Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

vwguild · October 2001

The dealer is correct regarding Money Factor &
Residual, although they can RAISE The Factor they cannot lower it...The residual is, indeed, fixed.

I would suggest you fix your price first and then
determine the financial instrument second...

kb123 · October 2001

I only purchased in Rochester Hills & have had service in Kansas City area, so hope this helps.
My husband Reallys likes the Passat...although I am trying to get him to trade in what w/interest rates @ 0 or low %.
Good luck in your auto venture. kb123

mike767 · October 2001

Three days old and 250 miles on my new 1.8t tip Passat and the problems have already started. My check engine light went on after 85 miles of driving the car from the show room. The gas cap was on tight(usual culprit). Two days later I took the car to my VW dealership to see what was the problem. They told me it was the secondary air pump. After an hour they cam back to me and told me there was a wiring problem with the car and the tech called it an electrical nightmare.

I enjoyed driving this car and hope too soon, but with its current reliability, it looks like the lemon law will come into effect and go back to a car brand(Toyota) that has never let me down in 9 years of ownership.

teo · October 2001

What kind of electrical problem the tech was referring to?

Sorry to hear about your problems with your new car...frustrating to say the least.

gymshoe · October 2001

is $30k a good price for a GLX 4Motion?
i just found out from a dealer around the Seattle area and there are no GLS V6 4Motions anywhere in the area and won't be getting any for 2-3 months.....so i gotta settle for either a normal GLS V6 or a GLX 4motion.
argh...but they said i could get a GLX 4Motion for a little less than 30k....like only a couple hundred dollars less.

vwguild · October 2001

for $30K you should not have to settle for
anything...

gymshoe · October 2001

okay..perhaps settling for a glx was not the right wording. The dealer was quite nice about it. They said they didn't have and couldn't locate any 02 gls v6 4motions, and asked if i was sure i needed the 4motion, cause i would be able to save a bundle if i didn't really need it. I don't often hear dealers trying to persuade me to a less expensive car. They didn't even mention the glx 4motions...i asked.
so...if i decided to enrich my life and empty my pocketbook for a glx 4motion....is $30k for the car a good price?

vwguild · October 2001

Yes...

bjbird2 · October 2001

The best advice is to stop chatting on the cellphone and do what you should be doing, DRIVING! Of course you can't drive a 5-speed and chat. Most people can't drive an automatic and talk on the phone.

cupholder1 · October 2001

If you're using a hands free headset (like you should), a manual won't make a bit of a difference.

cupholder1 · October 2001

VWGuild:

I was wondering if you could explain why I am having a devil of a time finding a five speed manual Passat. When I got my current Passat in '98, it seemed like there were a lot of five speeds sitting on the lots. It also seemed like there were a lot of stripper Passats available. They now seem to be totally loaded up with options.

Do people just not want manuals these days?

And what's the deal with the '02 GTI having more horsepower and torque than the Passat?

car_nut1 · October 2001

keep us posted as to how the dealer/sevice mgr is taking care of your problem. Also you may want to re-post in the maint./repair section. Good luck.

vwguild · October 2001

I believe the *shortage* of 5 Speeds is the result
of two things...Current product planning has
always been based upon sales statistics from the
previous year...If Automatics, for example, were out of favor
in the previous year; fewer are built the following year. This has been particularly true
with Jettas, and Passat as well, but, to a lesser degree.

The second component is that Dealerships have not
been ordering as many...This is where the shortage
of 5 Speed Passats REALLY begins...As a rule the
same folks that TRAIN & EDUCATE the SALES STAFFS,
that are loved and revered by all here, are the
same people that order the cars...If there is no
understanding of Brand/Model identification then
the approach is simple...Order Silver Cars!!!!

I have two friends that order cars for their
stores and these two guys have a real handle on the process, but after that I cannot name one.

As of the 1st of the year the car ordering process
will fall fully on the shoulders of the Dealership. Volkswagen Dealers will be required to
forecast and order directly from Germany. Our
*PVP System*(Preferred Vehicle Plan) will have finally been completed. Those Dealers that fail
to grasp the sincerity of the Corporate Plan will
feel the pain. Brand Standards will force Dealers
to be not only responsible for the cars in their Inventory, but
the appearance of the Dealership, the quality of
the Sales & Service Staff & Facilities. Those that
comply will continue to reap the success of the
Brand, and those that refuse will go away; for they will be denied Product, Incentive Dollars,
participation in Special Financing, and Corporate
Support.

The GTI is a Sports Car...

cupholder1 · October 2001

The GTI is a lot of fun to drive, but I really prefer the four door model since I use my back seat alot -- not so much for passengers as simply a place to toss junk in. Be nice if VW made the four door Golf as a GTI as well.

I would figure there to be more demand for a Passat in stick shift because (1) It is a European car, and you're supposed to drive a European car in stick (2) The 1.8T engine can't truly be enjoyed in an automatic.

But what you're saying makes sense... it is the dealerships that are responsible for only ordering manuals loaded with every option when it would seem that manual shifters would have less use for such "goodies", only having silvers, etc.

vwguild · October 2001

Have you investigated the BORA/JETTA Wagon/Variant? This is a German built rebadged &
US Speced product that I think you might really
enjoy...It is available with a 180HP 1.8L Turbo,
the 174HP VR6, and the TDI.

All can be equipped with a 5 Speed and whatever
options you want or not...

teo · October 2001

The Jetta wagon has the same problem as the Jetta sedan: NO LEG ROOM FOR BACK SEAT RIDERS!!!

What's up with that?

The wagon is supposed to be a more family oriented vehicle, but where the Jetta/Bora wagon fails miserably is the non existance of rear leg room. At least VW could have stretched the wheelbase 2 or 3 inches to address this problem.

Otherwise I like it a lot and a good alternative to the bigger and pricier Passat. I like the fact that unlike its Jetta sedan siblings, the Jetta wagon is actually built in Germany not in Mexico or Brazil like the Golf.

I'll wait for the next Generation Jetta (Jetta/Bora VI?) to see if VW finally gets the message thru their thick skulls that a four door car or wagon has to have REAL and USEFUL amounts of rear leg room and headroom. This is not Europe, this is North America and things in this regard are a bit different.

This is one weak area in regards to most "moderately" priced German cars that I have seen. The Asians and the Americans seem to understand the concept of interior space a lot better than our allies from the Old continent.

cupholder1 · October 2001

Are the current VW financing/leasing incentives going away at the end of this month?

vwguild · October 2001

have you had your Prozac yet this morning???
*cupholder1* specifically said "not so much for
passengers, but for junk"...hence my suggestion.

I believe that the Jetta Wagon is a Great Car for active singles or a couple with no kids that
do stuff...Is it a Family Wagon? not to me... The
step up to a Passat is relatively small...But for
economy, a lot of fun, a lot of room for *stuff* it is a Great Value.

cupholder1 · October 2001

Thanks for the suggestion... I am going to check it out. "Sport Wagons" seem to be the next big thing these days. The Passat Wagon looks a bit too much like a soccer mom boat for my tastes, but I am sure the Jetta would have a more sporty taste to it.

mckinney2 · October 2001

Like mike767, I too have had "check engine" problems. My dealer says this is a "known problem" and that VW is working on a fix. I'm skeptical and am already reviewing Wisconsin Lemon Law. Too bad, because it's a great car and fun to drive. Any others of you out there with similar problems?

vwguild · October 2001

Technically, yes...My current Rate Sheets expire
at the close of business tomorrow. However; I fully expect them to be continued at least through November, and probably until the end of the Quarter...This will occur on a month by month basis...I will get new Rate Sheets on Thursday
morning...

fred142 · October 2001

Peter,
I just wanted to thank you for the time that you take to patiently answer our questions and address our concerns. You certainly don't have to, but you do anyway. I, for one, am very grateful. I think most of us VW owners are just frustrated with with the dealer service network. When the dealerships decided that customer service is important enough to them, then I'll consider buying another VW.

vwguild · October 2001

Thank you for the kind words...The improvement in
the quality of Service is being addressed, and
although it may not be visable quite yet, it will
most certainly become a reality.

VWOA has been aware of this for some time now...the New Warranty Package, which has been in
the works for some time is just the tip of the
iceberg...the elimination of Free Scheduled Service will go along way toward the improvement
in Scheduling of Service Appointments, and the
soon to be released *Brand Standards* policy package will further underline Volkswagen AG's
commitment to the Customer and our New Products.

teo · October 2001

Don't get me wrong I like the VW Jetta wagon, but I do have a problem paying $21K for a station wagon on which only pets, elfs and children can ride in the back seat. The Jetta wagon is nice, but it is no sports car. Station wagon buyers do expect some useable interior and cargo room. If I want a "chick" car to impress my neighboors and I don't need to sit people in the back, I get a Bettle or a GTI.

So in the end if I can't seat 2 or 3 adults comfortably in the back seat of the Jetta wagon, this car then has seriously missed the target.

Very beautiful car, but it needs more leg room, not too much to ask to the German engineering gurus, or is it?

cupholder1 · October 2001

adults over 6 feet are generally uncomfortable in the back of just about any sedan/wagon with the exception of Cadillac. Usually either the leg room is horrible, or the back seat roof slants, forcing the neck to be cranked... The back seat of a Passat is fairly comfortable as things go.

Anyhow, VWGuild was basically answering my post wherein I stated that I'd like something like the GTI, but with four doors. Seems like the wagon fits the bill.

Added benefit of four door is much lower insurance rates.

dave1363 · October 2001

I'm currently in the market for a new car, to replace my more than reliable Toyota Corolla. I was looking in the $25,000 to $30,000 range and I've been test driving the Passat, New Camry and Maxima. I liked the the way the Passat drove the best but found it to be a little small. Although, the numerous features could sway my decision in favor of the Passat not to mention, the Excellent crash test ratings. But the real issue is that I've read alot on this website about problems with the Passat and bad dealer service. I spoke to my neighbor who owns a 2001 Passat and is very happy. No problems. Another friend of mine owns a 2000 Passat and has had nothing but the same exact problems mentioned on this board. Especially with the electrical system. Her turn signal lights would burn out over and over again. She also had problems with her key getting jammed in the ignition. She also said the service from VolksWagen was horrendous and they made her wait 3 weeks for service.
Have they fixed these issues with the 2002 models? If so, has there been any upgrades in their service departments? Should I expect the 2002 to be problem free?

dave1363 · October 2001

As a follow up to my last entry. A friend of mine works at a VW dealership and he gave me a price of $28,354 for a 2002 GLX with CD player. With taxes and tags the lease price would be $430 per month. Has anyone neogotiated a better price? This price is $700 less than CarDirect offers.

teo · October 2001

For how long is the lease? 36 or 48 Months? Inceptions? Money factor? Residual value? Mileage limitations?

stgreen · October 2001

i have the v6 glx and my wife has the 1.8T so we love them. i do triathlons and my tri-bike fits in the back with the seats folded down. (NO rack needed!!) that was a big concern.

they drive great. but i commute and the v6 even on the highway, doesnt get great milage and the fuel tank is pretty small, but these are not usually decisions (well the tank at least) that cause people to buy or not buy cars...

anyway, buy what you like the best.

hope it helps...
stg

cupholder1 · October 2001

I have had a lot of different little things go wrong with my Passat over three years of ownership (guages, windows, squealing noises, oil burning). In that sense, the car has been unreliable. On the other hand, the Passat has never left me stranded. In fact, most of the reliability complaints I see posted are about annoying problems, not problems that will leave you stranded. Also, after three years, all I need is a $10 carwash to make my car look brand new. So the interior materials and exterior paint are of exceptionally high quality IMHO. Japanese cars seem to show their age fairly quickly, on the other hand.

I certainly won't vouch for long term reliability of a VW... I am actually looking to get out of my current lease now and perhaps into a brand new Passat just so I can get back on warranty.

The bottom line is that just about any European make is going to be less reliable than a Japanese car. Japanese cars, though, tend to be fairly boring. American cars are unreliable AND boring. So, take your pick.

Finally, dealer service for VW is noted to be poor. They keep your car for a long time and often don't give a free loaner. Okay, so you have a couple of choices: spend 10k + more for lux make that provides free loaners, or spend $20 at a car rental company.

drc4 · October 2001

If you get a Passat that proves to be problem-free for over a year, you'll certainly be one of the lucky few!! Passats have always had reliability problems and VW doesn't seem to be making any positive improvements. I've owned one, several friends have owned them with nothing but problems, mainly electrical and assembly issues. A couple friends and I had the same problem others have mentioned here concerning the ignition key getting stuck in the ignition, which is terribly inconvenient on a trip.

When I was new car hunting last year, I was considering a 2000 GLX, so called 3 VW specialty shops and asked all 3 to give an honest opinion as to the Passat's reliability in hopes VW had improved in that regard. The owners of all 3 shops said without hesitation Passats are nice driving cars, but wouldn't recommend them as a long-term investment because of "inherent problems". That put an end to considering another Passat. Two of the 3 shop owners highly recommended going to an Audi A4 instead. Even though the Passat and A4 share many of the same components, they said Audis are simply constructed with a much higher degree of care and attention to fit & finish, and much more reliable vehicles. I did some research into the reliability records of each over the past 10 years, and discovered Passats have remained problem children, while Audi has been obviously improving to a point where they're now considered extremely reliable and retain high residual and resale values. Naturally, all manufacturers have their off days and pump out a few lemons, but if you play the odds, odds are significantly higher that your chances of getting a problem-laden Passat are much higher than getting a problem A4, Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Infiniti, etc. I don't know about you, but when I'm considering a $25K-$30+K investment, or a $400/mo lease, I don't particularly like the odds stacked against me from the start.

Anyway, I ended up getting a 2000 A4 1.8T Quattro with tip and after 20 months, it's been fantastic. No problems, no rattles or squeaks, and what a joy to drive! Love the quattro. Don't get me wrong...A4s aren't perfect either, eg: The standard Symphony sound system is poor quality for such a high-end vehicle, leather isn't available in the 1.8Ts (it's leatherette), etc. But do this: read through some posts on the VW Passat online forum, then read through some posts on the AudiWorld A4 forum. I followed the Passat forum for a few months when I was car hunting and the majority of posts were significant problems owners were having with their new cars, some of which were literal horror stories. By contrast, on the AudiWorld A4 forum, you'll see a few posts concerning minor problems asking for help, but the majority of posts concern positive issues like custom accessories, how to paint brake calipers to match the car, chipping, custom exhausts, etc. The most frequent complaint I've read concerning the A4 is brake dust and keeping the rims clean. Big deal! I've read very few complaints that were major in nature. Most posts have to do with how much people love their cars and how reliable and fun to drive they've been. Give me those odds any day.

I love the improved look of the new Passat....a really great looking car and I prefer the design over the new A4. But I'd never buy one. My Audi dealer is also a VW dealer and even the mechanics at the dealership say, "Stick with Audi. Too many problems with Passats."

This is just my .02 and it may be worth nothing. You could get a Passat and never have a problem. But what are the odds?

DRC4

vwguild · October 2001

One of my closest friends owns a family Dealership here in Monterey...MBZ...Started in
1926 as a Packard franchise...Do you know where his primary profit center at the Dealership resides??? The Service Dept. 12 Lifts in the
Department busy from 7:30-5:00 everyday...5 days
a week, 4 weeks a month...Is it making him wealthy? He was to begin with...however; he had a
Technician that was murdered about 5 years ago...
why? Well, he always walked around with about $10,000 in cash on him at all times...10 Grand as
pocket money for a *wrench*!!!

The illustration is extreme, but EVERY brand always has a Full Service Dept. Honda, Toyota,
BMW...This is why cars...(Read: Machines with seats) come with warranties..even Audi!

lisaudre · October 2001

I recently bought a Passat GLX..I too, was very concerned over the reliability issues especially since I had so much trouble with my Volvo. But I went and purchased the car anyway in September and must say i really love this car. I look foward to getting in and driving it..and have even circled past the house to get a little more driving in. With the exception of the Automatic passenger side window control not working, the car seems to be perfect. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but so far no other problems. I do wish that the car was offered with a navigation system, but other than that, I am really enjoying the car.

phkck · October 2001

I own an Acura TL Type-S, this in reference to previous posts about the pro's and con's of each.
Long story short, my parents are looking for a new car and I steered them towards the Passat with 4 Motion. They are just hitting retirement, and the 6 airbags and 4 motion is a perfect fit for the Colo. mtns.
For me the 260hp was too hard for me to pass up. I really enjoy the Acura.
But, given snow/ice conditions, the Passat 4motion is the hands down winner.
Also, with car seats, the TL-S has a slightly lower roof line that makes getting the little ones in just a bit more work.
I really like the look of the new Passats, but preaching to the choir!
Glad to see a lot of good debate on this page.
FWIW Paul

jmatero · October 2001

Of all the cars I've owned, the Passat has been the most rewarding and the most annoying. The interior is the most beautiful and one of the biggest problems. The seats (non-leather) are the most comfortable and still the biggest pain in the "rump". The car is both the quietest and loudest I've owned. Mechanically, it's been one of the most reliable... never leaving me by the side of the road, yet it's been in the service department more than any other.

That's my experience with the Passat.... and if you follow the Vortex or ClubB5 boards or talk to folks sitting in the waiting area of many VW dealerships you'll hear the same "love-hate" stories. The Passat (for many, obviously not ALL owners) is a big contradiction.

The interior, to me, is wonderfull... very ergonomic, very high quality materials, etc. The doors close with a reassuring thunk and the buttons and switches all work with precision. Yet, I'm slowly hating setting foot in there because now, with 20k miles, there are rattles, squeaks, groans, moans, buzzes, clunks, clacks and every other kind of noise you could imagine coming from the interior. The dealers (3 now) have tried to stop them, but have all failed and tell me "it's the nature of the beast, turn up the radio". The service at VW (if it means anything to you) is the worst in the business PERIOD. In fact, in EVERY service survey taken on the planet, VW rarely SHOWS UP because they are so far below the norm. And I've owned Dodges, Mercurys, subarus.... hell, even a K-car.... and after 3 dealers, the service just stinks.

Here is an example... just one... of why I feel their service is the worst:

As I was driving my car off the lot, new, I noticed the A/T handle was a little loose. The dealer insisted it was normal, so off I went. Sure enough, a week or two later, I had JUST arrived at work and went to put the car into PARK and the handle simply snapped off. Since the dealer was right down the road from my office, I called and explained I was stuck in Park and needed the car towed to the dealer and fixed. The service advisor (Riverbank Motors, Stamford CT) told me the car didn't have to be towed.... "we don't do that".... and explained to me how I could jamb a screwdriver into a small plastic clip in the shaft and pull up with one hand while I shifted with the other and bring the car to the dealer.

If that wasn't bad enough, when I got to the dealer (using the screwdriver to shift) they looked at the handle and said "yup it's broken... we'll have to order a new one... could take a couple of weeks". So I smiled and politely asked for a rental car and they said "we don't have rental cars, I'll call you when the part arrives and you can bring it back". So for 3 weeks I drove around with a screwdriver sticking out of a $25k+ new car to shift. I finally lost it when I cut my finger and still hadn't heard, so I drove to New Country VW 10 miles West of there and got the same reaction. They said "We have the Wood handle and the leather one, but yours is plastic and we're out of stock... it will take a couple weeks." I replied "can you just stick the wood or leather or an Audi one on there for now and swap it when the part comes in?" The say "no, we don't do that". Ok, so I suggest, can I BUY... OUT OF POCKET... a leather model and exchange it when the corrrect part arrives? They say "sure, but there's a 20% re-stock fee you'll have to pay".

You following me here? And that was just one issue. My seatbelt buckle doesn't always latch.... you'll be driving down the road and it flies past your face. Not safe eh? 3 dealers now have latched it and pulled and it doesn't unlatch so they refuse to replace it.... yet my Dad drove the car the next day and told me it unlatched. I even called VW of America and told them what happened and they said "sir, if they can't unlatch it in the lot by pulling on it, there is nothing wrong... you must not be latching it correctly so there's nothing we can do".

Just some history of the passat for people thinking of buying: The car came out in 1998 and is the same (save for a nose/tail update in 2001.5) as the 2002 models. So it's been in production for 5 model years in the U.S. (6 overseas).

When I was shopping for a sedan in 2000, I was ready to go for a maxima or accord... maybe even a TL... the Passat was out because of the compaints I had read at the Vortex and ClubB5 sites from 1998 and 1999 owners about clunking front seats, warped windshield glass, mysterious engine fires, Brakes that fail in the rain, malfunctioning sunroofs, dash and door rattles and squeaks, front suspension groans and electrical gremlins. But I loved the way it drove and figured, "hey, the 2000 models must have that stuff worked out by now, right?"

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Wrong.... my 2000 GLS 1.8T with Tiptronic has them ALL and MORE. so does my Dad's 2000 GLX.

But what is disturbing is that right now, on the vortex site, there are people with brand new 2002 Passats writing in asking why thier front seats are clunking, why thier dash boards are rattling, telling about their engine fire, asking why their sunroofs are malfunctioning, their windshields are warped and on and on and on.... and they're 2002 models!

Go to this site: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/

Then you can enter information about any car line and any year and pull up info on owner complaints to the federal government. Check out the 2002 Passat.... there are already 2 reports of Engine fires and the cars have only been on sale for a solid month or two. Then look at 2001 and 2000 models.... In fact, they have been selling 2002 beetles and jettas for just about as long and yet the only 2002 VW product that has complaints filed is the 2002 Passat.

I'm not trying to steer folks away from this car... it is one of the best riding mid-sized sedans out there and comes with many safety features. Also, Edmunds long term used Passat seems to be holding up well. So please, give it a look, but do yourself a favor and TALK to the folks sitting in the service department at the VW dealer and ask about their experiences getting their cars fixed. That way you're talking to real owners. Just sit in there for 10 or 15 minutes and just LISTEN to what customers are saying and how they are treated before signing on the dotted line because if you get a flawless Passat, great, but if you have ANY problems and you saw unsatisfied annoyed owners down in service, just remember, that's going to be you! hope this helps.

dave1363 · October 2001

Wow, I guess my fears have been reinforced. I guess it's time to circle back to looking at the new Camry or Aura TL S-Type. Damn! I thought might have found a diamond in the rough with the Passat but I guess it's clear that it's a rough diamond. After owning three Japanese vehicles, I don't want to spend my time in VW dealer service waiting rooms. I find it confusing how a company like VW is sitting on somewhat of a gold mine with the Passat with it's ride and features, yet doesn't nip the service issues in the bud. Plus, how does VW get the high price for Passat with the bad track record? I would gladly pay the high price for the Passat with it's if the reliability were there. After reading the messages here and speaking with my friend with all the problems I guess I need to walk away from VW. It's a shame it was fun to drive.

to Teo, the deal on my Passat was a lease for 39 months 15 miles per year with $1,200 down. The payments were $430 per month. The implicit interest rate was around 5.6% if I recall. I didn't go through the numbers in earnest as I'm still trying to select the right vehicle first then comb through the numbers.

mlayton694 · October 2001

Do a search on the Camry and Accord and you will find the same number of complaints, I do sympathize with your experience though

teo · October 2001

My 2001 Chevy Impala LS has been flawless for 6 months and 6,500 miles...not a single trip back to the dealership for anything except 2 free oil changes and 1 scheduled tire rotation (My car has free Smart care maintenance for 3 years).

I also like the 2002 VW Passat wagon and was seriously considering trading my troublefree Impala into the Passat, but after doing an extensive research I have concluded that the Impala appears to be a much more reliable car than the Passat actually appears to be. The Passat, without a doubt, has higher quality interior materials, but while the car has visible quality parts and construction, still it is not reliable as it should be. Quality and relibility are two different concepts but they go hand in hand.

My local Chevy dealer has provided me with excellent, courteous, efficient and professional service. The car has been rock solid...no check engine dashboard lights lighting up with just 1K miles, no engine or tranny problems, no suspension problems, no rattles, no squeaks, no unfixable noises, nothing, nada, zilp, ZERO! Just a very reliable, very safe, quality car that is very fun to drive, has awesome performance for the price (Standard 200HP V6) electronic traction control, 4-wheel disc ABS, excellent stereo, dual zone A/C, trip computer, OnStar, etc.

Yes the Passat has better resale value, looks nicer, has a nicer interior, but what good does that do if the car poses a higher than average relibility risk, the VW service network stinks by nost accounts and the prospect of mounting problems as the car ages?? That doesn't bode too well for an otherwise excellent car and a very good value in the realm of German engineered and made cars.

I don't think is worth the hassle trading my roomy and reliable Impala for a new Passat in the near future. I'll wait a few years until the VW gets their act together with product reliability and dealer network service.

Someone said: "American cars are boring and unreliable" Well my reply to that statement is: "Not this one!" Before buying any Japanese or German car, take a test drive of a new Impala LS...this thing drives incredibly well!

I have owned imported cars for many years only until this Impala LS, so that should tell you something about how well made this car is.

Finally, in a recent J.D. Powers study, the top 3 automarkers that have scored the highest in initial quality are:

1) Toyota/Lexus
2) Honda/Acura
3) General Motors

VW? at the bottom of the barrel, sharing floor space with Ford and the Korean makes.

car_nut1 · October 2001

What was that comment/anecdote all about? Somewhere along the way it stopped making sense. I always look forward to your postings and respect the time you take to reply to everyone. The 2 MB dealerships near my home also have full service bays; 10, 12, and even 20 year old MB's being serviced! Most bodies look like new. My VW dealer always seems to have new cars in it's bays. I wonder if we'll see many B5's around in the year 2010. Nothing wrong in admitting that B5's are more troublesome than most cars; I always loved Fiat Sport Spyders & Alfa Romeos.

car_nut1 · October 2001

Meant to say, "Stopped making sense to me."

merckx · October 2001

I agree,the Impala is way,way underappreciated. Very roomy,quiet,and,as you said,it really is solid as a rock. It is an outstanding value. My wife,who knows little about cars,turned her nose up at it. Some think it an old person's car(but I sure don't)
I do have to disagree-I really don't think it fun to drive at all-but i still do respect it as one of the better cars on the market.
But it is just not fun like a Passat-esp. a VW with 5-spd. manual.
My Passat brings me constant joy-something driving an Impala just cannot do.

dl7265 · October 2001

That is sooo dispointing and a joke, i once owned an Infiniti that was 3.5 years into the warranty period. The electronics IE stereo warranty was for 1 year. My CD player began skipping, i brought the car in not only did they replace the player OUT OF WARRANTY without questions, but washed and detailed the car before returning it. VW needs to get a clue,

Best Regards,
DL

sandhurst · October 2001

mlayton694 suggests that a check of Camry and Accord message boards reveals the same number of complaints as the Passat

Some thoughts:

1. There are many more Camrys and Accords than Passats in the US because of their popularity in the last decade, and the law of large numbers guarantees some complaints. Doesn't it seem that there are a lot of Passat complaints for a car that is not number 1 or 2 in sales?

2. Don't the Passat complaints cluster around the same problems that just keep coming up time and time again?

3. The board I follow most closely is the Honda CR-V one here at Edmunds. Let me assure you that CR-V owners generate very few complaints/problems. And significantly, the problems that are mentioned seem isolated. There is no obvious pattern or clustering, as there are on Passat boards.

In summary, don't be so quick to imply that all cars generate the same number of complaints. The Passat is a very attractive, fun-driving car. But it obviously has reliablility problems for an unacceptably high number of owners.

cupholder1 · October 2001

Of course Infiniti should treat you well. They take a Nissan Maxima and call it an Infiniti and charge 5 grand more. For that extra change, I would expect good treatment.

And forget Camry/Accord comparisons... Why don't you compare the Passat to other European models? Bimmers and Mercedes are constantly having little problems. BMW and MB owners aren't as bothered about it as VW owners because of excellent dealer treatment, nice loaner cars, etc. But look how much more they are paying.

It seems like people want the performance of a good German car, the pricing of an Accord, and dealer service of Infiniti/MB/etc. That's just unreasonable IMHO.

cupholder1 · October 2001

Per your suggestion, I looked at the Jetta Wagon. Didn't even test drive it... it just didn't fit me. I was able to get the seat back far enough to have plenty of legroom, but it seemed like the top of the roof sloped too much into the area where windshield should be and obstructed having a clear line of vision outside of the car. That was with the seat pumped all the way down.

I didn't have this problem with the GTI, and the GTI has the same headroom dimensions on the spec sheets. Weird.

Guess it is back to the Passat.

arjay1 · October 2001

I am on my 3rd VW, a 2000 Passat. I started driving VW's because they were different, you did not see one on every corner. You got that "look" when you told someone that you drive a VW. The cars were quirky, different and fun.
Unfortunately, VW's have become popular as everyday transportation for the masses. When you pass one on the street you rarely get the flash of the headlights and a wave because you are a VW driver as well.
We want our exclusivity back. That is why we started S.A.V.E. (Society Against Volkswagens Everywhere) There are currently 137 members in our group. We spend our time on various bulletin boards complaining of fictitious VW reliability issues. Our goal is to get all the ordinary people who only want reliable transportation to forego VW's.
Evidently, it is not working. Our results seem promising when we read the bulletin boards. There are people swearing off getting a VW because of what they read here. However, VW continues to set new sales records. Our small group is just not able to do enough.
Get with S.A.V.E. and help us keep VW's out of the hands of the general (normal) population. If you love your VW you will join us. Get on the various bulletin boards and complain loudly. Read the previous posts and use some of those same reported problems. They were put there by members of S.A.V.E. who are professionals, do not make up your own problems. We know what we are doing. The engine fire one appears to be particularly strong as well as the key stuck in the ignition problem. Our professional's are continuously working on new problems to write about. Since Volkswagen is "the peoples car" we believe it is up to "the people" to determine how VW is viewed. We have decided on quirky and unreliable rather than reliable and sexy.
Join us in our effort to scare away those who are not true to VW. Help us to make VW unique again! And remember, give your fellow Vdubbers a wave when you pass.
This effort is not supported by VW (imagine that).

teo · October 2001

Ok, let me get this straight. So in order to be a "Good" and "Loyal" VW owner, one has to put up with lousy reliability and dealer service in the name of exclusivity and "Cool" factor??

I beg to differ on that, sir.

For starters, VW are pretty pricey cars. They fall within the price range of a great percentage of buyers but that doesn't mean these critters are exactly "Basement bargains". Yes the cars are quirky, fun, different and have that vaunted Cool Euro look factor and German engineering handling dynamics...but guess what my friend?

People paying $20K+ for a vehicle that is usually smaller, more expensive, with more pricey parts and maintenance do expect some long term quality and relibility. If I want a junker, I certainly don't need to spend $25K or $30K on a new VW.

Sorry but your little group is making up too many excuses for poor quality, poor service and dismal customer service in the name of some bogus ideal of "VW Exclusivity".

Get this, VW are mass produced cars. In Europe I could see 20 new VW Golfs lined-up in every corner or every major European city.

Since VW brags so much about being the new "near luxury car of the masses", those people plunking down their hard earned cash are expecting exceptional long term quality and reliability not to mention a competent dealership network that can and is able to tackle their problems with their cars.

Want exclusivity? Buy the "real thing", a BMW, Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari. A VW will never be viewed as an exclusive car. Quirky, cool, different yes, but exclusive?, gimme a break!.

mlayton694 · October 2001

Firstly your points are well taken (with a grain of salt), however, looking up the website you posted, 38 complaints (for 2001 models) out of what population size (10s of thousands)? You mentioned there are an unacceptable number of complaints on the Passat. What is an unacceptable high number of complaints (ratio/pct)? How reflective are internet web bulletin boards of the total population? Is there a way to find a true total number of issues with cars from all sources (valid numbers) rather than just the internet? Perhaps VW drivers more apt to post on the internet as opposed to Toy/Honda? I would bet the demographics of VW buyers are younger therefore more inclined to use the internet as a medium for collaboration. Basically, if we are going to rely on statistics, lets make sure our data is accurate and relevent. Simply reading unverified internet posts is a bad way to influence decision making. Even if your statements are true, I personally would rather be inconvenienced with little stuff in a appealing car rather than have a simple reliable transportation car, no knock on those who prefer the opposite.

stevem327 · October 2001

Thanks for all of the feedback that you Passat owners have provided on your cars. I didn't think I would get so many responses back when I posted message #2103 (Long Term Reliability of VWs), so I really appreciate everybody's input...it was VERY helpful and informative.

I'm really glad I asked for advice at this forum. Had I not done so, I would've probably gone ahead and purchased a Passat next year. However, after doing more research on this and some of the other VW boards, I'm leaning more towards an Audi A4 or an Accord EX/Camry XLE.

I know there are probably tons of happy Passat owners out there who will never voice their opinions on one of these boards. It always seems to be that the owners who are unhappy are the ones who are most vocal and do lots of posting (understandbly so considering how much money they spent). So, perhaps we don't really get an accurate picture of how reliable a car actually is, since not EVERY SINGLE Passat owner is relating their ownership experience on this board (both good and bad).

However, it does seem like there's a trend with less than acceptable service at VW dealers and that worries me, because whatever car I end up buying I'm planning to keep for 5-6 years, which means there's a greater chance of me having to spend time at the dealer getting things fixed.

In any event, I do appreciate everybody's feedback and I'll continue to check out this and other VW boards. Hopefully with time, VW will be able to get their dealer network to be more responsive to their customer's needs. They have a line of cars now that is very popular, so it's the least they can do if you ask me.

mlayton694 · October 2001

This is by far the butt-ugliest Camry yet. For MSRP $26,300 you get a 6Cyl reliable transportation car. No style (extremely dufus crude sharp lined Japanese look, just like the Avalon) with no hint of even entry-level luxury or fun. Gosh Im gonna puke.

Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

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