OK, I did a little experimentation today with the rev limiter, step, etc. I must say that this was one of the most fun experiments one can conduct. MAN, am I jealous of those BMW test engineers...
Anyhoo, contrary to what I had previously written (and experienced, or so I thought) the Step WILL upshift in Manual mode, rather than bounce off the rev limiter. This happened today and was rather eye-opening , as I had not anticipated it (I could swear I had "bumped" the limiter before...maybe it depends on which gear you're in? But that wouldn;t make sense...). Regardless, the perfectly seamless shifts occurred at what I judge to be (it happens so quickly!) about 6,350-6,400rpm. I'm not exactly sure what the official redline is, but that's when the shifts occurred, I assume just before the circuitry would intervene and retard ignition timing.
Also, judging by the graduated markings on the tach after 6,000rpm, I would guess the redline to be 6,300rpm. I'm sure the owner's manual would easily clarify, but it's in the glovebox 2 flights of stairs down in the house...perhaps the GURU knows off-hand???
Boy, drove my wife's minivan today after being in an OldsmoBuick rental this weekend...couldn't WAIT to be back in the comfortable, reassuring confines of Gretl (car's name) tonight. Nearly rear-ended some folks today over-estimating the braking abilities of the Caravan Sport!
I think you're right on the transmission topic. The brake size I can't answer til I'm back at work on Wednesday pm. That's a "Fast Facts" booklet question.
Braveheart - where did you see pictures of the '02 3-Series? If you have a url, I'd love to check it out. I've only seen pictures of the 3-Series compact, which I thought looked good for what it is.
My 330's name is Claudia (pronounced "CLOW-dee-uh"), for obvious reasons. My wife is a 5'11" tall slender German woman, and she's a little jealous of Claudia. I'm sure they'll learn to co-exist peacefully, but for the time being, the jury's still out.
qtipsquire - I originally wanted the A62.7T (coveted is more like it). Then I drove the 330i. Obviously, I bought the 330i. Much sportier IMO and a bit less money. If size and comfort are your bag, go with the A6. If serious driving excitement is what you're after, the 330 blows doors on the A6. A6 was big and roomy and felt a little wandery/cushioney on the road to me. The 330 feels like a rock. A damn fast, smooth, precise rock.
I'm actually surprised to see v_tech actually left the building. I thought for sure he'd be back. I'm left wondering, "Did that really happen?"
This is a great forum, isn't it? I wish I had more time to spend here, but the 2+ hours a day I already spend is killing me!
My wife also has the ubiquitous Caravan Sport (3.8) and after I got my E46, I too almost rear-ended somebody in the van. As good at the Caravan is when compared to other vans, you need to develop two different mindsets for the two different cars. After a while, it becomes second nature, Van=Grandma Perkins, Bimmer=Mario Andretti.
My wife's van is only the 3.3 liter, I believe...in any case, it requires a bit of PLANNING to merge to freeway speeds (relative to Gretl, of course, which merely requires a flooring of the throttle and a quick brake once you unexpectedly reach 85...). The engine is almost unbearable at high rpm, like putting gravel into a blender, whereas Gretl is almost hydraulically smooth in her urgency -- she seems to just be warming up at about the point where the rev limiter pulls the reigns in. Seems like she's taunting me into another 1,500rpm, as if to say, "Is that all you've got!?"
It's great to have her back, but it's nice to have the Caravan for dog duty and the like, I admit...everything is so much more of a PRODUCTION (braking, accelerating, cornering), though, whereas Gretl is seamlessly effortless, like an extension of your hands, eyes, and feet...confidence-inspiring to the point of making mediocre drivers good ones; good ones great.
thanks for the additional info on our week 25'ers. i live in nyc and each time i see a 3 series on the streets i look closely to get a glimpse of what i will be getting soon. most of the cars i see are 328s or 323s; i've only seen one 330xi on long island since i started paying more attention to them. i certainly hope that somehow our cars are ahead of scheduled week 25 production. also, let me know more about the extension on the 5.9% financing.
re: body side molding i think the cars look much better w/body color side molding than the black. the black on silver especially makes the car look cheaper IMO.
re: clears maybe i'm still not used to it yet, but i think it doesn't look good for bimmers.
Had a chance to look, and found your 330xi. Black/Sand, right? It still shows as being in 111 status so week 23 looks like the week. Remind me end of next week and we'll look again.
I just got the first of my two 330's Saturday and would like to address some value questions which have been posed on this board. Start with items standard on 330i but not on 325i: 17" wheels, chrome and body color trim, halogen fog lamps, heated mirrors and windshield washer jets (PP), sport suspension (SP), Titanium trim on front of car, power seats ($945), upgraded interior lighting (PP), front armrest (PP), aluminum ringed gauges, on-board computer ($300), Harmon Kardon stereo ($675).
The priced items total $1,920. The unpriced items are included in packages, not available or separate prices were not available to me. I would estimate the unknown prices to total around $800 to $1,200. If you add the $1,920 for the priced items and the average estimate for unknown prices of $1,000 to the 325i price of $26,990, you get a total of $29,910. This compares to the 330i price of $33,990 giving a difference of $4,080. Note that this is almost exactly $100 for each additional hp.
If both cars are sold at $1,500 over invoice, the difference is less. BASE OPTIONS INVOICE MARKUP PRICE $24,450 +$2,487 = $26,937 + $1,500 = $28,437 $30,750 +0 = $30,750 + $1,500 = $32,250 $ 3,813 More for the 330i
Two more factors if you lease. The residual in April for the 330 was 65% and the 325 was about 61%. The money factor was .0021 on the 330 and about .0030 on the 325. This makes a huge difference on the payments (around $150 per for 36 months totaling $5,400). This makes the cost of the 330i $1,587 less than the 325i over a three year lease. $5,400 savings on depreciation and interest on the 330i compared to a $3,813 lower price on the 325i. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE 330 IS CHEAPER THAN THE 325 ON A 3 YEAR LEASE!
Hi guys, I enjoy reading all of your posts although I don't post much myself. But here is a question I haven't seen in nearly 3,000 posts. Anyone know the effect of altitude on the 3 series? I heard that you loose 3-4% of HP for each 1,000 feet of elevation. I live in Denver and that would mean 20 HP in the city. And when I drive in the mountains (the absolute biggest thrill you can have in one of these cars, and well worth the loss of power) at up to 12,000 feet, that is nearly 1/2 of the available ponies.
I've never had my car below 5,000 feet and I wonder what the power feels like at sea level. I think I'd have to drive nearly 500 miles to get below 1,000 feet of elevation. Would that be the equivelant of two CAI's and Stage 2 chips? Lookout Kansas, here I come!
totally agreed...test drove the A62.7t tonight, and while sweet (great interior), it was cushy. Sort of like the Saab95 aero...very smooth, but not like driving a true car. 330i is so much more fun.
anybody drive this car in the snow with no all wheel?
Hello Guys...I was hoping that I could get a few more questions answered. This forum has been very helpful. I have a 325i and...
1. I have the Steptronic. After I park and get out of the car I notice that the little orange light next to the "P" for Park remains on for a while. Is this normal?
2. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good products I can buy at a local store to clean the outside of the car, interior, rims, etc.? I'd rather just run to a store nearby if possible rather than wait for the products when ordering online.
Ok, I have to admit... I simply do not get why these things are necessary. I hate them when I see them on the road. They're extremely pricey to replace. They cost a bundle as an option.
And, to be perfectly honest, I really have no problem with normal headlights. I have never been driving and wished, "Damn, I wish these headlights were bright enough to blind oncoming traffic."
So, I talked to my salesman and my dealership's finance department supervisor yesterday. A couple things.
My salesman said that he expects my car will be bumped forward by a week or two because it is a pre-sold car. He said that cars that are ordered for an ordering customer usually get bumped ahead of dealer stock. He said he still expects my car to be built in the last week of May or first week of June.
Week 25 is June 10 to June 15. My salesman says that we have a good chance of getting the cars before June 30 if they are bumped 2 weeks forward to the last week of May, and a fair chance of getting them before June 30 if they are built in the first week of June (between June 3 and June 8).
In light of the very real possibility that I won't be getting my car until after June 30 (the 5.9% financing cut off date) I spoke to the finance supervisor about a special extension, as the BMW NA person told me to.
I ran into a stone wall on this one. She told me flatly that it is impossible to get an extension. Which seems odd, considering that the BMW NA rep told me it was routine.
I think I may have to put on my badass attorney hat now. Letters may have to be written. Threats may have to be made. After all, I am looking at an extra $7 per month on my payment if the interest rate goes up from 5.9% to 6.5%!
There is no doubt that it is a FAR superior lighting system;if I was doing 120mph in the Black Forrest with any regularity I would surely want them....i've noticed you can buy blue-tinted bulbs,which would do nothing but give you the "xenon look",but nothing more.In other words,I'm sure at least some of the attraction is "hey!look at me"Notice how often you'll see on both clear days and nights guys driving merrily down the road with their fogs blazing. They really are nice lights,and for a high performance car they do make sense,in that you can easily "over drive"normal lights at very speeds.But for some,I suspect it's the blue.
lobs: nice cost analysis. pretty much spells it out with the new priding structure -- $100/pony. That should make the M3 about $15,000 more than the 325 and about $11,000 more than the 330 (invoice prices), which is not far off, I believe. Of course, the M3 would probably be considered a bargain right now at MSRP -- I suspect people are paying premiums beyond MSRP. This is speculation on my part, as I have not checked TMV...
qtipsquire: I have had my 330i (no AWD, no SP) since early January here in Cincinnati, where we had our share of snow/ice/freezing rain thru March. I, too, was curious how the RWD would hold up. Surprisingly, the all-seasons (205/50 17" ContiTouring, I believe) held up very well. I rarely even noticed the traction control or DSC intervening in poor conditions. Of course, this is HIGHLY dependent on the driver, too -- I've been driving in poor winter conditions annually for 13 years. Also, if you get the SP, the tires will perform MUCH worse than the all-seasons in the winter stuff, which is why most folks strongly recommend getting a second set of winter wheels/tires with the SP.
Xenon: I agree they are a pretty costly option however, aftermarkets are $900 +. I had to stick w/ a budget so I didn't get them. They do light the path much better and they look great. The BULB replacements are not all that expensive (~20 from what I've read on the board previously). If you need to replace the "power source," that is what costs the bucks. I've also read that the bulbs do last longer than the halogen but it's not like the halogens are burning out left and right.
i scanned the msgs this morn and i was laughing pretty much all the way thru - you all have a great sense of humor!!! btw, i like Gretl - it's a cute name. is there a Henzel in the fam too? Claudia, well, self-explanatory. dangerous game that Claudia thing, i'm telling you. hope they both get along. i picked a safer name like Strumpf Muscle so my wife won't get THAT jealous of my love for the car. so far, it's been working out well.
xenons - will be standard on cars 5 years from now just like airbags. they illuminate much better (more contrast) and are softer on the eyes. sure, they look cool too and that's part of their appeal but trust me, all new cars will have them soon because they are a far superior technology at ANY speed. the stock ones are regulated properly not to shoot high and blind other drivers but there are always some bozos that would turn them up...hear out shipo on the xenons' advantages - can't go wrong with shipo.
redline - i went through the whole owner's manual last night and i also searched on the net but could not find any reference to the redline. the 320, 325, and 33o all reach max hp at different rpm points and all seem to have the same tach but i suspect that their rev limiter is different. larger engine like the 330 tend to have a lower rev limiter than smaller engines like the 320. not sure why...
links to '02 models - i don't remember where i saw them; will post if i remember. platypus, could you help us with this, please? i downloaded the file, though and can mail it over to those of you that are interested. let's see if platypus can help us first, though - he's very good with that.
lobs - agreed on the lease deal - i pointed that out yesterday; agreed on some options being available on the 330 only - i pointed that out too. the difference between the 325 and 330 pricing will obviously depend on how loaded you buy them. if you are buying, the easiest analysis would be to compare the base models. start with the 7 grand difference. take out the features that the 330 has that the 325 does not like you did. those are about a couple of grand. then you have unpriced stuff like titanium trim on front of car, front armrest and aluminum ringed gauges - they must be worth sth but I would not pay for them anyhow. i personally don't like the armrest and power seats ($945) either - too slow and i'm too young to be sitting in a power seat - still have the physical power to move them myself.
yep, i too love this board just like all of you and i feel that it's been taking a lot of my time. i love it and i'm willing to pay that price as long it's fun and educational ) what a pleasure going thru dozens of intelligent, friendly, and witty posts. I feel that we share something special, something intangible that only a 3-series fan can understand.
Regarding the lease deal, 325 vs 330. Yes, the 330 leases are a TRAMENDOUS deal and are actually cheaper than the 325 leases. But this is not really apples-to-apples, since it is for a limited time and the deal is not the same for 325's. BMW chose to artificially support the 330 leases for April by raising residuals (by 1%, I believe: 64% --> 65%) and reducing the money factor (0.0031 --> 0.0021). But good points for choosing a 330 over a 325 if you happened to have leased in April -- seems like a no-brainer in that special case.
If I had known this in January, I may have waited 3 months to April; The special rates coupled with the 330's revised pricing structure would have likely saved me a couple G's. Oh well -- hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20, and it's easy to justify the non-savings by the 3 months' earlier enjoyment of Gretl alone...
And yes, our next BMW has a strong chance of being named Hansel, assuming the name fits the car's character.
I was actually looking at sth entirely different. I think it was a link that Alp had provided and had ALL new BMW models. Either that or it was some post on bimmer.org from Sunday aft... Pretty sure I saw it on Sunday aft. The 3-series' headlights on that picture had the two front lights in a separate compartment kind of like an Integra. The rears had the clear lens and layered effect - they were on top of each other. Could it have been the compact?
I just wanted to know how much more insurance premiums would most likely be in comparison to say a more conservative luxury car like the ES300. I know it's a pretty boring subject, but I really don't know what to expect...that is, for a four-door 325i sedan for someone in their late twenties and a fairly clean record...
The car you are referring to is the new compact. The front headlights are in separate housings (a la Integra). Also, the rear taillights are hideous (a la IS300). It's supposed to be a true driver's car though: 25% faster steering than the current gen.
Actually saw one in Munich. They're not that pretty to look at. IMO, the '02 MBZ sports coupe (C-class hatchback) is much more visually appealing.
I like what I'm seeing. I like the halo effect on the headlights a la 5-series. The compact is also supposed to have the new engine technology from BMW but I can't get past the looks of this car...
jasonkureejii - you are looking at about a 20-30% premium difference in Boston; not sure about other areas and it may vary widely.
Thanks for the response...I guess to have fun, you have to pay for the ride...I sincerely want to get this car....hell, my girlfirend even said that out of the cars I test drove, TL Type-S, ES300 and IS300, I looked like a kid in the candy store when test driving the BMW 325i. I really miss having a manual even through Dallas traffic...
Couple of hundred bucks in insurance premium difference is nothing for a 30K+ car. As far as the play part, I'd buy a sub-30K 325i stripper with manual and SP over a fully loaded Acura or Lexus any day. Good luck! Driving the 3-series is a revelation; like I mentioned recently, I've never felt SO alive!!! My soul just winked at me...
I, too, was set on getting either a CL-S, TL (no TL-S at the time I bought), or IS300 (we call 'em Altezzas) BEFORE I test drove the 325i. Ended up buying the 330i that day! See my post #2182 for perspective and grueling details...
As for insurance, I was surprised at how reasonable insuring the 330i is. I think, for my wife and I (26 and 29 years old, respectively) with clean driving records, we pay about a grand/yr, total. This is versus about $600/yr for a nine-year old Camry! Of course, it varies IMMENSELY with geographic location, demographics, driving record, multiple policy discounts, alignment of Jupiter's moons, yada, yada, yada. It's a rigorous statistical process, which is why they hire actuaries: so no one else can question it, let alone figure it out.
At least that gives you an idea relative to another car; the point is that yours may be relatively similar, or significantly different (that pretty much covers the entire range, right?).
I haven't posted for a while, so I thought I'd share a recent story. I finally had a chance to sit with my wife and go over the new 330 (with a 4 month old free time has been rare). Her eye quickly was drawn to the DSC disengage button and she asked "what's that?" It was a perfect set up to respond:" whatever you do don't touch that button!"
Btw she likes the idea of this board so she won't be bored (bad pun) with all the car stuff.
Finally, i should share my wife's best BMW line from several years ago. When considering the purchase of our first bmw we were speculating as to what the "i" stands for in 325i. Her response: "I have one and you don't."
I currently have an Accord that I'm paying $90/month for (too much, but I havent't changed my policy--lazy). I asked for a quote for my soon-to-come 325Ci, and I was given a $69/mo. quote ($414 for a 6-month premium). I asked her why it was so inexpensive. She said that it would be insured by CHUBBS (sp?), who ONLY insures higher end vehicles. The 325 qualifies at the lower end of the "high end" scale. I have a clean driving record as well (no tickets in five years)--I regularly drive 85+ mph to work (in a 55 zone). It must be the blue Accord that eludes the fuzz.
I like the 'I' part. I'm wondering what the 'x' is then - could it be just the first 'x' in a sequence of three? That'd be some special AWD system - sign me up )
Thanks for all the encouragement...BTW, anyone here concerned about any higher maintenance costs that I always hear about ...and how golden is that 36 month/36000 mile full-maintenance deal, esp. regarding brakes, alignment, suspension, etc...
BMWNA would even replace your wiper/brakes/whatever if they are worn out over the normal wear. My dealer is saying the first 36K miles will not cost me a single cent in maintenance. The only expense that I can think of is probably replacing the tires at some point around 30K miles.
"The path of the righteous driver is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost souls. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my Bimmer. And you will know my name is Strumpf Muscle/Gretl/Claudia when I lay my vengeance upon thee!"
BTW, what's your take on the steering? Everyone on e46 whines about it and swears you have to get the "fix." My March production steering is lighter than my old heavy 1994 325, which was rock solid on the freeway. but I test drove a 2000 323 and while its steering seemed a little heavier at low speeds it didn't seem that much different on the highway -- although I think it was out of align. I don't think I want to mess with a change.
I had arranged with my dealer to drive back-to-back my week 12 325i SP and a '00 323i with the pre-controversy steering. Subjective as it is, I will try to quantify the steering weight on some cars that I am familiar with (1 is lightest, 10 heaviest)
'97 Porsche 911 ==> 10.0 '00 BMW 323i ==> 8.5 '97 Jetta VR6 ==> 7.5 '01 BMW 325i ==> 6.0 '01 Audi A4 ==> 6.0
My week 12 325i has the patched up steering that is supposed to be heavier than the first '01 cars. All I can say is that the steering in my car is incredibly light and it just doesn't seem to belong in an otherwise athletic, almost masculine car. The steering in the '00 323i felt much heavier with better on-center feel. However, compared to a Porsche 911, even the 323i's steering feels relatively light and it could benefit from a slightly heavier feel. The road feel is only marginally better with the old steering. However, the new steering acutely lacks an on-center feel and esp. cornering feel. The old steering gives you the feeling that even if you let the car straighten its wheels out coming out of an aggressive corner, it will bring the wheels back to their straight position by itself. The new steering simply doesn't let you feel what the car would do by itself and esp. how far you have turned the wheels. The new steering doesn't belong in an otherwise great performance car. It would probably be more appropriate in a whaleboat. BMW sales are up almost double-digits worldwide for '00 and 22% in the U.S. alone. Obviously, most buyers don't have a problem with the light steering. But no true motor sport enthusiast would put up with it. If BMWNA insists on keeping the light steering on future models, it should at the very least offer the heavier, more BMW-esque steering as a no-cost option to its sports enthusiasts. And it should never forget that the sport enthusiasts are the core group that brought recognition and respect to the brand in the first place. Offering retrofits on ALL '01 models that have the patched up light steering would be a good start.
mfeldman - That was back then. I want to emphasize that there is NO noticeable difference in steering precision and/or road feel. It's all about that on-center feel lacking in an otherwise masculine car. Having had the car for 10 days now, I am more used to it; I still want the old steering but I can live with the new one if I can't get the old one for free. For the vast majority of people, the boosted steering is OK - keep in mind that the E46 board is heavily weighted towards enthusiasts, more specifically the younger type.
I apologize for forgetting your prior steering review. Thanks for reposting it. From the other board it sounds like bmw is offering the fix to cars with the new new steering. But it's unclear if it uses new or remanufactured parts. ANd while people seem happy with the fix, we don't know what will happen long term.
Anyway I must be getting old because after 8 years of a 5 speed and heavy steering I've gone step and semi-light. I can use my L5 -S1 and deteriorating rotator cuff as an excuse.
It's whatever makes you happy - that's the key thing. That question has never had a one-size-fits-all type of answer. From what I've read (and I may be wrong) the retrofit has the steering parts directly taken from the older models. That's the only way BMW can quiet down the enthusiasts - everything else would be perceived as a half-hearted attempt. I would not feel bad about mechanics taking my car apart to put in the retrofit - after all, they are putting in BMW components that are true and tried and I am still covered under the warranty. I figure if there's a problem with the retrofit, it should be evident within 3 years.
Actually, the original Smurf cartoonist was Belgian (as were French fries, BTW) and the correct spelling would be Schtroumpf (my wife's correction). So my car is really Schtroumpf Muscle. Muscle is pronounced as in French (muuskl -eeh), so it sound cuter.
Yeah, man - safety in numbers. If we had hundreds of crazy people on the board, that wouldn't make us any less crazy to the outside world, let alone normal. Just safety in numbers )
I want to put a receiver hitch on my car to tow my boat....I mean for my bike rack. Anyone have experience with a bike rack. I dont want to do the roof or trunk thing. I'm sure I'll scratch it...ouch, It hurts to even type that.
I think the hitch should work best but I don't want a big hitch hanging of the rear.
BTW, I saw a new M5 in the parking lot with swirls in the paint. It was painful to see.
Mrpeltyn: On the STEPTRONIC (all in capitals, just like on the window sticker! -For no logical reason) The orange light next to which gear is selected (park, I hope, when you leave the car) stays on for 24 hours and then goes off until you next unlock the vehicle. Cleaning products. Every one has their own personal favorites but I think that, on the whole, any product at the local Pepboys/Kragen/Autoparts type store for its prescribed purpose will do the trick for you. They'll have a car care section with every thing you'll need. Get one of the sales floor people to help you (I appreciate that may seem like a leap of faith if they look the same as they do at my local stores!!).
On the subject of brake sizes/redlines etc, if some on can remind me tomorrow afternoon/early evening, I'll be able to answer those.
Just called BMWNA (Amy) and got on the steering retrofit list. They estimate 1-2 months before they do the retrofit. Fine with me, I'm in no immediate rush.
Thanks (as usual) for the help! I just wanted to be sure that there weren't any cleaning products that would be harmful to BMW's type of paint finish, rims, etc...I thought I saw a post somewhere along the way that mentioned something about ph in the cleaning products...thus not causing microscopic scratching or dulling of the finish.
Comments
1) how do you guys compare the 330i to the Audi's A6 & A4?
2) do you recommend the all wheel for CA weather? what other features are must haves?
thanks for any help
Anyhoo, contrary to what I had previously written (and experienced, or so I thought) the Step WILL upshift in Manual mode, rather than bounce off the rev limiter. This happened today and was rather eye-opening , as I had not anticipated it (I could swear I had "bumped" the limiter before...maybe it depends on which gear you're in? But that wouldn;t make sense...). Regardless, the perfectly seamless shifts occurred at what I judge to be (it happens so quickly!) about 6,350-6,400rpm. I'm not exactly sure what the official redline is, but that's when the shifts occurred, I assume just before the circuitry would intervene and retard ignition timing.
Also, judging by the graduated markings on the tach after 6,000rpm, I would guess the redline to be 6,300rpm. I'm sure the owner's manual would easily clarify, but it's in the glovebox 2 flights of stairs down in the house...perhaps the GURU knows off-hand???
Boy, drove my wife's minivan today after being in an OldsmoBuick rental this weekend...couldn't WAIT to be back in the comfortable, reassuring confines of Gretl (car's name) tonight. Nearly rear-ended some folks today over-estimating the braking abilities of the Caravan Sport!
The brake size I can't answer til I'm back at work on Wednesday pm. That's a "Fast Facts" booklet question.
My 330's name is Claudia (pronounced "CLOW-dee-uh"), for obvious reasons. My wife is a 5'11" tall slender German woman, and she's a little jealous of Claudia. I'm sure they'll learn to co-exist peacefully, but for the time being, the jury's still out.
qtipsquire - I originally wanted the A62.7T (coveted is more like it). Then I drove the 330i. Obviously, I bought the 330i. Much sportier IMO and a bit less money. If size and comfort are your bag, go with the A6. If serious driving excitement is what you're after, the 330 blows doors on the A6. A6 was big and roomy and felt a little wandery/cushioney on the road to me. The 330 feels like a rock. A damn fast, smooth, precise rock.
I'm actually surprised to see v_tech actually left the building. I thought for sure he'd be back. I'm left wondering, "Did that really happen?"
This is a great forum, isn't it? I wish I had more time to spend here, but the 2+ hours a day I already spend is killing me!
Best Regards,
Shipo
It's great to have her back, but it's nice to have the Caravan for dog duty and the like, I admit...everything is so much more of a PRODUCTION (braking, accelerating, cornering), though, whereas Gretl is seamlessly effortless, like an extension of your hands, eyes, and feet...confidence-inspiring to the point of making mediocre drivers good ones; good ones great.
re: body side molding
i think the cars look much better w/body color side molding than the black. the black on silver especially makes the car look cheaper IMO.
re: clears
maybe i'm still not used to it yet, but i think it doesn't look good for bimmers.
Remind me end of next week and we'll look again.
17" wheels,
chrome and body color trim,
halogen fog lamps, heated mirrors and windshield washer jets (PP),
sport suspension (SP),
Titanium trim on front of car,
power seats ($945),
upgraded interior lighting (PP),
front armrest (PP),
aluminum ringed gauges,
on-board computer ($300),
Harmon Kardon stereo ($675).
The priced items total $1,920. The unpriced items are included in packages, not available or separate prices were not available to me. I would estimate the unknown prices to total around $800 to $1,200. If you add the $1,920 for the priced items and the average estimate for unknown prices of $1,000 to the 325i price of $26,990, you get a total of $29,910. This compares to the 330i price of $33,990 giving a difference of $4,080. Note that this is almost exactly $100 for each additional hp.
If both cars are sold at $1,500 over invoice, the difference is less.
BASE OPTIONS INVOICE MARKUP PRICE
$24,450 +$2,487 = $26,937 + $1,500 = $28,437
$30,750 +0 = $30,750 + $1,500 = $32,250
$ 3,813 More for the 330i
Two more factors if you lease. The residual in April for the 330 was 65% and the 325 was about 61%. The money factor was .0021 on the 330 and about .0030 on the 325. This makes a huge difference on the payments (around $150 per for 36 months totaling $5,400). This makes the cost of the 330i $1,587 less than the 325i over a three year lease. $5,400 savings on depreciation and interest on the 330i compared to a $3,813 lower price on the 325i. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE 330 IS CHEAPER THAN THE 325 ON A 3 YEAR LEASE!
I've never had my car below 5,000 feet and I wonder what the power feels like at sea level. I think I'd have to drive nearly 500 miles to get below 1,000 feet of elevation. Would that be the equivelant of two CAI's and Stage 2 chips? Lookout Kansas, here I come!
totally agreed...test drove the A62.7t tonight, and while sweet (great interior), it was cushy. Sort of like the Saab95 aero...very smooth, but not like driving a true car. 330i is so much more fun.
anybody drive this car in the snow with no all wheel?
qtip
1. I have the Steptronic. After I park and get out of the car I notice that the little orange light next to the "P" for Park remains on for a while. Is this normal?
2. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good products I can buy at a local store to clean the outside of the car, interior, rims, etc.? I'd rather just run to a store nearby if possible rather than wait for the products when ordering online.
Thanks a bunch...the car is a lot of fun indeed.
you know what, i don't even know what clear lens is.
And, to be perfectly honest, I really have no problem with normal headlights. I have never been driving and wished, "Damn, I wish these headlights were bright enough to blind oncoming traffic."
So, what gives? Why is everyone crazy about them?
My salesman said that he expects my car will be bumped forward by a week or two because it is a pre-sold car. He said that cars that are ordered for an ordering customer usually get bumped ahead of dealer stock. He said he still expects my car to be built in the last week of May or first week of June.
Week 25 is June 10 to June 15. My salesman says that we have a good chance of getting the cars before June 30 if they are bumped 2 weeks forward to the last week of May, and a fair chance of getting them before June 30 if they are built in the first week of June (between June 3 and June 8).
In light of the very real possibility that I won't be getting my car until after June 30 (the 5.9% financing cut off date) I spoke to the finance supervisor about a special extension, as the BMW NA person told me to.
I ran into a stone wall on this one. She told me flatly that it is impossible to get an extension. Which seems odd, considering that the BMW NA rep told me it was routine.
I think I may have to put on my badass attorney hat now. Letters may have to be written. Threats may have to be made. After all, I am looking at an extra $7 per month on my payment if the interest rate goes up from 5.9% to 6.5%!
$7! A princely sum, I tell you!
They really are nice lights,and for a high performance car they do make sense,in that you can easily "over drive"normal lights at very speeds.But for some,I suspect it's the blue.
qtipsquire: I have had my 330i (no AWD, no SP) since early January here in Cincinnati, where we had our share of snow/ice/freezing rain thru March. I, too, was curious how the RWD would hold up. Surprisingly, the all-seasons (205/50 17" ContiTouring, I believe) held up very well. I rarely even noticed the traction control or DSC intervening in poor conditions. Of course, this is HIGHLY dependent on the driver, too -- I've been driving in poor winter conditions annually for 13 years. Also, if you get the SP, the tires will perform MUCH worse than the all-seasons in the winter stuff, which is why most folks strongly recommend getting a second set of winter wheels/tires with the SP.
Xenon: I agree they are a pretty costly option however, aftermarkets are $900 +. I had to stick w/ a budget so I didn't get them. They do light the path much better and they look great. The BULB replacements are not all that expensive (~20 from what I've read on the board previously). If you need to replace the "power source," that is what costs the bucks. I've also read that the bulbs do last longer than the halogen but it's not like the halogens are burning out left and right.
drcr
xenons - will be standard on cars 5 years from now just like airbags. they illuminate much better (more contrast) and are softer on the eyes. sure, they look cool too and that's part of their appeal but trust me, all new cars will have them soon because they are a far superior technology at ANY speed. the stock ones are regulated properly not to shoot high and blind other drivers but there are always some bozos that would turn them up...hear out shipo on the xenons' advantages - can't go wrong with shipo.
redline - i went through the whole owner's manual last night and i also searched on the net but could not find any reference to the redline. the 320, 325, and 33o all reach max hp at different rpm points and all seem to have the same tach but i suspect that their rev limiter is different. larger engine like the 330 tend to have a lower rev limiter than smaller engines like the 320. not sure why...
links to '02 models - i don't remember where i saw them; will post if i remember. platypus, could you help us with this, please? i downloaded the file, though and can mail it over to those of you that are interested. let's see if platypus can help us first, though - he's very good with that.
lobs - agreed on the lease deal - i pointed that out yesterday; agreed on some options being available on the 330 only - i pointed that out too. the difference between the 325 and 330 pricing will obviously depend on how loaded you buy them. if you are buying, the easiest analysis would be to compare the base models. start with the 7 grand difference. take out the features that the 330 has that the 325 does not like you did. those are about a couple of grand. then you have unpriced stuff like titanium trim on front of car, front armrest and aluminum ringed gauges - they must be worth sth but I would not pay for them anyhow. i personally don't like the armrest and power seats ($945) either - too slow and i'm too young to be sitting in a power seat - still have the physical power to move them myself.
yep, i too love this board just like all of you and i feel that it's been taking a lot of my time. i love it and i'm willing to pay that price as long it's fun and educational
If I had known this in January, I may have waited 3 months to April; The special rates coupled with the 330's revised pricing structure would have likely saved me a couple G's. Oh well -- hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20, and it's easy to justify the non-savings by the 3 months' earlier enjoyment of Gretl alone...
And yes, our next BMW has a strong chance of being named Hansel, assuming the name fits the car's character.
http://www.bimmer.org/3series/messages/archive/msgsy2001w15/89118.html
Actually saw one in Munich. They're not that pretty to look at. IMO, the '02 MBZ sports coupe (C-class hatchback) is much more visually appealing.
jasonkureejii - you are looking at about a 20-30% premium difference in Boston; not sure about other areas and it may vary widely.
As for insurance, I was surprised at how reasonable insuring the 330i is. I think, for my wife and I (26 and 29 years old, respectively) with clean driving records, we pay about a grand/yr, total. This is versus about $600/yr for a nine-year old Camry! Of course, it varies IMMENSELY with geographic location, demographics, driving record, multiple policy discounts, alignment of Jupiter's moons, yada, yada, yada. It's a rigorous statistical process, which is why they hire actuaries: so no one else can question it, let alone figure it out.
At least that gives you an idea relative to another car; the point is that yours may be relatively similar, or significantly different (that pretty much covers the entire range, right?).
Btw she likes the idea of this board so she won't be bored (bad pun) with all the car stuff.
Finally, i should share my wife's best BMW line from several years ago. When considering the purchase of our first bmw we were speculating as to what the "i" stands for in 325i. Her response: "I have one and you don't."
Take Care.
Would kill to see Samuel L. Jackson say that
I had arranged with my dealer to drive back-to-back my week 12 325i SP and a '00 323i with the pre-controversy steering. Subjective as it is, I will try to quantify the steering weight on some cars that I am familiar with (1 is lightest, 10 heaviest)
'97 Porsche 911 ==> 10.0
'00 BMW 323i ==> 8.5
'97 Jetta VR6 ==> 7.5
'01 BMW 325i ==> 6.0
'01 Audi A4 ==> 6.0
My week 12 325i has the patched up steering that is supposed to be heavier than the first '01 cars. All I can say is that the steering in my car is incredibly light and it just doesn't seem to belong in an otherwise athletic, almost masculine car. The steering in the '00 323i felt much heavier with better on-center feel. However, compared to a Porsche 911, even the 323i's steering feels relatively light and it could benefit from a slightly heavier feel. The road feel is only marginally better with the old steering. However, the new steering acutely lacks an on-center feel and esp. cornering feel. The old steering gives you the feeling that even if you let the car straighten its wheels out coming out of an aggressive corner, it will bring the wheels back to their straight position by itself. The new steering simply doesn't let you feel what the car would do by itself and esp. how far you have turned the wheels. The new steering doesn't belong in an otherwise great performance car. It would probably be more appropriate in a whaleboat. BMW sales are up almost double-digits worldwide for '00 and 22% in the U.S. alone. Obviously, most buyers don't have a problem with the light steering. But no true motor sport enthusiast would put up with it. If BMWNA insists on keeping the light steering on future models, it should at the very least offer the heavier, more BMW-esque steering as a no-cost option to its sports enthusiasts. And it should never forget that the sport enthusiasts are the core group that brought recognition and respect to the brand in the first place. Offering retrofits on ALL '01 models that have the patched up light steering would be a good start.
mfeldman - That was back then. I want to emphasize that there is NO noticeable difference in steering precision and/or road feel. It's all about that on-center feel lacking in an otherwise masculine car. Having had the car for 10 days now, I am more used to it; I still want the old steering but I can live with the new one if I can't get the old one for free. For the vast majority of people, the boosted steering is OK - keep in mind that the E46 board is heavily weighted towards enthusiasts, more specifically the younger type.
The 3rd one will come out next week, 5/24, and I think it will show a 3-er, not 100% sure though.
Anyway I must be getting old because after 8 years of a 5 speed and heavy steering I've gone step and semi-light. I can use my L5 -S1 and deteriorating rotator cuff as an excuse.
platypus, would you help us again, please?
Yeah, man - safety in numbers. If we had hundreds of crazy people on the board, that wouldn't make us any less crazy to the outside world, let alone normal. Just safety in numbers
I think the hitch should work best but I don't want a big hitch hanging of the rear.
BTW, I saw a new M5 in the parking lot with swirls in the paint. It was painful to see.
drcr
Cleaning products. Every one has their own personal favorites but I think that, on the whole, any product at the local Pepboys/Kragen/Autoparts type store for its prescribed purpose will do the trick for you. They'll have a car care section with every thing you'll need. Get one of the sales floor people to help you (I appreciate that may seem like a leap of faith if they look the same as they do at my local stores!!).
On the subject of brake sizes/redlines etc, if some on can remind me tomorrow afternoon/early evening, I'll be able to answer those.