Lincoln LS

brunobus · February 2002

On mine, both parts died at the same time.

They did have an upholstery shop repair mine, both times since the original one they installed did not work (and guess what, no one bothered to test it).

Bruno

airwolf1000 · February 2002

Guys, At least al of you that have 01 and 02's Please go to the New Car Listings here on Edmunds and enter your consumer rating for the LS. Currently they have it at a 6.7 on a 10.0 Point Scale. Someone put in a 4.0 based on having 4 regulators replaced on his car ( Although I Feel his pain) I feel the LS deserves a better rating. Lets get the Consumer Rating on the LS UP!!!

Regards,
Airwolf

sclark8 · February 2002

Well, I wrote my review 30 minutes ago and it still has not appeared on the site.

I cannot believe the guy that wrote his tires were not inflated properly, defective wiper switch, and he gave it a 4. All dealer issues and he berates the car. Go figure.

Another gives it a 6 because his battery went dead after he washed it.

Still another says his mercury sable is better than the LS and gives the LS a rating of 4.

...scratching my head in disbelief.

stanfree · February 2002

I am having "LS Withdrawl." I been out of town of business and missing my LS very badly.

Question: Does the back of the seat heat? I don't think my does. I have an 2001 V-6 sport.

johnnylinc · February 2002

I hope this is an anomaly and not a trend. After 16 months with no problems, my wipers conked last month, and now I have another problem. The sound system selector switch on the back of the steering wheel, which is supposed to change radio stations and CD tracks, has altered its function. When I press it down, it still changes stations, but when I press it up, it increases the volume. Ack! The other function buttons still seem to work OK.

I recall that other people have had similar problems, but I don't remember if those problems were exactly the same as mine. I also seem to remember that the fix required replacement of the radio unit--the problem isn't actually in the wheel switches.

Can anyone shed light or recount their experiences? I didn't find a TSB that addresses this condition.

Thanks,
JLinc, LLSOC charter member

scottc8 · February 2002

Yes, they're heated. It's hard to tell because usually you're wearing a coat which insulates you from the backrest. Try it without a coat on.

The fault was corrected around Jan. 1, 2001, IIRC, so the problem is primarily with earlier build '00s.

Scott
LLSOC Member

Kirstie_H · February 2002

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

ezaircon4jc · February 2002

I had a similar problem and the radio is causing the malfunction. After my dealer replaced the switch, and that failed to correct the problem, they replaced the radio and all worked well. That is, until I fried the left channel with my poor amp wiring job.

BTW, anyone know which wire I can use for the amp trigger that also allow the amp to stay on with the radio during the "delay" when you remove the key? I am currently using the lime coloured wire at the back of the radio and it is just a switched power source.

Mike
LLSOC Charter Member

johnnylinc · February 2002

Mike,
Thanks for the feedback; I thought I remembered it happening to others. I just went for a drive, and mine, of course, is working again.

Did yours just conk out, or was it intermittent? If so, did it eventually fail completely?

Sorry, I don't know the answer to your trigger question. I know someone who might know, though; I'll check w/him and see.

JLinc
LLSOC charter member

ezaircon4jc · February 2002

It was intermittent at first then failed completely. Oh, yea, the switches wouldn't light with the headlights, also.

Mike
LLSOC Charter Member

pnewby · February 2002

My '00 LS/8's airbag indicator light started flashing for a minute, then staying on when I left work Tues. Anyone else seen this?

ezaircon4jc · February 2002

That happened to a guy at work. He had a wiring harness replaced and all's well.

stanny1 · February 2002

My air bag light started to stay on in January. I took it to the dealer and the car was kept for 4 days. They diagnosed the problem as a bad wiring harness and replaced same. When I went to pick up the car (after hours), the light stayed on and has to this day. To me, wiring harnesses are static. They are very unlikely to fail unless some fusible link blows. More likely some G-sensor has failed, which is probably more likely due to the cornering forces I generate (HA!). But I will take it in again at "service time" for another try. IMHO, the diagnostic procedure for this system is not quite refined yet. It's like "Let's try this next" and see if the light goes out. And my dealer is the largest in Calif. Sounds like I need to try Rancho LM (Brian's dealer)! One former LS owner who used to contribute to this forum said the air bag light was a continual problem on his car. Of course, I can always put a self-adhesive "dot" over the light.

2000lsv8 · February 2002

I recently bought a 2000 LS V-8 that originally came with 16 inch rims with 215/60/16 tires. They are 26.157 inches tall. They where replaced with 235/45/17 tires. They are 25.326 inches tall. The Sport models come with 235/50/17 tires which are 25.252 inches tall. Is there a speedometer gear that I can change so that my car speedometer is correct or close to it. Right now it is about 6-8 mph to fast.

Thanks,Eddie

stanny1 · February 2002

The speedometer is fed off the abs sensor at one or more wheels. The diameter of your tires will effect the speedometer reading, but I have my doubts that there is any way to "adjust" for different diameter tires.
Maybe Mark has the answer for that question.
I think my stock tires give a high speed reading also. Did you have your speedo tested?

akirby · February 2002

Actually the 235/50/17 OEM tires are 26.252 inches tall, not 25.252. They're almost identical to the 215/60R16s (not by accident). The 235/45/17s are off by about 3.5% which should only be about 2 mph at 60. How are you measuring your speed to think that it's off by 6 or 8 mph??

If you did need to adjust it you would have to change it in the computer, which would require a "tech tool" computer interface.

lobsenza · February 2002

The wire you are looking for is the retained accessory power wire...one that maintains power after the key is shut off until the door is opened. I have a shop manual and could not figure out which wire it is. I would appreciate some help if anyone knows the answer....

lolaj42 · February 2002

This very question was asked on the LLSOC site some time ago. Unfortunately, I do not recall the specific answer, but I do recall that some adjustment can be made in 2000 MY LSs but NOT in 2001 MYs. I do not recall the reason, but I would suggest you seriously consider taking a look at the llsoc web site. I think the discussion was under the master mechanic area on the llsoc discussion board. I'll look for the answer when I get a chance.

Chris - LLSOC Charter Member

scottc8 · March 2002

Didn't our resident Master Technician once mention that the LS speedometer reads 3-4 mph faster than actual speed at around 50 mph? IIRC he said this was typical of Ford products. My experiences driving past the portable radar units sometimes placed at interstate construction sites bears this out (I have stock tires). Not that these little trailer things are the last word in accuracy, but it's consistent, anyway.

Scott
LLSOC Member

drolds1 · March 2002

According to my Magellan hand-held GPS receiver, the speedo is off by about 1-2½ MPH over the entire range. At 50, it's almost right on the money, maybe 1 MPH off. It's even fairly close at 140 MPH, as Chris (lolaj42) will attest:)

Of course, the the GPS isn't 100% accurate either, but the latest satellite technology is accurate within about 5 feet, so it's darn close.

At any rate, with 245/17's, I doubt it's 6-8 MPH off.

Artie
Charter Member, LLSOC

2000lsv8 · March 2002

Okay, after checking a site that does tire size comparisons my see that it is off much less that I thought. However, for every mile I go my odometer will show 1.04 miles. That may not sound like much, but after 10,000 miles that's an extra 400 miles on the car. Brian from llsoc.com website has told that Lincoln dealers have a WDS tool that can reset my speedometer correctly. Does any one know of a Ford or Lincoln dealer here in South Florida that has this tool? Does any Ford dealer use this tool like a Lincoln does? any information will help.

Thanks, Eddie

ezaircon4jc · March 2002

Did you go to tire rack and compare the actual rpm's per mile. I installed 245/45/17's on mine and the difference from stock is 16 revs per mile. That's what, 33 extra feet per mile? Also, somewhere the Miata club has a tire calculator.

sclark8 · March 2002

I posted a review of the 2001 LS on Edmonds New Vehicle Pricing, consumer review section two days ago and as of this post, it still has not appeared.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2001/lincoln/ls/index.html

Since both the 2002 and 2001 Consumer Reviews are at 6 out of ten and there are very few Consumer reviews posted, I am smelling a rat. From the activity in this group, you would think there would be a lot of reviews of the LS.

Do you think it is too far fetched to think Edmunds is using the Consumer Reviews to bolster its BMW biased rating of the LS? Does it take over 2 days to post a consumer review to Edmunds new car pricing?

A friend of mine posted a review, a very positive one and it has not been posted either.

Scott
LLSOC Charter Member

ls1bmw0 · March 2002

Either I'm missing something or they are cycling through their reviews because I posted one a couple of days ago and also haven't seen it. And the reviews that I did see the other day aren't the same two that I see today.

sclark8 · March 2002

Another nit...

When you go to the bottom of the New Car Pricing, it asks you if have considered other makes. The choices are Acura TL, Audi A4, Audi A6, and BMW 3&5 series.

When you click Acura TL or Audi A6 it gives you the option of comparing a Lincoln LS but the other 3 do not give you the option of comparing a Lincoln LS.

Every single other choice asks you to compare to a BMW. I guess the BMW is the only car worthy to be compared, in the opinion of Edmunds even though the cars are in different classes.

...still wondering how many Consumer Reviews have been deleted or lost in cyberspace. I thought a Consumer Review was supposed to reflect the views of the consumer and not the editorial staff of Edmunds.

ls1bmw0 · March 2002

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11282&make_id=trust

cb44 · March 2002

Maybe sclark8 is really Oliver Stone ;-)

akirby · March 2002

We talked about this awhile back (keypad on vehicle, not keyfob). I recently saw a new Explorer. It had a keypad built into the black section of the driver's door (B pillar). The keys were small and the entire thing was black so it blended into the black B pillar very nicely. Seems like a nice alternative mounting area that would also work just fine on the LS. Next time you see a new explorer check it out.

lolaj42 · March 2002

I agree with your assessment on the keypad on vehicle keyless entry system. I'm not fond of the big, black, ugly keypads that seem to slapped on the side of vehicle. While the feature may prove to be quite convenient for some, I've never had a "need" for it, and would otherwise skip it becuase of it's usually ugly appearance. If the keypad could be placed in a more obscure location, such as the blacked-out B-pillar, or underneath/integral with the door handle, I might be inclined to change my overall opinion of this feature.

Chris - LLSOC Charter Member

scottc8 · March 2002

Chris, I couldn't agree more. I see them on the other Lincoln models at the dealer and I think of a K-Mart briefcase lock. I too was thinking of a flip-up door handle with the keys on the underside. If two bright guys like us have the same idea it must be a good one, eh?

Scott
LLSOC Member

eor2 · March 2002

Thanks to whoever gave the heads up on the Edmonds LS review board. Submitted one tonight. If it gets posted, it will move the average up. I am one of those who have had almost zero problems with the car. Engine sensor replaced, great dealer service. As many have said, it is just plain fun to drive, performs great, and even impresses my 20 something kids. Now if I could just find the time to go to a Mania event and drive the course!

sclark8 · March 2002

Actually, I thought I would post some facts about the reviews that Edmunds feels are so unbiased. Look at the letters to the editor section to see the same complaints.

I obviously do not agree and feel it is a disservice to post Consumer Reviews when they obviously are picking and choosing the posts.

For example, look at the 2001 BMW 5 series and you will see that they have 10 reviews posted almost all 10's but when you look at the LS it has 4 posted even though Town Hall members here have posted their thoughts.

As a previous BMW owner, it is not pointed out how much maintenance costs and how terrible BMW reliability is in reality.

Scott :-)

atlantasteve · March 2002

I purchased a 2000 V-8 with 12000 miles. After nearly 2 years of driving and 46,000 miles, I am disappointed with its reliability. The car has had problem with the gas tank, leaky aftermarket sunroof, heated seats, window regulator, oil leak, muffler, overheating.

I am considering doing one of the following:
(1) ESP for 3 years;
(2) Trade in for 2002 model; or
(3) Buy a BMW, Audi or Volvo. (Cadillac CTS is out b/c same concerns as first year LS).

Any suggestions?

lobsenza · March 2002

Wait for the 2003 if you can...it will be worth the wait from what I hear. it will not be a completely new model, but will have many good revisions. I own a 2002 (I couldn't wait) and am very satisfied with it.

ronniepooh · March 2002

Sounds like youve had an unusual, well above average # of issues with your 2000 model. A 2002 model will more than likely give you greater reliability, almost guaranteed. You should be able to get a greeeaaat deal on a 2002 model right about now. I think someone mentioned that Lincoln is offering great financing deals now. Or, you could wait until the 2003 models arrive in the fall, as they are rumored to have a few new items, refreshened look, and more power. But its doubtful you will be able to get any sort of great financing incentives or great deals on them, as they will be new, hot popular, and in pretty good demand, as all new or freshened models are. But personally, I would stick with the LS. I had a BMW for 7 years, loved it, but pund for pound, dont think they have anything over the LS.

travelbill · March 2002

go and take a look in the Edmunds review section under the future models section for 2003 and you can see what is in store for the V8. Might be worth the wait. Also check out MotorTrend's article referenced in an earlier post this week.

lateralg · March 2002

Good point(s)

There's probably never been more car/$ in a luxury sport sedan than the 2002 Lincoln LS today.

akirby · March 2002

I, too, posted a LS review yesterday. But about the 5-series - if you look at the 2002 5-series there are only 3 reviews with an average of 6.3. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conspiracy (yet). I'm leaning more towards software problem or sheer incompetency. I wonder how they'll review the 2003 which hopefully addresses all of their silly complaints.

akirby · March 2002

Assuming you otherwise like the car, I wouldn't hesitate to get a new one. Unfortunately the 2000s had more than their share of problems. I knew that was likely when i bought mine and chose to go ahead rather than wait another year. And I'm glad I did. The 2001 was better and the 2002 improved even more as the early problems were corrected. If you want a great deal then get a 2002 later this year. If you want the latest and greatest wait for the 2003. There simply isn't a good alternative without going much smaller or much more expensive.

Atlantaallen

akirby · March 2002

one more thing - don't blame the leaky aftermarket roof on Lincoln. I haven't heard of a factory roof leaking yet. Get the factory moonroof next time.

Did you by chance get yours at Frank Jackson? They tried that spiel on me (it's just as good as the factory roof) but I ordered mine. They seem to like to order them without and add them as needed. My main objection was that it wouldn't work the the global open and close feature.

pat · March 2002

Hi folks,

I confess I don't know a lot... er make that anything ... about how the consumer reviews are posted. Any of you could email the Town Hall Consumer Services Manager, Jonah Brown at jbrown@edmunds.com with your questions. If he doesn't know the answers, he'll find out.

Let us know.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

goodyrl · March 2002

I need to get snow tires or not drive

lateralg · March 2002

Would a few of you post RPM vs. MPH, indicating axle ratio if you know it, and tire size?

slowdriver · March 2002

Just came back from 5 days in New York and am glad to be driving my LS again, the rental car I had was too sloppy, front wheel drive... need I say more.

Much to my surprise, I could not rent an LS at JFK airport from Hertz, I was told they are not available. So much for the Prestige collection.

I was in the Larchmont, Rye, & Greenwich areas (very high demographics) and did not see a SINGLE LS, unbelievable. Plenty BMWs, MBs, Audis, Lexi, etc.....

Perhaps this is why the current New York LS promotion is $399 per month (36 months) lease for an LS-8 with a moonroof with $2199 down. This is a great deal, effectively $475 a month or more than $100 less than I am paying, and I don't have a moonroof.....

The local TV commercial I viewed was not enticing and the one Lincoln dealer I happened to drive by looked terrible.

A serious marketing effort is needed here by Lincoln.

slowdriver · March 2002

I think Lincoln made a mistake leaving the keypad off the LS. The orignal reason given for excluding it was that the Car was going to be sold in Europe where the keypad is not standard. I had a keypad on my prior Lincoln and it was neatly recessed under the door handle, not obtrusive at all. It is very helpful when your hands are full or the car wash attendant locks your keys in the car. When this happened to me, It took a carwash manager only 10 seconds to unlock the LS door with a coathanger.... so much for security..

Now I carry a second key in my wallet and hope I don't leave my wallet in the car.

scottc8 · March 2002

2900rpm @ 90 mph, 2375 @ 75. Slight discrepancy there, some gauge error perhaps, or my mistake in judging parallax error reading them. I believe the axle ratio is 3:31. '00 V8 Sport, built 5/00.

goodyrl, snow tires are not going to drag your LS through a 9 in. depth of snow. Nor will a supposedly superior FWD car manage that. If you mean a snowfall of 9 inches, and roads have been packed down by traffic, come on. Friday I did my usual 45 mile commute after an 8 in. overnight snowfall, an inch of ice underneath, on the Firehawks. Slow? You bet. 85 minutes as opposed to the usual 50, but nothing goes fast through that. If I had to do that more than 4-5 times a year, I would certainly put snow tires on the LS, but not expect a radical improvement.

I really don't mean to pick on you, but your post raised a pet peeve of mine: the idea that LS is a poor snow car due to RWD, usually an opinion aired by people that don't know how to drive in winter weather to begin with. I have owned 4WD, FWD and RWD vehicles and driven them in snow for 30 years. Maybe I'm the Best Winter Driver in America, but that's doubtful since the Authorities haven't shown up with the Award yet.

The LS is the best 2WD vehicle I have ever driven in snow or on ice. I'll admit that, all other things being equal, FWD is better than RWD. But in terms of balance, handling response, and steering precision, they are NOT equal. Add the superbly engineered AdvanceTrac, TC that operates only when and as much as needed, and this is a very competent winter car.

End of tirade. Now putting away the soapbox & pouring the rest of the coffee down the drain.

Scott
LLSOC Member

jerry2281 · March 2002

Does anyone know exactly how the Ford X-Plan works regarding discounts on purchases and leases?

joe166 · March 2002

is the plan used to permit Ford suppliers and contractors to buy cars at a discount. It is not as good as the A plan for employees. Your contact within Ford can generate a number for you pretty easily. It is usually your SS Number plus a pin number. With it, the dealer is supposed to sell or lease you the car at a certain price (and frankly I forgot what the discount was). I bought my 2000 LS with an X plan discount and it was an excellent deal, but I am pretty sure that others could also have gotten the same deal with shrewd bargaining. The benefits are that there is no haggling. The number is put into the computer and the price is revealed to the dealer. The dealer gets some incentive from the factory to participate and I understand they are not supposed to refuse, but they have their ways.

Not all cars are available. When I bought my LS, the Mercury Villager was off limits. Right now, I believe that Thunderbirds are off. This is best for "hot" cars when the demand is on high. Worth investigating, but not worth losing a lot of sleep over, IMHO. I wish I could remember the details, but it was a long time ago.

tlahaye · March 2002

We're A Plan customers (which helps explain 8 new Ford products in 16 years). I still bought my LS used, as I didn't want to commit that much money without some long-term driving and ownership experience. It didn't take long, and my next one will probably be new.

A and Z Plan customers pay a few % less than invoice, and X Plan customers pay a few % over invoice. That's a good deal, but Joe166 is correct---shrewd bargaining can probably get you to the X Plan price anyway in many cases, especially if you're willing to wait for a special order.

These plans can generate pretty favorable lease rates, as residuals are based on MSRP, but capitalized cost reflects the Plan price.

It is my understanding that dealers are well compensated by Ford to handle "Plan" business, but they will never acknowledge that.

packv12 · March 2002

Just to throw off the lawyers!

I finally saw some of the Bill Ford Jr. ads during a Fox Bonanza, they aren't not too bad except he misses hid grandfather's ideals of the growth of the Company! His great-grandaddy never wanted to consider the future, it was his grandfather, Edsel Ford who had the insight! Remember, his father (William Ford Sr.) was behind the beautiful Mark II.

Nice product placement in the latest episode of the "X Files", neat seeing Dockett driving an LS in North Dakota! More placement might help!

During the same episode, 1959 Caddy Convertible eqated to the new Catera CTS, eh? I mean really, was the 1959 really a new style vehicle, compared to the new CTS? Bad add, but neat implication! It seems that all the eggs are in the basket for the CTS by their campaign, but if it really were that easy . . . .

Maybe it's time for Bill Ford Jr, to take a page from his father and/or grandfather's play book. Be revolutionary in auto production, rather than reactionary.

Just thoughts that don't mesh well with anyone else's interests.

Lincoln LS

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