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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • bushskibushski Member Posts: 15
    I recently bought a 2002 TB. I had 3 4Runners before jumping ship. I really like the TB - it is roomier, more powerful and has more "stuff" than the 4runner did.

    I don't understand how GM could make a vehicle where wind noise is such a big issue. I opened my back windows and the sound was painfully deafening!! It was incredible. Don't they own a wind tunnel? Would an 1/8 inch wind deflector been cost prohibitive? Is this the first car to ever have a back window???

    This is what gives american cars a bad name.

    But believe me I really like the truck. I just don't get it!!!!!!!!
  • puppiesonboardpuppiesonboard Member Posts: 1
    has anyone heard of a dog restraint system option on any of the new GM SUV's. I saw something on animal planet where one of the new trucks came with dog seatbelts as well as ramps that pulled out for the back.

    let me know!!!
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Yes, a local dealer was advertising Bravada's
    at $6500 off list. They even located one for me
    w/o sunroof. My only incentive was the $2002 cash back. They were $1000 under invoice. They must have wanted to move Bravada's. BTW, they consider the 5/60 warranty another $1000 incentive. So far,
    so good. No roof rack noise, but some power steering noise when I started it this morning
    at 5 below zero.

    GAM
  • garykinggaryking Member Posts: 47
    My Envoy power steering really screamed when I started it up at -10 on Fri. & Sat.
  • hayhayhayhay Member Posts: 8
    I have the stock cd player so that must explain the extensive heat. The system sounds pretty good for stock -- too bad I think my cd's are going to melt!!
  • wholiganwholigan Member Posts: 148
    Does anyonw know if Oldsmobile will be getting the extended length Bravada - like the Yukon XL? Just curious - more than anything else... Will be checking at the Auto Show this Saturday...

    Gill
    2003 Honda Odyssey EX-LRES - Midnight Blue Pearl
    2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
    2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
    2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Bushski - look into picking up a pair of ventvisor/weatherflectors or the like. I noticed the wind tunnel as well with just the rear windows down. After installing the Weatherflectors (front and rear), it's completely gone! I tried both cracking the rear windows and opening them fully (individually & as a pair). Even at highway speed, the noise is gone. You still get some residual wind up front, but it's definitely more bearable.

    Regarding build quality - Personally, I can find build quality issues with almost any vehicle, imports included. When you mass produce anything, there will be minor build issues. It kills me when people swear their "import" has better build quality, when in truth it's manufactured in the states. Yes, the parts may be foreign... but you mean to tell me that a guy building Toyota's in the US is any more careful than a guy building GM car's in the US? Most of the build issues are related to individual error... a body panel is off, glue comes undone, etc. Now, if we're talking reliability, that's a different ballpark, since foreign parts are actually foreign! Still, I can show you domestics with ultra-high mileage and foreign autos that died under 100k. When it comes down to it, it's about care, maintenence, and yes... partially a crapshoot!
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Currently there are no plans to release an extended version of the Bravada. Personally, I would like the extra torque of the V8, but don't really need the room of an XL. It will be interesting to see what kind of mileage the V8 gets versus the l6.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I agree with Tidester...no one is pinging anybody, but the item was properly called a parking brake back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond...you may call it what you wish, but it is, was, and will always be a parking brake...
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    People may have called it a parking brake as far back as the 60's, but the term emergency brake goes as far back as the 20's! In fact the auto industry themselves called it an emergency brake in most of their documentation until the mid to late 1980's when there was a lawsuit forcing the change! Don't worry, now that there have been several recalls on "Parking brakes" for not properly holding cars in place, I'm sure someone will again sue the auto manufacturers and force another name change. What will we call the device then? Personally, I don't care what the heck they call it. It's function will always be the same. As Webster's so eloquently put's it:

    Emergency Brake:
    A separate brake system in a vehicle for use in case of failure of the regular brakes and commonly used as a parking brake.
  • envoyownerenvoyowner Member Posts: 42
    I bought my Envoy 4WD SLT in December and am very pleased! I do have a few issues:

    The airbag light stayed on - this has happened twice. Start it; all the lights do their thing and then go off. However, twice the airbag light has stayed on the duration of my drive. Next time I started, it was off. The last time this happened I called OnStar and they did a check and said nothing showed up but that I should take it to the dealer - maybe it could be a short. Any thoughts on this?

    I've been following the rearview mirror/memory discussions. Originally I had my setting to lower the passenger mirror when in reverse. This worked fine and it seemed to return to its set position. However, I noticed that occassionally, upon start, the driver's mirror would do some shifting around. I turned off the mirror down setting for both and still, on occassion, the driver side mirror will adjust. {???}

    Something odd I've noticed with the driver's seat. Upon acceleration, it seems to "slip" and then click into place.

    I've been told to get a trailer hitch cover. What's the best? Where?

    Thanks and keep up the great discussions!
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    However you put it, no one was pinging anyone else! :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    Double check the power steering pump reservoir. Mine did it after a month or two & I immediately drove it to the dealership - it's only 2 miles from my house. They checked it out & re-filled it at the time. I scheduled it for a check the two days later. When they investigated the issue, they wound up replacing the steering assembly. I don't know if this was a frequent service issue. I never heard any recalls on it. It appeared that the steering assembly leaked which slowly drain the fluid in the pump. The pump was not damaged, maybe due to my immediate action with the dealer & re-filling.
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    I have read all of the posts about the sticking fan clutch. I've had this happen on my TB. What everyone needs to understand how the viscous fan clutch works.

    The device is nothing more than a balanced housing on a shaft with little more than two clutch disks immersed in a lubricant. Normally the clutch disks don't connect and thus the disks mostly free spin inside the lubricant. The fan blades, attached to one end of the shaft, will rotate some, but not much. When the engine gets very hot, the clutch disks expand and connect to each other, much like the clutch in the transmission, causing the fan to turn with the engine. It does rob the engine of power, but the fan also pulls cool air through the radiator, aiding in engine cooling. This typically happens during heavy idling in traffic, and the fan will return to normal after several seconds of increased engine RPMs.

    The problem most people have experienced is when the engine is very cold, like on a 10-degree morning. The problem here is that the lubricant inside gets thick when it is cold. The viscous clutch has not malfunctioned in most cases, it's just that the viscous clutch hasn't warmed up enough for the lubricant to thin out. What is happening inside is the clutch disks aren't turning in the lubricant, but turning with the lubricant. You can test this by turning the fan by hand (with the engine off of course) when the engine is warm, and again when it is cold. You'll notice that the fan is more stiff and difficult to turn when it is cold.

    The solution here is to allow the car to run a moment before throwing it in gear. I usually wait for the engine speed to come down below 1000 rpms after initial start up before putting it in gear (about a 20-second wait on a cold morning).

    Now, if the fan engages at highway speed, and the engine temperature is normal, then there may be a viscous fan clutch malfunction. However, if you're in the mountains and pulling a long hill, the engine may be running hotter than normal. In that case, the viscous clutch is doing its job.

    Of course, with the fan turning, and placing the engine under a load, the transmission will shift differently (usually later as it would if you were towing a trailer).
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Thanks for the info. I agree that this is nothing to worry about when starting on a cold morning. For me, it goes away quickly and is not an issue in that case.

    However, when it comes on in the mountains, that's a different story. Granted I'm going uphill a lot, but it's by no means extreme driving. The last time this happened, the temp gauge showed below 210. It normally runs at just above that.

    It puzzles me, but isn't it possible that it's just either a poor quality fan clutch or they designed it such that is comes on at too low a temperature? Maybe they put those plates a little too close together.

    I have another theory though for my problem. I think it might be caused by the transmission fluid getting hot due to not being in overdrive for much of the time going up the mountains. This thing's got a separate transmission cooler, right? I think that could cause more hot air to come through the radiator, but the temp gauge wouldn't show this. Hmmm.
  • kkakkokkakko Member Posts: 9
    Does someone know where is the exact location of the microphone?

    I read on previous posts that the device located close to my left ear is not the microphone but it is a temperature sensor.
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    I just dropped my TB off to get my axle seal squeals serviced and while there I asked about lube points. One mechanic & two server technicians both confirmed that the TB has the permaseal chassis - no lube points under the vehicle anywhere. If anyone else finds anything different, please post your findings!

    Thanks
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    I read in the manual (OnStar or TB Owners, don't recall which) the microphone is located in the mirror. Stated, that the driver should speak in a normal voice and if a passenger speaks, should direct their voice to the rear view mirror.

    From prior postings, the grill on the support column is a internal temperature sensor.
  • jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    Thanks for the info on the new TB's. I plan to test drive one soon and when I do, I will post back with my .02 cents...

    Jim
  • zecgeotzzecgeotz Member Posts: 22
    To: ARCHDUKERIZZO

    When are you going to post your pictures. Maybe it took you longer to put them on. Seeing your pictures shouldl convince me toI order them.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I accept the definition...but, I promise there was no intent to ping anybody, just clarify a point with the "knowledge" that I believed I possessed...
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    Someone got all excited about this and claimed it is just another indication of faulty US design. Well, before I bought my Envoy, I looked at the Toyota Highlander and studied these boards on that vehicle. It turns out there were a lot of folks complaining about the very same issue with the Highlander. I conclude it has to do with the general design of an SUV with a large open volume behind the rear window. In any event, it doesn't seem like a big problem to me.
  • noller2gnoller2g Member Posts: 60
    You may have a mechanical fan clutch, but he one in my Bravada is electronically controlled by the ECM.

    My problem was the fan running all the time, no matter what the engine or ambient temp was outside.

    I took it in and they applied a software upgrade and my problem away.

    Wichita Greg
  • bushskibushski Member Posts: 15
    I just purchased a set of Autoshade ventvisors and it looks like part of them attach to the paint around the door. Is this the normal installation? I have the right part number 94733.
  • archdukerizzoarchdukerizzo Member Posts: 35
    I'll have them up tomorrow night.
    I didn't get them on till late sunday night and I haven't had a chance to snap the pics yet.

    I will tomorrow though, but my Bravada is dirty so don't mind the dust on it! :)
  • paulpropaulpro Member Posts: 56
    I've seen all the comments on poor mileage and I guess I'm part of the club. Moving from a 98 Jimmy that got 23 on highway, my new Envoy will only get 17 on highway. Same highways, same driver habits.

    The Jimmy sticker said 22max, I got 23. The Envoy sticker said 21. I'd be happy with that

    Has anyone taken their triplet in and had the mileage improve or is it just a known problem that GM can't (won't) do anything about.

    Thanks

    Paul P
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    Sorry, just went out and look under the hood of my Barvada and it has the viscous fan clutch. Not a electric fan is sight. Hard to believe a software patch could make the fan stop spinning? I have had 4 GM SUV's in a row, they all had the viscous fan clutch.

    Allen
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    Let see you are talking about a truck that weights about 500 or 600 pounds more, has 80 more horsepower and bigger frontal area. I had a 2000 Blazer and only got 17 or 18 mpg same driving. So 17 mpg sound good to me :)

    Allen
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    I've read on the Web several reports of engine failure on TB's and Envoys usually between 3,000-4,000 miles, requiring engine replacement under the warranty. The posters have said it was due to split cylinder sleeve #5 in most of the cases, sometimes #1. Any of you have any idea how common this is, or is it just a few isolated cases out of the thousands of units sold? By the way, does anyone know approx. how many TB's and Envoys have been sold to date? i.e., how well are they selling? Thanks.
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    Let see you are talking about a truck that weights about 500 or 600 pounds more, has 80 more horsepower and bigger frontal area. I had a 2000 Blazer and only got 17 or 18 mpg same driving. So 17 mpg sound good to me :)

    Allen
  • giddens_johngiddens_john Member Posts: 77
    The installation sounds about right, the only ventvisors I'm aware of that attach to the window channel are WeatherFlectors from http://www.macneil.com/main.asp

    I had some bad experiences with the one's that go into the window channel though so I'm going to try the GM ventvisors this time around. On my previous vehicle a 1998 Explorer, I got some WeatherFlectors installed by the dealer, and in the four years I owned the Explorer, various windows miss tracked and would get stuck on the ventvisors. Since it was purchased through the dealership they had to fix it every time, but I can only imagine how much it would have cost out of pocket to fix if I hadn't got the ventvisors through the dealership.
  • alabamamaddogalabamamaddog Member Posts: 4
    The OnStar microphone is a standard hands-free cellular microphone. It's black, about 2 inches square, 3/4 inch high.

    On my 2002 Envoy it's located right BEHIND the rear view mirror, where the headliner meets the windshield.
  • couimetcouimet Member Posts: 130
    General motors will offer a V-8 engine option for its Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT and GMC Envoy XL sport-utility vehicles in 2003 ...

    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/march/20020305_dai_gm.xml
  • noller2gnoller2g Member Posts: 60
    Not electric fan. Electronically controlled.

    WichitaGreg
  • jadavisncjadavisnc Member Posts: 8
    You may want to avoid ordering the hood deflector from gmpartsdirect, specifically for the Bravada. I ordered mine months ago and after receiving two so far, both have had problems. The first one had grooves melted in the front center and the second one was molded wrong to the point that the center rubbed against the hood and the underside didn't come close to allowing the tape to attach. They have agreed to try again but only if 1 of the 2 in stock are any different from the one I returned. They were more concerned about losing $20 on the deal than satisfying me as the customer - and to think I was about to spend well over $400 on other accessories (boards/mud guards).
    Looks like the MacNeil shield is the best I have seen to date. "You get what you pay for".
  • wholiganwholigan Member Posts: 148
    "I've read on the Web several reports of engine failure on TB's and Envoys..."

    Just wondering... I have been following this forum for about 1000 posts and your's is the first post I have seen regarding engine failure.

    Please direct us to this information. This could REALLY affect my buying decision...

    Thanks!

    Pat
    2003 Honda Odyssey EX-LRES - Midnight Blue Pearl
    2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
    2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
    2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    I think it's a hoax... I saw the same message regarding sleeve #5 on MSN Carpoint reviews before I bought my Bravada. I have also been all the way through the messages on this forum and have seen maybe one engine problem the entire time. Some complained of ticking noises, but no engine failures that I recall. Time will tell, but I'm thinking the aluminum l6 is going to be one of GM's most reliabile engines!
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    No worries guys! "Ping" was probably the wrong word. I just wanted to point out that you'll still find a lot of people calling it an Emergency Brake, despite the auto industries forced reluctance to use the term. After dealing with my wife for a couple of years now, you could call it a "thingamajig" and as long as I know what you're referring to, it makes no difference to me!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I grew up calling it an "emergency brake". Maybe that's why I never use it when I park.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    You'll remember to use it the next time you park on an incline and can't get your car out of park =) Otherwise, I'm guilty as well. If there isn't an incline/decline I rarely use it. One thing I will concede is that you are far less likely to use it as an emergency brake today, since they mandated a multiple piston master cylinder with separate brake circuits that prevents all of the fluid from draining in the event of a leak.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Actually I lied. When I lived in snow country I used the hand brake in my Tercel all the time to dynamically "parallel park".

    I do have a sloping driveway now, so I have been learning to use my "foot" brake more (I much prefer the "hand" brake).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • mdeymdey Member Posts: 90
    I am having trouble understanding the whole gas mileage dilemma. My low mileage for a tank was 17.9; my high was 20.9, calculated the old-fashioned way. I have a TB LS with no accessories yet and 4,800 miles.

    I live in Columbia, SC, so it is a bit warmer here, but the high was on a recent trip to Detroit, 20-degree weather on the Ohio Turnpike. I use 87 oct.

    Evaluate your driving habits. I get 40k miles out of a set of brakes, at least that out of a set of tires. If you don't, it may be that you have a lead foot. If you're sure its not that you love the sound of open-throttle acceleration, consider having a tailpipe test done on the car. If it really is using too much fuel, and the problem is mechanical, it will probably fail the test. Take the test results to the dealer and they will be forced to find a fix.
  • newtbnewtb Member Posts: 5
    Personally, when I started my SUV search last July, I wouldn't look at Chevy/Ford SUVs because of the 'perceived' build quality issues. With this is mind, I became quickly attached to the Pathfinder. I believe it's the best built (along with 4Runners) MidSize SUV. I also liked the price/value I was getting from the dealer.

    I was set to purchase the Pathfinder but thought I owed it to my brother (works at Chevy Dealer) to at least look at their new Trailblazers. To make a long story short, I fell in love with the TB. I still believe the Pathfinder overall is built better and handles better, but I love the total package (looks/feel/engine/options)of the Trailblazer.

    I have just over 6,000 miles on my TB and have had No Major problems at all. The only issue I've had is the paint chip problem on the tailgate.

    I never looked at the Explorer, but I don't think you can do wrong with a TrailBlazer or Pathfinder. Hope my 2 cents helps.
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    johntr: Interesting... I just pulled this from the Bravada Manual:

    - Lubricate chassis components with each engine oil and filter change.

    Are all of the U-Joints for Autotrac sealed? I'm guessing that has to be the difference. Either way, it lets me know that the only servicable points will be for the Smarttrak system. They're really easy to get to as well, so it shouldn't be a problem.
  • allenrallenr Member Posts: 89
    I don't see any way to control the fan by the computer. It's totally a mechanical fan clutch?

    Allen
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Hey Gang,

    Awhile back, there was a big discussion on this board about utilizing the dual zone climate control system for the triplets. I can recall several individuals stating that once you use the passenger knob to change the temp, you could not return back to the driver's side knob (to control both sides) without having to restart the vehicle?

    Well.. I was a little dumbfounded with that idea myself. I really did not like the fact that you would loose primary control over the HVAC if you utilized the passenger control.. so I read the manual and couldn't find any information with instructions on how to get the HVAC unit to return back to its' "One Knob" operation without having to restart the vehicle. Today I played with the unit a little more and found out that once someone uses the passenger knob, you CAN regain primary control through the driver's side knob by simply PRESSING AND HOLDING the AUTO button until the display shows the temp and the words "driver" and "passenger."

    Maybe someone else posted a solution to this concern, but I just wanted to let everyone know this so that they could try it on their triplet! This method surely beats having to restart the vehicle whenever you want it to return to a "one-knob" operation!

    Good Luck!!

    Dennis D.

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    The reports I saw of engine failure were mainly on the following SUV forum:

    http://forums.vmag.com/suvenvoy0199/


    There is a current thread, then scroll down to two other threads in February.


    I tend to think it's more isolated cases, but that's what I'm trying to find out. You would think that out of 100,000 engines (or whatever figure they are up to) that there will be some tangible failure rate for any make/model car/truck. I sure hope it's isolated anyway; I have a new pewter Envoy scheduled for arrival any day! If it were common, I think there would be a lot more postings.

  • cwhawkcwhawk Member Posts: 38
    Mirrors - My TB has just started the mirror problem - they lose their set positions. The TB is 3 months old and just started. Who has had a successful fix and what was it?

    MILEAGE - Re # 4219 mdey - I too live in Columbia, SC. My TB gets 14.5 mpg on my 15 mile trip to/from work at 50 mph. My 97 Blazer got 19.5 on the same route. Has anyone had a dealer do anything to improve mileage? If the rating is 16/22, I expected about 18 with the type driving I do. Any posts that had a FIX would be appreciated.
  • richardcoulsonrichardcoulson Member Posts: 88
    mdey, what was your average speed when you got 20.9 mpg? Did you have a tail wind?
    thanks.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    pepper 50, wholigan, cmack 4: I don't know if the other posts regarding engine failures are true or not, but mine was true. at 2166 miles the engine started making a faint clicking sound, a short time later (several miles), without any warning or other indication, the engine coughed, sputtered and stopped. it would re-start but quickly die out. The reduced engine power light and service engine soon lights both came on. The engine had to be replaced. The dealer told me a cylinder sleeve had come loose. I wasn't too happy with the situation and with G M refusing me a new truck. Soon after the replacement, I purchased a 5yr 70 k mile warranty from G M. The new motot has been faultless for 4 k miles since.
    To Allen R: your air cond. compressor has an electrically controlled clutch. The cooling fan could have a similar clutch and it could be computer controlled. I don't know if it is electrically controlled, but it can be.
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