times, though.
Nowadays? Piece of cake.
Don't worry about it. You will do fine.
- Geo
A heavy RWD car with 4 snow tires and a good driver can be very effective in snow, as long as it isn't too deep of course.
The weight of the engine over the drive wheels helps a lot vs. a RWD car. That's why Beetles did well (plus their light weight, overall) in snow. Plus Beetles had skinny tires to keep the pounds per square inch of contact relatively high.
Where FWD cars have trouble is they tend to have low ground clearance, especially compared to trucks, SUV's, and even many RWD cars. The low ground clearance means they become plows when the snow gets just a little deep.
The combination of RWD plus traction control plus snow tires just about equals the combination of FWD plus traction cntrol plus decent all-season tires, in my experience. Both are darned good...until the snow gets very deep.
- Geo
I disagree. I think the RWD with dedicated snow tires will beat the FWD with all-season tires every time.
I also frequently turn traction/stability control off.
Best regards,
Shipo
Most of my driving in snow included rather steep hills. None had traction control at that time. The 73 Subaru would start bouncing in about 3 inches of snow on the slightest hill. Then pop out of gear. Very frustrating car. The 78 Accord would drift around and very difficult to keep going straight. My partners Saab at the time was very good. So I just wrote it off as poor Japanese engineering. Not to mention the horrible dealers involved.
I'd feel fully confident in a 335D in heavy snow conditions and wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere. But I'd have 4 snows on it.
I did not test drive the 335D when I was trying out the X5 diesel. Just not my cup of tea. I would say from what friends have told me RWD BMWs handle very well on ice which is the most dangerous.
This might not be true in the US market's BMW 335 D's case as it currently only comes in 6 speed automatic.
However on those diesels with 6 speed manuals, that is truly one of the well kept secrets. The TREMENDOUS torque at low rpms, literally make driving a manual effortless and also since one can engage the clutch at almost stall rpms, this cuts down the wear considerably. (It helps of course if one knows this and applies the knowledge accordingly.)