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Oldsmobile Intrigue



  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    jgriff : Given some of your past comments, my defenses are always up. I think the Camry spoiler looks fine. The car itself looks like a Taurus though.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    I'll say that the current '02 Camry is a HUGE improvement over the sleeping pill 97-01 generation. However,I am dissapointed to see the lower HP rating given by Toyota to the optional 3.0L V6 engine of just 192HP. They claim that they did this to comply with ULEV emissions requirements. This sounds to me like typical Toyota BS to shortchange its customers in exchange for overpriced products. See what would happen if GM next year tries to down the HP rating on the 3800 or 3.5L DOHC engines in the name of emissions...people would grill them!

    The 4 banger LE version (Which will account for nearly 85% of all Camry sales as it has in the past) has a 157HP rating and some people say that the 4 banger feels somewhat stronger than the V6!.

    Price gouging will be the name of the game at Toyota dealers with the new Camry. If you are interested wait at least 6 months once demand settles down and dealers are willing to deal on the beast. Let's see how the first year quality of the '02 Camry fares before jumping on it.

    The base model is going between $20K and $25K and the fully loaded XLE V6 sedan is selling in the $30K range which is clearly Audi, Lexus, Acura, BMW and VW Passat territory. Toyota is dangerously outpricing themselves with their products. Once you get passed the hype regarding quality, reliability and resale value, most Toyota products are pretty much ordinary and have no extraordinary qualities to them, except maybe the Lexus IS300, LS430 and the Audi TT copycat, the SC430.

    The new Camry will seriously impact Avalon sales...The Avalon is Toyota's equivalent to the Aztek. I see a redesign coming up real soon.

    I still see the GM offerings as a much better value, better powertrains that have no need to make stupid excuses, competitive quality and a good array of comfort and safety equipment.

    GM doesn't need a $30K Camry look alike, it needs a car with comparable and better quality that undercuts the asking price of the Japanese offerings.

    The '02 Nissan Altima is a REAL performance alternative to the Mommy Camry but a fully loaded 3.5L V6 DOHC with 253HP is approaching the $30K threshold. Will people pay that much money for a Nissan Altima??? We shall see.

    But even at $30K given the superior power ratio of the Altima over the Camry, the Altima seems to be the better buy.

    Both cars are first year models and remember that not even the mighty Japanese can escape first year bugs.
  • jgriffjgriff Posts: 362
    Hey what can I say, I'm a kinder gentler jgriff ;o)

    Have you seen the '02 Camry in person? I tell you, if is just a little dark [as is was when it saw it] you almost mistake it for the Avalon. Size & style wise it was almost a spitting image [minus the grill & rear-end]. A lot of new cars seem to run with similar lines during their cycles, get hard to tell some of them apart.

    I'm glad you like the spoiler, and I'm sure that many others will too. It just seems so out of character for such a big/bigger family sedan. Almost like putting a spoiler on a Benz, just doesn't flow. Looks are always subjective, right?

    And keeping with topic, do you have any problems cleaning/waxing under your spoiler?
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    jgriff : Well just stop kidding and be nice then. No problems waxing under the spoiler, though it's not as easy as elsewhere. I saw the new Camry in person and it is bigger, no doubt. I really have zero interest in buying the car so... whatever. The new Altima I would indeed like to see though as it looks pretty sweet.

    teo : The GM offerings are indeed better value BUT, having driven a Intrigue I'm not sure I would go back to a 3.8L based car. That said, I would buy a Regal over a Camry anyday. Quality wise there is almost no difference.
  • one2oneone2one Posts: 626
    Depending on the build date, you may have problems with the steering shaft and rear disks. I had a 1998 Intrigue base (known as GX now) and put 80,000 miles on it. The ONLY thing I did was change the oil and add coolant as necessary (since it doesn't have to be changed for so long).

    As far as long term durability is concerned (and this perception will vary as you will quickly discover) was that you won't have any major problems with the car. Minor annoyances perhaps but no real problems. You'll be getting the 3800 engine/tranny combo that has proven itself over time.

    Take out a bumper-2-bumper warranty if you do get it just in case the aforementioned problems are present.
  • focusfocus Posts: 225
    ab348: if that indigo blue is as you described. That would be great! I saw a VW with light blue color and netural leather and it look expensive.
    Just spoke to a dealer, he said indigo blue may not be available in Canada. That is bull.
  • one2oneone2one Posts: 626
    The output of the Camry's V-6 is not because of ULEV standards. It's the exact same engine being used in the ES300 for 2002. As I said before, Lexus needed to give folks a reason to spend more for a Lexus since, especially 2 models ago, they were exactly the same save a few details.

    The output of the 2002 ES300 is 210HP for the exact same engine. The RX300 & GS300 (same engine) has 220HP. Note that the Intrigue when it was released only had a 195HP rating while Impala and Buick Regal LS were at 200HP all with the 3800 engine. When the 3.5 came out folks would say, "WOW! A 20HP increase!" when in reality they could have tuned it like the others. But then the new engine wouldn't have had that special something over the original engine. Toyota's doing the same with the Camry/ES300.

    Why is the Camry rated at 192hp while the ES300 is 210? Simple... snob appeal.
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Yeah, but 192HP for $30K is not very encouraging to say the least.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Not good bang for the buck that's for sure. Typical Toyota.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Posts: 1,110
    It is such a huge jump from the 4 to 6 in a Camry, it is ridiculous. The base 4 banger comes pretty well equiped from what I can see (co-worker saw one for $25K msrp cdn w/automatic).
  • one2one - did you go 80K miles on the same fuel filter? The owner's manual doesn't mention it, but I plan on replacing mine every 30K miles. They get pretty dirty.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Posts: 1,110
    Well my light didn't blow but I replaced it today as the signal was not functional. Turns out the bulb portion was fine, but the contact that I suppose controls the signal function (turning brighter intermittently) was burnt (burnt plastic around it). Takes about 5 minutes to change if you have someting to pry the bulb out of the clips.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    I think that price is high. Check the Edmunds site for an appraisal that will take into account the options, color, your local market, etc.
  • one2oneone2one Posts: 626
    Actually, I did, although I probably should have changned it. My gas mileage was the same at 80k as it was at 30k. Engine actually felt smoother as the mileage increased (next to being off I don't know how much smoother the 3800 can get). Go figure. Guess it was just getting "broken in".

    I noticed that, aside from oil changes and fluid changes in dusty climates, the manual says absolutely nothing about other things that are done during tune-ups. I suppose that would negate the 100,000 mile tune-up pitch.

    Having said that, I wouldn't worry too much about those things. Even the Motor Trend long-term report only included oil/filter, inside filter changes, and tire rotation totalling slightly more than $400 for 40k miles. At 80k people thought I was lying about the mileage since I keep it on the trip computer most of the time. You should have seen the looks on their faces when they saw what was really on the odometer!

    Was squeak and rattle free too.
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Yes, I agree, too high for a 98. I checked Kelley Blue Book on my 99 GL with leather; trade value of $7770. Ouch! I'm sure glad the wife still likes it; she may be driving it a long, long time. We paid $3,500 below sticker, put down an extra $500, financed for 60 months at 4.9% and after almost three years, we still owe $3,000 more than it's worth. This is my 11th new car (10 GM and one Ford) and it has been back to the dealer for repairs/recalls nine times in 33 months. That's a new personal record. If you are buying a used one, you should be able to get it cheap, cheap, cheap.
  • jg28jg28 Posts: 257
    instead of the front of the hood. It improves the look of the whole front of the car, I can't believe how much it completes the space between the headlights that was so void before. I think it makes the car look classier too. And the hood doesn't miss the icon a bit. I'll try to take some pictures and post them. The icon has much greater visibility now. I seriously can't believe what a difference it has made. I got a "clunk" noise when I was turning the car for the first time in the parking lot the other day. And am getting more and more rattles by the day. Has anyone had a rattle like sound or buzzing sound coming from what seems like the interior of the steering column? Could that be the intermediate shaft? I looked through all the TSBs for my 2000 and found nothing about the steering column. I also got a couple "clunk" sounds when turning in the parking lot the other day. Who posted about the noise problem being fixed by the strut tower brackets? Could you repost that?
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I can't imagine how the Oldsmobile insignia would look better down there. Please do post some pictures. No rattles at all on my 2000 aside from the CDs in the front cubby hole. I have a nice CD wallet, but my wife always buys new CDs and leaves them in the car with the box. How annoying!
  • mfd37mfd37 Posts: 15
    How has your 90 Toronado held up? Is it the base or Trofeo model?

    Actually I've been very happy with the Toronado. No rust showing anywhere and that's unusual for a car that has lived in Northeast Ohio for 12 years. I got the base model but added the anti-lock brakes. It stickered at 23 and I got it for 18, so I figure that it's cost me only $1500 a year for the last 12 years plus routine maintenance. I know it's getting to the point where the repair costs and headaches are going to equal the monthly payment for a new car, so it's time to start shopping. Now I just can't decide if I should stick with the Toro for the winter and get the GLS in the spring when the rebates might be better or bite the bullet now and not worry about getting stuck somewhere when it's 10 below zero with 2 feet of snow. I'm also thinking that the PCS system might be nice to have when the roads are bad.... Hmmmm, and heated seats.... decisions, decisions.
  • One2one - I can't speak for the Toyota & Lexus brands, but I do know that there are legitimate reasons for the rated HP differences for the 3800 V6. The version of the 3800 used in the Intrigue was rated at 195HP but the "same" engine in the Pontiacs were rated at either 200 or 205 HP. One difference is in the intake manifold used. It seems the Pontiacs have a little more room under the hood to accommodate a freer-flowing intake manifold. If memory serves me right, there may have been some other subtle differences (in exhaust plumbing, etc.) that account for the rated HP differences. Any version of this engine has proven to be a very good one - pretty much bulletproof.
  • yurakmyurakm Posts: 1,345
    The 3800 engine in Pontiac GP GT was rated for 195hp in 1998:

    the same as the same engine in 1998 Intrigue:

    The rating of the engine increased by 5hp in the following year for Pontiac:

    The torque probably also increased, by 5lbf. In the above spec sheet the lower torque was reported , however this probably is error. See data for the year 2000:

    In 1999 Intrigue gradually switched to new 3.5l engine, starting from higher trims. The base GX trim still had the same "leftower" engine as in 1998.

    Probably, it did not make sense to bother with engineering changes for the short production run.

  • ian18ian18 Posts: 133
    I believe that jg(28) is referring to my post about a TSB to replace front struts. This only affected early production '98 Intrigues. Symptons were a "popping" noise. I hoped that this would cure the steering wheel rattle but it did not. I have pretty much given up on the steering rattle problem. I guess that I can accept this very minor occasional annoyance after 54,000 miles.
  • focusfocus Posts: 225
    saw two brand new intrigue GL at the lot tonight, one black, one silver. Under the dealer's spotlight, fine scratches from buffing is obvious on the black as well as water mark from rain. On the silver one, no scratches and very little water mark. What's your experience?
  • jg28jg28 Posts: 257
    It wasn't your post. Someone posted awhile ago about how the dealer changed the strut mounts and it completely got rid of the noise.

    So who knows where I can get strut tower braces for my 2000 Intrigue? I've looked all over online and can't find any! GRRRR! How about the air filter? Can anyone explain to me how to access it better than the owner's manual does?

    My car is going in next monday for the following warranty work:

    I still get a whistling noise from the passenger door. The technician better come with me and if he doesn't hear it maybe I'll just keep on driving till he does. I've had it with that problem that I've taken in three times now to fix. Can't find it my foot!

    The transmission behaves strangely. Shifting and surging at odd times. I will settle for nothing less than a new transmission if they "can't duplicate the problem." They claimed they couldn't duplicate the headlight dim/flicker at first either.

    Does anyone else have severely rusted rotors? I think this is very unusual for a car with only 20K

    Did y'all know there is a TSB for the air dam? They've redesigned one with a higher ground clearance and it's quieter when it does scrape. That's definitely being replaced.

    I'm going to make them tighten the shift lever. Since it's under warranty, I'm not even going to bother looking for the screw myself.

    I can unroll my window and push the window down manually about an inch each time. This annoys me but at least I can have the window open and have it not creak as much when it's rolled down.

    I preface the following with a pledge that I will not become engaged in an argument with the following person. I will now say my peace and be done with it. Dindak, I can surely appreciate your point of view but when I do post my pictures I don't wanna hear how you hate it or whatever, I hope you'll change your ways and just say you prefer it on the hood. So you can't imagine how it would look better, well so what? Maybe it's the language you use and maybe you don't intend to come across as hostile but honestly, I think you goad jgriff and a lot of others, and you jump on people that have anything remotely negative to say about GM or the Intrigue or anything positive to say about Honda or Toyota. We must remember (and I hope the host reads this) that the Intrigue was DESIGNED TO BE AN IMPORT FIGHTER! We cannot have a real and complete discussion about the Oldsmobile Intrigue without introducing and discussing how it stacks up with the foreign competition and how the competition stacks up with itself. I for one appreciate jgriff's point of view and the points of view of others who have had both positive and negative experiences with our Intrigues.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    jg28 : Easy buddy! Get up on the wrong side of bed? The squabbles between jgriff and I go back well before you came to this board. He hasn't even had an Intrigue for over a year. I know full well the Intrigue is not perfect, I've said it many times before. Lots of flaws, but average reliability backed up by JD Power and CR. No car is perfect, no not even a Camry. As for your pictures, if it sounded like I was prejudging I'm sorry. All I said was "I can't imagine what that would look like" which means I am wondering what that will look like. I still would like to see them.

    focus : Had 2 black cars and I love them BUT, they are a royal pain in the butt to keep clean. I say never again all the time but you never know. ;-)
  • one2oneone2one Posts: 626
    My old Intrigue was Silver Mist (I like Sterling much better... has a brighter, less dull look IMO).

    My current Intrigue is Midnight Blue, close enought to black to make comparison. The silver (either one) doesn't show swirl marks very much, even if they're there. For that matter, it doesn't really show dirt! That was the one thing I loved about that color.

    The blue will show swirl marks more. I bolded *will* because from day 2 of ownership, I've been using Meguiar's polish and wax. Said another way, I don't have swirl marks at all. My blue looks like a lake, almost like you can reach your hand down into it.

    In addition to the polish and wax, I use Meguiar's "Quick Detailer", particularly after it rains to get the dirt off. I'll also hit it with "Quick Wax". I thought it wouldn't make a big difference since I'm using their "Gold Class" wax after polishing. But using the Quick Wax really brings out the color. I get complements all the time on the color (particularly by women, they love the blue! :-) so the stuff works.

    That's probably more than you wanted to know but you did ask ;-)
  • jgriffjgriff Posts: 362
    focus ::: IMHO lighter colors are always easier to maintain. I currently have silver, and wished I had gotten white [I know very boring]. But here in the dusty plains area, white simply does not show the dirt & dust as much.

    Black looks best on the showroom floor.

    Swirls marks again my opinion, Zainos products really do helps to put the right protection on your pride & joy.
  • ketchketch Posts: 217
    Almost got the midnite blue on my '00 GL, but "bailed" due to concern on detailing time (2 kids, a house, so even though my car is seldom dirty, wanted to reduce my time doing so). Nevertheless, the midnite blue esp. brings out the cars "muscular" look of the curves and lines. Still love the silver mist over the sterling silver IMO due to a classier look/less overt and shiney, but gotta say any silver looks good with this car. Esp. like the darlk grey interior with the upmarket fabric design ("Meridian"?) in the seats with the ext. color.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Totally right. I love dark rich colors but the scratches, dings and swirls are hard to take. Intrigue is my first silver car and no not very exciting but, it generally looks clean and marks are hardly noticeable.
  • jgriffjgriff Posts: 362
    jg28 ::: Thanks for your insight on points-of-view. I for one, having recent experiences on both sides of the fence, had always hoped that some of my views [both positive or negative] might be helpful to some.

    NOTE: This forum has been extremely helpful in confirming the fact that I was NOT ALONE with the problems I had with my Intrigue. Thus meaning the collective sharing of information amongst others was/is greatly appreciated. I'm SO grateful for the internet medium [& Edmunds Town-Hall]. Otherwise I would have still been on my own, not knowing for sure if my car was simply a fluke or a pattern. Prior to 1998. [B.I. Before Internet] my good/bad car experiences were simply a guessing game.

    dindak ::: Please be forewarned, I too am NOT trying to start anything here, just my thoughts, OK. So please, PLEASE, BE COOL.

    And yes I think jg28 has some valid points, one of our main issues/squabbles [past & present] has always been the dreaded "foreign vs. domestic". Which our HOSTS were always telling us to AVOID or was NOT "on-topic". And two (2) is you most always take personal offense to just about anyone who has anything negative to say about the beloved Intrigue or GM.

    You have many times stated that my Intrigue must have been a rarest of lemons, even though many others were having the same problems. Or that the Intrigue's plight, is no better or worse than the other competition. Could it be possible that you have the blinders on, and are in denial at times, or simply bias? Especially since you have been blessed with a virtually trouble-free Intrigue.

    You didn't care for my views 12-18 months ago, and you still don't care for them today [that is fine, I have NO problems with differences of opinions]. However, I did not go out and buy an Intrigue in hopes that it would be crap, and that I would simply have something [non-permissible content removed] about. In fact just the opposite, I had such HIGH HOPES for this new model, and wanted to keep-it and cherish-it for a long, long time [much like you have been able to do].

    And yes I will agree with you in-advance once again, in the past at times I may have came across in a wrong or inappropriate manner. It was not intentional, and I do deeply apologize to you and all others.
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