Mazda MPV

rutger3 · June 2001

Another interesting topic. I am comparing the 2001 MPV against my 1994 Villager. Yes, the MPV is much nicer in most areas,HOWEVER,it is hard to believe that in 7 years,mileage has not improved with the MPV 18/23,Villager 17/23,and the Villager is 353 lbs heavier! Once again,the auto mfgs are getting away with classifying minivans as 'trucks'and thus allowed to pass off inferior engineering on the consumer. I also blame the FORD built 2.5 V6,which in no way resembles a Toyota or Honda engine for efficiency.How else do you explain the overweight Odyssey with a much larger engine getting better mileage. I blame Mazda,Ford,the auto mfg's,Washington,George Bush,and my neighbor for this. Just my 2 cents.

gunga64 · June 2001

I dont consider the mileage on the MPV that bad. If you compare it to the Honda its right up there. I think it gets 1/2 to 1 mpg less if any. I still think the mpv gets about the same mileage as the Honda if you dont dog the engine. Again when you buy a Honda or Toyota you expect an excellent engine. Which indeed you do get. Mazda I think is a little farther behind those 2 and so is everyone else in the market I think. I mean look whos making the electric cars toyota and honda. They know how to make engines.

As far as leasing goes I don't see any advantage, I'd just buy the MPV or any car right out. Leasing would be a big problem if you put over 12k on a car a year which I can do in about 7 months.

julyar · June 2001

I think mileage has not been a top priority for cars since the late 70s and early 80s when price of oil had skyrocketed. One evidence is the new SUVs which get bigger, less gas efficient, less practical and more expensive. It is absolutely no surprise that the mileage isn't any better in fact in a lot of cars it is probably worse! My 1984 Nissan Sentra got 35/50 mpg, but the new 2001 Sentra gets 27/35. As long as the customer keep wanting bigger and faster and not caring about efficiency, you won't see significant improvements in gas mileage. I will personally look seriously at getting an electric or hybrid car for my next purchase (still a good few years away, my 94 Maxima has 65K on it so it will be good for a while).

As far as comparing the Duratech 2.5 to the Honda 3.5, I am not an engineer, but EPA rates both engines at 18 mpg city and 23/25 MPV/Honda freeway, so they are the same in the city, and only marginally better on the freeway. But also keep in mind that the ODY's recommended fuel is 91 octane to MPV's 87, so annualized, you will probably pay more or the same amount of money for gas.

just my 3 cents (inflation!!)

DTKWOK · June 2001

For the record, 91 octane is only a recommendation by Honda to acheive the most hp and torque. Many Ody owners do use 87 octane and have had no problems with it. (I average 24-25 mpg, 75% hwy/25% city.) But all in all mileage depends on how many people you're carrying, using climate control or not, correct tire pressure, type of gas used (oxygenated, MTBE, etc..), driving style, etc...

msgjvh · June 2001

I know your frustated with MPG's. So am I. I am also frustrated with the fact that credit card interest remains sooo high while interest rates fall. It is a matter of simple economics. The consumer isn't "demanding" higher MPG's. Instead they purchase the large SUV's. Therefore it is not cost effective for the automakers to step up to the plate and give us better mileage.

Can Washington step in and begin making significant changes? Of course they can but only if you and I the voters make it a big enough stink. Quite frankly, most of us seem to be too busy for such a protest.

Finally, (please don't take this that I am a big Bush supporter) I fail to understand how a president that has been in office for less than 6 months can be held accountable for MPG on vehicles produced prior to the elections. If you want a figure head to blame you should look to Mr Clinton. After all he had eight years to effect a change and per your own post and Julyar's the only change has been negative.

At least with George drilling new wells the price may drop, but I doubt it.

Tanks

MSGJVH

stevecanuck · June 2001

Look, MPG is a non-issue for the huge majority of auto buyers. People want bigger vehicles, more powerful engines, and more coffee cup holders. Of the three, only the last isn't going to degrade MPG performance.

It doesn't matter how many models of little box cars with hybrid engines are out there if everyone wants great big vehicles with great 0-60 times.

If someone can't afford the gas, than they should worry about MPG. But then they probably should also buy a cheaper vehicle.

rutger3 · June 2001

Okay,I admit it,I am a bit obsessive when it comes to gas mileage.I dislike spending more than necessary on something which will only be burned up,thats why I always use 87 octane and buy it whereever it is cheapest. Plus,my commute to work and back is 100 miles,so I am always in the gas station even with my 4 cyl. Camry which gets 28-31 mpg. I keep my cars tuned up and check my tire pressure at least every 2 weeks. This vehicle will be for my wife and 2 kids around town,and for family vacations,probably 12-15k/year. I guess what irks me about the Mazda is that they were conned into using the 2.5 duratec by Ford. Probably,the 3.0 liter V6 Nissan built engine in my 1994 Villager is a better engine,and this kind of bums me out when 7 years go by and I feel like I am taking a step backwards at least in the engine.But then I also remind myself about those wonderful automatic seat belts in the Villager,and only 1 airbag,and the 80,000 miles on it,and the broken rear wiper motor. I do like everything else about the MPV,which is a nice vehicle. Now I must decide between the MPV with its great styling,convienent 3rd seat,and financial incentives;or the Highlander and its more efficient and superior 4 cylinder with VVTI,and of course the lack of inventory. I think I may need counseling.

whisper1 · June 2001

The Duratec engine is an old design - it used in the contour for 4-5yrs, took another 2-3yrs on the drawing board; it is ~7 yrs old! I don't believe there was ongoing enhancements. I agree that it is reliably based on the contour owners, but hardly hitech by today's standard. Look at Chrsyler's new 2.5L pumps out 200hp. It is unfair to compare the MPV to other minis on performance and MPG. All the current minis engines have been updated periodically, this accounts for higher hp and better MPG despite they are all heavier! But there is a price for everything, this shortcoming has been factored in the price.

rblader · June 2001

Interesting discussion. I think the bottom line is Mazda really needs to put a larger displacement engine on the MPV. IMHO, the reason why the 2.5L doesn't get better mileage as it's supposed to get is due to the MPV's gearing not because it's "low-tech" or whatever. Mazda's engineers had to use less efficient gearing ratios to get acceptable performance forcing the engine to rev relatively higher (less efficient) compared to it's competition especially at high cruising speeds(70+ mph). The same engine gets 20city/29highway when used in the Mercury Cougar - not the best mileage but pretty decent for sporty coupe with 170hp. And one minor correction, Chrysler's 200hp V6 is a 2.7 not a 2.5.
If the 3.0L Duratec does indeed make it into the 2002 MPV, it'll probably have the same mileage as the 2.5L because it would allow Mazda to use more efficient gearing ratios.
Duratecs are indeed not state of the art designs by todays standards. But they're not low-tech either. In my book, a chain driven-DOHC/24-valve V6/dual length intake runner induction/ distributor-less semi-direct ignition/ 6500rpm redline/ (7500rpm redline in the Contour SVT?) is by any means not low-tech. Small for a minivan? Absolutely! Low-tech? No way. I even read somewhere that when the Duratecs/Zetecs were in the drawing boards, the engineers even made provisions for a possible addition of variable valve timing in the future. I believe that the upcoming Focus SVT (Zetec 2.0L DOHC I4) has some sort of VVT to help it make 170hp - not quite Honda/Toyota/BMW VVT levels of efficiency yet but it's a start.
Peace...

tboner1965 · June 2001

Was on Wards Auto 10 Best Engines in 1998 and 1999. That to me says regardless of high tech or low tech, it was amongst the "Best Tech" out there.

Of course I'm biased, I have one of those SVT engines :^D

The Zetec has had VCT (Variable cam timing) on the exhaust since 1998 or 1999, but primarily to eliminate the EGR system.

TB

dougsey · June 2001

With 600 miles on my van I am pleased to report 23 mpg from my last tank of 87 octane.

My commute is 18 miles each way with speeds in the 35-50 mph range and maybe 4 red lights. I've been using the a/c about 50% of the time.

rblader · June 2001

OMG! I think I'll never speed again after seeing this website.

WARNING!!! Please do not look at this if you're sensitive! It's gruesome!

<http://www.worldzone.net/sports/300z/crash.html>

alexv1n · June 2001

Well, those pics... It took me two hours to get hold of myself again... I strongly not recommend viewing those photos to anyone who has weak nerves (I thought I was good at it :-)

Anyway, it really did make me re-evaluate my driving habits (that's good, anyway). I guess I'll maybe save the pics locally for a day when I begin to belive that nothing bad can ever happen to me...

maltb · June 2001

because I about lost it over those pics.

drew_ · June 2001

Aww, sick! I had to close my eyes and close the window after seeing two pics!

alexv1n · June 2001

Lucky you... You didn't browse to the last two photos! Yuk!

drew_ · June 2001

I'm curious, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to have my dinner and I'll have nightmares tonight! But I did send the link to a bunch of friends of mine ;-p

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

P.S. I did warn them though ;-)

osaka · June 2001

Hi,

I said about new two engines, which are 3.0L by Ford and 2.3L with Direct Fuel Injection system by Mazda, would be added on new MPV and the present 2.0L would go out at the next change in my post #1746 on Jun,27th.

Reconfirming this magazine, it also mentions that the new 3.0L will replace the present 2.5L. and Mazda will be able to compete well with competitors.

I guess the new MPV for N/A is only 3.0L.

As for AWD for N/A ,I have been inquiring to Mazda on the Web. and to the near dealership

in Japanese since I visited this forum. But, nobody response me at the present.

I would continue it still more.

I heard from a salesperson of Mazda that Kilometer Per Liter of 3.0L on AWD Tribute is good. It’s about 10 K.P.L. at stop and go traffic in the city.

The K.P.L. of my AWD MPV isn’t so good as Tribute, about from 5.5 to 6.7 in the city and about from 9.0 to 11.5 in the Tomei and Meishinn highway where are between Tokyo and Osaka. But, I’m satisfied and proud of all except fuel consumption.

If someone likes the Japanese home-page and after-market items on MPV and others, please refer to this Japanese website. Excuse me in case you can’t see except for Japanese.

http://www5.cds.ne.jp/%7Eyoshioka/index.html

Thanks, Osaka.

drew_ · June 2001

That's for your great information!

You can write the message in Microsoft Word, as you have been doing, and then copy and paste it into the text box here in Town Hall. However, you have to first turn off Word's smartquotes feature. Those special (and hidden) codes in Word are the reasons why you have those strange codes in place of the apostrophes and such; they're being copied over as well. If you wish to compose a message offline, you can also use an ASCII compatible application such as Notepad.

Hope this helps!

Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

rutger3 · June 2001

I went to my local Mazda dealer today and received the following final firm offer.

2001 MPV LX
security pkg
rear air
roof rack
MSRP $25,105

Offered at $23140
before rebate and taxes.

On my trade: 1994 Mercury Villager GS: 79,300 miles,original owner,rear air,abs,cruise,7 seating,roof rack,alloy wheels,cassette,privacy glass,pw,pl,pm,pst,decent condition,no major repairs: he offered $4500. I believe this is low,but looking for opinions. They seemed to think once it hit 80,000 miles,it would be more difficult to trade. Any thoughts would be appreciated as this deal is only through Monday.

P.S. I am still considering the Toyota Highlander, 4cyl,2wd,MSRP $25,450. Probably get no more than $1000 off sticker. Payments would be 40-60 more per month depending on financing. I like the price,financing,and most about the MPV,my only concerns are resale value,and the 'small' V6. The Highlander although more,would be better on gas by about 4 miles per gallon,and I believe the engine may be more advanced. But,is it worth $50 more per month???

pjd58 · July 2001

what do you mean before rebate? Who is the $1500.00 rebate going to? If it's going to the dealer, it's a lousy deal, IMHO. If you are applying the $1500 to bring the final price down to $21,640 + tax, it's a AWESOME deal. Best I've ever heard of. I have the same options, plus 4 seasons and paid $22,500 and with only a $500.00 rebate that went to the dealer.

The Invoice of your MPV is right about $23,000. I would offer $23,400 less $1500 incentive( to dealer)= $21,900+ tax. There is $400 dollar profit, plus a 2% holdback to the dealer and the money they will make off your trade. Check the Bluebook wholesale value of your Villager, should be closer to $5,500+. Early models of Villager/Quest haven't held their value well.

I would be very leary of any dealer that says this deal is only good to a certain day. Although, Mazda's incentives change this Monday, July 2.

As far as the Toyota Highlander. IMO, it's a very nice car. I've only seen a few Highlanders and it's a sharp SUV. Comparing it to the MPV is like comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare the Sienna and MPV it would be alot easier. The Highlander is in the first year of production and has had a few issues, just like the MPV last year. Alot of people have complained that the Highlander has had a TON of road noise. But overall, the quality has been very good, another Japan built product. Our 01 LX has been perfect( 3 months-3500 miles) I've been following this forum and other van forums for over 6 months and without a doubt, the MPV is the most reliable new minivan on the road. Drivetrain is fine for us, other's are waiting for the 3.0.

Rurger3, I'm no expert and my opinion's can be taken with a grain of salt. I love cars and research them to death, especially new models.

I wish you all the best, let us know what you decide.
Pete

osaka · July 2001

Hi Drew
Now I see. Thank you for your suitable and kindly advice.
It was not until you said me in #1772 that I learned the its cause.
Regards,
Osaka

rutger3 · July 2001

pjd58: The $23,140 price is before a $1000 rebate to me bringing the final price to $22,140, plus 4.9% financing for 60 mths. I live in New Jersey.

Do you think Mazda will sweeten their current rebates or financing when this one runs out?

pjd58 · July 2001

it's a crap shoot, new incentives should be announced Tue, July 3. I live in the midwest and our incentive is $1500 without Mazda's finance. I believe your deal is pretty good, especially 4.9% financing. I think you should be able to squeeze a little more on your trade. Your Mazda dealer is only going to make money on your trade.

A few other points, Do you like the dealership and trust them? Are you going to bring the MPV back to them for service?

The MPV has side airbags( security pkg) and alloy wheels and lot more features than the 4cy HL and is alot easier on your wallet. No crash data available on the HL, although I suspect the HL will do well. The MPV has 4 front and 5 on the side. Just a notch below the Sienna and Ody.

The Toyota dealerships in my area are kind of sleezy. Not to say, all Toyo dealers are sleezeballs.
Our Mazda dealer is terrific and the service is exceptional. I would have had no problem paying a few more $$s for our van since I trust our dealer and service dept, I also own a Protege.

Btw, my sister lives in Bergen County, she owns a Windstar.....AGGGh!
Any more questions, give me a shout.

drew_ · July 2001

The link to the IIHS offset crash test results for the '00-current MPV can be found in the additional resources box on the left hand column of this page, or by clicking here:

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00011.htm

Osaka, you're very welcome! :-)

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

rutger3 · July 2001

Thanks for your input pjd58.Who knows what Mazda will do with their next program. Think I can get the dealer to share this with me before committing on current deal? I would hate to finish a deal on 7/2/01 at 4.9%, then have the new program on 7/3 come out at 2.9%. That would really tick me off.

I have thought of one more advantage for the Highlander,gas mileage. 23/27 vs. 17/23. This would calculate to about $200 more per year in gas for the MPV, or about $16 per month, or about $1000 savings over 5 years. I do HATE to overpay for gas,plus I am somewhat of an Environmentalist; so although there are many things the MPV has that the HL doesn't, the gas thing would bother me. But then I think about how hard it is to get an HL and how some of the Toyota dealers are,then think otherwise. It is a shame that Mazda/Ford didn't make the engine more efficient,but I realize nothing can be done about it now.

cas6 · July 2001

hey rutger3 (go scarlet knights !) i am in nj, too, and i was very unhappy with salesmen at mazda dealership in watchung. i think i got a salesperson who was on his first day of work. what dealership did you deal with ? were you comfortable with them ? thanks.

pjd58 · July 2001

cost will probably be higher with the HL vs. the MPV. Rutger3, I wouldn't worry about a couple of hundred $$$s on operating expenses per year. The car I want would be the deciding factor.

rutger3 · July 2001

cas6, I am dealing with Flemington Mazda. They seem to be fairly pleasant. I have not heard anyting negative about them. If you went to Cyrstal auto mall on rte 22,then I am not surprised that you weren't happy,their reputation is not the best. I am having a real hard time deciding between the MPV and the Toyota Highlander. Plus dealing with a trade-in is a real pain. Add this to the fact that buying a new car to me is not a pleasant experience makes for a stressful time. I would almost rather do nothing as I become number obsessed.

gunga64 · July 2001

My price without haggling on an:

2001 lx
with rear ac
alloywheels, sideairbags and maybe a few other things that are in that package

21700 which for me includes the 1500.00 rebate
need to add tax tag title and maybe a hidden 400 fee im not sure yet on that fee

This isn't a bad deal at all. One of the dealers here has about 60 base lx or dx on the lot, and for some unknown reason expects to have 100 on the lot. I have no idea why. I haven't even bargained with them yet.

Also I'm going let this 1500 rebate go till I have all my cash in 2 weeks. If i miss 500 of it I'll rethink my purchase.

I'm still going to dealerships and looking at other things besided the mpv, hl or sienna. I must say every dealer I have gone to the salesmen looked bored to death. Sales have to be slow. One dealer had over 40 salesmen on saturday doing nothing. This was in a Toyota dealership.

This saturday the toyota dealer I went to had a supposedly huge sale.
They sold 7 cars for the day when I left at 5pm. Mostlly corollas camarys or trucks. No high end autos. Their average is usually 14 a day. Sales are killing these people I'm not kidding. The more we wait the better I think we can do.

msgjvh · July 2001

At some point you begin to lose all the fun of having a new car. Get in the car and pick the one you feel the best in. Either one will be a good choice. Drive them around and settle on a decision. It is tough I know I waited for a year, but all along I knew it was the MPV for me and my family. I regret waiting that long I lost out on at least $1000 rebate, got it back by shopping around and got $2k more for my trade. All in all I am a very happy camper. Take a Queen CD with you. One listen and you will know which is the right one for you!

cas6 · July 2001

thanks for the info. you were correct on the dealer i went to. obviously, i am waiting to see what the 2002's offer and how much they'll be. i'm also curious to find out whether mazda will improve on their incentives given the extremely competitive climate in the auto industry. these dealers have many 2001's on the lot, so when the '02's are available, perhaps the price on the '01's go down significantly.

devymum · July 2001

I bought last night MPV LX with leather, yes a LX with leather with following options, rear air, entertainment system ( video and TV), security package, fog light, roof rack and rear step bumper for $26100. I am sure that there still deals out there that are better, but I just love MPV. I feel safe in it. Yes it lack power, but I don't mind it at all. Especially after what happen to me.

I drove a explorer for 7 years until I back out of my driveway and someone hit me and flip the car over.

maltb · July 2001

Congrats on your purchase. How does the leather in your van compare to the OEM leather on the ES? I know that one can always shop for the lowest price until they are dead, but isn't that price close to an ES?

pjd58 · July 2001

congrats and welcome to the club. Never heard of a LX with leather, has to be aftermarket. Also, Maltb is right you should be able to get a ES with in that price range. Your LX sounds loaded, an ES would have included 16" wheels and I believe a 6cd changer. I may be missing something else.

devymum · July 2001

Dealer did put leather after market and I love the way it look better than ES. I did not like the way it look in the second row of captain chairs, it had a wrinkle look. They called it the European style. pjd58 is right about the 16" wheel and also in ES you get Super sound system with 9 speaker, but the 6 CD changer still an option in ES.

pjd58 · July 2001

I'm glad you like your aftermarket leather. Some leather installed looks better than original. IMO, the leather in the ES is just OK, I've seen better in other cars. We own an LX and surprisingly the beige cloth seats clean up real well, even without scotchguard. Although, the DX cloth is harder to keep clean.

Enjoy your van, you made a great choice.

gunga64 · July 2001

2 dealers told me the 1500 rebate ends on 7/2 yet my newspaper and carsdirect says it ends on 7/9. Anyone know which is true. I'm amazed how little the dealers know about their own plans sometimes. I asked one dealer does the 2001 have any problems with tierods and he said the MPV has never had any recalls. Skirting the question I would say.

msgjvh · July 2001

If your dealer tells you the MPV "never" had a recall he may be just down right lying! The 2000 has two documented recalls that I know of. One being for injectors I believe and the other for the bumber reinforcement. They may have classified the bumber thing as a service bulletin but it was more like a recall. At least he could tell you the true history. I hate when dealers do not know the cars they are selling. The least they could do while waiting for customers is search the net and compile information from sites like these. It would be nice to walk in and have a salesman have a binder with all the information on a vehicle. I would then be impressed.

rutger3 · July 2001

Well,after many months of research here and every magazine and newspaper article,after many test drives of several vehicles including the Ody,Sienna,Passat wagon,Subaru wagon,and the Highlander,I finally gave in and purchased an MPV on tuesday. Both my wife and I liked the MPV,but also saw things in the others we enjoyed,especially the HL. In brief, the Ody was too hard to get,couldn't even test drive a 2001,just a 2000. The Sienna,while quite nice,was about $2500 more and my wife was just so so on the looks. The subaru a bit small,the passat,fairly tough to get and no incentives or financing. It came down to the HL and the MPV.After dealing with the most obnoxious and arrogant salesman in the world at Lawernceville Toyota in NJ,we were turned off. We still gave our local dealer a shot,but he was not interested in locating what we wanted;only tried to sell one he had which wasn't the color or engine we wanted at a fairly high price.He tried backing into the monthly payment we wanted by extending the loan to 6 years,or asking for a large downpayment.The payments would have been about $70 more per mth than the MPV.My wife said she would be happy with either one,so we went back to our local Mazda dealer and put together a good deal(at least on the new car).
Thanks to all the posts here,which were instrumental in our decision. We got an LX in the sand mica color, will give more details later. By the way,I still 'miss' our 94 villager because of its great engine and no payments,I love no payments,but I think the MPV will prove to be a good choice.

utcarsons · July 2001

DH and I are considering purchasing a 01 ES. I am totally sold on the vehicle and am ready to go. Only problem is that since we've been considering one (a couple weeks) I've seen a total of 2 on the road...and I'm looking ALL the time. Does this worry anyone? We don't really plan on reselling the car anytime soon (but then again we didn't plan on selling the one we have 1.5 years ago when we drove it off the lot...lemon).

I see TONS of Odys and US minis on the road...?

Thanks
Jodie

alexv1n · July 2001

It all depends on the region, I guess. There are lots of MPVs on the roads of Ottawa. I now see 4-5 every day not counting the ones that I know neighbors and co-workers own. Many would even say it is a good thing because it gives you a sense of "uniqueness".

I wouldn't be that much concerned about this fact. Actually it even helps to keep the price low which is much more beneficial, right?

gunga64 · July 2001

I see 4 a MPV's a day, one in my parking lot at work. Mazda just isn't a big franchise like the others.

alexv1n · July 2001

I remember someone asking about whether it is possible to lower MPV so the large wheels look nicer. I cannot find that post any longer (however it appears to be no earlier than a couple of weeks ago).

Anyway, I stumble across this Japanese site that apparently deals with the same issue: http://www5.plala.or.jp/MPVGALLERY/asimawari.html

You can try using AltaVista translation service to at least try to render some information from it.

I hope it helps.

rutger3 · July 2001

Even after purchasing one,yes I do worry that you do not see many on the road. This is a concern for all MPV owners because of one thing, perception when it comes to resale value. Almost all the time,Toyota and Honda will hold their resale value better than Mazda. It generally has nothing to do with the overall quality of the vehicle,only perception of other buyers and this is what determines the value of your trade later on. The problem I see is that perception is reality. I hope I am wrong on this issue when it is time for me to trade mine in. If purchasing a van was based solely on dependability and resale than the Sienna is the choice. However,other things like cost,dealers,appearance also effect the decision. My wife really liked the MPV and that was a factor,as she is the primary driver.Throw in the rebates and financing and handling,that sold us. If I am proved wrong,I will never forgive myself as I am the type that obsesses about these things. On my block,we have a Sienna,Caravan,Windstar,Villager,and now an MPV. I'm not sure what that says.

j2kbarlow · July 2001

Hopefully this info isn't too late for some of the people struggling with decisions about the MPV. I just traded my '98 Subaru Outback in on a 2001 MPV (sniff). Interestingly, when I first started looking at the Subie 4 years ago, I was warned (by a Ford dealer - LOL) that Subarus don't hold their value. Well that was 4 years ago - now Outbacks have a great resale. You can't predict the future. And we're talking about minivans, probably some of the most abused and unloved vehicles on the road (there are exceptions though - don't take that as a flame). They get spit up in, kool-aid spilled on, potted plants dumped in, etc. The 2.5L has held up well in Contours (one of its few strong points), so I wouldn't let that make or break your decision (as compared to Hondas/Toyotas). That said, having both bought and leased cars in the past 6 years, buying is the way to go for most people. Even though my Outback wasn't paid for completely (one year left), I got a better deal by trading it than if it had been a lease. Bottom line, I had EQUITY in it because I bought it. Not true with a lease. I didn't have a trade with my Subie (coming off the lease of a Contour, again ironically) so the only down payment I had was what was in my bank account. With the Subie as a trade, I had substantially more as a down payment and was able to significantly lower my monthly payments and the length of the financing. Anyway, sorry for the length; food for thought.

gunga64 · July 2001

Well we plan on keeping whatever we buy 8-10 years, I see no logical reason to lease something, when there are so many restrictions on leases to worry about. I can see a guy in a lease getting hit in an accident and the dealer giving him all kinds of hell at the end of his lease. Or putting too many miles on it. 12k is nothing, who the heck puts 12k on a car a year.

You shouldn't be buying a MPV for resale value, you should be driving it till it drops.

rutger3 · July 2001

Why me? I just bought an MPV thinking I have checked everything,then I find this. On the Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book sites for used vehicles,I input both the 2000 MPV LX and the 2000 Sienna LE,both in excellent condition. The MPV came back at $14203 on Edmunds, $15080 on Kelly. This is hard to believe after just one year that a $23k vehicle would depreciate that much,39%!!!. This compares to the Sienna which came in at $19649 and $19395. Yes, the Sienna cost more new by about $2500,but please do not tell me it is worth $4300-5400 more after only one year. Is this a freaking missprint or am I going to jump off a bridge. Someone help please.

rutger3 · July 2001

I am sitting here in a trance,stunned at the figures I just read. How can any vehicle depreciate that fast! What is Edmunds and Kelly thinking about when assigning trade in values. If what I read is true and I hope and pray it isn't,then the MPV,no matter how nice it is,and even with the rebates and financing is a horrible value! I am absolutely beside myself,so much that I feel like returning the van and demanding a refund,if legally I still have recourse. This is a nightmare,can someone please tell me I am wrong and those figures are not true. Sorry to vent,but I have spent so many hours on this board,and nowhere did I see anything about the ridiculous resale values.Could I be the only one to have checked this out,even though it may be too late.I do not want to admit I made a mistake,but I will if this proves true.

rblader · July 2001

Rutger, relax and stop stressing about the resale value of your MPV. Unless you're planning to get rid of your MPV within a few years, you really shouldn't worry. Just as in new vehicles, demand is usually what drives the prices of used vehicles and not always their actual usefulness and reliability. I'm sure that you've noticed that our MPVs are not that popular to the masses compared to the competition, hence the poor resale value. We all can thank the professional reviewers for that. (There's a flip side to this coin - low new selling prices.) And since most of us probably don't drag race our minivans anyway, I'm sure that a lot of us don't even care about what the reviewers think about the MPVs "lack of power" either. All I know is that I got the most loaded and highly reliable minivan for the least amount of money compared to what I would've paid for other minivans out there and it has enough power to cruise (yes, quietly and smoothly) at highway speeds. Some critics have said that it revs too high at highway speeds. But it reality, you really have to look at the tach to be aware of it. I'm planning to keep my MPV for at least 10 years so resale value is not that important. I'm not really worried about it's reliability down the line either. I think that all this talk from H*nd* and T*yot* owners about how super reliable their cars are compared to others is highly exaggerated. These days, I think that the reliability gap between reliable and unreliable vehicles is not that wide anymore. One of my other cars is a '92 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD which is supposed to be extremely unreliable. Well, after modifying and driving it hard for almost ten years and 150,000 miles, it's still running good and I've had minimal problems with it(failed alternator(replaced with a $45 rebuilt unit) and three (two under warranty) battery replacements. The key is proper care and maintenance. Yes, I have replaced a lot of other parts, but I did it in my personal quest for more and more power(because I do occasionally race it at the track), not because the original part failed. And yes, the tranny is still original. The factory stereo still works. All the power thingies still work. I never had to replace any fuses and all the lightbulbs are original and are all working. Unfortunately, I do have one rattle (right speaker) but no squeaks. But I'm used to it now.
Sorry if I got too far off topic. I had to "vent" too. : )

Mazda MPV

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