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http://www.bonforums.com/memos/memo_hutchins080101.htm
Wonder how bleak '02 will be for Lincoln. Navigator has fallen way behind Cadillac's gigantic SUV. Continental is dead. LS running on minor changes, if any. Blackwood a real odd niche market. Someone at Lincoln should be shot and sent to the Eastern Front!
08 August 2001
Lincoln Navigator Wins Satisfaction Award--Today AutoPacific presented the Lincoln Navigator with it's top award for Satisfaction in both the SUV and Total Truck categories. Auto Pacific sends surveys to all new vehicle customers who purchased during September through November of last year. The criteria is based on 1) product quality, 2) salesperson knowledge and 3) customer handling. Navigator competed against 79 other trucks, and our customers honored us with the highest rating beating out even newer entrants like BMW X5, Acura MDX and Lexus RX300.
I got the latest issue of Car&Driver magazine in the mail yesterday. In this issue is a short review of the new, "Butt-Fugly" Cadillac CTS. The car is very humble looking, but guess what ??? A five speed manual transmission is available. I guess the market isn't dead after all.
One other thought regarding HP. I too, will always be tinkering with my rides, looking to make them a little better. Just look at the aftermarket that's out there for GM's two most famous "orphans", the Buick GN and the Impala SS. If there weren't "gearheads" out here buying the parts, I doubt there would be such a large number of companies willing to supply the goodies.
Over and out...........
Guess we'll have to wait for the SVT guys to do their magic. Anyone heard anything else since the SVT SC V8 test mule was spotted at a racetrack test session?
Me, I prefer stock. Why buy something and then spend so much time, effort, and money making it "better"? If it wasn't good enough, I would've bought something else that was "better". And I don't like the thought of messing up warranties, causing problems in other areas, ruining emission controls, increasing noise levels dramatically, or degrading fuel economy. All too often side effects of the aftermarket effort to "improve".
We've been promised more power next year. I think it must be in conjunction with the Jag engine upgrade which is increasing displacement to 3.3 and 4.3. That would make sense to me since the block castings are the same. So the questions is whether the LS will get the larger displacement without VVT (or a milder, cheaper, detuned version of VVT) or keep the current displacement and add the VVT. Sounds like keeping the same blocks without VVT would be the cheaper of the two since you keep the same castings and don't add the cost of VVT. I still think Lincoln could market a SVT or special version with the Jag engine without infringing on the corporate hierarchy. Jag already has plans to SC both the V6 and V8 for the X-type and/or S-type anyway, so there's always that option.
I say give Lincoln a chance to catch up - they acknowledged that they're a year behind. In the meantime just remember that things are not usually as bad (or as good) as they seem to be. Let's just hope the 2005 redesign doesn't look like the new CTS!
Love to drive to Dearborn, seeing the country along the way, and gave some serious thought about it, but I've used up quite a bit of my puny vacation hours for the club stuff already. It would take two full days from the left coast to Dearborn with a wife and a 4 year-old, which while the LS is great for long distances, doesn't bode well for family harmony . If it was just me I would do it in a heartbeat.
aside to akirby: Couldn't agree with you more.
Think of how many V6 Autos have been sold. I bet that at least 95% of buyers are happy with the acceleration. Those that want more will always want more, no matter what.
http://www.morissdampers.com/news.html
Most cars are designed for the masses. Their target might be a specific segment of the masses, but nontheless it's the masses. There are those of us, who, for whatever the reason, want our cars to be a little unique from all of the other similar units of whatever car we have chosen.
This is where the aftermarket lives. I realize that many more people lease their cars today than in the past. Therefore, due to contractual obligation they can't or won't modify a car that will be gone in 12, 24, or 36 months. Those of us such as myself, who purchase rather than lease, tend to work with the aftermarket to either upgrade the performance or alter in some way the appearance of our car to suit our desires.
I agree that Detroit has come a long way in providing a good platform to enjoy some spirited driving with. However, they also have cut back on the number of options that used to allow you to tailor your car to your specific needs and/or wants. The aftermarket has stepped up to the plate with a lot of fairly sophisticated equipment that can fill that gap.
That's the way that I see the situation, and if you don't want to modify your car, that's your choice. This America's a wonderful country, isn't it ??
One more thought in closing. As far back as the mid 1970's, I was making modifications to my cars in order to improve cornering capability, as well as the generally accepted HP increases. Back then, however, the aftermarket was very limited in suspension upgrades. It was definitely "cut and try", or "shadetree engineering" at its finest, but it was also a "character builder".
Once again, over and out......
My discussion has completely ignored the effort to enhance the outward appearance of the LS, as there are plenty of body panel and taillight lense kits available. People will always want to customize their ride to suit their personalities. This is not to say that the LS "missed the mark", on the contrary, I think it is still the value leader in the sport sedan segment, maybe just not by as wide a margin as it used to have.
I also wanted to lower the car using a set of Eibach coils. I hesitate, however, to do this, because the rear camber settings are not equal between right and left, and since they're not adjustable (ugghh!!) I don't want to chance exaggerating a questionable situation. If not for this, the coils would have been in a long time ago.
Yes, the factories are really distant from the 60's when you could order your GTO with the sound deadening deleted for weight saving. Assembly line customization is gone, and that's where the least expensive and best mods can be had. In the press is an article about how Nissan is developing a system that will let you order a car and have it in three weeks if it's a U.S. made model. Probably no aftermarket items but it could be possible in the future.
I don't see why manufacturers could not stock, for example, a Borla system that could be factory installed at an additional "option" price. It's been done before. The assembly process is the same as the stock system so I don't think it would be a big deal. To get custom "options" now, we let the dealer choose what's available and their choices are sometimes in poor taste and tremendously overpriced. LM could always publish a "Performance Catalog" like Nissan and others do.
My idea of LS aftermarket mods aim squarely at performance. The 2002 LS, especially the V-6, is a rolling admission that first year development time restraints resulted in less than optimum intake and exhaust parameters. So the Borla and intake mods are really recommended. In the case of the Borla, it's actually better than just replacing the mufflers with 2002 models. Borla addressed not only the need for lower restriction
mufflers, but increased the pipe diameter, bends, lack of X-box, and finally made the tips chrome and visible. I can't wait to put mine on.
Other mods at the top of the list include an LSD pumpkin. What good is power if you can't put it on the ground, especially in slolom type power slides. Right now I'm afraid to power out of sharp hard turns for fear of losing rear traction as one wheel inevitably starts its independent
spin. I'm not hot on suspension mods as I can't utilize the handling potential of the car yet, especially without LSD. I'm only interested in wheels if the offset is dialed in for the LS and there is a significant weight savings. An inch wider or larger in diameter does not make IMHO a significant performance improvement for the huge investment required. Finally, I am on a 3 year Red Carpet so I don't want to modify the car so much I can't trade it in for a 2003 or order a 2004 if it has "the right stuff" (praying for VVT, six-speed and LSD).
I just need a little more power. Yesterday a 60 year old guy in a newer Avalon tangled with me at a series of stoplights and while I got off the line faster, he was doing better as I went into third. Of course, we were both exceeding the 45 mph limit but it was fun. Too bad there were no corners as part of the run. Oh, I had my 10 and 12 year old sons as ballast and he was alone. That was hurting my power to weight ratio. I think this guy read my license plate frame that reads "Not Your Father's Lincoln" on top and "LS Five Speed Manual" on the bottom and took offense.
giowa (4062): I think it's just personal preference. Some people just enjoy tinkering and personalizing their cars. It happens that exhaust and intake mods are the easiest to do in many cases. Ditto with the sound system and appearance upgrades. With the lack of mechanical aftermarket stuff, there isn't much more to change outside of totally fabricating your mods.
slunar (4071): Actually I look at ROI. Time + dollars related to actual benefit. I won't waste time or money on something that will pick up 10 hp or add 0.1 G at the skid pad. It's incremental. On the other hand, when the 2.8L V6 in my Fiero sneezes, I will either go with a 3.8L S/C or Northstar. Big time and money investment with a proportional big payback in performance. Using your analogy, many of these minor upgrades are more like sawing an extra hole in the outhouse bench to double it's intake, not moving to indoor plumbing and flush toilets.
The minor mods I have done (wud and tires) have enhanced my enjoyment of the car. Lincoln's offer to retrofit the wood wheel and shifter was appreciated. The ability to upgrade the transmission software to the latest version is a huge plus.
Overall, I enjoy the car more now than ever. Having said that, I will be expecting major improvements in the next product cycle. Slunar's outhouse analogy is right on.
Now, I would like to find that 60 year old in the Avalon and show him some LS tail lights. :-)
Airwolf1000
As for "cost effective", shoot, we'd all be driving Civics if that was our motivator.
akirby, save that earlier post. May need to Copy/Paste it in here every few weeks.
BMW 3 Series: "Stunning M3 debuts; 2.5L base 6 adds 15 hp; hotter 3.0L upline 6 replaces 2.8L; AWD option on sedan and wagons"
BMW 5 Series: "two new engine choices"
Lexus IS300: Completely new [now with manual tranny for MY 02]
MB C-Class: "Completely redesigned for '01... new chassis, two new engines, a 6M trans for the std C240"
Don't forget about the new 02 Jag X-type. And the 02 Altima shows what is happening at a level beneath the LS.
About the only car that has chanched slower than the LS is the Catera. And look what a non-player it is in the market!
Akirby- you could have left it as "Sentra" To wit: preview of 2002 Sentra Spec V in 9/01 Car & Driver:
Available with 6-speed manual, LSD, 215/45ZR-17 Contis, Rockford Fosgate stereo. 0-60 in high 6's, "coners with minmal body roll, is stable in transitional maneuvers, and turns in with real conviction." Estimated base price 17-18K.
I can understand why some of you who have 2 year leases expiring might be disappointed that no major changes occured for 2002, but think of the position that Lincoln was in in 99. They had no idea if this car would even sell - a totally new car that was totally different from anything else in a new market segment. No business would commit big bucks to a project like that until they're sure they can sell them. I'm sure that's why they're a year behind where they wanted to be. It takes 2-3 years (or more) to make major changes to a vehicle - you can't just do it overnight. I'm also sure that Lincoln has to coordinate major changes with Jag since it's a shared platform. That may have more to do with the engine changes than anything else.
So let's stop whining about the competition and focus on the LS again.
Artie: Typical mispelling. Told you not to pay attention to the fat, bald guy!
Brian
Regards,
Victor
Look at Kevin's situation... the dealer won't even secure a window in the upright position, so that his window isn't down 24/7 - and that is DURING the warranty period for a 2 year old car!
Is Lincoln going to recall these things or give us an warranty to repair for the life of the car?
My RR window is on its second failure - waiting on backordered parts... neither failure was preceeded by any warning (crunching) noises.
My LR window makes a crunching sound at the end of closing - Is this one going too?
Is the outside temp. a factor. My LS is not garaged and it seems funny that so many are having the crashes at the same time.
Well, my only recourse has been to convince friends to avoid the LS and it works, (2) friends have purchased Acura 3.2TL's instead of the LS, so at least I'm getting some satisfaction!
Are you listening Lincoln - fix the problem or lose more sales...
Look how bleak '02 is for Lincoln. Navigator getting old, lots of competition, incl. a Cadillac that is creaming it in press comparisons. Continental dead; no replacement. Blackwood a niche player limited in sales; something like 5,000 units or so, maybe ten. Town Car soldiering on with no changes; a dinosaur marketed to the AARP crowd and heavily discounted. Only the LS is a fresh, current, competitive product. But it hasn't been updated during its three complete MYs
How much anyone want to bet me that Lincoln will have to offer serious subsidies, discounts, free option packages, rebates, etc. to move MY 02 metal? Sales might spike up on a car like LS if the deals are great. Then all those people will be locked into their 36 month leases. Many other buyers will move elsewhere in '02 or in '03 if the changes don't truly keep up with the competition.
And I do think that a $36-40,000 nicely to heavily optioned 330i sedan is a direct competitor to LS, both 6 & 8. I was trying to buy a 323i when I found the LS.
The turn signal stalk had a faulty wiper internal switch that caused the auto wipers to come on when they felt like it. Other than that this car is a pure joy to own and drive.
I enjoy using the SST especially after Mark upgraded the Software engagements. Every time I get on the freeways, I look forward to flooring it and running it through the gears. The engine in this car is fantastic both performance wise and the audible notes that emanate from under that muscular hood. It just sings “Wood . Leather . Adrenaline”
My only real problem is keeping it under 100. Thankfully the radar detector reminds me of reality and I take my foot off the accelerator. Another gripe I have is the time I spend looking at maps to find the curvies. Don’t you just hate that?
I guess you could say Lincoln really screwed me over.
LOL
lslincolnsucks - My friend Kevin (he accompanied me to Mania I in Irvine) has a '00 3.2 TL and would love to get rid of it in favor of an LS . . . he's just "stuck" in his current lease. Per Kevin, the TL has too many squeaks and rattles, and just doesn't feel tight enough for him.
I know that traction control really doesn't help in winter weather but I'm told the Smart Trac is suppose to be Cats meow in winter. I would like to hear a actual LS owners opinion. Tahnks
Think the way to view it is sports sedan, not necessarily RWD sport sedan. Sure, we'd like to limit it to RWD, but there are some competitive FWD or AWD sport sedans. Their numbers are competitive. We'd likely argue they "feel different", but that doesn't mean they can be automatically discounted.
"Although it's unfair to judge any automobile outside the NHRA on nothing more than its straight-line acceleration, it can be an indication of overall responsiveness in passing situations, cornering and general road behavior. Here the Jaguar, although acceptable by most standards, lagged behind the best of this particular class and therefore fell in the final grading."
Sounds all too familiar to several LS reviews. I was surprised to see the 0-60 time for the S-type 4.0 at 6.3 seconds, which I think is the fastest time for it in any rag so far. Makes me wonder if the Jag has new PCM software too. The Jag is listed with a 3.31 rear end. Interestingly, both the HP of the S-type and the 540i are almost idendical 281 vs. 282) but the 540i has a lot more torque 324 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM vs. 287 lb-ft at 4300 RPM. Overall the 540i was the fastest car in the test wining 5 of the 7 different acceleration tests C&D runs.
I don't want to start a flame throwing battle here, but this is an old, and tired discussion that's been rehashed for the bazillionth time. The regular contributors on this board pretty much know where we all stand on this point, so I'm not sure who you're trying to convince with your argument. I'm not saying that you're argument doesn't have merit, but it doesn't fully wash with me.
. . . donning the nomex, just in case ;-)
Other than it being slower than a baseball sized turd ball passing through my cats butt :<), as some on this list would have you believe, there was no competition, then or now, that offered the semi-luxury features the LS does. Who knows about next year. The LS was the best choice, at the time, for me.
There was a HBR article a while back that contended that 60% of all decisions made could be proven wrong - given the benefit of 12 months foresight. Given my decision matrix, none of the cars mentioned in post #4097 (and I've driven most of them) came close to the LS at my moment of truth. My crystal ball is not as clear as some others' when it comes to my next moment of truth.
BTW, does anyone know of a good laxative for my cat?