Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Gateway Raceway Park in St. Louis, Missouri will be the site of the event. The dates are July 12-15, 2001. I'm still getting hotel information and dollar numbers for the various activities, so until I get all that I can't say what the cost will be.
The road course is 1.67 miles long. We anticipate having a SCCA High-Performance Driving School as part of the events for all those who are interested. This will be a family-friendly event. Goal is to have 100 LS owners in attendance. More would make it oh so sweeter.
FYI. Drive time: Saint Louis is 13 hours from NJ, two days from Southern California.
Brian
I'd like to schedule a chat with the members to kind of brainstorm the events for next week. Email me and let me know if a weeknight or weekend is better for this.
P.S. I was just reminded, for those of us who like beer, that Saint Louis is the home of Anheiser-Busch, just in case you needed any extra convincing
I don't know which I would have preferred: freezing in Alaska or being warm but occasionally shot at in Beirut. On the other hand I did get to play tourist in Israel and Italy while on leave. I know I prefer them to Alaska, but then I'm originally from Tarpon Springs, Florida so cold weather is definitely not for me.
Jim
It's a Darwin thing. Those who don't believe in this stuff won't live through too many generations. . .but my point is NOT that air bags are necessarily a good thing. My point is that the bag is not offered as an option to the (relatively) dirt cheap belts and harnesses that probably work better, if used. The bag is required, but strangely enough it's emphasized over and over that it's "supplemental" -- to be used in conjunction with a real restraint system. That would be the belts.
FWIW, when I owned a '65 MGB, I used a four-point racing harness that I moved on through two subsequent vehicles that were driven fairly hard, none of which had air bags.
Hector
They (Central Florida Lincoln Mercury) have a neat web based application. If you give them your e-mail, you get a message directing you to the service page. There you can check status on your car by VIN, license plate, or service invoice number, and even check the service history of your car. Each concern is listed and tracked, and the result is there. In case you don't like how they handled a problem you can call and argue with the service boss about it rather than finding out when you pick the car up. When the car is finished the page says STATUS: Complete on the top line of the page. Very cool.
Spoke to a manager there who hadn't heard about the LLSOC, and gave him the URL. He seemed interested to investigate, so maybe he'll want to cross link to and from their web site to LLSOC? Would like to get some of these dealers, especially that do well on sales and service, like this one, to work with the club. Hope something happens.
No problems to report. I only remember a hesitation in shifting during the first week. It took me a while to get used to the brakes but now that I "needed them" a couple of time I have learned to trust them. The car really makes you feel in full control. This car will close a gap in a hurry. It might not be the fastest 0 to 60 but it will get up to 80 from 30 in a flash. I haven't dared take it above 80 yet, but that's coming.
The automatic climate control works great. I haven't had a need for the cooling yet but the heating and defrosting work well. I haven't noticed any defects in workmanship and the car feels solid. I'll be taking the car in for service in a few days. Besides the free maintenance from Lincoln for the first 36k miles the dealer is giving me the first one free. I'm using that to get the oil and filter changed now. I'm hoping they can help me remove the pencil mark from my center console. That's the only thing I have to complain about. All and all, I would have to say that for the price you can't beat the LS. I'm sure I can buy a faster car that handles all kinds of roads better than the LS. I just don't think I can buy it for less that $40k.
I'm looking forward to my first long trip. We are going to Maine in June. It should be a great drive. After that I'm hoping to make the trip to LS Mania and meet some of the founding members.
Hector
Lots of things to do there for both the LS owners and the folks who aren't that interested in the track events.
And for those that enjoy engineering stuff, the Arch is a must see. The natives used to call it the Giant Coat Hanger, but it is a marvel of modern engineering. You especially value it when you ride up in the "eggs" elevators and stand at the top looking underneath you and seeing nothing there! Not something to do after you've visited the brewery and gotten free samples
Brian
IMHO from what I've seen and heard, the safety zealots have convinced the "average man/woman" on the street that all of the wonderful equipment now installed on the new cars is so-o-o good, that it will save them from themselves. In other words, drive as recklessly as you will, the ABS will stop you in the nick of time, or the stability control will get you around "it", or in the worst case, the air bag will save you when you hit "it".
Therefore, a lot of people drive like they just don't care, under the false assumption that the car will bail them out. I realize that you probably can't document this, but just look around at how people drive today. In post #1098, billincal1 describes how the ABS helped him out, but the "rice rocket" driver was the root cause of Bill's problem. Here in western New York, people still drive 50-55 MPH in snow storms. Ask them if they think it's dangerous? No way, they'll say, I've got ABS !!!
Am now putting Nomex and goggles back on.......
Now all I have to do is replace the speakers.
Happy LSing
A.D. Hinkle
Thanks,
Brian
Michael
Under real-world crisis conditions when some moron suddenly turns left into your path, or suddenly accelerates into your path from a side street, you are usually dealing with a total surprise. Under those conditions your reactions are very unlikely to be "skillfully modulated".
First, you have to very quickly overcome your brain's disblief that someone could be so stupid as to do what they are doing. Even before your brain is past this denial, your foot will be mashing the brake and your hands spinning the steering wheel away from the intruding vehicle. You won't have made any sort of refined judgement about whether the road surface is wet or covered with sand or leaves.
Without ABS you will have a VERY HIGH probability of locking the wheels, reducing the stopping force (the sliding coefficient of friction is less than the non-slipping coefficient of friction) and most of your ability to steer the vehicle. WITH ABS, you will still be able to steer your vehicle, and the stopping force will still be better than when the tires are sliding.
As a motorcyclist, I am particularly sensitive to the benefits of ABS, because a motorcycle is much more sensitive to road surface conditions than four wheel vehicles are. I learned to modulate the brakes (especially the front brake) habitually according to the road conditions, but I'll tell you that under panic stop conditions, even a highly experienced motorcyclist data channels can overload and not be able to "modulate" optimally.
About three years ago, when a little old lady patiently waited in the left turn lane until I was entering the intersection at 55 MPH and suddenly decided "Oh, I guess I'll turn left now!" I didn't have time to "modulate" anything! My brain hadn't even accepted the ugly truth yet, but my right hand was clamped with full strength on the front brake lever and my right foot was hard down on the rear brake pedal. I never would have believed how quickly that BMW could stop until I had that panic stop. I can still hardly believe I actually missed hitting that car!
Am I an ABS advocate? You betcha baby!
As to ABS, yes, I know how to modulate the braking, but again, that is in ideal circumstances and I don't have emergency stops in ideal circumstances. I would rather have the ABS which I expect would work better than I would most of the time.
I understand that some people THINK they would out perform most mechanical devices. My experience is that they would not. Most people are really marginal drivers and even if some of us could outperform the ABS or the handling control, we would probably be wiped out by the idiot in the next lane careening into us or spinning into us as I did years ago. I was just lucky that I spun between cars and trucks through pure luck, not skill.
We drove between Chicano to northern Wisconsin in a 1955 Imperial at 65 m.p.h with NO safety equipment. My younger brother rode on the arm rest so he could see out the windshield, for crying out loud.
The 1963 Plymouth was no better. There were five kids, the dog, and dad driving, but still no safety devices in the car. If it had seat belts, they were deeply hidden.
These where the days of two lane highways, four wheel drum brakes, bias ply tires, archaic body and frame structures. The speed limit was 65 during the day, but you wouldn't get a ticket unless you were doing 80.
I agree with most of the safety features included with vehicles now. I also know that ABS took so long to reach our shores due to worries about litigation if they didn't work. Unfortuneatly, we are a litigious society, so American Manufactures must take a wait and see approach.
Now, in WI, we have a new dependancy upon radar and vascar. We are ticketed for 7 over the limit in our safer vehicles, but driving stupidity is not found from the median or overpass, where the Troopers await the speeders.
I appreciate the safer vehicles. I like the A.B.S, disagree with air bags, but I'm happy that they are there. I wish our society would take credit for their own mistakes and not have to place the blame elsewhere. I also wish that Wisconson didn't invest in the Federally Mandated Speed Limit so much to make it their meal ticket.
The bottom line, is that there is none. We all have our preferences. We have a Republican asking for more saftey features and we have Democrates asking for lazze-faire. To each their own, but as Phil said on "Hill Street Blues," "Let's be safe out there."
So off to the body shop I went, and since they are going to get out the black paint anyway...
I am wondering have seen a few picutures, Is their a aftermarket bumper skin that has exhaust pipe tips cut outs?
If I have to pay for it I would like to have ones that would look good w/ some performance exhaust. I saw this mod on the Borla LS car @ www.borla.com.
Any Suggestions??
So off to the body shop I went, and since they are going to get out the black paint anyway...
I am wondering have seen a few picutures, Is their a aftermarket bumper skin that has exhaust pipe tips cut outs?
If I have to pay for it I would like to have ones that would look good w/ some performance exhaust. I saw this mod on the Borla LS car @ www.borla.com.
Any Suggestions??
I think that most of us would agree that we want to protect ourselves from injury but we don't all agree as to what we need in our vehicles to protect ourselves. I could argue that air bags are more dangerous and AS makes us over confident or I could argue that they save lives. This is not what the real argument should be. The real argument is about the government taking away our choice in the matter.
I believe that I need to wear a seat belt when I'm in a car. I also believe that the Government is invading on my personal freedoms when a law is created that forces me to wear a seat belt/have air bags/live life in a bubble/stay safe.
The bottom line is that we should have the option of taking advantage of technology that will make our lives safer. We should not be forced to pay for or use technology just because some government agency thinks they need to decide what is best for us poor ignorant souls.
Brian
Packv12: I am a proud member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy and I think you have Democrats and Republicans reversed. It is the Dems who wish to rule over the masses while we Republicans want Government to not intrude upon our lives.
I am considering purchasing the Wiring Diagram manual from Helm ( http://www.helminc.com ) for $60 to get this info. Does anyone have this manual? Any comments?
The different view is about the cost to society for people who shun even basic safety devices like motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Lack of these devices most definitely cause injuries and deaths that could be avoided by wearing them. Who pays for this? Insurance companies and hospitals. Insurance premiums go up. Taxes go up. Everyone pays for it. THAT is the problem I have with people who say it is their right whether they risk injury or death by not using basic safety devices. Your right to risk yourself is ok until it impacts the rest of us.
I am also passionate about the LS & hope we can regain focus on it.
I only ask that you remember your views should, God forbid, you ever end up in an accident where your injuries may have been mitigated by such a safety device. There are a lot of personal injury/product liability attorneys who would jump at the chance to rip into a car manufacturer's deep pockets for not including a safety device offering great safety value at little monetary cost.
Make sure you tell your attorney not to pursue such a claim, as it would violate your beliefs that you should be able to choose your own safety devices.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I think the point is valid.
RE: cupholders. I just got off the phone with my parts department. He will sell the 2001 console top to anyone that wants one for $136 + applicable tax. They are:
Witt Lincoln/Mercury, Phone 760-233-3333. I don't think that they have an 800 number.
So far, only found one slight problem with the finish - looks like a couple of small chips on the paint on the top of the front bumper where it meets the side quarter panel. Only noticed because I was trying to inspect with a magnifying glass.
Haven't had a chance to really go over the whole thing, having too good of a time!
Thanks for all the great info here.
Jaime
Even though you don't plan to drive your LS during wet weather, my experience is that their main benefit is to keep the disk brake dust and general sand and dust from the road off the side of the car behind the wheels (especially the rear wheels).
If you have the Sport package, the wider tires stick out more than standard tires, and lots of junk collects along the bottom of the rear fender panel and somewhat behind the front wheels too. The splash guards reduce this by about 75%, and I think it is worth it. Besides, they don't look bad on the car, IMHO.
I live out here in the "desert Southwest" where we hardly ever see rain, but we sure do see dust. Also, the Sport disk brakes are pretty dirty. The splash guards actually help more in the dry weather than they do in the wet.
Whatever changes there are, I like to think we had some influence. About a year ago we all had opportunity to give Jim Rogers our wish list.
Tom...
Please send me the details of the flooding concerns you've had. I will have someone from Powertrain speak to you directly (Please include your phone #, servicing dealer, etc...).
My e-mail is rcupka@ford.com
Thank You
Dick
I just read Edmunds long-term road test on the 3 series. I don't get it. While I have nothing against the car, I do have a problem with what I feel is Edmunds biased reporting in favor of the BMW. Especially when you compare their flowery review against their typical critical review of the LS(Feb. long-term update was just posted).
Examples:
"This one example of the several ergonomic flaws in the car's secondary controls is kind of a pain in the neck, but you get used to it after a time," noted Cook.
"Mr. Reed relates: "What happens when a middle-aged guy, with middle-aged driving habits, is given the keys to a BMW 328i with a five-speed stick? Have you ever seen the old Disney cartoon about how mild-mannered Mr. Walker becomes the maniacal Mr. Wheeler when he gets into a car? Let's just say that a whole different personality seemed to be tapped by the performance and handling of this German bombshell. I had been in the car for only a few minutes when I found myself next to another BMW on an entrance ramp to the freeway. Normally, I would have backed off and let him merge. But now I was no longer Mr. Walker. I became Mr. Wheeler. I put my foot down. I won the short race and was rewarded with open road in front of the car's hood instead of the back end of someone else's car."
"But surprisingly, I think I actually had the seat up too high, because the rearview mirror sometimes blocked my view. I got over this inconvenience quickly, given the panoramic view out the rear window that the high seating position afforded me. I like the idea of leatherette upholstery — it's probably no stickier than leather in the summer and I don't have to cope with the guilt of knowing that cows gave up their skins for the sake of a fossil fuel-burning car with a finite existence."
"I wish this 328i had an auto-dimming rearview mirror, given its price (I see that you can get one for the 330i if you option it with the premium package) — the long-term Lincoln LS seems to have come standard with one. This feature reduces fatigue and lifts spirits during commutes, especially with so many SUVs on the road."
"There still seems to be a few of the lingering minor problems that I've noticed in the past. The mysterious rattle in the back is still there and the windows still creak when you roll them up. Even with these small problems, this car is still as much fun to drive as it was when new."
Now on the LS review what did we get?
Let's see... Oh Yeah, the rear view mirror isn't square enough. The woodgrain trim is plastic (but hey, we do have leather upholstery, not vinyl) and we do have a CD player included and not an option. And our test car didn't creak and we have an auto-dimming mirror!
So let's see if I've got this straight:
1. Car costs more.
2. Car creaks.
3. CD is an option.
4. Manual radio tuning is a nightmare of ergonomics.
5. Vinyl seats(Leatherette is man-made, after all, no matter what cute name you want to call it)
6. Rear-view mirror that blocks view when the seat is adjusted higher.
Please read the whole review. I'm just curious. Is it me or is Edmunds really playing favorites here?