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Preparing to negotiate with the dealer.
And 2004 LE with 500 miles (demo, probably).
If you're looking at Honda, IMO, Ody is noisier in the present version. With the 05s, there are no guarantees that they will not be marked up like the 03s before the arrival of Siennas. Better yet, rumor is that 06 Siennas will be available with HSD like the 05 Highlander and Lexus RX400h. So, the future is bright!.
: )
Mackabee
"I am ready to buy a Sienna LE in California and my local dealer quoted me 3% over invoice which is great, but the invoice he quoted me was almost $1,000 more than what Edmunds shows. He actually called it his "on-the-lot price" and is calculating at 3% of this figure. Has anyone else experienced this or know what charges make up the difference?
So, what goodies are included in the dealer's $1K over Edmunds' invoice? In CA 3% over Edmunds' invoice is reasonable (my opinion - use your own mark-up), but 3% over the sum of Edmunds'inv + $1K is likely excessive, unless your dealer has included goodies with some value, like Toyota pre-paid maintenance or an extended warranty (but not high-profit and essentially worthless items like protection packages, undercoating, security systems, etc.), assuming you really want them. (If you don't, don't pay for them.)
In the Sacramento area, where I bought my LE 7 in late Nov,
dealer's inv = Edmunds' inv + TDA + a nominal gasoline charge,
typically, where TDA is the regional advertising fee. TDA was $422 and the gas charge $6 for my LE. These were listed on the dealer's invoice; see my post #2623. You might also want to read #3030.
After I pulled out the printout from Edmunds the reference point of discussion changes to Invoice Price. The invoice price for the above was $23768. I added $750 as profit and gave an offer. Finally they settled on $24800. But I have paid $1343 for the warranty(&yr/75000) by MPP co. I refused the theft guard and TIREX insurance policy. Now I am thinking I shall cancel the Ext Warranty and get it from somewhere else. Any advice please.
Did I pay too much?
The dealer wants $346 for registration fees (in Minnesota), +$50 "doc" fees.
I guess I csan check with DMV on Monday but does either of the fees look reasonable ?
My wife and I are in the process of shopping for a 2004 Sienna, LE-7, FWD, least options available.
Is there anyone in the Seattle area, or for that matter in Western Washington that can give me any insight into their purchase, such as where it was purchased, price and experience overall. I want to negotiate price. Any help would be great.
As far as documentation fee, it's a junk fee that's just extra profit for the dealer. The amount of $50 is tiny compared to such fees charged by many other dealers, reaching as high as $350. If you don't like it, ask the dealer to lower your selling price by $50, but they will not agree to scratching the doc fee from the contract for legal liability reasons.
I have now given up on them and am looking out of state and working with brokers. If they don't come through soon, I'm going to wait for either the '05 Nissan Quest or '05 Dodge Grand Caravan when they are rumored to have AWD options.
My experiences with dealers have been bad. From no return calls (despite offers at MSRP) to broken promises e.g. salesman agrees on pricing but manager retracts it asking $5000 more for an order! Surely some consumer group action is warranted and I should write in. This seems to apply mostly to the AWD models and I've heard of better experiences with FWD models.
One exception was a dealer in Renton, who bettered the rest by virtue of being polite but still looking for huge profits nevertheless. My suggestion is to look either north to BC or south to OR and CA. Most people with AWD models around here I've spoken got theirs in CA.
Is the turn rate the percent sold within a certain number of days following delivery? If so, how many days? I'm just curious how long these cars sit on the lot on average. Also, what's the turn rate on Prius?
"...But I have paid $1343 for the warranty(&yr/75000)...Now I am thinking I shall cancel the Ext Warranty and get it from somewhere else. Any advice please."
Run - don't walk - to cancel it and get a refund. In fact, I suggest you do so even if you need to pay a small cancellation fee. I suspect you paid about 2x what you should have.
I paid $950 for the manufacturer's Platinum 7yr/100K, 0 deductible warranty, but the best deals posted here for that warranty have been $850. The 7yr/75K warranty (Gold or Platinum), with either a 0 or $50 deductible, should cost much, much less.
Suggested retail prices for all of the Sienna extended warranties are listed on the Financial Services page at Toyota.com. You will get a wide range for dealer cost when you contact dealerships, but figure true dealer cost for any one of them at about 50% of the list price. Negotiate (hard) from there.
See my post #3104.
I think its a pretty good deal considering most of the dealers in the South Florida area were asking for much more and were unwilling to move off MSRP. Remember, this is "SET" land where the distributor makes a killing by adding fees that can't really be avoided. At least the dealer agreed not to add "Toyoguard", which is a worthless profit item that normally adds $699 to the price. Now I just have to wait for the car to show up (hopefully). If anyone has done better in South Florida let me know...
Anyway, during the process I witnesses some amazing things. My favorite was the $500 over invoice offer. When I went there to seal the deal, the salesperson would not show me the invoice. Instead, she showed me a computer printout that had an invoice price that was $2400 higher than shown anywhere else (edmunds, etc). When I finally found out what else was included in the dealers "invoice", it turns out they were including another $565 as a "holdback" charge to the customer plus regional advertising $$, national advertising $$, something called an "accessory reserve" ($400+) and something called a "finance reserve" ($200+). This was all in addition to a $599 dealer fee and an $89 doc prep fee.
Next was the $4000 "ADM" sticker ("additional dealer markup") for the suckers.
Finally, was the one salesman who assured me that this weekend was going to be a "sales blowout" weekend and that if I only drove 40 miles to his dealership, he could get me the car below cost.
After getting such bad reps, it seems some have never and will never learn. That said, I did meet several salespeople who were very professional and honest, considering their job is to maximize profit and commission.
If you are shopping, at least in the bay area for a sienna, there are plenty of dealers with large inventory just sitting there who are willing to deal at $500 over if not less. They may be flying off the shelf in other parts of the country but not here.
I personally have not bought yet as even though I know I want this van, I do not need it urgently and am looking to get a price as close to invoice as possible.
Just IMHO. Drexel.
I've just check their inventory, and yes you got it, it's still there!! Let it ROT!
for a $800.00 scobble? I'll wait to buy a 05 Honda Ody.!
: )
Mackabee
I sent e-mails to @15 dealers in the Puget Sound area (I'm in Tacoma). Responses were pretty good. We initially went to Toyota Tacoma - stay away from them. Bad, bad, bad experience with the sales manager. Toyota of Puyallup was great, though. They went out of their way to find the exact van I want. Printed out a list of 7 seat LEs on the way to the 5 state area - said they could change any of the options & accessories on the allocation list to get me exactly what I wanted. For internet customers they price the van 1/2 way between the invoice and MSRP - the best pricing I was able to find.
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
XLE Limited base MSRP $34,480
GW Package #3 250
RB Running Boards 599
WH Wireless Headphones 82
Z1 Preferred Access Pkg 274
WL Wheel Locks 59
Delivery, etc 540
TOTAL MSRP $36,284
Invoice per CarsDirect 32,754
I had a trade in (which I got a bit beat on - so it's all a numbers game).
Either you look at it as I paid $34,200 ($2084 under MSRP / $1446 over invoice) and got ripped $500 bucks on my trade. ---OR---
I paid $34,700 ($1584 under MSRP / $1946 over invoice) including a fair trade-in price.
Regarding the extended warranties - I got the Platinum 7yr/100k plan for $750 (50% of the listed price)
Thanks again!! GOOD LUCK!!
If the 05 Ody isn't going to be a sales dud, you will have better luck getting good deals on the Sienna than the Ody (there are far fewer Honda dealers than Toyota dealers, so less competition). Here in MD around Dec 2002 (before 04 Sienna arrived), the most discount one could get was $100 off MSRP on the Ody. I am so glad I waited and got the Sienna instead. Thankfully, my T&C didn't die in the mean time.
Does anybody know if there is an advantage to buying HF package 5 instead of buying Package 2 (console), rear spoiler and DVD separate? The only difference I notice is that #5 comes with 2 115 outlets. What is the deal with these? Are they cigarette lighter plug outlets with more power ability or are they like a real power outlet? Also, has anybody ordered the threshold cover for rear bumper? Can it be put on at dealership?
: )
Mackabee
Steve, Host
I have offered a number of dealers in the area $23,800, but have basically been told to take a hike by all of them. I'm currently offering $24k but haven't really heard back from anyone yet. So my question is, does $24,200 sound reasonable or should I hold out for a better deal? Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Also, for those in the Atlanta area, I would recommend Eddie-Wiggins Toyota in Warner Robins. I got my XLE limited from them in december with GW and Rear Spoiler + Toyo Guard Plus for $35800 out the door price, which included a 6% tax for the county that I live.
Which dealer did you purchase from?
Why would my dealer hold out for more than $36K for a 04 XLE LTD GV#2???
Can anyone tell me what features/options are included with the AWD 2004 Sienna?
Thanks
Sometimes the website is hard to use to address a question likes yours -- you may want to pick up a brochure from a dealer, or print off the online brochure from the website and use that to more easily compare option packages.
hope this helps a little.
With the XLE Ltd you already have most of those items, but you do get: all wheel drive, center console box, rear spoiler, and the run-flat tires.
Also, do you know if the AWD is full time or can it go to 2WD for better mileage?
Thanks again.
"I live in So. California and I would like to buy a CE, 7 passengers, no packages (Basic Model) I hate the roof rack and I do not want cruise control. Does anyone know if the Basic Model is available en California? That is all I need and that is what I want to buy. I checked with three local dealers but they say either that they do not know or they do not call back. Toyota does not want to answer that question either."
Your request is unusual. Are you certain that's what you want to do? I wouldn't, unless I planned to drive the vehicle into the ground, in part because a basic model without options like cruise control will be difficult to resell. Dealerships aren't likely to stock such vehicles, either, but a dealer can check inventory at other stores in your area by computer. Ask one to do so. Many dealerships have their own Web sites at which you can check inventory, too. You can get a list of the dealers in your area off Toyota's site.
If all that fails (and I suspect it will), why don't you order the vehicle? A dealership can do that for you.
I'd work this deal very, very close to invoice. See my post #3030.
Two caveats. Your salesman or, more likely, his manager might say, "If you place a factory order, you'll pay MSRP." That's nonsense. There's nothing "special" about a factory order. If you need to, remind him that his store needs to provide space and security for the vehicle for no more than, say, 24 hrs. after it arrives and will pay no floor-planning (i.e., any finance charge) before you take delivery.
He might also complain that the store isn't making much money on such a deal and, in fact, will lose profit because it has a quota for the vehicles it gets. That's nonsense, too. If you need to, simply remind him that the dealership has an allocation, not a quota. The more vehicles it sells, the more it gets from the factory.
Good luck and let us know how you do!
Thank you for your extensive response. Yes, I know exactly what I want and what I need it for.
1. I keep a vehicle for 15 to 20 years. I do not think that cruise control or roof rack will have any relevance after that period of time. Cars will have a different technology by that time.
2. I do not mind special ordering the vehicle, but I believe that the "region" has already decided how the cars will be sold (Basic Model vs. packages). The car may not be available in California at all.
3. I admire your optimism about prices. I have read your message #3030 and I will contact Sacto for a quote and a response on the availability of the model I want.
Dealers can request cars that are not on the normal distribution. I had more than one local dealer insist that I couldn't get the van I wanted with the package I wanted. I recieved mine in the color I wanted with all the options I wanted.
You may have to check with alot more dealers to get what you want.
I would highly recomend getting the package with the rack and cruise control. The cost is quite minimal and over 10-20 years is going to be negligible (376 invoice, so somewhere between $3.76 to $1.63 per year) and the cruise control will likely save you more than its cost over time in fuel not used.
Good luck and be persistent.
Also, how is the tax handled when buying a car out of state?
Thanks
We just took delivery of an '04 XLE w/ pkg#12(FR) plus floor mats a week ago. MSRP (with freight) is $32871, our final OTD cost is $30400, plus $79 TTL and sales tax. This deal also includes a free 1k mile check up with oil change and car wash.
It took me a few months of searching all over four states, especially around the Indianapolis area to land this deal. Most of the dealers countered $500-$1000 off sticker but this particular dealer in Kokomo, Indiana, accepted my offer without any usual dealer tactics. On top of that, the particular configuration we wanted is extremely rare in the Midwestern states (IN, OH, KY, IL, etc), but he managed to work the TMS regional allocation channel and got us the exact van without a single extra option, and we got it only three weeks after putting down a deposit!
All the communication was done through email and fax, until went over there to pick up the van and finish the paper work. I am genuinely satisfied with the whole process and highly recommend this dealer. To not violate Edmunds "no-solicitation" policy, I will withold the dealer contact information, but you can email me for the details if you are interested.
I purchased mine from www.eddiewigginstoyota.com in warner robins, ga.
if you are in the atlanta area, its about 120 miles south.
and yes, i got my salsa red 2004 sienna XLE Limited, with GW ( #2 ) + dealer installed rear spoiler ( $399 ) + Toyogaurd plus ( $699 ) for an out the door price of ~$35800 on december 20, 2003. The van had 11 miles on it when i got it and was on the lot for about 3 weeks.
I first came to know about this dealership only from this discussion board. if you search for bkb2003 on this discussion board you will find my earlier messages with more details on it.
Also, when i first got a quote from eddiewiggins, i tried to ask my local dealer Atlanta toyota to match it. They would not match it so i went ahead and go the van from eddie wiggins. 2 days later, atlanta toyota called me back and said they will match it but it was too late.
If you do not feel like travelling 120 miles, you can still negotiate with your local dealer. I know it will work.
Best of luck in your search.
If you don't mind being contacted off the boards, you need to mark your email public in your profile via the Update Profile link on the upper left.
Congrats on the new ride!
Steve, Host
Mackabee