2000-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

vcjumper · September 2003

The agreement with honda was not for the 3.0L v6 in the accord. Ofcourse back when the trade made news it was a 200hp kind of gutless engine and not a 240hp on regular fuel gem.

Now GM makes a 3.6L OHC engine that basically negates the need for the Honda 3.5L.

dindak · September 2003

vcjumper : Honda engine deal is for Saturn VUEs only and was in fact a swap for transmissions. You won't ever see one in a Bu. The 3.5L were suppose to be for an extended VUE but that never got off the drawing board so it just goes into the regular V6 VUEs.

according : All Chevy needs to do is add a super charger and upgrade tires, suspension and interior a bit for a SS package. It would sell small numbers, much like the Impala SS will.

logic1 · September 2003

Honda cannot figure out how to sell enough diesels in Europe to make the GM diesel for Honda V6 numbers work.

dindak · September 2003

It's funny, Honda has such a big name in North America but in Europe people just don't see them the same way. I'm sure Saturn will sell all 50K of the V6 VUEs this year no problem.

pat · September 2003

Talk about the Malibu, folks...

garyw · September 2003

How did it drive?
> I liked it lot. Very CamCordish. The Accord is a tighter vehicle but it was defintely better than the Camry. IMO, the Camry has gone downhill. The interior, even the SE, is awkward at best. The vehicle drives like a mid-size sedan should...minimal roll and does everything you ask with ease. Just don't expect it to drive like a sports sedan. Would love to see an SS version to tighten it up.

Several other tall members (6'2" here also) noted that with the seat all the way back, rear seat legroom behind it is very tight. Confused about the discrepancy.
> Again, I am all leg and am the acid test in any car. Easily two adults will be comfortable. Three kids no problem.

Other notes:

I totally agree with you about the black side mirrors, which are few and far between these days, but it wouldn't break a purchase decision. I think the LS should have body-colored mirrors also.
> All personal opinion. I would buy black because its what I like. If bought any other color then I would paint them. Bottom line is that this was just an obvious money saving decision on GM's part. Given the competiton and the fact they built this car to go head on with CamCords it is an inexcusable decision.

Pricing. I agree that Chevy overpriced. Since there's a $1,000 rebate already (and it's not "officially" on sale until next week), I (and several others of us) are hoping that that creeps up even more.
> If I were the marketing team at GM I would have fought to undercut CamCords at MSRP by about $1500. Especially knowing you are going to have rebate the product on day one. Marketing 101 when you are the underdog.

LS vs. LT: Be a bit careful here. The LS custom cloth seats are what we've trademarked "Uglycloth" (it's pretty bad, at least in neutral (beige)). I was worried that the suede couldn't hold up to a dog occasionally. That I'll have to decide for myself.
> Not a fan of suede either. But it looked and feels nice. Hey, the IS300 has it...and give them credit for trying to upscale the look.

Now go drive the car and gives us your impression!!

deerlake7 · September 2003

I'm in the process of buying my son a new car and drove 2 '04 Malibus. I was exceptionally disappointed in the build quality. Both vehicles had multiple loud rattles, one had a squeeky front end and the other felt like the brake rotors were warpped (the whole car shook when you hit the brakes on the highway). For those of you who've driven '04's, did you find any of these issues?

dindak · September 2003

Not sure what you drove, but all around people have been raving about the 04 build quality. Are you sure it wasn't an 03? Have not heard of any of the things you mentioned before.

wpbharry · September 2003

Just got back a while ago from being out all day and guess who left a message on my machine. My dealer finally scored their first '04. It's a silver/grey suede/leather LT with nothing extra on it. Sounded like a sales call, so I'm glad I wasn't in. But after my investigative trip up there 2 1/2 weeks ago, I knew they'd call as soon as one came in. Unlike some others, at least I didn't have to smudge up the showroom windows with my nose prints on several occasions. ;-)

Haven't decided if I'll trek up there on Friday (can't tomorrow) or wait until some more come in. The one they have isn't really what I was hoping for, and since they only have one, I doubt it'll be available for test drives. At least I know that more are on the way soon. Other dealers near me have as many as 10, but as I said before, I'm more comfortable on familiar ground.

But I'll likely go have a look-see anyway, since I'll also be due for an oil change there in another 3-4 weeks.

garyw · September 2003

None during my test.

regfootball · September 2003

Not sure why a 3.9 litre version, or a '3 valve OHV with "horizontal rocker arms"' or a supercharged version would be needed for the SS when there is a perfectly useful powertrain with the perfect character sitting already developed and ready to go in the form of 3.2 and 3.6l global v6's from either the Vectra or CTS (could be offered without vvt if needed to differentiate).

Or even a turbocharged or supercharged ecotec and manual transmission might be fun instead of a huge cast iron block minivan engine weighing down the front end.

Of course, all you guys would be quite happy to know the base v6 is available for the masses. And that's totally ok.

ehaase · September 2003

GM is already developing a 3.9L OHV that will eventually replace the 3800 in many applications.
This is probably the engine that will go into the Malibu SS.

The 3.6L DOHC is for Buick and Cadillac only. There may be a 3.2L DOHC for Pontiac, but GM has not confirmed that.

wpbharry · September 2003

To add to ehaase's post, GM is calling the OHV engine lineup "high value", and it can be designed up to 3.9L. (Makes me wonder how much of the 3.5 has been reworked; maybe more than we think; let's hope).

The OHC lineup is called "high feature", and is primarily destined for the Buicks and Caddys.

GM plans on 75-80% of its engines in the near future to be OHV, and 20-25% to be OHC. I'm also beginning to wonder if the G6 will even get an OHC (ecotec aside, which, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't been confirmed yet as going into the G6 at all, but I'll bet it will).

ron_m · September 2003

That's really too bad that both of those brand new '04 cars had that many problems already. I'm not going to say that it's just not possible--because I know it can happen with ANY make of vehicle.

Ron M.

explorerx4 · September 2003

but malibu ss doesn't mean v6 fwd to me.
call it something else.
i follow this board because my mom bought an 03 malibu. it seems like a pretty good car and value to me. prior to this car, she bought a (as in one) new chrysler(?) product every 10 years; like clockwork since '64.

dindak · September 2003

The G6 gets the 3.5L. GM said so in their press release. I believe a super charged version will be available at a GT or Sport model.

logic1 · September 2003

But Reg, if you put a varient of the the new 3.6 in the 'Bu, how is it any different from the Pontiac G6?

If GM makes an SS 'Bu that is only different in the skin than the G6, you may be happy, but a lot of other people (and you may join in if you do not think we are watching) will say GM is guilty of badge engineering.

Chevy appears to be aiming for value with the Vette and some heritage machines for good measure. Packing a potent regularly aspirated OHV V6 is one way to do that.

Bringing as many of the turbo charged Saab 4s here as possible is a nice idea. But would middle and small town America (and middle and small town Canada, for that matter) go for it? I am not so sure.

wpbharry · September 2003

dindak: I know, thanks to you, we both saw the GM press release about the Malibu's 3.5L going into the G6, and we were both a bit disappointed. BUT, that doesn't mean that the ecotec won't be going into the base versions of it. The 3.5 might be the higher-end engine, as in the Malibu. I don't recall the press release saying anything about the 3.5 being the base engine, do you? I just can't even imagine the G6 being only V-6. We've discussed the Malibu and its lack of a manual trannie, but the G6 surely must get one. But I don't think GM has a 3.5/manual ready (or is even working on it).

The best argument I've heard is that any possible SS version of the Malibu or Maxx would get a larger OHV engine in the High Value family.

reg & logic: GM just hasn't had a good track record in bringing Euro engines over here (witness Catera and L-Series; no I can't explain why the 3.2 all of a sudden seems to work in the CTS), and I'll bet they're trying at all costs to avoid it. European automobiles, for some reason (like culture/taste and gasoline price variances), are just too different from US autos to take an engine out of a Euro auto and plop it in a US auto again with any reasonable degree of certainty re: reliability. As an aside, I'm cringing a bit about the new Pontiac GTO (off subject, I'm aware, but it's an example to further the point). It's the reverse (well, Australian with US engine), and I'm not expecting great reliability for that model either. Possibly the same with the Honda engine going into the '04 VUE. Scary.

wpbharry · September 2003

Ya know, if GM can easily supercharge the 3800 V-6, why can't it supercharge the "new" 3500 V-6? Plop THAT in the G6 "GT", two quick shakes of a rabbit's tail, and "Introducing the Malibu and/or Maxx SS".

I don't think GM is the least bit concerned about engine overlap between the G6 and Malibu (or for that matter the eventual L-Series replacement).

Unfortunately, under this scenario, anyone's hopes of an SS/manual combo basically just flew out the window.

I'll BET that's what they're up to.

Time to hit the hay.

regfootball · September 2003

"But Reg, if you put a variant of the the new 3.6 in the 'Bu, how is it any different from the Pontiac G6?"

They appear to be different enough in character. Much like the way no one would confuse a Grand Prix and an Intrigue and those two cars SHOULD have shared powertrains. The valid criticism of GM for badge engineering was for cars like the late 80's Grand Am/Calais/Somerset. The cars had so much in common and visually could not be told apart. That G6 spy photos is quite distinguishable from the 04 Malibu.

Another example I would throw out here is that Nissan uses its excellent v6 in many Nissan and Infiniti applications and their products all remain distinct and have different levels of tune.

"Bringing as many of the turbo charged Saab 4s here as possible is a nice idea. But would middle and small town America (and middle and small town Canada, for that matter) go for it? I am not so sure."

To that I would respond, GM needs to stop selling to the same 27% of consumers. GM's big appeal is almost entirely blue collar and midwest and honestly they have yet to build any vehicles that appeal to any new groups of buyers. With all of GM's divisions and cars, you'd think at least one of their non-luxury vehicles would have appeal to the same group that buys the import names.

They have been trying to tout the Malibu in advertising and press as that car but in reality doesn't make any overtures in the direction of the non-midwest/blue collar crowd to appeal to anyone else besides its typical customer base.

So for a car like Malibu to move two steps ahead, they maybe should have considered taking a step back and trying to build a car that the midwesterners don't want.

Its a totally valid idea, considering

-the midwest is certainly not the cultural and ideological mecca of the US, and the ultra conservative nature of midwest consumers is ultimately not the current pulse of the trending markets.

-not a lot of cars are sold in the midwest in comparison to California and the east coast.

-midwesterners are so strong in GM 'following' that just about anything with a GM badge will sell on it anyways. Even if they took Ladas or Yugos and rebadged them as Chevy Chevettes you can always get a midwesterner to buy it. In other words, no matter what chevy throws a bow tie on, a GM fan will always buy it because that's the badge on it. Midwesterners are tight with their money, too and that's where the whole incentives thing nabs them. Since 9/11 GM is the undoubted master of incentives and they have made a science about how to get people to buy the badge because eveyone gets a great deal on it. Not as much attention is paid to the dynamic features of the car, the refinement, anything else.

Its new, and its a DEAL.

So Chevy does want to avoid that with the Mailbu and the Epsilon chassis is a good start. The Malibu should do well with GM's typical customer base but I'm guessing it really won't get too many conquest sales because it just doesn't go far enough in the anti-GM direction.

The styling is the same

Some of the plastics quality is the same

The engine is the same and not 'high tech' like import buyers like. They like the sound and feel of the 'high feature' engines and no amount of corporate press releases about the newest revisions to the OHV line will convince them otherwise. Its more of a representation of standing still in time. You've got to understand that as vehemently dedicated as you are to pushrods being ok, the group of buyers they say they want to conquest feels opposite.

So the bu is most likely improved a lot over the 03. But there are too many overt qualities about it that are unchanged to suggest that the new car is anything besides what the old car was. A pleasant, stodgy looking midwestern cruiser with a torquey and 'simple', but not entirely 'value added' powertrain. Much of Honda's cult appeal that swelled to the market force to be reakoned with that they are today has to do with the fact that they built incredible (mostly 4 cylinder) engines that had a noticeable excellence in comparison to the competition. That reputation is what still drives many Honda sales today.

"GM just hasn't had a good track record in bringing Euro engines over here (witness Catera and L-Series; no I can't explain why the 3.2 all of a sudden seems to work in the CTS), and I'll bet they're trying at all costs to avoid it. European automobiles, for some reason (like culture/taste and gasoline price variances), are just too different from US autos to take an engine out of a Euro auto and plop it in a US auto again with any reasonable degree of certainty re: reliability."

Don't forget harry that GM's own press releases tout the new 'high feature' engines as global powertrains that are world developed and if they were AT ALL concerned about reliability, why would they put a variant of it in a Cadillac?

By the way, did anyone read the review of the Chevy Epica/Suzuki Verona on the edmunds reviews page? Pretty darn good review. Aside from a power shortage, it makes you wonder which car is the better car. The Malibu or Verona? It all goes back to the same pot, but the Verona is more graceful looking and almost looks to be even a much better value. The one thing the Verona does not have is an extra litre of displacement. But in the pictures the materials on the interior seems to be more attractive than the Malibu. GM wins either way but it makes me wonder if the new Epica wouldn't be a bigger hit across the entire USA (if it had a 3.5 litre in line six it would project out to 217hp and a straight six is smoother than a v6). And did i mention this thousands cheaper Verona has OHC too.

Maybe the next Malibu will end up being sourced from Daewoo and Korea if their efforts are as good as the Edmunds review says of the Verona. After all the Equinox mills are coming from China anyways. But I suggest, maybe this is the direction Malibu SHOULD have gone.

Some day car will be like computers. All interchangable parts anyways.

johnclineii · September 2003

a. I have never seen such condescending snobbery and stereotyping of people based on geographic location in my life. You really are narrowminded and need to get out more if you really believe much of that long missive above.

b. I do agree GM should have changed the Malibu name. They probably should have done this while still making a VERY few of the old Malibus available for retail sale. Why on earth they didn't do this, who knows?

c. I also think the Malibus does NOT represent GM's best efforts at the price level for the intended market. Instead, it held back, so as to let the G6 take some of the limelight, even though it isn't available yet, and in spite of the fact that it is not true that GM customers only have other GM makes to consider...some WILL leave for Toyota and the like who otherwise would have stayed. This badge marketing is killing GM. They need to quit worrying about protecting the internal competition from themselves. They do NOT have a 60 percent plus marketshare anymore.

wpbharry · September 2003

Several things:

reg (aside from the Midwesterner focus, which I'll say a bit about in a minute), intelligent post. However, the High Feature engines, as has been said recently, aren't headed for the lower GM brands (Chevy and Pontiac), at least at the moment. What the heck is a Chevy Epica (Canadian version of the Suzuki Verona??); that's a new one on me. You should see the advertising blitz for the Verona already. The Palm Beach Post is full of ads for it, and you can't go more than an hour on Food TV without seeing an ad for it. However, once word about it gets around, it'll be a viable competitor to the Hyundai Sonata/Kia Optima, but that's really it. Korean vehicles haven't yet surpassed the "lower-quality image", even compared to US vehicles. All I'll say about the midwesterner "thing" is that don't forget that retirees NATIONWIDE loved the last Malibu (big seller in FL, for sure). Lastly, reg, the 3.2 in the CTS is actually NOT one of GMs new High Feature engines. It's a reworked version of the Catera/L-Series German 3.0. I doubt it'll be in the CTS much longer, since the 3.6 is now in it.

john: I keep saying this over and over again. Unlike, say, Cavalier, the Malibu name is a highly valued one at Chevy, due to its long an colorful history. It's not something to be tossed away like trash. I agree that Chevy did muck it up with the last Malibu, and they will have to work hard to restore credibility to the name, but in reality, the last Malibu wasn't THAT bad, (sold fairly well; always was in the top 25), so it shouldn't be an insurmountable task.

venus537 · September 2003

couldn't agree more with part a of your post.

pat · September 2003

Sigh...

Look folks, let's dismiss the stereotyping without attacking anyone. I agree, the stereotyping is ridiculous, but let's criticize the concept rather than make an attack.

Some of us are trying very hard to keep this discussion within the scope of the Membership Agreement. We all need to work together on this.

I really appreciate your cooperation. Thanks.

dindak · September 2003

wpbharry : Ecotec will not be going into the G6 initially anyway. The G6 will have a V6 and supercharged V6 only. If Mazda had done the same it's 6 sales may have been better.

reg : Way too long a post and your stereotypes are probably offensive. I also find it amusing that you think what all people want in a car is the same as what you want in a car.

johnclineii : I don't think the Malibu has a bad name but it does have a dull image much like the Altima did a few years ago. If Nissan can revitalize a name, Chevy can also.

logic1 · September 2003

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0306.htm

Malibu's 9-3 cousin aced the iihs safety test. The 9-3 has some structural differences from the new 'Bu, but most likely these differences will not affect the integrity of the Malibu.

I think there is a good reason to believe the '04 Malibu will do very well when it gets its chance against the concrete block.

regfootball · September 2003

i stand by my post as not a stereotype, but quite true. As I do all the time, drive through Iowa, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Kansas, Missouri. The percentage of GM vehicles on the road is almost like 50 percent or more.

My point was not intended to offend, to merely to point out fact that the midwest is a market anomoly compared to the rest of the nation and that while the Malibu may continue to be strong to that same core group it always has been, it does not make overtures far enough in the 'other' direction to achieve greater market penetration and conquest sales in the rest of the markets.

i.e. while GM's national market share is only 27%, but in the midwest and especially rural areas of the midwest it is likely much much higher and that is the point i was making. To increase the national 27% number in a meaningful way, they should have considered something more along the lines of the character of the Verona or other import as opposed to the new Malibu design. And that would involved sacrificing some of the past customers in order to obtain a wave of new customers.

Whilst the tone of the prior post was perhaps sour and I apologize for that, please make note that it is not based on stereotype as much as factual observation.

dindak · September 2003

The higher percentage likely has more to do with dealership availability than anything. Go to any rural area and you are likely to find a Chevy dealer and unlikely to find a Toyota. Judging people with out facts is a dangerous thing.

Back to the Bu.

ehaase · September 2003

I have read that the G6 will initially come standard with a V6, but will eventually have a 4 cylinder. I have also read that GM is developing a 2.4L 175 hp version of the Ecotoc. Perhaps that engine will be standard in the G6

regfootball · September 2003

its not judging people, its counting cars on the road that I see.

logic1 · September 2003

I will say that in a recent interview, a GM Sales VP said they want to sell more autos in California.

I think the smaller exterior proportions of the new 'Bu should help it on the East Coast. If Californians can be convinced to test drive a new 'Bu, they find the ride and handling to their liking. With taxes and housing costs skyrocketing in California, the lower comparative price and better borrowing terms for the new 'Bu may win it sales as well.

dindak · September 2003

ehaase : If they can get the Ecotec up to 175hp and keep it smooth, I can see passing up on a V6. A turbo charged 2.4L Ecotec would be really cool!

reg : Fair enuff.

logic : Key for Chevy is to get people into a Bu for a test. If they are smart, they will offer people freebees to come try a Chevy before they buy a Camry or something. California is key for them I'm sure, it's a huge market.

logic1 · September 2003

And GM might want to think about a real good lease option for Californians.

Get some people in the car, they bring their friends out for a ride, and you possibly have people in a Chevrolet for the first time in their lives.

Establishing or re-establishing a market is never easy. Especially in this segment. People who buy mid-size family sedans - even CamCords - usually do not make a big fuss about how much they like them. That whole appliance thing. I think in this respect, a sporty sedan like the 9-3 has it better than the new 'Bu. I have friends who bought the Arc who just can't find enough chances to tell me about how happy they are with it.

regfootball · September 2003

fair enough

the 175hp 4 cyl will be a very welcome improvement....especially if i can get it with a stick.....wish it woulda come that way out of the chute....oh well

maybe GM should offer a test drive incentive of 50 bucks cash on the spot to someone who drives up in a chevy lot with a Honda or Toyota and a valid title. Mandatory 10 mile test drive. Evaluation form at the end.

Maybe a Moss or Culpepper jersey free with test drive?

Hey, how bout an NFL edition Malibu in your favorite team colors. A purple sedan with gold leather seats or how bout a Maxx in Packer colors?

Actually what sells a lot of cars for Accord and Camry are the killer lease deals. Chevy should shift some of their incentives to offer matching lease deals as far as term and payment. They could steal sales that way.

The Saab 9-3 is another car that word needs to get out on. Even if its a bit overpriced in Arc and Vector form its a good car that deserves a solid following in the market. Saab should sacrifice some higher prices for market share with that car. Its the perfect 'anti-passat' in linear trim. A wonderful alternative to pricier Accords and the like.

logic1 · September 2003

California than in other parts of the country. GMAC should be able to come up with a good lease program. It may be one way to start the on road back in the largest state of the union.

dindak · September 2003

logic : The 04 Bu is still definitely appliance like in nature. The features/price combined with re-established confidence in quality is what will win people over. If an average disgruntled ex-GM owner sees that the Bu is well made, good chance he will come back. LT quality is the key for this cars long term success.

Reg : Ah yes, marketing. Chevy needs to market the heck out of this car. Given most dealers only have 1 or 2, they should probably wait till there are some vehicles in the system.

wpbharry · September 2003

Personally, I'll never do it again. So if Chevy takes cash incentives away from the 'Bu and emphasizes leasing (I could care less what they do in CA), my business goes away with the cash incentives.

I'll check out the LT tomorrow afternoon, so be prepared for a real long post either tomorrow evening or Sat. morning. "Fair warning" (see reg, you night owl you. You need to warn us!). Guess I'm the first "classic" 'Bu owner to do this in this discussion. Should be interesting. Hope for the best. I'll try my best not to laugh when I think of the post about the front end having an appetite for small children.....

wpbharry · September 2003

If there is ANY lingering doubt that manufacturer reps don't "lurk" in these discussions, you need to check out recent posts over in the "Maxx Comparisons" discussion.

Long story (and the Host wasn't upset with me), but I managed to lambast Ford for delaying projects and for disappointing me with the new Mustang interior. So, who pops out? A Ford rep., to defend his company, with a whole cadre of pix, etc., and promises of future "inside info". Check it out, it's interesting.

Let's hope not, but if I come back tomorrow with some scathing remarks about the new Malibu, maybe I can get a Chevy rep. to "come out" and entertain us. Now wouldn't THAT be fun!

jeffj77 · September 2003

...here's my $.02.

Reg...a Packer/Viking color schemed 'Bu would probably sell better than you think! Although given the intensity of that rivalry in recent years it might incite road rage incidents. It would be one way to introduce some needed color contrast to the Malibu's interior!

I think everyone has said their peace (or is it 'piece') about the Midwesterner thing. I grew up as a rural Cheesehead and now live in the heart of Mpls. From a sales standpoint, Reg is accurate about the distribution of domestic makes in rural areas. Rather than rural/Midwestern folks being "unable to read" (this was actually a Bob Lutz spin on the stereotype), I think is has as much to do with price point and dealership network as anything else. My Mom lives in a town of 2000 and she can drive down the street and get her car serviced at a dealer that sells every GM nameplate. Honda/Toyota/Mazda/VW dealers just don't have stores in towns that small. If the closest place I could get service on my Passat was 70 miles from my home, I may have given a domestic car more weight. Also, when you live in a small town/rural area, you make a lot less money typically...it's just the scale of the economy. While real-estate prices reflect the smaller paychecks, cars (your other big expense) are on a national scale. A Chev in LA costs the same as a Chev in Briggsville, WI. If you're making $30K a year versus $80K and gotta have a new ride, then that Cavalier w/ a 3000 rebate looks better than the Civic or Jetta. The resident from LA and Briggsville may even have the same reading comprehension scores

OTOH, if you're in the Twin Cities (or other Midwestern Metro area), the auto demographics probably aren't far from LA.

Back to a couple of other points in Reg's post. Keep in mind that the Malibu was essentially signed off on by the Zarrella regime at GM. It's a transitional car, kind of like the Grand Prix was. For the mass middle market, the G6 will probably be the first car that has Lutz's full stamp on it (for sure the Epsilon Buick in 2006 will). So considering that the new 'Bu is a fresh iteration of a very positive trend at GM in the past several years...that is one of making high quality, high value, reliable, if conservative cars...I think Chevy did a fine job. Actually, that's faint praise...the new Malibu competes with and IMO exceeds the current Camry in terms of looks, feel and dynamics. You have to drive it to believe it.

Is the 'Bu perfect? No...they need to keep refining it every single model year. Without knowing details, I think most of the high impact improvements (seat fabric, more interior color contrast, more attractive steering wheel and shift lever)would be relatively inexpensive.

Finally, you want to expand GM's portfolio while hanging on to the base. By no means would it make sense to alienate their faithful buyers while 'shocking the world' in pursuit of import buyers. I'm talking style here not substance/quality. You need a solid, conservative entry in the mid-size field. Notice how well this works for Camry? Notice how shock and awe doesn't guarantee major success with the 6? You also can't ignore the fact that GM has other divisions and, thus, more up it's sleeve for this segment. Compare the G6 with the Passat, Accord and 6 before determining the outcome of this game.

icvci · September 2003

. A Chev in LA costs the same as a Chev in Briggsville, WI.

I don't think so. Many vehicles are priced appropriately for each market.

I think a lot of the GM bias in the Midwest has to do with production facility location. People that make the vehicles and their components are more likely to buy those vehicles. Not only because they feel some affiliation with the manufacturer but, because they get employee and supplier discounts.

wpbharry · September 2003

Wow. Great post.

First, an "off-color" comment. Obviously, being a Dolphins fan, I'd want orange & teal. But, seriously, since I do make it down for a game or two a year, the Maxx seems nearly perfect for that. Also a good cook, so I'd get a lot of use out of the rear picnic table (and the cargo hold seems fine, at least what we've heard so far, for the grill, etc.). Hmmm, a Maxx in Orange with Teal interior? Works for me.

I'm considering the sedan a "standby" at this point just in case. And no, I won't be too harsh tomorrow. I expect to be very pleasantly surprised. And the fact that you're one of the few who's driven one (in here anyway) says a lot.

Small aside: Wasn't aware that Buick was involved in the Epsilon thing except for the new Regal which is actually due a year from now as an '05. Is there another Buick that's related to the Malibu/G6 coming that I don't know about?

That's 2 for today. The above, and what ever is a Chevy Epica???? Never claimed to know everything, but 2 in one day? I'm starting to sweat. Help me out!!

jeffj77 · September 2003

A couple of my bigger gripes about the Malibu are the 'made for rebate' pricing and the lack of a manual transmission. I truly wish they would have just retailed the LT model (top of the line, fully loaded) around 21-22K rather than $24.5K. IMO, it's a stupid-good bargain at $22K MSRP. Of course $20-21K out the door is what you're actually going to pay for a fully loaded Malibu after the inevitable huge rebate and negotiating to a few hundred $ above invoice. But if they'd just price it right to begin with, then the spin would be what a great buy it is rather than 'another domestic car being sold with rebates'.

Second thing, why can't they offer a manual transmission in this car? If the target is 250K sales/year, then 10% manual sales is certainly doable...and I'll bet a good portion of those 25,000 customers could be pure conquest sales if they spun it the right way. Reg, here's something we could both back 100% Consider this...orient the lower end of the Malibu range as "value-sport". Put together a collection of options with the forthcoming 2.4L Ecotech that would include a manual transmission option and all the other common comfort and convenience options. Then combine it with an advertising spin that invites comparisons to the top of the Focus, Civic, Corolla and (bottom of the) Jetta range. Here's where I think Chevy could hold on to (and expand) their mid-size base vs. Camry/Taurus etc...while making the Malibu appealing to import buyers. A sedan (and ESPECIALLY a Maxx) available with a 170ish HP 4 cylinder engine and a stick, priced from $18-19,000 could definitely make some noise. Of course one problem (other than the fact that mid-size cars give no respect to the stick in the USA) is that you'd potentially be stepping on the top of the Cobalt range as well. But a guy can dream, right?

jeffj77 · September 2003

A Chev in LA costs the same as a Chev in Briggsville, WI.

"I don't think so. Many vehicles are priced appropriately for each market.

I think a lot of the GM bias in the Midwest has to do with production facility location. People that make the vehicles and their components are more likely to buy those vehicles. Not only because they feel some affiliation with the manufacturer but, because they get employee and supplier discounts. "

It's not a scientific argument so much as a hypothesis...that the rural/small town customer might be much more value-sensitive where the motivation is getting the best deal on a brand new car. Perhaps Michigan might be one state where social ques dictate that you drive a domestic, but other than that, I'm not sure there's much affiliation with the manufacturer unless you're living right in the shadow of a factory location. Again, just a hypothesis from a former rural Cheesehead (still a Cheesehead, just not rural anymore). While MSRP may be adjusted by market, interestingly my experience when shopping with/for family members is that the larger town/city dealer usually saves you a few hundred $ on the initial purchase. In my example, you'll often get a better deal (by a couple to several hundred $) if you purchase a Chev in Madison, WI rather than buying it in Portage, WI. (pop. 230K vs pop. 9K)

That's enough from my piehole today...have a good night all.

regfootball · September 2003

agree 1000% totally on your idea for a sporting bu4/stick. Who cares if it conquests Cobalt sales. Don't fall prey to GM's worrys about internal competition. The other makes are your competition. GM is not GM's competition. Put the best Malibu combinations out there to raise as much interest as possible.

Want a Cobalt with appeal? A 4 door 160hp Ecotec Cobalt with stick and abs/air and 17" tires and decent wheels out the door price of about 13 g. Cruise too. Make the Malibu a 175hp 4 or turbo four with stick and PW/PL sunroof in addition and keep it at 20 grand maxx.

I had an entire post that would not register because of Edmunds again. Type for 10 minutes and it blows it away. Can't the thing at least save your text of what you type if your login expires? Its entirely maddening and makes my blood boil. And it was a COMPLIMENTaRY POSITIVE POST TOO! And now I forgot what it was all about!

Lesson, before each post, copyclip to the clipboard. Edmunds won't do a THING to save your text when your login or their servers fail.

Oh yeah, something about the 6 sedna being quite dull looking in base form, the wagon and hatch are better looking, similarly the maxx is more interesting, blah blah, i can buy a dull looking car if its interior and powertrain/ handling are superior but if a car is dull to look at and dull to drive then no sale.

Jeff when do we get together and plan this Malibu design.

wpbharry · September 2003

Since I have to get up at 4AM tomorrow (and Survivor's on tonite), this'll be it for me as well. Bet you're all saying "good riddance".

reg, please include in your midnight essay a quick blurb about the Epica. Thanks. P.S., your troubles in posting are STRANGE. Don't know what to tell you. I've made stupid, but minor mistakes, but THAT has never happened. "Login expiring"? What? Edmund's also gets very busy this time of day, and the wait time after posting is atrocious.

Guess I'll have to answer my question about the Regal myself. It's on an extended Epsilon platform and won't compete directly with the Malibu & G6. The L-Series replacement, which IS due for '06, WILL be a direct stablemate to the 'Bu/G6.

I'm confused by the recent posts re: pricing. Yes, I see "special" market discounts down here from time to time, but isn't MSRP the same nationwide? Maybe I'm missing that point.

Have a good night.

venus537 · September 2003

wpbharry: well we have one thing in common, were both dolphin fans.

on the mid western thing: are the Dakotas and Nebraska considered mid western states? as far as being conservative states, take out indiana and you'll see that the upper mid west went "blue" in the last presidential election.

any small rural town will be dominated by conservative people with cars and a whole lot of trucks from the big three. it's not unique to the mid west.

pat · September 2003

If your post is not strictly about the Malibu, the server won't let you post.

Heh, heh, heh ...umm, hmmm...... Oh yeah, right. I reckon THAT can't be true given what's gone on around here lately. Well, I can wish, can't I?

No, here's the real deal ... You can get timed out of Web Crossing while you are composing a post. It usually takes a while, how long I don't know, but it's "a while". You can be typing away and hit post and then you see the refreshed message display, but your post isn't there.

Here's what you gotta do right away - hit the back button on your browser. Your post should be in the post box. You can select it all and copy it. Then you MUST hit the forward button to return to the page that was displayed when you hit post but your message did not post.

(You are still with me, right? :-))

NOW you can paste that which you copied into the post box, click on post again and your message will post that time.

Trust me. Would I lie to you?

:-)

regfootball · September 2003

I have tried to use 'back' before, but i cannot remember the success rate. By that point I am swearing so much. And I get rattled.

Harry-the EPICA from Chevrolet, not to be confused with the OPTRA, is the clone of the Daewoo Magnus / Suzuki Verona (HEY GM DOES DO WORLD CARS!!!!). However, do not fret. The Epica is only available in the land of the maple leaf and touk.

Check out Edmunds first drive review of the Verona/Epica. the dash is very pre 2004 TLish meets 626.

venus, often times states in the farm belt will vote democrat as the democrats have a better track record on producing farm subsidies and they fight 'corporate farming'.

That's all I will say about that, as I don't want to go far off topic. There are websites that can tell you just how much money goes out.

THAT'S ALL I'M GONNA SAY! 'bite' 'lip'.

wpbharry · September 2003

Have to get a buddy to PBIA shortly; that's why I'm up at this ungodly hour.....

reg, thanks for the Epica clarification.

Pat HOST, thanks for helping out reg with posts; that surely must be annoying for him. When I compose my essay today/tomorrow, I DO think I'll use reg's suggestion and compose the post elsewhere and then cut & paste. Sounds safer. Plus, I have such a short attention span, that I must get up and walk around every 15 or so....

venus: Glad there's another Dolphins fan in the area. BTW, I posted another item for your consideration in the "Comparisons" discussion. You all seem to be ignoring that discussion for some reason, but Venus, check it out, OK?

Over and out for a while. Funny how quiet the "room" got last night. Not even a late-night post from reg? You guys are slippin!

dindak · September 2003

All these new Daewoo Chevys coming up here seem cheap, but they all seem very under powered to me.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/030918-1.htm

The Epica which has an MSRP of C$25-26K is priced where a mid level 04 Malibu would be priced yet only has 155 hp under the hood. Of course it is a OHC power plant so you would like that. Still, I can't see ever picking a Epica over a Bu. Strange how these cars won't come out in the U.S. I guess the lower end car market is bigger here.

2000-2011 Chevrolet Malibu

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