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Comments
As for the AWD, I've read what Bob said. I wanted the auto WRX but then decided that I'd have more fun with manual. But now I'm considering that if this AWD difference is true, then I may consider getting an auto with the WRX. What exactly does VTD do and how is it an improvement?
Plus, does anyone know which car would more likely have a longer lasting engine/transmission between manual and automatic? Thanks.
riley
-ashu
Bob
Theoretically, this should translate into a real world difference, but very few people have had the opportunity to drive an auto and manual at the limit, back-to-back.
Ken
The AWD employed by the Manual and the Auto-WRX are completely different, hardware-wise and also the way they react to different conditions.
Basically, the VTD-AWD of the Auto-WRX (Not available in any other Subaru except the VDC-Outback) has a Torque-sensing Planetary gear center differential, which works along with a heavy duty electro-mechanical 6-plate clutch-pack, to do its rapid power/torque distribution front/rear and rear/front, depending on conditions. When accelerating, 85% of the power is on the rear wheels. In non-slip conditions, it splits torque 45% to the front and 55% to the rear. In Japan, they have a 35% front to 65% rear split in the twin-turbo Legacy, which is achieved by varying the pitch of the torque-sensing/biasing planetary gear center differential. This is a very very sophisticated AWD system and is very similar to the AWD employed by the Quattro system present in the Audi A8/S8 and other V8-equipped Audis (different from the Quattro present in the A4 and that present in the Audi TT, which are not as good and are heavy).
The VTD-AWD system, is also conceptually similar to the AWD present in the World Rally conquering race-cars, except that it is in a much lighter-duty form.
The Manual-WRX is equipped with a Viscous-coupling AWD, which splits power 50/50 to the front/rear wheels. This system is fairly simple and is also present in all manual-equipped Subarus.
Later...AH
The Acura is a comfortable and fast highway cruiser but does not have the raw athleticism of the WRX. Not even close. The TL is a fairly decent handler for a large FWD vehicle, especially since it is equipped with Double-wishbone suspensions on all 4 ends. But it does not even remotely approach the WRX in its handling, which, to me is intoxicating. Also, even though both cars are pretty fast, the turbo-rush of the WRX is something unique and I prefer that to the linear and smooth power delivery of the Acura.
Hope this helps.
Later...AH
Later...AH
And the FULL AWD system on the MT WRX is different from MT impreza because it has a limited slip differental that the MT impreza lacks (the AT has the LSD as well). The only other MT Subaru that has the LSD is the Forrester S.
The electro-mechanical center differential present in the Rally cars are better adaptable to the Automatics than the manual cars, due to which it appears in the Auto-equipped WRX and also the VDC-Outback (which costs thousands of dollars more than its H6-counterpart, the LL Bean).
Maybe if Subaru spent enough engineering effort, they may be able to make a workable adaptation of it for the Manual-equipped cars. Till date, they have not done it, except for a version of it in one of the STi models(RA Type-R ??), which are manufactured in extremely small numbers and needs a race-professional to effectively drive.
Later...AH
Later...AH
Basically, the Auto-trans employed by Subaru is an "adaptive Automatic transmission". This essentially means that when you start driving the car, the transmission will adapt to your shifing style. If you shift aggressively for a while, the trans will do the same automatically and will not up-shift till redline in every gear. If you drive like a grandma, the car will do the same after a while. But the good thing is that it can be re-trained to a different mode, even if it has adapted to a certain pattern. It just takes a week of driving to re-train the transmission to the new shifting style.
This is the reason why driving a "Green" Auto-WRX at the dealership, during a test-drive, will not give a true picture of how the car will drive after you have driven with it for a while.
Another little known fact is that the Auto-WRX is setup with stiffer springs than the Manual-WRX, which arguably should result in sharper handling.
Later...AH
Yeah, I don't know what I was smoking before when i said that only the Forrester S has one. I made a post awhile back that had all the models and their various AWD systems. I just forgot.
Anyway, he was on the track the same time we were. We followed him for a few laps at about the same speed. Even my son was impressed as to how the WRX flew through the course. It gave me a new respect for the capabilities of the car; it was flying through the twisties and straghtaways. I talked to the driver afterward; he was almost giddy with excitement.
Now my son is bugging me to take a driving school and really learn to handle the car. I probably won't at my age, but I am now getting more of an appreciation for a lot of the comments on this board about the performance.
Mike
I outfitted it with Nokian NRW snow tires two weeks after taking delivery. (would have done it sooner, but they had to be ordered.) This proved to be an unbeatable combination... Japanese AWD technology coupled with Finnish tire expertise.
We didn't have all that many huge snow dumps, but the car did go through a few 5-10 inch storms with slush and ice underneath. It seemed to have a death grip on the pavement. Very difficult to make it slip even when I tried.
I did get one snowy day with the stock Bridgstones before the Nokians arrived, and there was a huge difference. I had to be pretty careful on the gas, or they were easily spinning.
With spring here, the Nokians are safely tucked away in the garage, waiting for their turn next fall.
BTW, I'm up to about 4500 miles and have been consistently getting 25 - 27 mpg. This is with what I would consider moderate use of the turbo.
I love the car. It's more fun than any old guy ought to have.
My only complaint is that I often reach for the wrong lever between cruise control cancel and windshield wiper mist. They are too close to each other and the motions seem too similar. I haven't yet been able to train my right hand to go to the proper location every time. This just gives me another excuse to drive and practice more!
Thanks
I'd expect that delivery of '03's will start in late August to September too.
Jim
-mike
-mike
If a person wants to make the WRX a drag-racing kind of vehicle, then he is doing a mighty disservice to the car and also fooling himself.
JMHO.
Later...AH
New Mexico. I've heard they are a good all
around "all season" tire and was just going
to leave them on all year. Why did you remove
them and what did you replace them with? Did
you go for a second set of wheels?
SKIREX
Bob
Later...AH
-mike
I like the convenience of being able to switch the wheel+tire combination at my own schedule in my driveway, rather than sitting around at a tire place. This also allows me to rotate the tires every time they go on... I just mark them for their next position and I'm all set in 6 months.
Around here, most places get about $50 for a switchoever, so that's $100 per year spring & fall. If the Nokians last 4 years, I'm even. If not, I'll know better next time.
My summer tires are the stock Bridgestone RE92's that came with the car. I change seasonally because I've been told that these super snow tires like the Nokians have soft compound that will not last on warm, dry pavement. Here in Utah, it's often approaching 100F in the summer, so I guess that qualifies. Now that I'm able to compare, the RE92's are noticeably quieter and smoother on dry roads than the NRWs. They also allow me to corner harder on freeway on-ramps, which just adds to the fun.
Good luck with your New Mexico driving. I hope you do better next winter as far as snowfall.
Any advice would be appreciated...
Thanks,
Rich
-mike
-Brian
-mike
I'm planning to purchase a WRX within the next 2-4 months. I just wanted to ask a few questions to those of you that own WRXs.
1. How much did you put down for your WRX? and how much are your monthly payments?
I know this depends on everyone's financial situation, but I'd like to get an idea of what I'll be paying.
2. What other costs/fees can be negotiated at the time of purchase? Which should I factor in when haggling for a price?
Thanks in advance. I'll save my other questions for later.
Subaru dropped the ball on this by making it a DIO not a PIO or Factory Option. This screws up a lot of stuff like "stock" class racing, and magazines don't test em with 17" rims cause they aren't a true option. It's the equivilent of you going to the local tireshop on your way home from the showroom and picking up a new set of rims and tires.
-mike
Shiftronic (that's what Subaru calls it) would probably not change 0-60 times much for the auto, but it would help in giving you more control to pick the right gear for every scenario.
Example: you can down shift before an off-ramp, or just before a hill or curve.
-juice
Bob
http://www.i-club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=20
Some threads with good pics are "Lollicup meet pictures" and "Ok, got the pics to work." I tried posting the thread, but edmunds wont let me post words over 115 characters...
Those 17" wheels that were discussed earlier are good looking, and I believe they're from JDM Legacy B4s, and they're lightweight, in Subaru OEM tradition. They're around $1300 for the set, without tires. Though they're nice OEM wheels, for that price, I'd get something similar in the aftermarket. The only problem is that Subaru OEM wheels seem well made and relatively lightweight, a combination that's hard to do in the aftermarket too cheaply. Some Rota wheels sell for around $600/set on the i-club, but I don't know how strong and durable they'll be in the long-run. They're 17in too, and around 17lbs ea.
I test drove the wrx sedan on friday on colorado Hwy 24(as windy as it gets). It started as a real pleasing experience where i could feel all that has been written, spoken abt the car( Traction, brakes, power, all wheel, seats comfort).
However one situation needs more explanation. I was driving downhill. I was probably at 65mph on the 45mph car. I was coming into a corner. I felt i was slighly fast so i braked lightly. The wrx tailfished. I was spinning 30-degrees in both direction atleast twice bfore the car straigtened.
trust me!! I was very close to a uncontrollable spin. The whole thing lasted, i believe abt 5-8 sec. The car almst felt like a wiperblade rotating on the windshield. Both me, dealer and the car were unhurt.
It's a two lane highway. I had a concrete barriar to my left and huge truck in the slower lane which was another reason for me to brake and slow down into the corner. I came in close promimity to both of them.
There was no snow, sleet, water, oil or anything on the road. It was a nice sunny day.
I am not blaming the car outrightly. I was 20miles atleast above speed limit and i did brake , although lightly coming into the corner.
But i believe that the wrx reacted far too much.
Any comments, similar experiences.
I was shaken out friday. Plan to test drive it once more to be fair to myself and wrx.
Thanks
patilpan