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Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans
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I hear BMW is introducing the 1-Series in a few years, so they're expanding too.
Lately the fuel guage has starded to behave strangely. When i start up the car the guage shows half-full even though the tank indeed is full. After driving a while the fuel-level seems to rise. It's the same when the tank is not completely full. It always shows that there are less fuel than there really are.
Anyone else experienced this? It there any simple solution or should I take it to the dealer?
Thanks in advance!
/Daniel
But let's be realistic; why shouldn't they share? After all they are both cars, are they not? One is not a fork lift (I will short-circuit all negative comments on the Lexus LS styling right here and now:-) and the other a Formula 1 race car.
I agree that you can find exceptions to every rule regarding quality. But my whole point is that the probability of finding bad exceptions seems to be increasing significantly with MB and decreasing with Lexus. Again read the posts in Lexus vs MB boards (anecdotal true but also, I suspect the leading edge of trouble at MB)
You state MB is the "Real thing". I, for one, do not dispute that MB has a place in automotive history. And that it continues to introduce some amazing technology. I just think they fail in producing a car that I would be really happy owning (regardless of price). In some ways it reminds me of the 20 minutes segment I saw on the Lambroghni (sp?) Countach. The driver had to open the door and hang his A** out the side in order to see behind him when he backed up. Now is that car an icon (yes), is it expensive (yes), is it unique and special (yes , yes). Would I feel everyone was looking at me if I drove it (YES YES YES) But do I want to really pay to own it and do I want to pay to maintain it (NO NO)and do I want to put up with its failings (NO)
However 10 - 15 years ago I thought that the Countach was the car I wanted. Later, as I matured, it became the MB. Now, as I said before, the lustre on the MB has dulled. Either you can't see this yet (like the the speedometer) or you don't want to be reminded of it.
The MB, still a great car, but right now, just not worth the money.
But I don't disagree about the quality thing.
The pretenders to the throne that appeared in 1990 were most assurredly knock-offs in many ways (most surprisingly, even visually!), a trend that continues to this day in the Lexus SUV and pseudo-SLK. This is not to say that they are by any means bad cars, but for some people this factor is a major turn-off.
I still await conclusive proof that Mercedes-Benz vehicle reliability is on a serious downward trend. Some of the anecdotal evidence would appear to indicate this, but we'll need statistical data for the C Class before we can definitively say the W203 is not an improvement on the W202.
Finally, the blanket statement that MB is "not worth the money" is nothing more than a subjective generalization. I can buy a new 2002 C240 Classic in Canada for under $24,000 US. Assuming that it is capable of use as transportation, that seems like a reasonable value/price ratio to me.
Mike
My 2002 C brochure lists the rear axle ratio of the C320 as 3.23:1.
Strangely, the EU brochure lists 3.27:1 for the C320 axle.
The listed performance figures, including fuel economy, are identical. Strange business, what gives?
Mike
The easy solution to meeting CAFE standards would be to introduce some of the EU-only powertrains, such as the C200K (which in Europe is rated at >10% better fuel economy than the C240), and most notably the CDI diesel range (30-45% more economical). I know that the diesels would not meet CA emission standards, but one would think that, with the diesels they'd likely sell in the other 49 states, the corporate average fuel economy would go up. By the way, do the US pickup truck manufacturers sell their smoke-machines (large TD trucks) in CA? If so, there is some topsy-turvy regulation happening.
Mike
Thanks
Diesels, etc: Yes, we are missing out on the best engines being made right now by both MB and BMW. But it isn't just a CA vs 49 other states problem. A whole host of states have agreed to adopt the CA regulations, clustered in the NE, and MB in particular [there are other manufacturers as well] subscribes to the philosophy that it won't sell anything in the US that can't be sold everywhere.
As a Canadian, only you know why these are not offered as alternatives in Canada...I'm clueless.
There is hope: if the oil companies in the US get off the dime and develop the same low-sulfur or sulfur-free fuel that is [and has been] common in Europe, we should see diesels back in the lineup. It's the crappiness of US fuel that is holding things up.
On ratios: Yeah, they finally realized that the gearing was too tight. It needs to be even longer, but one step at a time. Yes, the EPA numbers have been disappointing, and I'm sure that was behind the move; and brochures were printed well before the '02 EPA testing cycles were complete. And finally, there have often been differences between EU axle ratios and our market, so these are not inconsistencies or mysterious misprints.
And finally, Capt H: There were a spate of fuel sending-unit problems in the recent past, that infected a lot of German cars, not just MB. Sounds like you may have one of the bad guys. Can't remember whether the problem was the float, or the sending unit electronics, or what...sorry...
What does it bode for the future? Beats me, but probably not anything good. Every car maker has its occasional batch of bad parts that get in the field and have to be fixed, but I have to confess the list of subsystems that qualify as potential problems on this car is getting too long for my taste. I keep hoping things will settle down...not yet, apparently.
I am curious as to where your car was manufactured? If you get a chance, could you please check the sticker inside the driverside door, to see if it was manufactured in Germany or elsewhere. As this is the first major problem of this kind reported on this board for '01 & '02 C Class.
My bad tires were Continentals . . . why? Are they lousy, crummy tires and I just missed it on the boards?
Thanks for your help!
If it were my car, I would look for an excuse to replace them with MXV4s, but if the dealer already replaced the bad guys for you, best to just wear 'em out.
Thanks,
BJ
http://www.autolamps-online.com/products/orderform.htm
Can somebody suggest to me what are the good and reliable websites to buy mud-guard for the C class? Clairparts doesn't seem to carry them.
Thank you very much in advance,
Loy
The E320 must be nice.
that guides the purge valve lines. I've seen other posts where the purge valve itself was replaced as the solution.
Dealer Technical Bulletin 49/01
49/01 – Recalls and service campaigns: When repairing any vehicle, Always check the vehicle Master Inquiry for open campaigns.
49/01-2 Group 80 – models 203,215,and 220, KEY DEPENDENT MEMORY FEATURE: This is to clarify the operation of the key-dependent memory feature. This feature allows memory settings for seat position, steering column adjustment and A/C settings (203 only) to be dependent upon which key is used to unlock or start the vehicle. If enabled by the customer, via the Instrument Cluster (A1) settings used. There are a total of three (3) memory blocks available: one for key #1, one for key #2, and one shared by keys #3 through #8.
When ordering replacement keys for any reason, it is important to note that the only these three memory blocks are available, and the key number ordered will affect the memory blocks available. For example, if key #1 is replaced with key #4, then the first memory block (assigned to key #1) is no longer accessible. Specifically, key #2 will use the second memory block, and Keys #3 and #4 will share the third memory block. The loss of a memory block may lead to customer complaints. Therefore, if the customer wishes to retain the key dependent feature, replace keys #1 & #2 with the same numbered key.
Thanks,
BJ
They also determined that they had overfilled the crankcase on the last oil change. New parts are on the way.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bjassin/
BJ
Your photos are interesting, though. It's good to see them putting the car on a proper Celette body bench instead of winging it and yanking and pulling in all directions as most Rube Goldberg bodyshops do. It looks as though the repair will be done very well and in fact the damage does not seem all that bad.
Good luck!
Mike
http://photos.yahoo.com/bjassin/
BJ
You are lucky that yours is coming back in 5wks?
How much is the cost of the repair. Mine was $19,000, zero out of my pocket.
Miki
I heard the same thing time and time again from friends and colleagues, but it seemed like useless information. What was I to do? Well, a friend who had the same thing happen to his BMW 528 a couple of years ago insisted that the other guys insurance company complete the repairs ($12,000) and then pay the difference for him to trade it in for a brand new car (additional $8,000, since the car was only 4 months old with 3,500 miles). It took a fair amount of persistance, and I think he even paid a small amount for the pre-crash milage, but he prevailed. One thing he used to substantiate his position was the difference in resale value between a car tha is in mint condition and one that has been in a serious accident. IT'S HUGE!, especially for high-end cars like Mercedes and BMW.
I didn't do it on my cars and I always regretted it. Noises popped up, alignment was never exact, paint didn't match perfectly after 2-3 years....
If there is any way you can get a new car out of this DO IT. It's not trying to take advantage of the other guy. It's getting back to what you had before the crash. And there is no way the repairs alone will do it. Trust me, I've learned the hard way.
Good luck.
I note that I haven't seen even one post over at the es 300 post about a problem with a new Lexus.
I don't want to start a debate concerning Lexus v. MBZ. I just want to hear some comforing words from people happy with their cars.
Thanks.
P.S. If you are leasing, could you post the terms of your lease? (payment, residual, etc.)
8 years ago I had a Porsche 911 that was hit in the front left wheel and caused $11,000 in body work. Had the car for 7 years after that, drove perfect and the paint matched up even after 7 years! I think it depends on who you send it to.
I have been fortuante to avoid accidents. However, I had an M6 back in the 80s' that was damaged by acid in an underground parking garage (don't ask - industrial accident). The range of prices I got on the repainting were $2,000 to $9,000. Even though the company responsible paid for the $9,000 job out of pocket, I still had a lot of explaining to do when I sold the car two years later. Guesstimate that I took another $5k+ hit on what I really should have got for the car. I still see the car around occassionally and it looks perfect! The quality of the paint job has proven superb over 13 years later, but the fact that the car had been repainted still "hurt" me on resale.
In this wonderful e-world we live in, every one considering buying a used car can easily find out if it's been in an accident. In my case, I volunteered that my M6 had been repainted, but any good investigator could find evidence from knowing where to look.
Get what's coming to you for compensation on loss of resale value, if you can.
The picture shown is actually typical for any front end C320 body repairs. They drop your engine and strip eveything off before they try to do anything with the frame.
Yes, I agree, it will utimately cost you when you sell your car since the dealer has all the repair records on computer and will definately lower your trade-in or re-sell value.
I suspect that any body shop that uses a Celette will also do an amazing job of the cosmetic body repair. So we can put that concern to bed.
However, it is true that with 19K in damage, the used value of the vehicle will be affected, even if there is no objective reason for it. subjectivity is everything I guess. Anyway, if the owner wants to get another new car, that's fine, but I doubt that the long-term owner would see any economic advantage from switching vehicles at this point. So if the car was going to be traded in in 2 or 3 years, by all means get compensated for the loss of used value or get a new one. If not, still go for some additional case compensation, but keep the car in the knowledge that it should be 100% after the repair.
Mike
So when I say there are no comforting words for you, try not to overreact, and that applies to everyone else, as well. If you want to buy a Mercedes for what it is [solidly built for the long haul, above average ride/handling combo, good brakes, excellent safety record] then do. But you also need to know what it isn't: Japanese.
What that means is that over the life of the car [say 10-15 years and 120-180k miles] you will LIKELY have to spend many more dollars and many more hours at your friendly dealer to keep the car on the road. Again, everybody please remain calm at your keyboards...I'm talking about the statistical probabilities. This doesn't mean you won't find a trouble-free MB that goes the distance without major repairs and attention...it just means you are far more likely to have that happen with Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura. And in the case of the W203 C, it seems to have taken an inordinate amount of time for the initial teething problems to settle down. As a contrast, my '96 RL was number 1350 off the production line as a brand-new design, and was close enough to flawless to qualify for the term.
There are good reasons why, after all these years, the Germans are getting better but still haven't caught up. Most of it has to do with the way the Japanese manage their supplier relationships, and how they jump quickly on supplier problems and COOPERATE to help them solve them quickly. They truly become lifetime partners with many of their subcontractors, and are obsessive about testing and problem-solving. The Germans care, too...they just don't have the same management culture, and at DB in particular, there is also the problem of management being thinned by the twin distractions of Chrysler and Mitsu. Dieter Z. would sure be helping Mercedes a lot more in his old job than the Mission Impossible he has been handed in Detroit.
I keep saying, buy what you want for whatever reasons you want. I love Mercedes and their heritage and engineering culture...but don't look for the kind of ownership experience you will get from Lexus. It is a mistake to go in up front with the wrong colored glasses perched on your nose...you have to be prepared to open your wallet and exercise more patience to be a happy MB owner. If you have both, then plunge ahead...