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Comments
The dealer told me my Vibe is in transit. I should have it early next week. I am lucky they have one in transit. Otherwise factory order will take about 8~10 weeks. I used all of my GM points (worth about $2,900) for the Vibe. In future, I will use Citibank's driver's edge card instead of new GM card. Only get 2% benefit from driver's edge card but you can use it for all kinds of cars--include used cars.
I saw Aerio the other day in a mall parking lot. Front looking is cute. Reak looking is a little different. I believe the market for this kind of higher wagon, or sport wagan, or CUV, whatever they call it, will be good. Van is too big for small families and no fun to drive. Most of SUV are too expensive. I almost go for a Saturn Vue this time but my wife prefer Vibe.
Alden said they have one of each. Will try Fiore this afternoon.
mnontanafan : Not sure why these Vibes are so scarce. I wish they would get some numbers out before they start advertising. Very frustrating to see 1 car for testing only.
Checked with my friend - his Celica GTS cost 32K Canadian plus taxes 2 years ago (it has leather, which top Vibe/Matrix doe not). Nevertheles, these cars are competitive in price to the Celica.
Many say the Vibe looks better, but there aren't as many at dealers, and they definitely are more expensive to start with while probably being worth less than the Toy just a few months from now.
Perhaps, as has been said before, the pricing difference is to allow GM room for its traditional incentives, but it may instead push customers to the friendly, local Toyota dealer (or even the unfriendly, local Toyota dealer getting MSRP for Matrices!)
johnclineii : Nothing depreciates less than a Corvette. Of course most people can't afford one.
I did actually seem my first Vibe on the road. It was a base with aluminum wheels. A 30-35 year old woman was driving it. She was wearing a business suit. Is the Vibe / Matrix a chick car? Everyone I've seen driving these things are women!
So Where are all the Vibes going? Are they that behind in production compared to the MAtrix?
I have a C5 (summer car) and an LHS (winter car), and my wife drives a leased Expedition (big mistake car - well, at least she got it out of her system now).
The lease on the Expy is up in a couple of months and we have been looking to rectify this mistake on a more reasonable vehicle choice for her. She needs something that can occasionally haul a few Design supplies for her clients.
Minivans are out (enough said), and we don't want something that looks like dad's old estate station wagon. She originally was interested in an Aztek (ouch), and actually managed to drag me to the dealer to look at one when we saw the new Vibe GT sitting in the showroom. We both went right to it, and at the same time said "what a cool car!". Now, we can probably afford most cars out there today, but we don't want to unnecessarily give donations to a car company (ie. Expy mistake) for no good reason. Also, I am very biased against imports, so we just focus on the big 3.
My point is that this car appeals to many different types of buyers and I think it will be a big seller. I just hope it drives well. That GT was sold, so we couldn't take it for a test.
Dindak - I wish I could agree with you that Corvettes hold their value well, but these days, I don't think anything is doing very well. I don't even want to know how much the value of my 2001 has dropped in one year. Doesn't matter though, because I never plan to get rid of it anyway. (maybe thats why they hold their value?)
Is it a Chick Car? - hmmmm... I would guess that more women than men are going to buy one. But, I'll definitely still drive it once in while (which is more than I could say if she ever bought an Aztek...).
Later...
I don't really care about the chick car thing, more of an observation. I like the Vibe, but my wife is luke warm at best.
As for Corvettes, I love them so I look at the prices all the time. They definitely hold their value well if they are taken care of and depending on the model year. Very collectible. You are right, if/when I get one I will likely never sell it.
Matrix + Toyota's reputation for quality and reliability.
Matrix - Lack of body side molding to protect the beautiful job they did on the sheet work.
Matrix - Lack of a roof rack.
Vibe + Side molding.
Vibe + Roof rack.
Vibe - The left-over Aztec cladding.
Vibe - GM's lack of reputation for quality and
reliability.
Dindak - no order placed yet. With the other two cars in the garage, we have lots of time to wait out the initial rush and let things settle down a bit (as long as it stops snowing by May, so the Vette can come out).
The Kansas City area dealers had anywhere from 0 to 5 Vibes when I started looking early in March (according to the GM BuyPower web site). About half of the Vibes listed locally were Satellite, and rest were a mix of the rest of the colors (except Envy - no one had that yet). The Vibe that I purchased was listed on GM BuyPower as being in the dealer's inventory about 2 weeks before they actually received it. My dealer had sold another one the same day that I picked mine up, and I know another local dealer that has already sold 4.
The NUMMI plant were the Vibe is manufactured has always had a very good reputation for quality. The Matrix and the Vibe share a lot of components, and I suspect that they will be pretty similar in reliability.
As for holding value, price a 1 to 2 year old Honda, particularly Accords. I bet you will find the percentage of value retained to be MUCH higher than a Corvette the same age.
johnclineii : I've seen 2 year old Corvettes with 10-15K on them selling for about 90-95% of original list. You won't see that on any Accord.
joelis : Vibe is all Toyota mechanicals but the interior and exterior is all Pontiac. There is quite a bit of GM design in the car. It's too bad it doesn't have a GM 2.2L Ecotec power train as the Toyota 1.8L isn't all that great.
I wonder if part of the appeal to Toyota customers is that the Matrix has a Pontiac interior!
That's not quite accurate....
Also, as said above, the Corolla and Vibe are running down the same production line. Same machines and people are doing the production. Quality is a very big deal.
No doubt the engine is reliable and the noise is certainly at an acceptable level, it just more noise than I'm used to. I think many younger buyers will probably like that a lot. Maybe I'm just getting old huh?
;-)
dongdong- Congrats as well! Sorry, I missed your previous message... otherwise I would have spoken sooner. Have you taken delivery yet?
Happy motoring everyone!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
I've already seen 3 new Corollas and 2 or 3 new Matrices...
But no Vibes. What gives?
Maybe the pricing!
I realize you can also compare notes with each other in the separate Matrix and Vibe discussions, but I also thought creating a combined discussion specifically for this purpose might be helpful.... Let me know what you think.
Also, if you do like the idea, any suggestions for a title... "Matrix & Vibe comparison" or on a more friendly note "Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts (Shared info.)" Thanks for your input.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Stephen
who's half deaf anyway, drives a 12-year-old 240sx, and probably would think a diesel Ram 3500 Dually pulling a trailer is quiet enough.
Here is a March 20, 2002 review by Greg Wilson on his experience of driving the AWD Vibe from Calgary to Vancouver going through the snow, sand and rocks.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/drivethevibe.htm
And this answer is not meant to be sarcastic. The prices are different because different companies set them--companies that have different costs, different incentive programs (if any), and different profit expectations.
Let's look at that. Toyota and its dealers have a reputation for not dealing off MSRP that much. The cars sell as soon as they are put on the lot, typically. So the Toyota retail price is much closer to the final transaction price. GM, on the other hand, runs incentives frequently. It is the company that started (and drug Ford and Chrysler with them kicking and screaming) the $2002 Keep America Rolling Rebates (which I don't think apply to Vibe). It also has a large credit card incentive program. All this must be factored into the prices. Plenty of room to deal is normally built into GM's retail prices, as a rule.
Different costs? Matrices are built in Canada, where the Canadian dollar is at all time lows against the US dollar. So, in the US, there is a currency advantage on the Toyota. In Canada, shipping costs would be less on the Toy. Also, more Matrices can be built than can Vibes, as the Vibe plant, NUMMI, in Fremont, California, also builds pickups (or at least their beds), Corollas and Japan-bound Matrix/Vibes (actually Vibes) called Toyota Voltz. Less supply, assuming demand is constant (which it is not), means a higher retail cost and more profit for the sellers.
Too, the Matrix assumes a cameo performance at many Toyota dealers, whereas most Pontiac dealers are dual lined with other GM products and the new Vibe is nowhere near as important to the average dealer. It must share the limelight with anything from Cadillacs to Impalas to Grand Prixs to, not for long, Oldsmobiles.
And initial pricing for the Vibe in the USA was set before the Matrix, I believe. GM may at some point either not raise prices as quickly as Toyota, or change equipment levels, or if the car doesn't sell rapidly, increase incentives or have lease deals. I doubt that happens any time soon.
Many Pontiac customers would NOT shop for a Toyota (I don't want no furrn car...), and many Toyota customers would not shop a Vibe even if they know the car is virtually identical (I want Toyota quality, not GM junk). So, cross shopping is not a major factor. Many customers at this point probably do not even realise the cars share so much in common.
Finally, Toyota doesn't have the advantage of traffic coming into the dealership to see the Toyota Aztek!
What is Standard Equipment in the wags for the Vibe GT vs the Matrix XRS
Roof Rack
Rear Seat Heater Ducts
Block Heater
Side Airbags
ABS (the Base model for Toyota does not have this)
Cladding (?)
Other differences:
I think both of them have the same Monsoon Stereo System which is from Delco (?). Toyota does not specify the name of it's stereo on its brochure.
As for the cargo space..hmmm, how come Vibe has 19.2 cubic feet (the website has 24.6) vs Matrix's 15.1 cubic feet.
Vibe has a height of 62.2 vs Matrix which is 61. And I think the Vibe has a higher ground clearance ?
For the security system, it's standard for the XRS but not for the Vibe GT...right ?
Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum! Anyway, not that anyone probably cares what you think, but you are wrong regardless. The most fair way to look at this is by ALG Residual values, who are the driving force in setting lease residuals each quarter.
2 year residual on a 2002 Corvette Z06 = 63%
2 year res on a 2002 Honda Accord 4dr EX = 61%
There are very few vehicles that are better than 63% (like Porsche 911, MB SLK320, BMW Z8), but all of these are in the $100k range.
The only Honda better than 63% is the S2000 (70% - WOW).
And remember that these are Average Year Round percentages, meaning that if you tried to buy a 2 year old Accord now or 6 months from now, it will probably be the same, whereas, the value of a Corvette goes up considerably at this time of the year.
Also, demand is a big factor too. You can find an Accord on every street corner, but its hard to find the exact corvette that you might be looking for (with an owner who is actually willing to sell).
turban1 : There are more standard options on the Vibe and Pontiac has more of a dealer markup than Toyota does. It's very difficult to compare exactly as some things are even available on Matrix (ex. ABS or power windows on base car).
Personaly, it is more a Wagon than a hatchback but then...
Btw, just curious. Do most of the people here consider this vehicle to be a more of a wagon than a hatchback? In other words, what board are you entering this discussion from? This will help me determine which board to start this new discussion on. Depending on how it takes off, we can eventually link it to both boards. Thanks.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
2 year residual on 2003 Vibe GT = 55%
2 year residual on 2003 Matrix XRS = 63%
Geez, does Pontiac have a bad reputation or what?
Bottom line is that I wouldn't lease a Vibe until at least the beginning of next month when the numbers adjust again. Even then it might be iffy.
Re-sale is a supply-demand game and if Pontiac's production numbers are low (which they seem to be) and demand is as high or higher than Matrix, Vibe's re-sale will be better.
Like John said, time will tell.
I do not see the prices converging. The difference in incentive levels alone will keep the Pontiac's nominal prices higher than the Toyota. Not to mention the current currency advantage Toyota has, since its Matrices are built in Canada, where the US Dollar is strong indeed!
I agree, I don't think there will be much cross shopping. The cars look very different and many people may be unaware they are even related.