Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

stever

Toyota has seven manufacturing plants in the US, eight if you count the Camry that's being built in the Subaru factory in Indiana until production moves back to Kentucky next August.

If you're referring to NUMMI, that closed in '10 and is occupied by Tesla (at least partially). All per wiki.

Don't know of an empty one. I'm sure Tupelo would love to build Prii there though.

carboy21

Could be worse, one can look at Air Canuckistan which gets just as many complaints, if not more. Comparing any of the low cost - marginal quality - low amenity (do people really expect to be coddled on a $270 ATL-SEA RT?) US carriers (who can survive on domestic routes where the competition won't compete) to the state-sponsored Middle Eastern carriers who don't need to turn anything close to a profit as they can be subsidized by terrorist supporting states,

Pretty strong slanderous allegations from you. So you are an employee of one of the United/Delta/ American airlines ??
Don't use Edmunds forums to propagate your bigotry.
Why dont you get me a $270 atl-sea return ticket on these big three or it is just another wild boast on your part ?

stever

Lots of cheap flights out there - just grabbed a screenshot from Orbitz. I'm sure the TSA fees and taxes will add to the price.

My sister is a UAL retiree. Pretty lousy airline in my experience.

fintail

What slander? Please be specific, or don't accuse, thanks

Why would you want to fly from Seattle to Atlanta? Seems a bit out of your way. I used the example because I took the trip. I could also use the $350 SEA-JFK RT or the $275 SEA-MCO return, or a few SEA-LAX or LAS returns for ~$200 apiece. At those prices, I expect nothing but a basic experience, and don't whine when I get it. Others want their rear end kissed and a full meal with a reclining bed. The careful shopper can find the deals. Never flown United or American, but Delta and Alaska have been fine to me.

Bigotry, you're a funny guy. Tell me more about those "thugs", how the evils of the world come from unions (you know VW and other competitors who have schooled the US and purchased Britain are heavily unionized, right?), and how the world is going to boycott the US. I won't hold my breath.

carboy21 said:

Pretty strong slanderous allegations from you. So you are an employee of one of the United/Delta/ American airlines ??
Don't use Edmunds forums to propagate your bigotry.
Why dont you get me a $270 atl-sea return ticket on these big three or it is just another wild boast on your part ?

stever

Embattled German auto giant Volkswagen is abandoning its ambition to become the world's biggest carmaker ahead of Japanese rival Toyota, its new chief executive said in a magazine interview published Monday.

"For me, this obsession with unit sales and the ambition to constantly reach new records makes no sense, " CEO Matthias Mueller told the weekly WirtschaftsWoche in an interview.

Volkswagen abandons ambition to beat Toyoto to become world's biggest carmaker (ibnlive.com)

fintail

It's all about sending the pollution to someone elses backyard. The problem may be as much or more in the production than the laws.

gagrice said:

I wonder why Toyota never did as promised with building the Prius here. My guess is too many parts that cannot be built with our environmental laws. They still have that empty plant?

Made-in-America Prius fades into the future

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130610/OEM01/306109991/made-in-america-prius-fades-into-the-future

Mr_Shiftright

If anything, our environmental laws need to be tougher yet. As long as the price of things does not reflect the environmental damage done to acquire those things, then there is no capital available for restoration and repair. What we have then is basically an end game where nobody wins. Automakers have not traditionally been very adept at long-term planning for their own futures. California had to teach them in 1966.

berri

American really doesn't seem much better than United either. I wonder if that is part of O'Hare's problems these days?

Mr_Shiftright

I think I mentioned that it's my sincere suspicion that this is their new business model: To make everything as stripped down and basic as possible for you , and then SELL you various ways to get out of it . It's the airlines version of the autombile options list---an endless array of add-ons that can add another 25% to the ticket.

stever

VW is going the Honda model it sounds like. Fewer options and just a few packages to pick from. Object? To save VW money.

>As long as the price of things does not reflect the environmental damage done to acquire those things, then there is no capital available for restoration and repair.

Ah, like those abandoned gold mines the EPA is trying to clean up?

Ford and Google are set to make an interesting announcement. The next question is who will Apple tie up with? And after Bezos showed up Elon with a controlled rocket landing first, maybe he'll get in the game too.

"Google just found a major partner for its self-driving car program. A report from Yahoo Autos claims that, during CES, Ford will announce a joint venture between it and Google to build self-driving cars. The report describes the partnership as a step toward "a new business of automated ride sharing."

Google and Ford reportedly team up to build self-driving cars (arstechnica.com)

Mr_Shiftright

Fewer options on the entry level and more on the LUX level, where the profits really are. That makes sense.

Well self-driving cars, at least in their current manifestation, are not much different from a NYC subway ride, and we all know how much fun that is.

My limited experience with collision avoidance and lane-assist and blindspot assist has been incredibly annoying half the time.

This technology seems to be in the Google Glass phase at the moment.

Perhaps it will get a lot better....it better get better.

texases

The lawyers can't wait for self-driving cars, according to Bloomberg:

"Imagine a robot car with no one behind the wheel hitting another driverless car. Who’s at fault?

The answer: No one knows. But plaintiff’s lawyers are salivating at the prospects for big paydays from such accidents. If computers routinely crash, they say, then so will cars operated by them. And with no one behind the wheel, lawyers say they can go after almost anyone even remotely involved.

“You’re going to get a whole host of new defendants,” said Kevin Dean, who is suing General Motors Co. over its faulty ignition switches and Takata Corp. over air-bag failures. “Computer programmers, computer companies, designers of algorithms, Google, mapping companies, even states. It’s going to be very fertile ground for lawyers.”"

Mr_Shiftright

They'll have to create some special immunity perhaps, or special form of insurance. It could turn out to be a very expensive form of transportation.

texases

Another article talked about how self driving cars aren't aggressive enough. I can see that - imagine driving where half the cars obeyed all the rules to the letter....arghhhh...

Mr_Shiftright

It might end being safe, but it's sure going to be a heavy dose of mind-numbing boredom.

fintail

Prius will be the perfect autonomous car. You don't really want to drive it anyway, so just let it do the work.

berri

China, Russia and Iran will hack them and have some fun

slorenzen

Never understood the whole premise of a self-driving car. What not just call a cab?

stever

Cabbies won't stop for a lot of people, won't go to certain addresses, won't take you to certain destinations (all in spite of the regs supposedly preventing such behavior).

And lots of people would rather check themselves out at the grocer or use an ATM than have to deal with a human being.

Lots of small towns don't have cabs and those doctor ride vans are often slow and often require a reservation a day or two before your doc appointment.

And if I'm going to LA and want to play on my tablet on I-10 and let the car worry about driving, that'll be a lot better than having to coordinate with a cabbie's schedule, assuming I could afford one anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

Given what people do in the back of taxis, I can only imagine what would happen to self-driving cars. I hope they all have tiled interiors.

gagrice

slorenzen said:

Never understood the whole premise of a self-driving car. What not just call a cab?

Call me old fashioned, I don't even like riding with another person driving. Especially a cab or shuttle driver. I will leave the hands free cars to those with a death wish.

hpmctorque

Okay, you're old fashioned but, then, so am I.

gagrice

The only time my wife drives is on those long Interstate stretches during the middle of the day. That puts me to sleep. She is a good driver, just not at night. She does like driving the Touareg a lot more than her Lexus. Reminds her of her old Porsche days. Not that mushy feeling of the LS400.

gagrice

For all you driver less car folks, Merry Christmas.

stever

I think we all saw this one coming.

"Toyota Motor Corp. sold more cars than Volkswagen AG for the fifth consecutive month in November, putting the Japanese firm on track to remain the world's top-selling automaker in 2015 as sales at the German maker suffer following a diesel emissions scandal."

Toyota tops global car sales in November, outsells VW for fifth month (phillyvoice.com)

gagrice

Not to worry, VW already reached their goal last year. As a stock holder I would rather VW focus on profit and quality. Let Toyota and GM build the low profit appliances for the masses. My VW stock is up $8 per share. Best stock performance this year in my portfolio. Only owned it since the first of Oct.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but YTD it's off 27%. You bought smart.

berri

When the US Dollar drops in value down the road, he'll get a currency exchange bump as well.

gagrice

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah but YTD it's off 27%. You bought smart.

I am not one to kick someone when they are down or turn away from buying low and selling high. I am kind of hoping it goes all the way back up in the $50s I just wish I had bought more than 500 shares.

berri

As long as Audi doesn't get scarred by it all you should be alright providing there isn't a big recession type event and you've got patience along with a calm investing demeanor.

carboy21

gagrice said:

Not to worry, VW already reached their goal last year. As a stock holder I would rather VW focus on profit and quality. Let Toyota and GM build the low profit appliances for the masses. My VW stock is up $8 per share. Best stock performance this year in my portfolio. Only owned it since the first of Oct.

Jetta and Golf are appliances

gagrice

Jetta and Golf are appliances

Yes but a lot more fun to drive than a CorVic. Last fun car I drove from Honda was a CRX. The Jetta is more solid and quiet than an Accord.

carboy21

The Jetta is more solid and quiet than an Accord.

Many times it is the OEM tires that make the difference in road noise.

gagrice

I would expect Honda to put tires that enhanced the driving experience on their Accords. It was a rental car so not top of the line. Worst part was Budget gave me an Altima at the airport. Then got a hold of me that evening to come exchange it. Seems they gave me a car they sold. The Altima we really liked. And the Accord we got was just not as nice. Not to mention it was near new and the fob would not unlock the doors. It was the only full sized car they had. So we were stuck with it for 2 weeks. yuck. Probably why they have lost market share to Toyota and Hyundai. We rented a Camry a few years before that in British Columbia and it was a nice car.

fintail

You can get SE level Camrys in rental fleets, but the Accords in fleets (I think they are all gone now) were indeed base model. Civics pop up in fleets now and then, but that's about it for Honda.

Lots of rentals on the road here this time of year - lots of Toyota, Nissan, and Korean cars - people should stop calling Big 2.5 cars fleet queens, these other brands are just as addicted to it.

berri

Every recent Honda and absolutely every Toyota I bought came with cheapo oem tires. Got to factor new tires by 25K when you consider price comparisons I suppose.

PF_Flyer

berri said:

Every recent Honda and absolutely every Toyota I bought came with cheapo oem tires. Got to factor new tires by 25K when you consider price comparisons I suppose.

25K max. In 14 vehicles since 1979, I've never gotten more than that out of a set of OEM tires. My replacements routinely get me 50K +

slorenzen

PF_Flyer said:

berri said:

Every recent Honda and absolutely every Toyota I bought came with cheapo oem tires. Got to factor new tires by 25K when you consider price comparisons I suppose.

25K max. In 14 vehicles since 1979, I've never gotten more than that out of a set of OEM tires. My replacements routinely get me 50K +

When we bought the wife's Accord EX-V6 in 2004, it came with Michelins that we got 50K out of. Every other car I've bought came with tires I would never have selected.

gagrice

Our $57k 2007 Sequoia Limited came with the cheapest Dumlop AT20 tires you can imagine. They were noisy and ready for replacement at 25k miles. I did not realize how poor they were until I put on a new set of Michelin Tires. Still was a gas hog, but much quieter on the road.

Sounds like Honda went down hill by the time I rented a 2010 Accord.

carboy21

Honda Civic and Odyssey come with Michelins. I don't know about Accord , CRV and Pilot.

Rental fleets are usually supplied with cheap tires

berri

I always got lousy Bridgestone's on my Honda's. Maybe a step up from the Toyo's on the Toyota's. I'd never consider either brand as replacements.

gagrice

berri said:

I always got lousy Bridgestone's on my Honda's. Maybe a step up from the Toyo's on the Toyota's. I'd never consider either brand as replacements.

Very interesting. Those are the only two brands of tire that would hold up in the harsh weather and roads in the Arctic. Our company wanted Goodyear tires and one season the gravel roads and they were gone. There was only one company selling tires in Prudhoe Bay and they would order anything you wanted. They only stocked Toyo and Bridgestones. I have had my best service out of Michelin and Bridgestone. I will say the Firestone tires that came on my 1998/99 Suburban did very well.

carboy21

berri said:

I always got lousy Bridgestone's on my Honda's. Maybe a step up from the Toyo's on the Toyota's. I'd never consider either brand as replacements.

Bridgestone Turanza and Potenza are good.

berri

Perhaps, but I think I'll stick with Michelin's. I'm not risking those Bridgestone lines being cheapened up at some point.

stever

The other shoe has dropped.

"The Justice Department challenged the German automaker Volkswagen in federal court Monday, saying that the company installed illegal devices in nearly 600,000 diesel engine systems to impair emissions controls, that way increasing harmful air pollution.

But at least for now, federal prosecutors have stopped short of criminal charges and did not single out individual executives."

VW Sued by U.S. in Diesel Emissions Scandal (NY Times)

(Thanks @imidazol97 for the news alert)

gagrice

I sure find that lawsuit disingenuous. Filing it in the heart of enemy territory. A state that HATES VW. Are they hoping a Detroit Grand Jury will be less fair or what? Should be filed where their plant is in TN.

stever

Seems like it was going to boil down to a couple of judges who had experience managing "big" cases. The other one was in California or DC I think.

Ah, never mind, I'm thinking of the consumer cases - that one also landed in Detroit. (thedetroitbureau.com)

fintail

Sketchy court system? In America? Nah.

I wonder if this will be another case where the judge retires right after the verdict, just like the coward in TX.

berri

One thing is almost certain, any verdict judgments will go to the government, not the directly affected owners

Mr_Shiftright

It's not the government's job to make the owner's whole.