Honda chooses to put their money into safety and refinement while Hyundai is betting on someone preferring a cheap price tag and more buttons regardless of how poor the MPG, reliability, safety etc are.
In Canada, a guy name Phil Edmunson publishes something called "Lemon Aid" which is a guide to the best choice for cars , especially used ones. In the early 1980s he called Honda's engines disposable (and was promptly sued by the car maker) Five years later the first generation Acura Legend hit the market.
Hyundai is improving in leaps and bounds.We got their first car, the Pony in 1984. It was horrid but now only twenty model years later they are challenging the Big Three.
Those of use who are old enough remember when buying a Japanese car, and especially a Honda, was because they were cheap with lots of features. Most could not stand up to the heavier driving done on North American roads. The first Toyotas in the late fifties could not reach highway speeds. The first Datsuns would would heat up the passenger compartment regardless of season. The first Civics could barely last 50,000 miles and in Canada most Japanese cars would get rust within two years and perforations within three to four years.
I love my Civic and Corolla but remember my dad in 1972 having to push my neighbours new Corolla down the driveway every cold winter morning to get it started. They have all come a long way and Hyundai is learning fast.
I currently have a 02 Civic LX and love it, great fuel economy, slick 5 speed, and well put together, 12,000km's and no problems, but back when I was learning to drive my parents had an 85 Hyundai Pony, as bad as it was, it is a good benchmark to measure the progress Hyundai has made the past 20 years. I don't think it was sold in the US, their first Hyundai was the Excel I believe, which looking back was an improvement on the Pony.
isellhondas wrote: I guess it remains to be seen whether or not Hyundai will ever be able to retain decent resale value. For the time being, resale on these is dismal. they flop at the auction. I'm not saying they are *bad* cars, they just don't sell well as used cars. But I suppose this could change someday...?
Guess what, isell? Hyundai resale values are "decent" (i.e. non-dismal) right now. Go compare the resale values of Hyundais to all other makes of cars, and you'll see that they compare very well except for the likes of VW, Subaru, Honda, and Toyota. Then look at the resale values for Fords, Mercurys, Buicks, Chevys, Pontiacs, Dodges, Chryslers, Mitsubishis, Suzukis, Kias etc. They are significantly lower in comparison to Hyundais. Hyundai also betters, albeit by a smaller margin, makes like Mazda and Saturn, and is pretty close to Nissan. So while Hyundai resale values are not yet as good as Hondas, I think it is inaccurate to say they are "dismal". Couple "decent" resale values with low acquisition costs, and the TCO proposition for Hyundais can be just as good as a Honda (as I noted in an earlier post). I am sorry for another post about Hyundais here, but when someone (especially an agent of Honda) makes a blanket generalization about Honda's competition that I think is errorneous, I feel compelled to respond.
Excuse me while I attempt to understand why the same people constantly bring up Hyundai in this Honda-specific forum. Could it be because Honda is the benchmark when it comes to current day cars and they have been for a while? I wouldn't completely rule a Hyundai out if I were looking for another car but as long as Honda continues to build cars I like and those cars continue to be problem-free, I can't see myself buying anything else.
I seem to remember you doing the same thing awhile back in the Protege forum, always comparing it to the Honda's. It's a well known fact here in Townhall that you are a Honda lover, which is a good thing. You seem to share my passion for cars, as does your better half. This is by no means a slam, as I know the two of you are very knowledgeable about cars. Sometimes though, I think our passion for the automobile makes us a little less tolerant of other peoples opinions eventhough we have done some of the same things we now find objectionable when others do it also! Just an observation on my part though. Btw, just brought home my new Nissan Sentra this afternoon, and so far, so good!
I recall that it was dunworth's question about why no one was talking about the Civic EX's win in the Edmunds.com comparo that started this thread. Then just because I try to answer his question by mentioning that the EX beat out a Hyundai by less than one point (while noting the EX is a fine car), some people think it's time to start slamming Hyundais in general. So I have to ask: anonymous (and isell et. al.), why do you feel you need to take digs at Hyundais just because they come up in conversation about Civics? Why can't you get over the fact that a competitor of the Civic (one other than the Protege) has received some critical acclaim, and there's room to say good things about other cars while we talk about Civics here?
At least I owned a Protege and was relaying my experiences as they compared to my prior Honda ownership. Furthermore, other posters brought Honda up even more than I did just as they do in the Mazda 6 room. Guess Honda is the benchmark by which all other car owners are measuring their cars. Unfortunately, those comparisons usually come up short in both the realm of public opinion and in the professional auto world.
Saying that the Civic only beat the Elantra by 1 point is irrelevant. It won, plain and simple. Even though it was $4000 more. As Edmunds said, if you want cheap then buy the Hyundai but if you want the best car then buy the Civic. The Civic had a significant advantage in the editor's personal rating (90.6 vs. 53.1), recommended rating (93.8 vs. 65.6), and the 23-point evaluation (81.1 vs. 70.0). Feature content and performance were nearly identical with the Civic having a 3 point advantage in features. The ONLY area in which the Elantra beat the Civic was price (by nearly 30 points) which comprised 30% of the score, higher than any other category, yet the Civic still placed first. Now that's significant.
It's also significant that the Civic has a smaller engine and less HP yet in every category other than 0-60 it outperforms the Elantra while getting much better fuel economy.
When it comes down to it Honda has more experience with building excellent cars and it shows in the refinement, quality, and durability of it's products. Quality is more than just how many trips your car makes to the dealer or how long the warranty is that covers those trips to the dealer. Quality is an overall perception that a car can give you and right now the Civic has it and the Elantra doesn't. That might change one day but for now the Civic is the king of the economy car hill.
I've heard people slam makes like GM for making ABS an option on their cars, but no one makes a peep about not even having the option of ABS on anything but the ultra-high-line EX Civics?
Honda makes pretty good cars, I'll agree with that. But they're not perfect. And to draw people in, they have to use the DX model as an advertising tactic. The idea is to show a car in ads selling for $13,000 (forget the fact that it has no radio or AC) and then sell the $18,000 EX when they get there. Sounds similar to a bait and switch tactic.
Despite that, they're good cars. But for $18,000 I could get a much more comfortable and space-efficient car than a Civic EX. Such as a Hyundai Elantra GT hatch and a couple years worth of gasoline for it.
As far as the comparison goes: they compared a top-of-the-line Civic EX to a bottom of the line Elantra GLS, which would be more comparable to a Civic LX (except you can get ABS with the Elantra). The Elantra GT trim would be more comparable to the Civic EX. And, I dare say, the Elantra might have won the comparison if they had used the GT trim. As a matter of fact, nearly ALL of those cars in that comparison were in their top-of-the-line trims, except the Saturn ION, and the Hyundai Elantra.
Now it speaks well of Honda that its top trim can beat the top trims of the other cars in the comparison. But I know it didn't beat the top-trim Elantra. And I DO know that the TOP-TRIM Civic EX only beat the BASE MODEL Elantra GLS by a mere one point. It makes me wonder where the GT trim would have placed.
Since I am trying to decide between a Civic and an Elantra for my next car right now, information like that would be useful to me. But I'm only considering the top trim line for each model (ABS and hatch, repsectively). Hey Edmunds, why didn't you put an Elantra GT in that comparison instead of the GLS? I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that decision.
I'd also like to see how a Civic EX stacks up against an Elantra GT.
Elantra vs Civic. If that's your choice you have to decide what you value more.
I have owned a 1998 Elantra which is an earlier version of the current car but same platform and engine. The new Elantra is better than the one I had.
Mine was a very good reliable car. I never had a minute's problem and the dealer was good. The Elantra was roomy, it rode well and quality was good. In Canada, Hyundai's resale is about average, beating out many domestic brands. I first drove the Elantra on the autobahn in Germany at 170 kmph - very stable and no squeaks or rattles. The Elantra is a very good car and an excellent value.
But there was no magic when I drove the Elantra.
The Civic (I have the mid grade version with the smaller motor) makes me smile every time I drive it. That to me is more important. I do not care about toys. (I live in Canada but have never needed ABS or ESP etc in the 22 years I have been driving). The price is comparable between a well equipped Elantra and a slightly more spartan Civic but I will take the Civic over any other small car any day.
My other choices for small car would be Corolla (which I also own), Protege, Sentra and Lancer. After than I would choose the Elantra.
Either way you can't lose - just different flavours for different tastes.
I'm glad Hyundai is providing some competition for Honda and Toyota! Don't the studies say the 'big two' are great cars with hard to deal with dealers? The only Korean built car I've driven was Ford's Festiva in the early '90's. Although it was under-powered for me, the build quality and design were great!
I disagree about the resale values of Hyundais at least in my neck of the woods, they get few takers. They go for well below book values as do the other makes you mentioned.
By that regard, they are probably pretty good buys as used cars.
"I disagree about the resale values of Hyundais at least in my neck of the woods, they get few takers. They go for well below book values as do the other makes you mentioned."
May I ask what area you're in. Your flag on Edmunds posts says Norfolk Island.
Sorry. With all due respect, it is actually quite hard to talk about any car without mentioning competition. But your point is well taken - we'll be good.
justin
Only on the more expensive trim levels do they have blue dash lights like the VW.
To be honest, the Civic interior and exterior very much mimic the Jetta. The Jetta is still much nicer and more refined but the Civic has better quality numbers which is important too.
had an 01 Civic EX Coupe - it has orange lights. the blue is a step up. hopefully they did it better than the Elantra GT. that has blue gauges, but still green climate control lights
Mentioning competition is absolutely to be expected in a single-vehicle focused discussion.
But the thing is that this Elantra comparison has come up over and over again here. It is a valid comparison and should be discussed.
But the folks who expect this discussion to be dedicated to the Civic are entitled to have this conversation not continue to go off on an extended tangent about any other vehicle.
"Extended" and "not continue to go off" being the keys there. :-)
The Civic may be more expensive but a quick look at crash test ratings, interior design/quality, EPA ratings, and exterior gap tolerances will tell you where the money went. The Civic isn't the cheapest car on the market, but there's a reason for that. Much as an Accord is more than a Sonata.
And if you add a sunroof and ABS to the Elantra your MSRP goes up to $16,100, only $2000 off the price of the Civic. For that $2000 you are getting increased safety, economy, resale value, and more refinement. Whether that $2000 is worth it only each individual buyer can decide.
I've started a new thread on this in the Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra board, if anyone is interested in picking it up there and leaving this one for the Civic-minded.
Actually the blue dash lights seem very cool at first and a step up over the orange. But you quickly realize how poorly marked the 30, 50, and 70 MPH positions are. Since the guage has only has numerals for 20, 40, 60, etc., a glance at the speedo is frustratingly annoying when one's speed is at 50 and its mark is no bigger than the one at 45 or 55. I'll keep my more legible orange '02 guages thank you.
Mdriver: I have to agree with you about blue dash lights. They are nice looking but very illegible. Both the Passat's and the Elantra GT's blue dash lights look blurry at night and cause my eyes to strain (the difference in color was noticeable since the green console lights in the Elantra were much clearer and didn't cause my eyes to strain). My preference is green or white, but orange and red is good if done right.
I apologize if this has been discussed before; but I'm here in the office and I don't have the convenience of weeding through all of the posts.
My Mother-In-Laws 2000 Civic (LX?)recently had a dead battery and I needed to jump start it. Since then the Radio has a error message which reads "COdE". Anyone know what this is all about and how I can reset it? BTW-the radio is the standard AM/FM/CD player with no special bells and whistles.
I think the radio may have a security feature which makes it think it is stolen if the battery goes dead. I believe there is a special code (usually given with car in the manual) that the dealer can reprogram it with. I believe my '03 Civic has this feature.
Yup, there's a code you need to get your radio working again. 'Twas the case on my '99 and '02 Civics. The code wasn't in the manual; it came on some little stickers that went onto a plastic CC sized slip. Maybe you kept that with your deal paperwork?
bought a new Canadian Honda Civic LX a month ago. today washed the car and noticed that the paint is chipping off in weird areas, like the roof, trunk and doors i'm a very cautious driver, and pretty sure, those weren't stones that caused it. went to the dealership and the service manager agreed that those didn't look like stone chips. i've read many posts about crappy paint on silver civics, but a month after i got the car. thats too much. if anyone had anything like that, please share your expirience. thank you.
Hi Paul. Sorry to hear about the paint on your Civic. My '03 Civic is Green and while I would not say my paint is chipping like yours, it is very delicate and chips easily compared with my previous cars (Saturns) or my wife's '02 Corolla.
The silver colour is hugely popular here in the Toronto area and there are two new silver Civics on my little street. Keep in close contact with your dealer - they may need to do a respray.
FWIW I had a 1998 Hyundai Elantra which had a factory defect in the paint. Hyundai repainted for me free of charge - no problems after that. I heard of Corollas (last generation) which had problems with the light gold paint as well (only the US made ones I think). Good luck.
I sat in a Civic EX sedan for the first time tonight on my quest for a new car. The legroom was fine, but the car felt very low to the ground to me, and there wasn't enough headroom to accommodate my 6'3 frame under the sunroof. Darn being tall...
I know this is the SEDAN thread for Civics, but the threads for the coupes seem to be dead so I thought I'd post in here.
I test drove an '03 LX coupe with the 5 speed manual. If I had to use one word to describe this car it would be "WOW!" Econo boxes sure have come a long way in the last few years, haven't they?
The first thing I noticed was how comfortable the seat was as soon as I sat in it. The next thing I noticed was the solid "thump" the door made when I closed it. It didn't take long to realize this car is very tightly built throughout. It may never have any squeaks or rattles.
The clutch pedal required little pressure to push to the floor and operated very predictably during driving. The shifter was also as smooth as silk. Though the lever is short and has fairly short throw, I never selected the incorrect gear....a first for me on a test drive.
I expected the engine performance to be dull, but I was actually quite suprised how well the car does with just 115 hp. With 2 of us in the car (myself and the salesman), the engine pulled smoothly throughout the entire rpm range. I was able to drive the car on the highway and it handled 80 mph more like a much larger car. It felt very solid at these speeds. Though the engine didn't provide sports car-like acceleration, it certainly wasn't underpowered either. Maybe I was expecting it to be a dog, and when it wasn't, it suprised me.
Overall, I can see why the Civic is so popular, and why it receives so much praise. It is a very nice car with little to complain about. The only thing I can really complain about so far is the lack of interior color choices. I absolutely love the Rally Red, but I'm not crazy about black interiors. I like the look of black, but it gets so stinkin' hot in the summer. I wish Honda offered the the Rally Red with the beige interior. Also I haven't decided weather to go with the LX or the DX trim level. I really don't care about having power windows and power locks, and I'll be installing my own aftermarket sound system, so I don't know if the LX is really worth the extra $3K to me.
Hi, I too tested a Civic Coupe this past weekend. It was a silver 2002 DX with approximately 10,000 miles on it. I was impressed as well. I thought the driving position/seats were excellent. I am 6'3", 205 lbs and was very comfortable. I was very impressed with the quality of the seats. Thought they were made of very high quality. The A/C worked GREAT, as it was a hot day. I looked over the entire vehicle with a fine tooth comb and came away impressed with the overall fit & finish/paint quality.
I loved the dashboard design/overall interior. It had the black/charcoal interior. The steering wheel/dashboard looked nice. I noticed -0- rattles while test driving the car. One thing that I did not like was the absence of a tachometer. Just the DX model lacks the tach.
Handling & acceleration were fine, not a HP rocket but good, especially compared to my former 92 Civic CX with it's 70 HP motor. I thought the road noise was a little on the high side but that may be due somewhat to the OEM Firestone tires. I have read previous posts on here stating that they are somewhat noisy.
I am seriously thinking of making an offer on the car. It has only 10,000 miles and has over 2 years left on the 3 year warranty. I could save roughly $4,000 over the price of a new DX, although I would truly prefer an SI hatch. New Honda Alloy Wheels/Tires and a spoiler would really make the car look good though.
You will both love owning this car. The Civic is one of the best cars on the road regardless of price, which is why it is so popular. Like the more expensive 3-series BMW is for the sport sedan category, the Civic is an industry benchmark for what small cars should be.
Where I live outside of Toronto most of the homes are $350 K to nearly $1 million (most of my neighbours are also mortgage free) and there are many newer Civics in the area. Obviously these people can afford more but realize that many more expensive cars are not necessarily better. The Civic represents a nearly perfect balance of attributes that are desirable in a car. It has unpretentious crisp styling, very high quality, lots of room, great fuel economy, low maintenance costs, high resale and is environmentally friendly (my 2003 is a ULEV).
To be perfect, I would want the car to be built more like the Corolla which is more solid but less engaging to drive.
I'm going to buy a new Civic next month and I'm trying to decide between the LX and the EX. I haven't driven either of the two models yet, but does the VTEC engine in the EX really make much of a difference (it's only 12 more HP). Is it any more durable or reliable than the standard engine found in the LX and DX models or are there any other major advantages to it? I guess the variable valve timing in the VTEC is a plus?
Anyway, the moonroof, ABS, keyless entry, and 15" alloy wheels would be nice on the EX...although the LX is nicely-equipped too. I'd probably be happy in either car.
Me thinks I need to test drive both of these models and then make up my mind! Anyway, I'm enjoying all of the posts here and am learning a lot.
I bought an EX sedan about 2 months ago. I test drove both the LX and EX and I felt the EX drove alot better. Maybe the 15" wheels are the difference...One thing I did do is upgrade the crappy factory Firestone FR690's for Firestone LH30's.
I've got the same dilemma, only mine's deciding between the DX and LX. The difference in tires isn't an issue for me as I plan to go with 17" tires and aftermarket wheels anyway. The stereo system isn't a factor either as I will install my own. The things I really like about the LX over the DX is cruise control, air, and the tach.
One thing I haven't quite been able to figure out is why there's so much of a difference between Edmund's TMV price for the LX, and the prices I'm actually seeing at the dealerships. The TMV price for the DX seems to be right on the money. The TMV for the DX is $13.2K. I've actually found a few dealers selling the DX in the high 12's. The TMV price for the LX is $14.3K, and most of the dealers I've checked with are selling them in the low 16's. Why is the price so high on the LX's? Could it be the LX is the most popular trim package and the dealers are gouging simply because they can? If I could buy an LX for about $1K more than the DX as the TMV says the price should be, I'd probably go ahead and get the LX. But there's no way I'm paying $3K more for an LX than a DX.
Low 16's seems real high for an LX, that's close to MSRP. As rivertown says, if you do some hard negotiating you should be able to get the price down--maybe hint that you might walk over to your neighborhood Hyundai dealer and pick up an Elantra GLS for around $10k (not that you would, but the dealer doesn't know that). Also, if you can wait a few months, prices should come down considerably for the end-of-model-year clearance sales this fall. Last year at that time I saw EXes advertised around $15k.
Seems I've found a new brick wall to run into. I'm searching the dealers in the Denver and surrounding areas. Out of all the dealer's inventories I've searched, I've only found 1 LX coupe with a 5 speed in Rallye red with no additional options. The problem is this dealer is asking asking $1400 over TMV price. It seems that almost all of the LX's I'm finiding have additional options, the most prominant being side air bags. A salesman from John Elway Honda emailed me and said they could get me one for $14,449. I emailed them back and told them Edmund's TMV price was $14,069 and their price was too high. Haven't heard back from them on that one.
aren't that expensive on the Civic and add some measure of safety. Might help resale also. If there's more of those around, maybe dealers would be more likely to deal on them.
I can wait for the model year end clearances, I'm in no hurry. Because I'm looking for an LX with no options, this seems to be adding to the difficulty of finding what I want. It seems almost all of the LX's have some additional options. Maybe if I wait until they're trying to make room for the 2004's, I might be able to find one with some additional options priced lower than a base LX is now because they'll be trying extra hard to move them.
Something else I've noticed is these dealers don't list the specific options these Civics have. The only options they have listed are auto tranny and side air bags, which certainly doesn't justify a price of over $16K. Makes me wonder if they're equipped with other options or they're just price gouging.
If there's any way you can swing it, I would try to get the LX over the DX. Several years ago, I bought a DX Accord over an LX because I wanted to save a little money. But after about 9 months in the DX, I really regretted the fact that I didn't have power windows, power locks, power mirrors and wished I'd have spent the extra $3K to get the LX.
If you're planning to keep your DX Civic for more than a few years, I think you'll one day regret not going with the LX. So keep shopping around and maybe you can find an LX with no options. If not, I'd spend the extra money (if you have it) and go with the cheapest LX you can find. Manual mirrors, manual locks, and manual windows get old really fast.
If/when you're really ready to buy, you might want to look at the Si. For a while, they weren't selling well at all - i.e. sub-EX prices with negotiation.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I really don't like the looks of the Si. I've already pretty much made my mind up to go with an LX. As much as I like plain, the DX may even be too plain for me. I really like the backlit gages, tach, air, and cruise. All features the DX doesn't have.
One of the Denver dealers I heard from yesterday contacted me again today. After he quoted me a price of $15.3K for an LX, I replied and told him about the Edmunds TMV price of $14K. He replied back again and magically remembered about $1500 cash back on this vehicle (I've never heard of that much cash back from Honda for any of their vehicles), now making the price $13.8K. Looks to me like these dealers have their prices jacked up, but are willing to come down if you play hard ball with them. In fact, I doubt there is any cash back. They probably just had the price jacked so high, they didn't want me to think they were price gouging with their asking price. The only incentive I've heard of on the Civic recently is 1.9% financing. If they're willing to move on the price now, I might be able to get a very good price when they start making room for the 04's.
I think you're right, there's no "cash back" on Civics such as rebates. There is the 1.9% financing and maybe there is some way for dealers to offer a discount in lieu of the special financing. Or there may be Honda-to-dealer incentives, which would not be published. At any rate, now you're getting into the realm of a real deal. If you can wait awhile, you should be able to get a great deal. Last January I poked around at Civic coupes and found one dealer in town with over 60 '02 LX and EX coupes, with great deals on them. '04 will be the fourth year of the current generation, and that's the year Honda typically makes mid-generation tweaks to styling etc. So that could mean even better deals on the '03s.
Comments
For the time being, resale on these is dismal. they flop at the auction.
I'm not saying they are *bad* cars, they just don't sell well as used cars.
But I suppose this could change someday...?
35 years ago, 'made in Japan' meant 'junk', VW meant rock solid durability, and Detroit iron meant performance.
With the efficiency of today's market, Hyundai resale could change even more quickly.
Hyundai is improving in leaps and bounds.We got their first car, the Pony in 1984. It was horrid but now only twenty model years later they are challenging the Big Three.
Those of use who are old enough remember when buying a Japanese car, and especially a Honda, was because they were cheap with lots of features. Most could not stand up to the heavier driving done on North American roads. The first Toyotas in the late fifties could not reach highway speeds. The first Datsuns would would heat up the passenger compartment regardless of season. The first Civics could barely last 50,000 miles and in Canada most Japanese cars would get rust within two years and perforations within three to four years.
I love my Civic and Corolla but remember my dad in 1972 having to push my neighbours new Corolla down the driveway every cold winter morning to get it started. They have all come a long way and Hyundai is learning fast.
I guess it remains to be seen whether or not Hyundai will ever be able to retain decent resale value.
For the time being, resale on these is dismal. they flop at the auction.
I'm not saying they are *bad* cars, they just don't sell well as used cars.
But I suppose this could change someday...?
Guess what, isell? Hyundai resale values are "decent" (i.e. non-dismal) right now. Go compare the resale values of Hyundais to all other makes of cars, and you'll see that they compare very well except for the likes of VW, Subaru, Honda, and Toyota. Then look at the resale values for Fords, Mercurys, Buicks, Chevys, Pontiacs, Dodges, Chryslers, Mitsubishis, Suzukis, Kias etc. They are significantly lower in comparison to Hyundais. Hyundai also betters, albeit by a smaller margin, makes like Mazda and Saturn, and is pretty close to Nissan. So while Hyundai resale values are not yet as good as Hondas, I think it is inaccurate to say they are "dismal". Couple "decent" resale values with low acquisition costs, and the TCO proposition for Hyundais can be just as good as a Honda (as I noted in an earlier post). I am sorry for another post about Hyundais here, but when someone (especially an agent of Honda) makes a blanket generalization about Honda's competition that I think is errorneous, I feel compelled to respond.
This is by no means a slam, as I know the two of you are very knowledgeable about cars. Sometimes though, I think our passion for the automobile makes us a little less tolerant of other peoples opinions eventhough we have done some of the same things we now find objectionable when others do it also!
Just an observation on my part though.
Btw, just brought home my new Nissan Sentra this afternoon, and so far, so good!
The Sandman :-)
Saying that the Civic only beat the Elantra by 1 point is irrelevant. It won, plain and simple. Even though it was $4000 more. As Edmunds said, if you want cheap then buy the Hyundai but if you want the best car then buy the Civic. The Civic had a significant advantage in the editor's personal rating (90.6 vs. 53.1), recommended rating (93.8 vs. 65.6), and the 23-point evaluation (81.1 vs. 70.0). Feature content and performance were nearly identical with the Civic having a 3 point advantage in features. The ONLY area in which the Elantra beat the Civic was price (by nearly 30 points) which comprised 30% of the score, higher than any other category, yet the Civic still placed first. Now that's significant.
It's also significant that the Civic has a smaller engine and less HP yet in every category other than 0-60 it outperforms the Elantra while getting much better fuel economy.
When it comes down to it Honda has more experience with building excellent cars and it shows in the refinement, quality, and durability of it's products. Quality is more than just how many trips your car makes to the dealer or how long the warranty is that covers those trips to the dealer. Quality is an overall perception that a car can give you and right now the Civic has it and the Elantra doesn't. That might change one day but for now the Civic is the king of the economy car hill.
I've heard people slam makes like GM for making ABS an option on their cars, but no one makes a peep about not even having the option of ABS on anything but the ultra-high-line EX Civics?
Honda makes pretty good cars, I'll agree with that. But they're not perfect. And to draw people in, they have to use the DX model as an advertising tactic. The idea is to show a car in ads selling for $13,000 (forget the fact that it has no radio or AC) and then sell the $18,000 EX when they get there. Sounds similar to a bait and switch tactic.
Despite that, they're good cars. But for $18,000 I could get a much more comfortable and space-efficient car than a Civic EX. Such as a Hyundai Elantra GT hatch and a couple years worth of gasoline for it.
As far as the comparison goes: they compared a top-of-the-line Civic EX to a bottom of the line Elantra GLS, which would be more comparable to a Civic LX (except you can get ABS with the Elantra). The Elantra GT trim would be more comparable to the Civic EX. And, I dare say, the Elantra might have won the comparison if they had used the GT trim. As a matter of fact, nearly ALL of those cars in that comparison were in their top-of-the-line trims, except the Saturn ION, and the Hyundai Elantra.
Now it speaks well of Honda that its top trim can beat the top trims of the other cars in the comparison. But I know it didn't beat the top-trim Elantra. And I DO know that the TOP-TRIM Civic EX only beat the BASE MODEL Elantra GLS by a mere one point. It makes me wonder where the GT trim would have placed.
Since I am trying to decide between a Civic and an Elantra for my next car right now, information like that would be useful to me. But I'm only considering the top trim line for each model (ABS and hatch, repsectively). Hey Edmunds, why didn't you put an Elantra GT in that comparison instead of the GLS? I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that decision.
I'd also like to see how a Civic EX stacks up against an Elantra GT.
I have owned a 1998 Elantra which is an earlier version of the current car but same platform and engine. The new Elantra is better than the one I had.
Mine was a very good reliable car. I never had a minute's problem and the dealer was good. The Elantra was roomy, it rode well and quality was good. In Canada, Hyundai's resale is about average, beating out many domestic brands. I first drove the Elantra on the autobahn in Germany at 170 kmph - very stable and no squeaks or rattles. The Elantra is a very good car and an excellent value.
But there was no magic when I drove the Elantra.
The Civic (I have the mid grade version with the smaller motor) makes me smile every time I drive it. That to me is more important. I do not care about toys. (I live in Canada but have never needed ABS or ESP etc in the 22 years I have been driving). The price is comparable between a well equipped Elantra and a slightly more spartan Civic but I will take the Civic over any other small car any day.
My other choices for small car would be Corolla (which I also own), Protege, Sentra and Lancer.
After than I would choose the Elantra.
Either way you can't lose - just different flavours for different tastes.
The only Korean built car I've driven was Ford's Festiva in the early '90's. Although it was under-powered for me, the build quality and design were great!
I disagree about the resale values of Hyundais at least in my neck of the woods, they get few takers. They go for well below book values as do the other makes you mentioned.
By that regard, they are probably pretty good buys as used cars.
May I ask what area you're in. Your flag on Edmunds posts says Norfolk Island.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Please go to Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra with further comments on this subject.
Thanks.
Sorry. With all due respect, it is actually quite hard to talk about any car without mentioning competition. But your point is well taken - we'll be good.
justin
Only on the more expensive trim levels do they have blue dash lights like the VW.
To be honest, the Civic interior and exterior very much mimic the Jetta. The Jetta is still much nicer and more refined but the Civic has better quality numbers which is important too.
But the thing is that this Elantra comparison has come up over and over again here. It is a valid comparison and should be discussed.
But the folks who expect this discussion to be dedicated to the Civic are entitled to have this conversation not continue to go off on an extended tangent about any other vehicle.
"Extended" and "not continue to go off" being the keys there. :-)
And if you add a sunroof and ABS to the Elantra your MSRP goes up to $16,100, only $2000 off the price of the Civic. For that $2000 you are getting increased safety, economy, resale value, and more refinement. Whether that $2000 is worth it only each individual buyer can decide.
My Mother-In-Laws 2000 Civic (LX?)recently had a dead battery and I needed to jump start it. Since then the Radio has a error message which reads "COdE". Anyone know what this is all about and how I can reset it? BTW-the radio is the standard AM/FM/CD player with no special bells and whistles.
Thanks all for you help. Truly appreciate it.
The code wasn't in the manual; it came on some little stickers that went onto a plastic CC sized slip. Maybe you kept that with your deal paperwork?
The silver colour is hugely popular here in the Toronto area and there are two new silver Civics on my little street. Keep in close contact with your dealer - they may need to do a respray.
FWIW I had a 1998 Hyundai Elantra which had a factory defect in the paint. Hyundai repainted for me free of charge - no problems after that. I heard of Corollas (last generation) which had problems with the light gold paint as well (only the US made ones I think). Good luck.
I test drove an '03 LX coupe with the 5 speed manual. If I had to use one word to describe this car it would be "WOW!" Econo boxes sure have come a long way in the last few years, haven't they?
The first thing I noticed was how comfortable the seat was as soon as I sat in it. The next thing I noticed was the solid "thump" the door made when I closed it. It didn't take long to realize this car is very tightly built throughout. It may never have any squeaks or rattles.
The clutch pedal required little pressure to push to the floor and operated very predictably during driving. The shifter was also as smooth as silk. Though the lever is short and has fairly short throw, I never selected the incorrect gear....a first for me on a test drive.
I expected the engine performance to be dull, but I was actually quite suprised how well the car does with just 115 hp. With 2 of us in the car (myself and the salesman), the engine pulled smoothly throughout the entire rpm range. I was able to drive the car on the highway and it handled 80 mph more like a much larger car. It felt very solid at these speeds. Though the engine didn't provide sports car-like acceleration, it certainly wasn't underpowered either. Maybe I was expecting it to be a dog, and when it wasn't, it suprised me.
Overall, I can see why the Civic is so popular, and why it receives so much praise. It is a very nice car with little to complain about. The only thing I can really complain about so far is the lack of interior color choices. I absolutely love the Rally Red, but I'm not crazy about black interiors. I like the look of black, but it gets so stinkin' hot in the summer. I wish Honda offered the the Rally Red with the beige interior. Also I haven't decided weather to go with the LX or the DX trim level. I really don't care about having power windows and power locks, and I'll be installing my own aftermarket sound system, so I don't know if the LX is really worth the extra $3K to me.
I too tested a Civic Coupe this past weekend. It was a silver 2002 DX with approximately 10,000 miles on it. I was impressed as well. I thought the driving position/seats were excellent. I am 6'3", 205 lbs and was very comfortable. I was very impressed with the quality of the seats. Thought they were made of very high quality. The A/C worked GREAT, as it was a hot day. I looked over the entire vehicle with a fine tooth comb and came away impressed with the overall fit & finish/paint quality.
I loved the dashboard design/overall interior. It had the black/charcoal interior. The steering wheel/dashboard looked nice. I noticed -0- rattles while test driving the car. One thing that I did not like was the absence of a tachometer. Just the DX model lacks the tach.
Handling & acceleration were fine, not a HP rocket but good, especially compared to my former 92 Civic CX with it's 70 HP motor. I thought the road noise was a little on the high side but that may be due somewhat to the OEM Firestone tires. I have read previous posts on here stating that they are somewhat noisy.
I am seriously thinking of making an offer on the car. It has only 10,000 miles and has over 2 years left on the 3 year warranty. I could save roughly $4,000 over the price of a new DX, although I would truly prefer an SI hatch. New Honda Alloy Wheels/Tires and a spoiler would really make the car look good though.
Where I live outside of Toronto most of the homes are $350 K to nearly $1 million (most of my neighbours are also mortgage free) and there are many newer Civics in the area. Obviously these people can afford more but realize that many more expensive cars are not necessarily better. The Civic represents a nearly perfect balance of attributes that are desirable in a car. It has unpretentious crisp styling, very high quality, lots of room, great fuel economy, low maintenance costs, high resale and is environmentally friendly (my 2003 is a ULEV).
To be perfect, I would want the car to be built more like the Corolla which is more solid but less engaging to drive.
Anyway, the moonroof, ABS, keyless entry, and 15" alloy wheels would be nice on the EX...although the LX is nicely-equipped too. I'd probably be happy in either car.
Me thinks I need to test drive both of these models and then make up my mind! Anyway, I'm enjoying all of the posts here and am learning a lot.
One thing I haven't quite been able to figure out is why there's so much of a difference between Edmund's TMV price for the LX, and the prices I'm actually seeing at the dealerships. The TMV price for the DX seems to be right on the money. The TMV for the DX is $13.2K. I've actually found a few dealers selling the DX in the high 12's. The TMV price for the LX is $14.3K, and most of the dealers I've checked with are selling them in the low 16's. Why is the price so high on the LX's? Could it be the LX is the most popular trim package and the dealers are gouging simply because they can? If I could buy an LX for about $1K more than the DX as the TMV says the price should be, I'd probably go ahead and get the LX. But there's no way I'm paying $3K more for an LX than a DX.
If you're planning to keep your DX Civic for more than a few years, I think you'll one day regret not going with the LX. So keep shopping around and maybe you can find an LX with no options. If not, I'd spend the extra money (if you have it) and go with the cheapest LX you can find. Manual mirrors, manual locks, and manual windows get old really fast.
One of the Denver dealers I heard from yesterday contacted me again today. After he quoted me a price of $15.3K for an LX, I replied and told him about the Edmunds TMV price of $14K. He replied back again and magically remembered about $1500 cash back on this vehicle (I've never heard of that much cash back from Honda for any of their vehicles), now making the price $13.8K. Looks to me like these dealers have their prices jacked up, but are willing to come down if you play hard ball with them. In fact, I doubt there is any cash back. They probably just had the price jacked so high, they didn't want me to think they were price gouging with their asking price. The only incentive I've heard of on the Civic recently is 1.9% financing. If they're willing to move on the price now, I might be able to get a very good price when they start making room for the 04's.