Lincoln LS

raymmer · February 2001

I used it prior to getting my LS, but the price offered by my dealer's internet guy was about $800 above the edmunds price at the time and he would not budge on it. I subsequently purchased my LS at the same dealer from a showroom salesman by having him beat another price from another dealer's internet guy. The personal consultant was very helpful but the price wasn't right.

scottc8 · February 2001

Congratulations! Re your recall/TSB questions: Your car should be included in the ball joint recall. In most cases all that is required is for the dealer to re-torque a couple nuts. As for the transmission, the reflash will correct slow or "delayed" gear engagements, if you have such a problem. If your car shifts to your satisfaction, you don't need it & it won't do you any good. All the details, numbers, etc. pertinent to these issues are available at the LLSOC web site, courtesy of our wise and humble LS Evangelist.

Drive, enjoy, come back & tell us what you think. We already know what you're going to think, but tell us anyway.

Scott

marsha7 · February 2001

I took off a few days as the work load in the practice needed some extra time...come back to 132 new messages...now need extra time to catch up, almost another fulltime job (LOL)

akirby: it is always BOB...I named my username after my wife, who does not really use the Internet...marsha1 was taken, marsha2 was taken, marsha3 was taken (can you see the pattern here?) but marsha7 was available...so, if I am lazy or overly-anxious to post my "words of wisdom" than I forget to sign off as Bob, and only marsha7 is displayed...but it is always (so far, to date) Bob...hope that clears it up

ls1: thanks for that update, always appreciate hearing from you and reading your posts

Bob (I remembered, or, I am just not lazy at this moment)...:):):)

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

I have sent off the email to Leavy. He should respond by the weekend if he isn't out trying to get sponsorship bucks so he can race. It's looking like the first race won't be Sebring but Mosport. Some of the funding he was counting on has come through as of yet.

Brian

karzz · February 2001

Nudo Leather Seating Surfaces
Wheels: 17 in. 5-Spoke Chrome Aluminum w/65L
European Sport Suspension Tuning
Tires: P235/50VR17 BSW High Performance AS w/65L
6-Disc In-Dash Mounted CD Changer
Alpine Audiophile System
Power Moonroof
Keyfob Sunroof Control
Premium Trunk Mat w/Lincoln Star
Cargo Net
17 in. Mini Aluminum Spare Wheel
Spare Tire: T185/60R17

ezaircon4jc · February 2001

What the heck is "Nudo!???" Sounds like that fake suede stuff those foriegn cars use!

azlels · February 2001

I need some unbiased advise. I currently drive a 1998, 528 which goes off the lease in 90 days. It is a superb car but I want to go American again. I actually stumbled on the S. I have now driven both the 6 and the 8 several times. I noted quite a positive difference in the handling of the 6. It seemed to be better balanced and the steering seems quicken. When I read all the reviews, I discovered that several reviews acknowledged that the LS6 handled better but the 8 was "soother and quitter" as well as faster. I did not find the 8 to be quitter at all even though slightly faster. I then called the senior mechanic at the dealer and asked for his opinion on the two engine. He was very careful and guarded about what he said but the gist of it was that the 6 is a long proven engine with zero problems. He pointed out that it has more horsepower than the v8 in the CT. He mentioned that he personally has a truck with this engine with 136,000 miles and is runs perfectly. I then asked if the 8 was a new engine and did it have problems. He said not really problems but since it is new they have been learning some things about it such as unusual sounds etc. Finally I asked which engine he would choose and he said he could be satisfied just fine with the 6. He said the 8 is a great engine but I should also consider that it will consume more fuel. This discussion did not really lead me to a decision but it made me give serious consideration to the 6 since I don't really mind if it take .6 seconds more to hit 60 in the v6 automatic. I have ruled out the stick 6 because I don't really love to shife and with the shiftable automatic you have almost the sam thing all be is a little slower. So do I follow the advise of most reviewer and get the 8 even though I honestly feel the 6 handles better even in the automatic? The extra cost of the 8 is not a consideration since you probably get most of it back on resale.

Has anyone else been in my decision mode and gone with the 6 only to regret it. Have any of the LS8 owners had any problems with this new v8 engine or has it been flawless? Give me some feedback please. Does the 6 get significantly better mileage the the 8 or are they about the same.

scottc8 · February 2001

Sounds like you prefer the V6 so the choice seems obvious. If you followed the advice of most reviewers, you would bow three times toward Munich and get another BMW. Forget them and buy what you like. Personally, I love my V8 and have not had a single problem or unusual sound. I don't care much about 0-60 but drive a lot of rural two-lane highways and the V8's passing power is a real kick.

That's my personal preference, different from yours. You've driven both cars and know what you like. Want feedback? Buy the 6, pocket the cash difference, and hit the road.

Scott

johndon · February 2001

This is my first time posting. I took my 01 V6 for the first service appointment and transmission reflash. The dealer was unable to complete reflash due to lack of software. Would Mark Kovalsky please arrange to have TSB 01 01 05 downloaded to Forrester L/M in Chambersburg, PA?

I have been looking at these postings for over a year and have learned a lot pertaining to this fine automobile.

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

I'm glad you've decided the LS is a worthy successor to your 528. If you wanted a manual, the choice becomes one, the LS-6. After that, it gets more cloudy. The LS-6 is better balanced due to the lower weight of the engine by about 100 pounds. Both engines are reliable. The ticking sound that everyone hears on the V-8 is the timing chain rotating. It is an all metal chain driving double overhead cams. There haven't been any more problems with the 8 than with the 6.

The 6 has less power and torque than the 8. The LS-6 with a manual isn't that much less in a real-world situation than the LS-8 auto. That said, it will feel similar to the 528. Both engines are very tight for the first few thousand miles so the power won't feel quite there. Once you get past that point both engines loosen up.

As scottc8 said, don't listen to the so-called "experts", including the dealer mechanics. Go with what feels right for you. The only option I would steer you into going for is the Sport suspension.

Brian

desertguy · February 2001

I think you will get very little guidance from the participants on this board. The six owners will say buy the six and the eight owners will say buy the eight. That said, some of the six owners will say that if the eight had offered a manual trans, they would have bought it instead. Personally, given a chance to make my purchase over again, I would still get the six.

keyrow · February 2001

My dealer finally received the VIN for my 01 Pearl Blue MANUAL, convenience pkg, heated seats. Not that I am anxious or anything, but I already have an Exotic Wood Dash kit, K&N, a case of Mobil1 and about $150 worth of Zaino products in my garage! I looked at Borla but they do not have a cat back system for the V6 yet so I am very interested in the Magnaflow project.

The only problem I force is forcing myself to forego driving for a weekend to apply the Zaino wax. I know the first application is work intensive but I have been using their products for a couple of years (being converted from Zymol) and am totally convinced they have the best product.

I looked back over several hundred posts trying to find a reference to a protective coating for the head lamps, but I failed to find it. If anyone knows about a good product I would appreciate your letting me know.

BTW my wife insisted that if I got the LS she wanted a Lexus. While looking at a GS300 at the local Automall she noticed a light green Infiniti I30 next door. She said "My, isn't that pretty." So she has an Infiniti rather than a Lexus. It's certainly an inferior car but to her it is "pretty". Women! Go figure.

Jim

giowa · February 2001

Saw a large article on the annual NADA Convention, in Las Vegas. Buried in the article was a discussion about how the dealers beat the dot.comer startup operations. "It didn't work, largely because everyone underestimated the strength of dealer political action committees. The dealers went to war in state legislatures around the country. They convinced lawmakers to pass measures that made it virtually impossible for dotcoms to act as auto brokers or engage in the direct sales of new cars. The grassroots legislative effort clearly had an effect. The dealers won, plain and simple." These same dealers go to war with the manufacturers every time the manufacturers attempt to take concrete steps to weed out bad dealers or reward good dealers.

giowa · February 2001

You don't say what type driving you do. I think it makes a big difference if you live in a congested large city, in rural area, etc. Do you do a lot of passing on 2 lane roads? Do you routinely drive 75 mph or higher? Do you haul around the family a lot at speed?

However, as long as you have taken lengthy drives in both LS8s and auto LS6s over the type roads your normally drive and in the type traffic you normally experience with the type loads you normally carry, then I'd say go with your test drives. If the 6 meets your needs, it will be fine.

I've put about 28,000 miles on my LS8 Sport and a couple thousand on my mom's LS6 base auto. From both my personal experience and after reviewing all the automotive press test reports, there is a big difference in real useable power, in favor of the LS8. Reported 0-60 times have LS8 around 7.2-7.5 sec range. LS6 around 9.0-9.5 sec range. Remember, the LS is a heavy car. I haven't noticed a real significant difference in fuel economy. My 69-yr-old mom gets about 1-2 mpg better, but where I (37-yr-old) drive 75 mph she drives 65 mph. This suggests to me that the small 6 with automatic is a bit overwhelmed.

I concur with ls1bmw0 about opting for the Sport Pkg. I don't spend too much time in big cities. I can really enjoy mine on twisting back country roads.

medphys · February 2001

When I went to one of the local dealers for Borla, here in New
Orleans, I was impressed with the guy's knowledge and dedication from the start. He had taken over a family business, raced cars and even services national SCCA cars. When I inquired about the Borla system for my car, he suggested that the Magnaflow may give me what I am looking for cheaper. I don't intend to compare dynamometer readings, and I am only beginning to autocross, so I was mainly looking for a better sound and exhaust flow. He explained to me that the Borla system was stainless steel, he thought the design of the stock pipes from block to muffler was efficient, and the Magnaflow was comparable to the Borla muffler and could be tweaked to give different ranges of Rumble. I bought the Magnaflows and saved ~$600. Anyone have any opinions about this?

Be safe,

Medphys

rayainsw · February 2001

Well now, I had an opportunity today to drive a BMW 5 Series back-to-back with my own car. This is the first time since before I bought my 2000 LS8 Sport that I've driven a BMW 5 - though I've driven at least 3 2001 330i-s: Sport twice and Non-Sport once - all with Steptronic trans.

I found this experience most interesting.

The car: A 1998 540i Sport, 5-speed automatic with just over 32,000 miles. Moonroof. Tires wire nearly new Michelin Pilots - size 235/45 x 17. Asking price in the Atlanta newspaper: $42,850.

I wanted to drive this car for a couple of reasons. 1.) A new 530/540i is on my short list of replacements for my LS. 2.) I wanted to compare my LS with just under 20,000 miles to a used BMW.

I drove the BMW while my LS was being serviced literally across the street. I drove their standard test drive route. Then when I left the Lincoln dealer, I drove exactly the same route - and in as close to the same manner as the test drive. This meant: very similar speeds, moonroof in tilt up position, automatic in D5 - since a '98 5-Series did not offer the Steptronic feature.

My observations: (Caveat: My opinions only - YMMV!)

The ride is a bit better, under some conditions in the BMW, but I was actually surprised at how similar they felt when driven over the same roads in roughly the same manner. At high speeds (I did not have the opportunity to exceed 75, so high means not above my normal interstate cruising speeds) the BMW seemed to have a bit less 'float' than my LS. What surprised me most was that with the BMW's Sport suspension tuning, and the low profile tires, the harshness over small, sharp pavement irregularities was nearly identical. I would judge this a very close win for the BMW. But the LS does certainly acquit itself very well here!

The handling feel was also very similar. I again applaud the LS design team for the suspension! The ultimate grip might be better for the BMW 5 Sport - but the LS does feel quite comfortable in very 'brisk' driving.

The engine of the BMW generates more HP and TQ. And published numbers suggest that the 540 is over a second quicker in the quarter mile. But (again, surprisingly) it did not feel that much quicker to me. Possibly the biggest surprise on the drive, for me! Oh, and there was no discernable V8-ness to any sounds coming from under the hood or out the exhaust. Odd. (Compared to my 'Audiophile'? MagnaFlow-ed LS - well there was no comparison to my ears.)

The trans. has many of the same issues I dislike about the LS trans. when running in full automatic mode. But the kick-down from 5th to 3rd at 45 mph or so (for instance) was actually noticeably quicker in my LS. And the fact that my LS has SST just puts brisk driving with an automatic trans. in a whole different category.

Well - I just thought this was all very interesting - and not exactly what I expected. And if a new 2003 LS is created with all the basic goodness of my car, plus a significant boost in HP and TQ, it will certainly make that short list.

Cheers,
- Ray

Who does NOT claim to be objective on this subject - but always tries

ezaircon4jc · February 2001

I have the 6 and the important thing that you yield to the 8's is torque. Had I had it to over again, I would've insisted on the 8. In fact my next one will be the 8. That said, I have yet to be in a situation where the car felt "overwhelmed." It is heavy, but so is everything else out there with a 6. The car isn't about 0-60 times. It's about a controlled ride. In real world emergency maneuvers, after all, that is more likely than 0-60 times, the car is FANTASTIC. Drop on over to www.llsoc.com, go to the picture gallery, download the LS MANIA autocross video (it will take a LOT of time) and watch what this car is capable of in the hands of addmitted amateurs. That is the camera guy tilting the camera, not the car! MPG is only 1 between the 2 motors. I've ben getting around 22-23 in mixed driving, with a heavy foot and Californias junk gas.

I second what LS1bmw0 said, opt for the sport package. I would add the convinence pkg., especially if you have more than one driver.

Also what giowa said. Drive them both the way you would normally drive and pick the one that suits your needs. You will be happy with either choice. One more thing. I don't think the message center is available with the 6 so you'll have to do your MPG calculations the old fashioned way. Or use a calculator. Let us know what you decide. We will be happy for you when you pick up your new LS!

Michael.

sawmill · February 2001

Be sure to factor in the convenience accessories, if you are concerned about the "luxury" aspects as well as handling. The V8 comes with them included (or used to), the V6 I believe they are options.

Particularly noteworthy are the memory seats, steering extension and side mirrors - a real neat detail if there is more than one driver, or you trust your car to valets. I like the moisture-sensing wipers - in So. Cal where it rarely rains, they are great for mist and drizzle. And I use the homelink garage door opener daily.

heyjewel · February 2001

keyrow;
Congradulations on your order of a 5speed V6! I too am waiting for my manual. It's tough being patient waiting on such a gem, ain't it?

azlels;
Great questions, good analysis. You're doing all the right things in your research. I agonized over this too. Just be sure, don't look back after you make your decision. Either decision is a good one.
Personally, I got the 6 because I decided to get manual. If i'd have gotten the auto, I would have gone with the 8 because I do like the extra power/torque. Like but not need is the keyword though.
I think checking with your service guy was a smart thing. I did it too! I've had a Mark8 for 6 years and found a service guy who's great and honest. I asked him similar questions, first about LS in general and he said so far they've been great. About the Duratech V6 he didn't hesitate to say they've been very reliable engines.
You also noticed the same thing I did about handling. I noticed it right away while driving both V6's and V8's at the LS Mania autocross event. The 6 felt slightly more balanced and quicker-handling to me. The 8 was great too, but there was definitely a very slight nose-heavy feeling compared to the 6. Lastly, I was very surprised at how much of a screamer the V6/auto could be when kept in it's peak torque range. All this said though, the V8 engine felt overall smoother, quicker, quieter, more 'refined'.
AS for the rest of the car, someone broght up a good point, one that disappointed me - the message center/computer is available only with the V8. Being a gadget guy, I'd really like to have that. Other than that, there's nothing the V8 has that can't be ordered on the 6. Convenience package adds all the other gadgets. The sport pkg can be had with either. You mentoned the SST - manual-shifting tranny. That comes *only* with the Sport pkg, which also has bigger wheels and firmer suspension. You probably want to drive a sport and a non-sport to see if the firmer suspension is your bag. It will handle more crisply but will not ride as smooth as the non-sport. Seems that many on this board prefer the sport. Gas mileage is maybe 5 to 10% better in the 6. But someone also made a good point which I'll translate to: over the long haul, the engine/car combo with the higher power/weight ratio should perform better/last longer. Generically speaking.
All this said, if I were you, I'd get the 6. Or the 8. Either one is great. :>)
The I30 your wife got is certainly a fine vehicle too. Nice garage-mate to the LS.

stanny1 · February 2001

Congrats on the LS purchase. I also got the K&N and I think it makes a small difference. And I also got a case of Syn oil - still sitting here after 9000 miles. As Lord Brian says, the engine needs an extended break-in. I kept waiting for the performance of my Manual to "level-off" and I'm not sure it is fully "broke-in" even now. But I do recommend that you hold off on the synthetic oil until the engine is a little looser. I've been using probably the best Dino oil since I got the Manual in June - Kendall GT-1. It's hard to find but it is an Eastern parafinic (wax) based oil versus the Western asphaltic based oil like Valvoline we have more commonly here in California. It's easier to refine out the wax than the asphalt in Dino oil.
There is a "learning curve" with the Manual. When you drive it off the lot, it will be a stubborn, uncooperative [non-permissible content removed]. Even if you have driven Manuals all your life, you will miss some shifts and stall at intersections. The engine will not want to rev so don't even try. The Getrag will be tight and notchy. The clutch will be hard, stiff and the friction point will be difficult to predict. You will spout four-letter words. You will have buyer's and Manual choice remorse. I am here to counsel you. All those symptoms will disappear with time. I think the magic began to appear at around 3000 miles. The engine and tranny started their honeymoon and the Duratech developed this bitchin' "growl" at higher rpm. Before that, it was all mental masturbation. So, don't play boy racer, 0-60 record setter or exercise any fantasies until at least 3k. Change the original oil early to new Dino oil and keep puttin those miles on. This is not the time for the wifey or your friends to "test" the car. It could be embarrasing. Just tell them that the Manual has a special break-in procedure that only you have been trained in. And it does. So enjoy your LS - in about 3 to 5000 miles. Until then, be patient and keep the faith. You will be rewarded for your patience in spades. Stanny1 - who can't drive an automatic with TC near orange cones anywhere.

captdavid · February 2001

Just got my 2000 LS out of the shop and I found it interesting that the odometer read 10,150 miles. It read 13,500 miles when I took it in! The clock had changed but the radio stations were un-touched. My free loaner was a V8 LS. It seemed somewhat more powerful but with much more engine noise and whine. The V6 Stick is a winner ...I will likely trade for a V8 stick if and when.

stanny1 · February 2001

The trick to driving the stick is to study the torque graphs of the V-8 and V-6 on the llsoc web site. The V-8 has a much wider torque curve. You must keep the Duratech between 3000 and a little more than 5000 rpm. The Getrag cooperates by having fairly close ratios. Experiment by reving to a certain rpm in each gear and noting where the rpm drops as you engage the next higher gear. Try not to let the rpm drop to much less than 3000 on the shift. Stay "on the cam". Having a "G" meter would help, but I find that reving much over 5000 rpm actually slows the acceleration curve. Until VVT, a six-speed Getrag ala the SVT Focus, and a corresponding rear end ratio of at least 3:58, this is the best we can do. Shifted properly, you might just beat a V-8 in 0-60 (make sure you use a broken-in engine unlike the car magazines do).

rosaljr · February 2001

Just got the car back and I must say there are no more delays getting into reverse. Transmission now seems to know what gear to be in no matter what speed i'm at. Very satisfied with this latest program. Makes playtime/drivetime much more enjoyable!

I'd like to thank this list, probably would have never known that there was a fix for that transmission problem.

heyjewel · February 2001

stanny1:
I gotta just love your analogies in your V6 manual breakin treatise! It's gonna kill me to wait 3 months to really 'drive' my Dura-Get LS. But I will try to be as patient as you advise. I also want to run the engine with syn-oil. But I've got free 36000 mile scheduled maintenance. I'm still thinkin bout the best way to get my moneys' worth while moving to syn at maybe the second change, say 5 or 6,000 miles. Then maybe only have em change the oil every 10,000 with syn that I'd provide. Nah - that's too anal. Maybe I should just take the free dino oil til 36000. Course, maybe my dealer uses crappy oil ...
Can't wait to get to where you are with your manual V6. Til then keep up your descriptions of how it feels.

captdavid:
Hey, that's it! Get my odometer adjusted negative 3000 miles per dealer visit. That'll be how I can get my $$$ worth on my sched maint!

karzz · February 2001

The March '01 Car and Driver has an article on the long term test of their 2000 LS8 Sport. They drive the car 41,500 miles. The acceleration and braking were all improved at 40,000 vs. when new.

0-60 7.4 seconds new and 7.3 @ 40K,
5-60 street start was 7.9 new and 7.5 @ 40K.
70 - 0 braking went from 188' new to 175' @ 40K.

They estimate the tires to last 49,000 miles, front brake pads 80,000 miles and rear pads more than 100,000 miles.

They had nothing go wrong with the car until 37,000 miles when they replaced a front hub-and-wheel bearing assembly after it started groaning. At 41,500 a similar groaning was coming from the rear so they replaced both rear half shafts. All repairs were covered by warranty.

They had the usual LS rants but they ended up saying "this is the best-driving V-8 sedan for the enthusiast dollar."

slunar · February 2001

Overall a very positive long term review from C&D. Some of my thoughts on their review.

1. How can the LS be ".. the best driving V-8 sedan for the enthusiast dollar." and not make their top 10 list?

2. What do you guys think of their snow tire solution? Note they bought 16" Blizzaks along with 16" on-sport rims and put them on their sport LS.

3. Maybe it's just their photo lab, but how come only the photo of the LS in front of Fenway looks like Light Parchment Gold while in all the other photos their LS looks like it is Light Parchment Tri-Coat?

4. They don't give the temperature, altitude and other weather factors in the before and after performance #s. A 20 degree difference in temperature or a 1000' in altitude can have quite and effect on the #s. Since all the photo's in the long term article have the snow tires on, which tires did they use for the 40,000 mile performance #as? Wouldn't it be shocking to find out that the Blizzaks' stop in a shorter distance than the M&S Firehawks?

5. I agree with their comments about "plenty or power... but it's not effectively delivered to the wheels. They also complain about 1st and 2nd gear ratios being too close together. If you hit the gas in your V8-LS at the right speed it can feel awesome. But do the same a the wrong speed and it can feel sluggish.

6. Another comment was "The engine & transmission noises are not acceptable for a car in this class..." They aren't specific but I assume they are referring to the cam chain whine and the half-shaft related drone. I agree with their complaint.

Overall I think the C&D bunch are still BMW prejudiced but most of their comments are very accurate.

PS. for Edmunds I hate the spell checker on you new software probably why I don't bother to participate here very often any more.

sawmill · February 2001

Don't worry about spelling . . . it can't be worse than mine!

eyaron · February 2001

Picked up my new LS V6 Manual with Conv. Package, sun roof and heated seats. Pearl Blue on the outside, gray on the inside. Major addition to date:

1. Mud Flaps (both front and back)- the Lincoln Molded ones require Wheel removal and two drilling per mud flap. It took me about two hours to get them on. I should have let the dealer do it for $70.00 as they asked for. But by now, my son and I know how replace tires and place the Jack back in its place.
2. Wood Trim from www.woodtrim.com. This was simple and easy, with the exception of the center console. They do not have one for manual yet. They are checking on it and should get back to me late next week.

Car is a dream. I have already 350 miles on it can could not ask for more. Everyone who rides the car has only positive comments about it.

The only negatives: In car storage. There simply is no place for the following items:

Folded umbrella, Change, sunglasses, additional CD's and so on. All of which can be done real easy.

Also, the cup holders for the driver and front passenger are in the way of shifting, both manual and SST. A better solution is needed there.

Another major ommition, is a Cell phone universal kit. I can't seem to find anyone who can provide full information on the subject. I know I get the Microphone assembly, and replace the jack, and plug it to the cell phone mobile kit, but what about the radio interfaces (the mute/answer button and speakers, and so on). I would like to post all that information, both here and on the LLSOC web site as well, so please let me know what you have done, and what works better for you. The more detailed information the better.

In addition, I tried to price a navigation system, but with the replacement of the build in audio system, addition of a CD changer and so on, the bottom line is around $4,500.00 On my wife's Acura MDX, it was a "simple" $2,000.00 option, built it and works like a champ!. One would think that this should be a factory option.

wlp2 · February 2001

I've had my 01 V8 for two weeks now. I love it. Drives and rides great. I really enjoy this board too(read the first 400 posts last night)!
Some quick questions:
(1) Is the Exotic Wood Trim REALLY easy to install? I don't want to screw up this great car!
(2) Can the air bag warning stickers on the sun visors be removed?
(3) Is there a chrome grill available to replace the black one?
(4) Has anyone had trouble with the radio station settings "jumping around" after setting?
(5) Can the steering wheel radio station selector be made to go through all of the buttons instead of just toggling through the 3 settings on one specific button?
(6) Does the car need to be undercoated? The salesman didn't ask me and I didn't think about it at the time. I live in Maryland, so we get salt during winter.
(7) Just curious why the lower grill is in two parts - 2/3 and 1/3. Why not a solid piece or otherwise 50:50?
(8) In an earlier post, Keyrow mentioned Zaino wax. Tell me about it. I thought nothing could top Zymol!
(9) The traction control comes on automatically every time I start the car. I have to consciously turn it off each time. I thought it was only needed for bad weather driving? If true, then why does it always come on when I start the car?
(10) Which is better for heavy traffic stop-and-go driving, D4 or D5? Which is better for the open road?
(11) An old post mentioned LampGard from Weather Tech as a good thing to install. What are your thoughts? And again, is it easy to install?
Thanks for all the previous responses to my earlier posts. Look forward to hearing from you on this one.

markls8 · February 2001

joe166 - Try www.woodtrim.com . It's called Joshua Tree and it's received favourable reviews on this forum in the past although hasn't been mentioned in the last six months or so (maybe because Brian's site has made the searching of archived postings obsolete and it isn't mentioned on his site).I LOVE wood trim in a car (a la Jag) so I installed the kit in my LS this past summer and to be perfectly honest I can't see any possible way that the finished product could be of any better quality. The pieces fit precisely and the factory match was perfect. The pieces have a very thick clear finish on them and the edges are nicely radiused and chamfered. No problem with any of the switches rubbing or indicator lights being blocked. Some care and patience and manual dexterity is required if you install it yourself. I believe the price was < US$200 and can accomodate any option (sunroof, phone) configuration. One beef I do recall now is that there was insufficient surface prep supplied with the kit. It's a tube in which you break the internal glass vial to mix the two chemicals and apply after using alcohol to clean the surface. I applied it quickly but there wasn't enough and it's very volatile. I finished the job without it and (touch fake wood) haven't had a problem yet in either very hot or very cold temperatures. If you order the kit ask them for a second tube of the stuff.
ls1bmw0-you might want to check this site out because they have a CARBON FIBRE Kit!!!!
BTW- Congrats Brian on a fine site and all of your accomplishments -LS Mania etc.

fokrab · February 2001

Better get used to the I30, once thw wife drives the LS it's a gonna !

akirby · February 2001

(1) Is the Exotic Wood Trim REALLY easy to install? I don't want to screw up this great car!
Yes, but you have to take your time and be very careful around the buttons.
(2) Can the air bag warning stickers on the sun visors be removed?
Not very easily.
(3) Is there a chrome grill available to replace the black one?
I sincerely hope not.
(4) Has anyone had trouble with the radio station settings "jumping around" after setting?
Nope.
(5) Can the steering wheel radio station selector be made to go through all of the buttons instead of just toggling through the 3 settings on one specific button?
Not sure what you mean here - if you're talking about the rocker switch it will cycle through each of the 6 preset buttons in order. Make sure your buttons are all set. This plus (4) sounds like a potential problem with the radio. Get it checked.
(6) Does the car need to be undercoated? The salesman didn't ask me and I didn't think about it at the time. I live in Maryland, so we get salt during winter.
Living in Atlanta I'm probably not qualified to answer, but I have heard that undercoating can actually block the drain holes and trap water causing it to rust faster.
(7) Just curious why the lower grill is in two parts - 2/3 and 1/3. Why not a solid piece or otherwise 50:50?
It's a European spec requirement so a tow hook can be attached. Jimmybob had the name for it (Ditch extraction??)
(8) In an earlier post, Keyrow mentioned Zaino wax. Tell me about it. I thought nothing could top Zymol!
Check out the car car forum. From what I hear Zaino has developed quite a cult....er....enthusiast following.
(9) The traction control comes on automatically every time I start the car. I have to consciously turn it off each time. I thought it was only needed for bad weather driving? If true, then why does it always come on when I start the car?
It's not just for bad weather. You can break the rear wheels loose at any time. The system doesn't activate until it detects a wheel slip. You can't anticipate when you might need it so it's better to leave it on all the time and turn it off when you know you don't want it.
(10) Which is better for heavy traffic stop-and-go driving, D4 or D5? Which is better for the open road?
Leave it in D5 unless you find it constantly shifting between 4th and 5th.
(11) An old post mentioned LampGard from Weather Tech as a good thing to install. What are your thoughts? And again, is it easy to install?
No experience here.

akirby · February 2001

make that "car carE forum".

akrus · February 2001

slunar:

Regarding your question "What do you guys think of their snow tire solution? Note they bought 16" Blizzaks along with 16" on-sport rims" The selection of snow tire choices is much greater in 16" than in 17". The price you pay for 16" tires with takeoff rims is not that far off the price of 17" snows alone, it's even cheaper if you can find 16" steel wheels. With a spare set of rims, changing over becomes a very simple driveway job. Swapping tires on the same rims costs you a trip to the tire shop. Bang up a takeoff rim during the winter and at least it's not your nice summer wheels.

Regarding your question whether the "Blizzaks' stop in a shorter distance than the M&S Firehawks?", as an owner of Blizzaks and Firehawks, I can tell you they definitely do and don't. On ice and snow they definitely stop better than the Firestones. In the middle of summer's heat, the Firestones would be far better. However, the best stopping distance on dry, cold pavement with Blizzaks is no where near as short as the Firestones on dry, warm pavement.

In the same Car & Driver issue as the long-term LS review, Csaba Csere's editorial "Snow tires still beat four-wheel drive" touches on the differences between dedicated winter tires and performance tires:

"The fact is that everything that makes a tire grip tenaciously when the pavement is dry and warm works against that tire in snow. The large blocks of tread that resist squirming under heavy lateral loads want to glide above the layer of snow, no matter how thin. The narrow, angled grooves, which can funnel large volumes of water to the side, are too narrow and shallow to bite into the packed snowflakes. And the tread compounds, which readily conform to the grain of the pavement in the search for every last pound of grip, while staying together at 200 degrees of working temperature, have as much affinity for snow as Al Gore does for the Supreme Court." This quote by Csaba Csere is in the March 2001 issue of Car & Driver.

The original Blizzaks (WS-15) feel very mushy in cornering and braking on the dry stuff during winter, but grip wonderfully on snow and ice. People with performance cars complained so much, that Bridgestone decided to make a performance version using a similar compound (MZ-01, MZ-02 and I think there is yet another) but a firmer sidewall. The MZ-01 (which I have on my LS) handle surprisingly well, but not as well as the Firestones in July.

If I were to do it again, I'd get 16" WS-15's and sacrifice some of the dry handling that I gained with the MZ-01's. I believe the MZ-02's are supposed to be better than the MZ-01's in deep snow, but not as good on ice. As the recent winters in southern Ontario were rather mild with not much snow, I decided to go for the ice tire. Unfortunately, the weather man changed his pattern this year and gave us lots of snow.

Albert

akrus · February 2001

wlp2:

(2) Can the air bag warning stickers on the sun visors be removed?

I believe these stickers are silk-screened, so they would be very difficult to remove, and I'm not sure that your visor would look 'factory' afterwards. I think some damage to the finish would occur.

(3) Is there a chrome grill available to replace the black one?

I've only seen stainless steel mesh grilles, ala Jaguar XJR. Very nice, but very expensive (~$400US)

(4) Has anyone had trouble with the radio station settings "jumping around" after setting?

I think you have a definite problem here.

(5) Can the steering wheel radio station selector be made to go through all of the buttons instead of just toggling through the 3 settings on one specific button?

If you mean the rocker switch that is to the side of the switches for volume/media/mute, then I think you have another problem. My switch goes through all the station presets on whatever band the radio is currently on (AM/FM1/FM2) or changes the track of the current CD in the changer. I actually would prefer this rocker to perform 'seek' functions rather than go through my presets.

(6) Does the car need to be undercoated? The salesman didn't ask me and I didn't think about it at the time. I live in Maryland, so we get salt during winter.

The manual for my LS states that no undercoating is required or recommended. I'm in Southern Ontario, so the salt thing crosses my mind as well, but as I never keep a car more than 2 years, I've decided it isn't needed in my case. I think you need to do what the manual says since, if you had a problem with bushings, brake lines, hoses, etc. the manufacturer could say it's not covered under warranty due to the unercoating.

(7) Just curious why the lower grill is in two parts - 2/3 and 1/3. Why not a solid piece or otherwise 50:50?

It was posted, quite a few hundred messages ago, that the small, removable grille piece might have something to do with the European habit of having extraction hook up points readily available for when a tow truck needs to pull a car out of a ditch.

(8) In an earlier post, Keyrow mentioned Zaino wax. Tell me about it. I thought nothing could top Zymol!

I've also heard good things about Zaino, but never used the product. I have used Zymol and do like their products. Zymol users that convert to Zaino never seem to list which Zymol it was they've used. This makes me wonder whether they've used the upper line waxes from Zymol (Destiny, Vintage, etc.) or the 'entry level' (Carbon, etc.) I've used the entry level and high end stuff and believe there is a huge difference not only in price but performance of the different products that Zymnol produces.

Good luck with your new car.

Albert

keyrow · February 2001

Fokrab: (Un)fortunately my wife does know how to drive a manual so you very well may be right about having to allow her to have a turn with MY TOY.

wlp2 and akrus: I used Zymol on my 92 acura for about 8 years and really liked the results until I tried Zaino. Zaino's initial application WILL take an entire weekend but only about 6 hours actual work. AND it will then easily not require another coat of wax for 3 months (that is the part I liked), whereas Zymol usually lasted 10-14 days. Since Zaino is a synthetic wax it does not decompose like "natural" waxes do much like synthetic oils are superior to dino oil. Zaino's shine is also more "extreme," that is, its shine is more intense. If I were to compare it to paint Zaino is gloss and Zymol is semigloss. Personal preference will determine which you like better. Zaino is remarkable on darker colors!

BTW akrus: I began with 2 jars Zymol Creme but didn't really like the results so I moved on to Concours which I used for about 6 years.

For more info check out Zaino's website at www.zainobros.com

Cult member Jim

keyrow · February 2001

Just checked out the Zymol and Zaino sites:

Zaino: $12.95 for 8 oz bottle and $8.95 for pre-lock (to help the wax bond to the paint)

Zymol: Concours $ 180.00 for 8 oz
Destiny $ 525.00 for 8 oz
Atlantique $ 968.00 for 8 oz
Vintage $1650.00 for 22 oz (unlimited refills)

IMHO Zaino shines better, lasts longer and is MUCH MORE inexpensive. "You pays your money and takes your choice."

Jim

sawmill · February 2001

I've had my LS-8 non-sport for one year, and thought a summary might be useful:

Mileage is approximately 11,000 miles.
MPG averages about 23 mpg on open highway, 16.4 on stop and go local commutes.

No rattles whatsoever. No leaks. No window chips.

Paint is dark estate green metallic - still looks factory fresh (including the mild "orange peel" rippling on the side panels that is a Ford trademark :-)). I use less exotic car care than what you guys are into, but wash the car by hand no less than once every 2 to three weeks, using my own procedure. There are no scratches, swirl marks, or other signs of distress - except one supermarket indentation on a door that I think dentmasters can fix).

Handling is better than when new. So are the brakes.

Although the car needed about a week's service time last March when new to isolate and repair a control systems fault, there have been no catestophic problems since. The Advancetrac warning message has come on about three or four times, over the past 9 months, disabling AdvanceTrac, but resets when the engine is turned off, and then back on. The last time I washed the car I checked that the ABS module connector was well seated (this part was the problem a year ago) and I am waiting to see if the warning appears again. It is too intermittant to be diagnosed by the mechanic at this time.

A minor defect in the interior assembly/manufacture baffles my mechanic, and the guys in Detroit have graciously become involved to find a solution.

There are no drones, wobbles, window or sunroof failures, the audiophile 12 speaker set-up w/in trunk 6 CD changer is a dream.

The transmission w/o reflash has been shifting to my satisfaction, after training it. A valet in Vegas had a problem backing it up - due to an unexpected delay in engagement I have gotten used to, or never experienced. Because of that incident, I'll get Mark's new programming reflashed the next time the car is in for regular service.

The seats retun to memory position every time, all windows work, the seatbelts retract properly, steering wheel is still centered and car stops in a straight line. Headlights do not fog, no bulbs blew out, and I do not have seat warmers to comment on.

Car starts within 2 seconds cranking almost every time, occasionally requiring a second try for less than 2 seconds crank. Perimeter alarm works fine, and I can close the trunk, or open doors after it is armed without setting it off. Ambient temp gauge reads outside temperature very accurately (even down to freezing and up to 106+ F).

This forum, LLSOC and the L-M execs have added immensly to the ownership experience.

I'm very pleased. Think I'll keep the car for a while.

eric_ls8 · February 2001

Since I picked up my new "demo 1500 miles)car on 11/00, I have noticed a smell a couple of times a week while the car is running.

It smells like oil drops on the exhaust, various times and doesn't last very long. I have been unable to colloralte or even detect a strong smell from one location.

I have brought it to the dealership a couple of times and they don't see anything underneath or around the engine.

I do drive with my sunroof cracked alot and smell it when I am driving in traffic quite a bit. Have also noticed when i let my car sit for more than 2 days, the problem is more likely to show up.

Any ideas, please email me @ shoquatto@earthlink.net as well.

thanks,
eric

medphys · February 2001

The first work assignment I drew was announcer. It moves pretty fast but the two other guys marking the log with car # and class were up to it and every time I heard the clock "tic" I just look up and read the car and time + any cones. It went quick with 100 cars and I was in grid for the next two heats. I really should have gone F/S, not novice, because the ONLY FS, a '93 blue T-Bird, got bumped to AS because he was the only one in class. The Novice class was the biggest at 37. It was a short course witrh one 3 cone slalom, a box, sweeper and two straights about 300'. I improved my time, each time, and drove with the Delta SCCA chapter's senior guy, Sid. He was very helpful. He drove the LS the 2nd run and although improving on my 37.937 with his 36.898, he hit a cone. My other runs were 36.579, then 36.003. I think I was going too fast at some points and could have run smoother. The pre race course walk x3 was REAL helpful and allowed me to replay my strategy constantly in my head. A course map was provided, and one loop eliminated after running a BP 'vette , hitting cones. No one could recover the cones fast enough so a double loop was eliminated for safety...good move. Most of the FS cars were Camaros, Cobras and the T-Bird...no Beemers today. The LS felt great, I was just using too much power really. The T-Bird guy didn't think I would ever be competitive in class against the Camaros and Mustangs. Maybe not...but I'm going to the next driving school, with my wife (who was there and wants to drive), and the next autocross in March. The LS is a smooth car and I hope I can get to be a better driver so I can use it more efficiently. It was great fun. The LS is a very capable car. The 36.576 was with ATC on, by mistake.

Who else races the LS in SOLO II, what have your results been? I'd really like to know. BTW, I went right to the airport after the track, picked up a client, and in American Luxury, I might
add. Quite a versatile car!

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

I am enclosing an email I received this morning from Jason Taylor. I am copying it here in its entirety along with one of the pictures he sent along. The others will be posted on LLSOC.

Thank You Lincoln LS Engineers. Your design allowed them to survive. Brian

=================================================

I joined the llsoc just about 2 weeks ago bragging what a terrific vehicle the LS I have is. Well reality came to grips on what a perfect and precise vehicle this really is. Just 3 days ago I had a Honda Civic pull into my path at 50 mph. As you will see with the enclosed pictures, that I hope you will post, the crumple zones, airbags, motor mounts, and everything made to take the force of impact held up and did it's job perfectly. I have a small scrape on my head and bruise on my left hand, and my wife has a banged up knee, and just a couple of bruises on her arm. I sell new Lincolns, Fords, and Mercury's, and all the training I received at the numerous meetings I attended about the safety built into the LS right before they came out came to show me that this car is definitely for real. Please share this story as well as the attached pics with anyone you want.

Thank you,

Jason Taylor

p.s The estimate for repair was right at $26500

target=_blank

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

I've posted them on LLSOC. I haven't had a chance to properly link them to the navigation bar yet so here is the link: www.llsoc.com/ls_crash.htm
Brian

akrus · February 2001

keyrow:

The price for Zaino seems absolutely wonderful. I wonder how Zymol can stay in business?

The prices you quoted are quite a bit higher than I got from http://store.zymol.com/zcat/ShopXpress?SHOWALL=1
Concours you=180 site=149.99US
Destiny you=525 site=444.60US
Atlantique you=968 site=822.80US
Vintage you=1650 site=1350US
I realize these are still not inexpensive, but the prices are quite different. Are your figures in US dollars? Where did you get your prices?

As I have absolutely no experience with Zaino, I need to ask how many applications does an 8oz bottle of Zaino provide?

The entry level Zymol would provide appoximately 30 applications per 8oz container if applied correctly. The Destiny, Concours and Atlantique would go even farther as they are applied even thinner. One thing that many people don't know about is the Zymol sampler kit http://www.zymol.com/samplers.htm which gives the purchaser the opportunity to try the expensive line at a much more affordable price. This is how I got to try the higher line of Zymol.

At one time I was an automotive detailing fanatic. That's when I got into Zymol, then I started to race my Camaro which left me no free time to be polishing a car. After the Camaro, I bought a truck, which was just too damn big and too white for me to care about waxing. Now, with the LS, I'm so busy with work and golf that I don't wax my car at all. I send it in to the local detail shop a couple of times a year for detailing and about every other week to get it hand washed.

Just like anyone else that earns a paycheque I appreciate a good deal. However, I become a bit skeptical when it's 'too good of a deal' Like you said in your reply to me "You pays your money and takes your choice." Mind you, for the price of the Zaino line, you can take a chance without much risk.

In the end neither one of these is for people that want a 'wash-n-wax' finish. As you know, both are quite labour intensive.

Albert

zeb4 · February 2001

I own a LS 2000 V6 with the manual transmission;Have had it for 1 year, 22000 mi.
Am having cruise control problems as follows:
1. Turn "ON", Press "SET",no light or engagement
2. Turn "ON", Press "SET", light blinks,goes off,no engagement
3. Turn "ON", Press "SET", light comes ON, no engagement (speed hold)
4.Turn "ON", Press "SET", light comes ON,engages and works properly
5.When working properly,and disengaged by braking,does not respond to "RESET"
Mechanic replaced "servo"; Problems persist.
These problems appear to be temperature sensitive.When leaving a heated garage...no problems.When parked outdoors (MN winter)it takes driving 10-15 minutes (when under
hood temperature rises )before the cruise will finally
engage and function normally.
Would appreciate some feedback.

keyrow · February 2001

Albert, I quoted retail prices listed on the zymol.com site and are in US$. I find I get 15-20 applications from an 8 oz bottle of Zaino, but then I know I apply too much at a time. The instructions say if you can see what you are applying then you are applying too much. But it is easier to put on a little extra to see a slight film than keeping track of where you have already been. BTW just like the LM people here, when you e-mail or phone Zaino, Sal Zaino himself usually answers!

If you wish to continue this discussion I suggest you e-mail me directly at james.nasuta@uc.edu so as not to tie up a great site with off topic items. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have or relate my personal experiences.

Jim

slunar · February 2001

Albert - Thanks for your comments on the snow tires, the C&D 16" solution was interesting since I don't recall anyone on this site saying they did that.

Yes I'm well aware of the problems with high grip tires in the snow. My non-sport LS has a set of GoodYear Eagle GT+4's on it. My dealer put them on in place of the FireHawks in an attempt to solve my vibration problem. The GT+4's tread pattern is that of blocks. They are very noisy on dry pavement. In the snow they are absolutely the worst tires I have experienced since I had a set of Goodyear Wide Oval bias ply tires in 1972. My LS is an absolute danger to drive on snow or ice with them, much worse than last winter with the FireHawks.

I think you may have been the LS owner who had your LS do a 180 on you for no apparant reason. It almost happened to me a month ago. Fortunately I caught my LS and staightened it out but I swear I was at a 45 degree angle on a country road that had stone walls on both sides. I've learned to be extra careful since that episode as the slighest touch of the gas on a slipery road kicks the rear end to the right. I haven't bought snows as I usually can drive a different car in bad weather. Last week I got caught in a real heavy (and unpredicted) snow squall which has me thinking about winter tires.

sawmill · February 2001

slunar - does your non-sport have advancetrac?

ls1bmw0 · February 2001

For anyone who is looking at getting a wood trim kit, I've negotiated free shipping from www.woodtrim.com for LLSOC members who mention www.llsoc.com in the comments field of their on-line order form. Their official name is Joshua Tree Wood Trim Company and they have quite a large assortment of wood varieties for the LS as well as carbon fiber. Thanks to the forum posters who steered LLSOC towards them. Here is a reply from Mike Smith the owner.

================================================

Are you aware that our LS kit is a "factory match" that adds to without replacing what came from the factory? They look great but they do not replace the factory trim. Just wanted to make sure you understood that.

http://woodtrim.com/catalog_detail.cfm?prod=3756 (link for the diagram)

notice these pieces add to without replacing

We offer three different options for the 2000 model

==============================================

Brian

johnnylinc · February 2001

I took a fairly lengthy (for me--not for SOME of you folks!

) trip over the weekend; 560 miles from Austin to Dallas, then to north of Ft. Worth, back to Dallas, and back to Austin. It's my first significant run since taking delivery in September, and the LS was GREAT.

Most of the drive was on IH-35 with the cruise control set at 78, with the rest mixed among in-town, freeways, and secondary roads. I bucked a brisk headwind on the way up and ran in light rain most of the way home, and the car was absolutely rock-stable. No vibrations, no noises, no fuss, no muss; I couldn't be more pleased with the way this car feels.

I've never been a Firestone fan, but the stock tires performed flawlessly; after just under 6k miles, I haven't found anything to complain about tire-wise. My LS spent its first two nights outdoors in the hotel parking lot; at 7 AM Saturday with the outside temp at 21 F, it fired right up with no hesitation, just as I expected.

Three hours behind the wheel left me with no discomfort; the seats and driving position are outstanding, and I could've easily gone twice that far without fatigue; my passenger was quite pleased with her accommodations as well.

The only minor quibbles? Some of the streets in north Dallas (Midway, for example) have expansion strips that generate quite a "thump" through the Sport suspension; mildly annoying, but not a big deal. The cold weather probably magnified this.

The biggest disappointment was that my gas mileage was only 20.9 MPG with the interstate portions barely reaching 22. My '96 Mark 8 LSC routinely returned 23-26 MPG on this trip; I was hoping to at least equal that in the LS. Maybe it'll improve, but I'm not optimistic--I imagine that the car is fully broken-in at the 6,000 mark.

All things considered, the LS is a wonderful highway runner; it's easy to see how you could hop into it for a cross-country trip without hesitation.

(I came within a hair's-breadth of getting my first speeding ticket in 33+ years of licensed driving; the two cars in front of me on the way out of Dallas yesterday BOTH got nailed. I managed to sneak by. Guess it's just clean living.

)

Note to the fine folks at Lincoln: Thank you again, and PLEASE keep doing what you're doing!

johnnylinc · February 2001

With the unexpected demise of GoPlay, my old Email addy of johnnylinc@goplay.com is no longer functional. You can find my new address in my Edmunds profile and in the LLSOC registry.

Lincoln LS

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