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I understand your point about TCO, Pjd58, but it may be a swing factor if you've narrowed your choices down to two or three models. And if you drive them forever, you really don't have to worry about depreciation.
Steve
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Even though MPV sales were strong for the month of July, annual sales still rank dead last, even below the lowly Kia and orphaned Quest/Villager.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svvan.asp
Resale:
In my opinion, there just isn't much demand any longer for "mini" minivans. Hybrids like the Highlander, Vue, Astek, etc are the new breed of "mini" minivan.
TCO:
Using Edmunds TCO, I noticed a similarly equipped MPV, DC, HL, and Big-O all had a similar ownership cost over 5 years between $0.46 and $0.47 per mile. This jives with my real world experience that in the end everyone pays about the same one way or another.
Steve
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Not having really messed w/ TCO much, is it figured off of MSRP or Edmunds' TMV? I know it'd make a world of difference which method were used.
Sniff... two more days of warranty on the beloved Mochavan! 28k miles and she's going strong! I have to repair some door dings, but what's life w/o its little challenges, right?
"The Purchase Price Total, is the sum of a vehicle's True Market Value price (another car-buying tool from Edmunds), typically equipped options, destination charge, base tax for the state and any applicable luxury/gas-guzzler taxes."
Note that manufacturer to consumer incentives aren't figured into our TMV (afaik).
Hopefully the next version or two of TCO will let you put your own "real" numbers into the calculator.
2 more days, eh? Welcome to my world then - I may still have a rust warranty, but that'd be about it!
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
My point is that the mini's are great cargo AND people haulers compared to (specifically) the HL with it's $30K basic price. Plus the fact of a better stereo system in the MPV than the base HL/non LTD. I have a 95 DC now and know the new ones are wider than the MPV, but darn, that MPV is a sweet smaller and sportier feeling rig compared to the newer DC's...decisions decisions...it's all about money too. That 200HP engine is a kick to kick in traffic on a test drive I did on a lighter vehicle than the DC or HL.
PS: I keep my vehicles for 8 years with high mileage, so trade-in values are nill for me anyway...the thing has just got to last for me. I think Toyota is getting over-rated too. My 99 Camry is not the same unit my 89 was in quality and sturdiness.
Thanks for comments and information you've given so far.
I agree with every single word of your message except the part about the radio being better in the MPV (keep in mind I have a base LX though). Plus I paid $500 over invoice for my HL, and my out the door price was nowhere near $30K. Just a tad over $25K for similar options and then some. Exactly what model MPV are you looking to buy? The only reason I ever saw not to buy the MPV was the 2.5L motor, and that's no longer an issue. Keep in mind you can always buy both. :-)
BTW, I didn't understand what you meant by, "That 200HP engine is a kick to kick in traffic on a test drive I did on a lighter vehicle than the DC or HL." Was there a typo?
Tccmn1, nice post. I've a good mind to link it to the I Don't Like SUVs, Why Do You discussion :-). People used to brag highly about the Caravan sound systems, but I'm a fan of the (perhaps soon to be extinct in North America) smaller minivans. If you could see the 6 foot long scrape I put in my van, you'd understand why I don't want a bigger one!
Steve
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I've noticed over the years that ours is one of the few MPVs that has both GFX and the roof rack. The MPVs I've seen with GFX but not the roof rack just don't look right. I don't know why.
It's a beautiful blue 2002, and it looks a whole bunch like the one in post #3881.
<note for the host>
After writing this post, I put 3881 into the magic box to make sure I got the post # correct. When I did, it took me to post #3733. Can you please pass this on to the Tech Gods at Edmunds? Thanks!
What I meant is that the MPV is a lighter vehicle with that new 200HP engine...and that it get's up and goes real nice now. The HL has the 220HP, but is heavier and, I think, the mileage on the MPV is better than the HL overall...but I may be wrong.
The radio deal on the HL base units has been discussed on their thread a lot. People have been describing different methods to boost the mid-range by holding in one of the knobs for 10 seconds..or something like that.
I have listened to the HL base unit on a test drive and thought the radio just sounded 'cloudy' compared to the crisp clearer sound in an ES MPV I drove. My old DC has an INFINITY unit and speakers in it..which at the time was pretty cool in sound....maybe I'm use to that.
Actually, both dashboards (HL and MPV) look similar regarding the radio positioning and the knobs for heat, etc. in the center section. Both are easy to reach and understand. I wish Mazda would shorten or bend that darn shifter lever out of the way though.
Unless you get a base 4 cylinder HL, I sure couldn't muster a deal for less than $28K plus tax, license, shipping on a V6 base HL. This was $500 over invoice earlier in the summer. Maybe the local dealers in the TC's are gouging us...?
I see more of the HL's on the Toy lots now than earlier in the summer...and I really don't see that many at all on the roads around here. More MPV's for sure. But that's why they sell all these models, because we all have our favs.
Thanks again, TC
-Brian
I hear the GFX option will be available in Midnight blue next year. Does anyone know if it can be purchased as an add-on for previous years? Thanks for the input.
pat "Lost in the Town Hall? Ask the Sedans Host for directions!" Nov 13, 2001 4:49pm
Hope this helps,
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I pull into a small parking lot 40 miles north of town in the middle of the piney woods for a soccer tournament last weekend and park between TWO MPV's...but I had the only red one!!
Java: Yeah, about 250 miles and I turn the magic 30K also - should be about Thursday I think - maybe tomorrow...depends where soccer practice is.. )
Kinda upsetting I never took advantage of the warranty. I didn't think they were going to replace my SMALL ashtray so I never tried ..the only thing I could complain about.
It makes sense, but I think the folks at web crossings could fix it.
On the other hand, now I know that about 150 posts have been deleted in this topic.
I think I've got it! Lets say the "absolute number" is a set number like "MSRP." And lets say the "relative number" is a variable like "sale price." Then if Edmunds' purchased their software from Honda, both numbers would be equal and the Go To function would work?
Better make that soon to be 151 post. ;-)
Always thought the purpose of a lease was to drive new. Depending on how many years you are talking about, I think I'd go for the new 2002 LX.
Both vehicles weigh about the same and get about the same gas mileage. I have the 3.0L V6 in the HL, and I bought it over a year ago, about 3 months after it was introduced.
The old software couldn't keep up with the posts and WebX was the best option available that allowed us to keep the conversation style format. Those of you used to threaded discussions may be surprised to learn that some of us like it this way! Oh well.
No plans to bring back hidden posts, but some progress was being made on the search tool when the server started messing up with a new flavor of the software.
Our Software! Your Questions Answered... may actually answer more of your questions.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
However it does say that "5W-20 will provide the lowest emissions and highest fuel economy".
After lurking & reading in this board, I finally
took a plunge and purchased a white 02 MPV LX
last Sat 8/24/02 on my 2.5 yrs son birth day.
I like to thank everone who contributes
to this board, esp, Arthur, who's
kind enough to respond to my questions
I should have picked a different color since
white color gets dirty pretty quick, but my
son wants a white ambulance. So got his wish.
I just hope that he grows up faster to
wash his white ambulance.
Here my deal at MAGNUSSEN'S Fremont Mazda.
All negotiation was done over email&phone.
The Internet sale mgr is: Bruce Marinance
LX + Security pkg+ Dual AC+ Roof rack + Rear
step plate + Floor mat.
22,755 Invoice
-200 Dealer discount
+tax+license + doc fees
-2000 Mazda rebate
---------
22,660.50 Out the door price
Many happy, safe miles zooming!
Pjd58
Outrageous MPV
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
BTW, I change every 5k mi or 4 mos.
--kcz
That's one trick MPV! I just got a new Crutchfield catalog yesterday... Bazooka's marketing an 'NOS Bazooka Subwoofer.' It's basically a Bazooka amplified sub in a fake NOS tube. Looks pretty authentic! Maybe you need one for the Quillagerst, Steve!
Yes, I'm busy being Norm Avery these days. I just ordered a quart of color code 18J paint and some clear, to take care of the door dings on the van (content). I'm planning on (finally) doing a writeup on fixing the dings.
Of course I never did that but it was fun to watch everyone avoiding my car llike the plague.
JAVA: If you have never seen a swimming pool up there in artic land let me know & I'll send a picture.. )
Of course, it's raining today...
oh, content... Sorry, gotz none!
once
NICE lawn. What do you feed it with? Fish powder?
OK, back to content...Ahhhh, are there aftermarket floor mats that would cover the whole area (no gap) on the first row. Try to get ready for the snow season. I heard that hoopofficial has gotten a pretty decent set somewhere.
wxwiz, I've not had a single key-related issue, and believe me, the keys for the MPV get some serious abuse. The dw keeps only the mailbox and her office keys on the ring w/her van keys; I have the spare key on a key ring w/ a ton of other keys, and it works fine. Anyone had a problem w/a key?
Hope that helps!
Oh, and thanks for spreading the love, you clowns!!! And I don't think the munchkins have figured out the aerial entry method...yet. It'll be their last stunt, I'm sure. >;-)
I wouldn't worry over much about it. Seems a pretty secure system.
RJ
Can you please give me location(city/state/phone#) of dealer willing to sell below invoice a 2002 MPV ES?
Thanks in advance.
I've yet to meet a dealer that wouldn't sell a minivan below invoice (Big-O dealers excluded). They will simply make their profit elsewhere. For example, through financing, by charging you a ridiculous doc fee, low balling you on your trade, extended warranties, or by adding worthless packages/options etc. Just march down to your local Mazda dealer and tell them that you're not going to pay a lot for this MPV! And if all else fails, try the link posted below.
http://www.invoicedealers.com
BTW, has anyone noticed that invoice pricing has risen from ~90% to ~92% of MSRP over the past few years? And we thought we were such shrewd buyers. :-)
Got a quick question...on the ventilation system, does the A/C automatically engage when you select the windshield defogger vents? Does it automatically engage at any other selection, like feet/dash, or just dash?
I haunt the Protege boards and saw there that this is the way the ventilation system works on the current Mazda Protege.
I rented a 2002 MPV at the end of July, but I really can't recall if this is the case. I really HATE when they set up these systems to automatically engage the compressor. Thanks for your replies.