Speaking strictly for myself, of course, I like reading about people's experiences with "the competition". Less so the statistics and recitals from magazines posted by "armchair enthusiasts". I don't recall any discussions about the LS vs. X that resulted in posts being pulled unless they turned into stupid arguments that had nothing to do with the cars. Most of us are pretty passionate about our Lincolns, but we can discuss or even debate other choices without getting into a * contest.
Please share your thoughts. As long as you don't make personal attacks and keep it civil there won't be any problems. We love our LS' but we're also the first to admit that it's not perfect.
IIRC, he also was interested in a 3-series LS. As suggested, a product line where someone could start at a "3-series" LS, move to a "5-series" LS (the present LS) and then move to a "7-series" LS [a long LS Continental(?)].
Ultimately, Lincoln needs just such a product progression.
Although the Lincoln LS is in the price range of a BMW 3-series, its size is about the same as the BMW 7-series, so with the LS, we're already at the top of the BMW size progression (for the price of the bottom of the BMW size progression). I think that's a great bargain.
I can imagine that some people might still want a larger luxury sport sedan who would provide a market for a stretched LS line with more storage space and even more passenger space. Right now, their only option is to get a Navigator, which is basically a TRUCK!
I never cease to be amazed at the hoards of people who flock to the gigantic SUVs. All I can say is that I'm sure glad I don't have one!
Gee, let's buy a Navigator Sports Utility Vehicle and then replace the wheels with 22" chrome and "ribbon" 35 series tires at a cost of $7000 and then we won't have Utility OR Sport anymore. Not to mention the suspension isn't tuned for tires with no sidewalls and we have to stop and take every speed bump like we had a Civic with chopped springs and added spoilers. But it looks so good that we won't mind that tires last a matter of months. And of course, the dealers have caught on to this and Navigators with 22" wheels have now become the darling mod, replacing the vinyl/landau top as the hot dealer installed profit item for the new millenium. As you pass these lethargic, pathetic 8000 lb road hogs at the intersections and corners of your daily drive, take solace that underneath all that excess sheet metal is a driver that is desperately in need of the driving satisfaction of an LS. Be sure you let him/her see the rear badge of their "little brother" before you disappear.
Anybody done it? Recommend it? Yae or Nae? I went to a local car wash (They do not do them), talked to a coworker and it seems to be a real concern nowadays with everything electronic.
As always thanks for all of your input.
Also, Any opinions on Leasing an LS and Ford Returns at dealer end..
I have not yet done this with my LS, as my current service dealer does not have the equipment. Formerly, I have always had this done regularly (usually at every dealer service visit) on my previous cars (particularly my 1990 300ZX). By keeping the engine compartment clean, it is very easy to spot leaks and other problems early. I never had any problems associated with having this simple maintenance item performed.
Upon my next maintenance visit for my LS, I will again inquire about having my engine compartment cleaned, as it has gotten quite filthy in 2+ years of operation. If anyone has had a bad experience with this, please post the particular issues.
I've always had good luck just using a citrus based cleaner on a slightly warm engine and a hose. If you do it once a year or so it keeps it looking brand new. The citrus cuts right through the grease and grime and doesn't smell bad. And it only costs a dollar or so for a partial bottle of cleaner. I wouldn't use high pressure, though. That could cause some damage.
Waaaay too many electronic parts under there for me. I let the dealership do it once, during a service visit. Since the coolant hose broke under warranty, I asked for and received a free engine cleaning...
It's too bad my hard drive crashed. I had that picture (probably back in this forum's files somewhere) of that Civic with the sewer pipe exhaust. Unreal!
had it done on my 99 SHO (love to clean those intake runners). a couple days later my ICP display for the radio and climate control went dead and had to be replaced.....i think its safe to say the big pressure hoses and all the moisture infected my electrical system......
any experts on engine cleaning in the new millenium? what is the preferred way?
Sounds like one should have it done at the dealership? That way if anything goes wrong they are on the hook... I don't like the sound of that..It might not be me, but still I wish no one ill will or them to take on a semi-live grenade if you know what I mean.
Then again if they offer it does that mean they accept the risk and ask for a profitable rate of return? (I.e. high enough steam clean price)? Then again maybe they know how to do it right, and know the nuances of their particular make vehicles. I wonder.
Many detailers will "Steam clean" the engine compartment for around $75.00 - $100.00 (my price). The first thing we do is to wrap ALL electronics with several layers of Saran Wrap to prevent moisture from getting into them. This step alone can take an hour to do right. Then using a special degreaser and very hot water spray the entire compartment down with a normal garden hose nozzle. We do not use high pressure, although some do, as this MAY be able to force water under the Saran Wrap. But then I guarantee no problems will result from having the engine cleaned or I PAY the repair bill. The high pressure users usually do not offer any guarantee.
Feel free to email me directly if you want/need more specific information.
this? '00 LS8, every option available, 22K miles, $22,000. Completely mint, stored winters, only used for highway trips. I Know the owner and know the history of the car, still has 1yr factory warranty. Anyone know what to expect repair cost wise down the road? Any strange maintenance issues? I'll probably only drive it 5K, maybe 10K per year max.
Well the values don't do it justice really, according to a buddy that works a local Lincoln dealer NADA values: wholesale $23,300 trade $24,100 retail $27,375. Puts me at wholesale with tax and everything. I guess my concern is more with upkeep after the warranty and general reliability down the road. I'd like to keep it a long time. They don't seem to be as valuable around here though. Buddy told me they still have an '01 leftover on their lot with some huge rebate.
Also, how do these do in the snow? I don't really want to drive it much in the winter, but sometimes on long trips I hit snowy areas. Buddy stored it every winter so I have no clue on that.
The '00s are prone to failure of the rear window regulators, and the final corrected part is now in dealers' stock. There was an upgrade to the powertrain control software to correct some automatic shifting problems. The early builds (pre 1-00) had some seat heating element failures. In 11-00 they were recalled to check for proper torque of the ball joint studs after they discovered a tool problem at the assembly plant. All pretty minor, all easily and completely fixable, under warranty.
My '00 V8 Sport has been trouble free for 46k miles, except for one window and one light bulb. I think it's a great snow car. It doesn't snow here (northern Colo.) like it does in the Great Lakes area, so mine does fine with the all season Firestones. And after 18 months of ownership and 90 mile/day commuting, it's an absolute daily pleasure.
Very exciting news indeed. However, they should consider some other name for the series. To me, it's a little too reminiscent of the Bentley Arnage Green label.
Two dealers in Chicagoland are advertising in today's papers a new 2002 LS V-8 for $31,995. One has all-season package, moonroof, Alpine w/6 disc and list of $40,580 for $31,995. The other dealer has a new 2002 V-8, no details about options, for $31,995.
I can't imagine what dealer incentives that Lincoln has for an $8,585 discount on a LS. If I was sitting on the fence about a luxury/sport sedan purchase, this would certainly cause me to jump in with both feet. Makes me wish I had a place for a second LS.
As nice as the 2003 LS will be, this is A DEAL!
Jerry 2001 LS V-8 Sport lessee w/25,000 trouble-free miles
Well, I saw it again today, a silver, non-sport, 2000 model year LS, with an old white haired lady driving it with a fake convertible top in kind of a silver/grey. Finally got close enough to take a look at who sold it, and it was Longwood LM, the dealer that was totally unimpressive and had a poor sales attitude when I went shopping that made me look back (fortunately) at Central Florida LM. So they are the evil ones here, at last it can be revealed, we are all DEVO.
Second comment, what the LS tranny really needs is (well two things, I wish my 2000 had the gear spacing of the 2002) is a sport switch, that would let the thing start in 1st in SST and keep it from shifting to 4th at about 15mph in auto. That would go a long way towards make it perfect, mine works darned well right now, it's running better than it ever has, now if only there was a sport switch, or at least a mod to get it to start in 1st in SST.
JS LLSOC Charter Member P.S. Way to go Brian, great newsletter, great method of delivery, very professional and slick application too.
If you want to start in 1st, you must want a quick takeoff. If you want a quick takeoff, you'll be on the throttle hard. If you're on the throttle >60%, it will start in 1st. The shift is instantaneous; you won't feel a thing.
Mark K. thoroughly explained the reason for the SST setup recently on the LLSOC board. Bottom line is, they saved us the $2000 gas-guzzler tax by doing it this way. And we really haven't given up anything.
I agree with scottc8 that in SST mode a 1-st gear start is easy and natural to achieve. Also, the SST won't upshift to 2nd unless you stop first (or manually shift it up).
That being said, every test report I've seen said they couldn't improve the acceleration times achieved by letting the tranny shift for itself.
The real benefit of the SST is to prevent upshifts during spirited mountain switchback road driving.
When I want to overtake slower traffic in a hurry, I always put it in automatic mode and mash the accelerator. That transmission picks its shift points every bit as well as I can, and leaves me free to think about all the other parts of driving.
"The shift is instantaneous; you won't feel a thing."
Well, not to me it isn't, and if you watch the display on the dash, it takes more time than you think to downshift, particularly if you have to make a hard right into traffic and then punch it, it usually doesn't downshift to 1st because it seems to be moving too fast for the computer to do that by then. I've got the latest flashes too.
Oh, I'm well aware of how it operates, but there is still a noticeable and, IMO, significant lag before downshifting in SST mode. I don't run into it often, but enough that it is still annoying at times, and I would have paid the extra $2K tax if required. That said, I love the tranny, as you say smooth and hard to beat for pure acceleration in auto mode, but a sport mode would have made the car more competitive. Also, the reason SST exists is more than just to stop upshifts, but to let you control downshifts, and I'd like a little more control. I've had the car almost stopped, and before it shifted up to 2nd from 1st have mashed it hard, and there is a not insignificant difference. What kills the car out of the hole is that slight delay (plus our lack of 3:58 rear gears), though it goes like a scalded cat after that and I appreciate the high speed passing abilities more than hole shots these days.
Same as with the Vette/F bodies, with the 6 speeds, I wish there was an override of this feature.
Another thing I've observed, the traction control can really play games when you are getting into snap oversteer conditions, I usually turn it off for aggressive driving. I've had it go tail wags dog too many times as your steering inputs tend to get out of sync with it switching back and forth as to which tire it wants to retard and which it wants to start to let spin slightly. The only times I've almost lost the car in these cases (twice) was with traction control on, and it did not behave intuitively, and this is after years of driving RWD Stangs which had significantly worse handling in all other ways. The car still handles better than a Stang in these situations, it is just a bit counterintuitive after years of driving cars without traction control and with LSDs.
Still, it is an impressive transmission, I just wish it wasn't hobbled by the CAFE kow tow.
I've operated my LS with both SST and non-SST, and found that the only advantage of SST is the ability to control downshifts. The non-SST is every bit as good as SST in controlling upshifts.
The non-SST also allows manual rowing through the gears with the advantage of a first gear start.
Autoweek 4/15/02 issue page 20 reports that to date more than 135,000 S-types have been sold world wide. This looks to me like the W98 car platform is here to stay, given that T-bird has it and future Mustang will use it. Since LS is also almost a worlwide car are there total worlwide sales figures for the last 3 years for the LS? Anyone has that number to compare with the S-type?
And not a properly offset wheel on the market-yet! We with Getrags do feel sympathy for you Auto owners. We are used to finding the right gear and we only have ourselves to blame for poor shifting (as long as you put Redline Synthetic in the Getrag). Swauger - I agree with your comments on Traction Control. Use it in the rain and snow. Turn it off if you want to have any fun. "Snap Oversteer" at Mania 1 with TC on helped me earn the "Cone Killer" Award. TC makes the car go beserk with "corrective actions". Then one tries to "counter-correct the corrections". A real closed loop nightmare. My 2000 Manual has no TC and here in San Diego, I need TC like a fish needs a bicycle. The next few months will be a real opportunity to pick up a new LS Manual. The car may become a genuine collector's item. In ten years people will say "How did you put a Manual in a Lincoln?" and "What's that pedal on the left?"
I understand that for extreme performance driving the automatic traction control will probably interfere. That's why we can turn it off. I don't think this negates the very positive benefit for protection against unexpected slippery road conditions when one is just motoring along, not 'thinking' he/she is driving aggressively. TC can save your bacon during an unexpected loss of traction.
I see a fair amount of similar discussion regarding ABS, especially on motorcycles. People argue that a very experienced rider can stop more quickly without ABS than with it. While this is true under controlled circumstances, such as on a race track, the real benefit shows up during an emergency panic stop, such as when some dumbhead pulls a sudden lefto across your path. You don't have time to assess the road surface conditions to decide how much front brake you dare apply. You just have to apply ALL the brakes you have to the maximum. The ABS gives us the confidence to develop this habit so we'll use maximum braking when we really need it.
A similar argument applies to automobiles with ABS. During a panic stop under non controlled driving conditions, and especially in the presence of water, sand, oil, or leaves on the road, the ABS will stop the car in a shorter distance than most drivers would achieve without it. Under almost all conditions, sliding traction is less than non-sliding traction, and the ABS allows the tires to hook up with non-sliding traction.
Fantastico! is my response to the 400hp LS. And a 6-speed no less. Pardon me for doubting you guys, Jonathon. Way to go.
I just returned today from a week in sunny Mexico! I was based in Puerto Vallarta, but got a crazy idea that I wanted to see Guadalajara and so I rented a car and drove there. Quite an experience, a world of history in that city. Reason for bringing this up is that I saw a car there that sure seemed like it could be a DEW-98 based on the size and shape - it was practically a ringer for the S-Type. It was a Rover 75 (or 7.5). I know Ford owns Land Rover, what about the car division? Anyone know if this might be a DEW-98 car? Sure looked sweet.
Just remember that the article in question about the LS is highly questionable about accuracy, they say we're going to get a 5 L up from a 4.6, last I checked mine was a 3.9 L. Geez, this article was even lower on reality than the Edmunds long term review. ;-) I think the writer totally has no clue about the difference between the Stang/DEW98-lite and the LS platforms. It'd take a bigger shoehorn than I've ever seen to pack a 5.0 under that LS hood, though apparently a small supercharger is possible, aka McClaren.
BTW, just got a nice e-mail suggesting a solution to the 1st gear start-out problem that's so simple I had to do a "DOH!" Start out in D5, floor it, and immediately snap the shifter to SST mode. You'll be in first, and can shift after that manually without the 2-1 lag. Gotta try that today. If you're that hot to get off the line you're hand's on the gearshift anyway.
re:Stanny1 - Thanks for the confirmation, I knew I couldn't be the only one this happened to. So that's how you won the "cone killer" eh? ;-) I have no problems with the LS ABS, it works as well as any I've seen, but if you know how to handle oversteer and don't just scream, cover your eyes, and hit the brakes the TC can dish up some unpleasant surprises. In the rain here, particularly after a long dry spell when we get our fameous Florida "black ice" (weeks/months of accumulated rubber and oil on the roads then a light sprinkle of rain) the TC is definitely a major plus. My old Stang without it, light in the rear end, that was the terror of many a car could get it's headlights sucked out by a moped in the rain.
As of March 31, 2002 the reported North American sales of LS's were 126,568. The actual # of LS's made is a bit higher as the preceeding sales # does not include the relatively small # of sales in the rest of the world. Another 9,000 or so can be added on Wednesday for April 2002 sales bringing up the total # of LS's out in the world to > 140,000.
Stanny, as far as the availability of wheels and other LS accessories go remember that over 50% of the LS's and S-types are leased. Lease drivers are not likely to dump significant $$ into a leased car which makes the accesory market for the LS still pretty small. Since the majority of LS & S-type leases are 3 years (39 mo. for the S-type) a lot of LS's & S-types will be dumped into the used car market over the next 12 months. Someone buying a used LS for $20K is a lot more likely to dump money into wheels or whatever, so expect LS add on parts availability to increase significantly over the next year.
Also stanny, it sounds like you are intimating that the manual will go away in the 2003 LS.
The article said it was a 5.0L derived from the 'automaker's 4.6L Modular V8'. It didn't say the 4.6L came from the LS, just from Ford. This has long been rumoured as a new engine for the 2004 dew98-lite mustang.
I'm only 90% sure that the only Manual LS in MY 2003 will have the MCLaren badge on it. I bet the last Manual has already been made. If anyone has a friend in a dealership, have him/her try to order a Manual LS from the factory. Not one off another dealer's lot but a real factory order. Not that I don't understand LM's position. .5% is an awfully small production volume, and any bucks spent to upgrade the Manual is not justifiable. I find it interesting, though, that LM now considers Cadillac to be it's "natural, domestic rival". Cadillac is talking about putting the Corvette powertrain including Tremec six-speed in the CTS and even mentions the M5 by name as it's target. LM may some serious catching up to do because Lutz at age 69 is not afraid to raid the parts bins and aim at what Ford would consider niche markets. Maybe Bill Ford needs testosterone supplementation because at his age, he thinks old. Lutz has put life back at GM. What's next - a four-door Buick GNX? I'm waiting! Chrysler proved retro sells. The children of the 60's want GTO's again. It's too bad they have to go to Australia to get anything close to it. Thank God there were no SUV's in the 60's. BOOORRRING.
Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln division will join the procession of carmakers looking to spice up their offerings with some serious performance. Senior company officials tell TheCarConnection that Lincoln will launch a 400-horsepower version of the rear-drive LS sedan, most likely in early to mid-2004. It will be powered by the automaker's modular V-8, but in this case, the engine will be upgraded from 4.6 liters to 5.0 liters. It will be mated to the same six-speed ZF gearbox found in the new 388-hp Jaguar S-Type R, according to current plans. Don't be surprised, sources add, to see the high-performance motor show up in other Lincoln products, including the Navigator, Aviator and even the Town Car. There's a contest underway among the luxury division's employees to come up with a name for the new line of products. The current front-runner is "Emerald Series," which refers to the fact that as part of the effort to create a consistent brand "DNA," Lincoln has adopted a black background behind its gun sight logo. The performance models might be visually distinguished by using a green background, along with other subtle body tweaks. As TCC recently reported, Cadillac has its own performance series under development, with a Corvette-powered version of the CTS, tentatively dubbed CTSi, due to debut early next year. McLaren is also doing a hi-po LS of its own, and showed the vehicle at the New York show.
When BMW broke up the company, it sold the Rover and MG car businesses to a British consortium called the Phoenix group for a grand total of ten pounds sterling. (Phoenix also built the old-style Mini for a while before it went out of production.) BMW kept the Riley and Triumph names & also kept the "new" Mini, which was designed under BMW control. Phoenix is now building Rovers and MGs.
The Land Rover sale to Ford happened before the Rover sale; this was during 2000, IIRC. Although the Rover 75 is an attractive sedan, it's not related to the DEW98 platform.
Chicago Tribune reports today that "05 Mustang will be built on LS chassis, have 400 hp and a six speed transmission. They pictured a spy photo of a test mule '02 Mustang with a raised hood, supposedly to clear the supercharger option. If this combo is certified, maybe the LS will benefit from some of the common pieces...or maybe this combo is being developed by LS engineers and the Mustang will benefit from Lincoln cutting-edge technology.
The Mustang should be so lucky to benefit from the DEW98 chassis.
The real point is that with Mustang volume added to a DEW98 platform derivitive and complementary engine development, it should be much easier to make a business case for these enhancements that will also benefit the LS.
With the CTS supposedly having 400 hp by 2004, the LS should be able to continue to exceed the Caddee engineering (besides looking much better).
I hope so (in a good way)! Sharing the platform and, if possible, the enginess, could lead to a great improvement in Fords offerings and a lot of benefit to the LS too. Maybe there the reabsorbtion of Lincoln back into Ford from PAG will will help Ford rather than hurt Lincoln, keeping my fingers crossed anyway.
JS LLSOC Charter Member (who never gets to attend any Mainias
The 2003 Cobra already has a supercharged 4.6L putting out 400 hp so it won't be much of a stretch to get 400 out of the 5.0L version. Should be able to do it with less boost and more of a safety margin - maybe even keep the aluminum block for weight savings. Had to switch to the cast iron block on the 4.6L - Colletti said they blew up 7 or 8 of them before they got it right. Some guys get all the fun!
I think it's great that Ford has stopped playing second fiddle to GM on HP. Now let's hope CAFE doesn't rear it's ugly head again. Speaking of which - does anyone know how the pushrod LS1 and LS6 vette motors do emissions-wise? I just wonder if they're able to continue with pushrods and still meet future emissions requirements. I thought that was one reason Ford ditched their pushrods.
Any speculation where the 2003 LS will be debuted? Are there any major auto shows left between now and November? I assume it will be announced around August/September at the latest. Seems like Lincoln is spacing out their new car introductions - first the TC, then the Aviator and finally the LS - which makes a lot of sense. But with LA, Chicago, Detroit and NY already done this year I wonder where the LS will make it's debut?
Can't remember which one, but one of the many articles that had links posted here last week said the 2003 LS official intro would not be until November.
The 2005 Mustang is supposedly built on DEW-98 "Lite" platform, which is a cost reduced DEW98. I don't think Ford could sustain Mustang sales if it based >$30K. I'd expect the "Lite" platform to loose the fancy forged aluminum suspension bits with stamped steel in place, a big cost savings. A good preview of the 2005 Mustang was in most of the car rags about a year ago. Can't remember the exact name, it was the Mustang 500 somthing or other. It had the front wheels pushed forward like the LS to give near 50-50 weight distribution (longer wheelbase) and I think it used LS like front suspension. The engine was the 5.0L DOHC engine discussed previously.
I think the spaced out new Lincoln model intros have more to due with when they are able to put them into production rather than any master markeing plan. Let's face it Lincoln could use any of the new models right away. It's real curious to me that Lincoln has been so mum on the 2003 LS. They've been talking about the 2003 Town Car since last October, with photos in January but I think the 2003 TC is just getting into production now. Same with a very early preview of the 2003 Navigator and Aviator. Really makes me wonder what's up with the 2003 LS.
Stanny, I suspect that you are right about the end of the manual LS (directly from Lincoln at least). However I'd say that it will be very hard to factory order any 2002 LS real soon, if not already. With the normal order lead times it takes 2 months to get your special order off the end of the line. We're almost in May and I'd imagine that the 2002 LS production line will be shut down at the end of June or in early July to get changed over to the 2003, which I'd guess they would start a pilot run of in late July or early August.
On the other hand I think killing the manual LS is a mistake. Just read another of the endless Lincoln articles (at least Lincoln is finally getting some press!!) about new Lincoln ads to attract younger buyers. I guess they stil haven't figured out that hip product attracts younger buyers.
Comments
Scott
LLSOC Member
Ultimately, Lincoln needs just such a product progression.
I can imagine that some people might still want a larger luxury sport sedan who would provide a market for a stretched LS line with more storage space and even more passenger space. Right now, their only option is to get a Navigator, which is basically a TRUCK!
I never cease to be amazed at the hoards of people who flock to the gigantic SUVs. All I can say is that I'm sure glad I don't have one!
As you pass these lethargic, pathetic 8000 lb road hogs at the intersections and corners of your daily drive, take solace that underneath all that excess sheet metal is a driver that is desperately in need of the driving satisfaction of an LS. Be sure you let him/her see the rear badge of their "little brother" before you disappear.
As always thanks for all of your input.
Also,
Any opinions on Leasing an LS and Ford Returns at dealer end..
Regards,
Victor
Upon my next maintenance visit for my LS, I will again inquire about having my engine compartment cleaned, as it has gotten quite filthy in 2+ years of operation. If anyone has had a bad experience with this, please post the particular issues.
any experts on engine cleaning in the new millenium? what is the preferred way?
Then again if they offer it does that mean they accept the risk and ask for a profitable rate of return? (I.e. high enough steam clean price)? Then again maybe they know how to do it right, and know the nuances of their particular make vehicles. I wonder.
Sounds like a question for Grasshopper?
Regards,
Victor
Feel free to email me directly if you want/need more specific information.
Thanks..
Regards,
Victor
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4848
Yee haw!
http://www.beaterz.com/
Artie
even though its low mile, I'd maybe see if you can get that price down another 10% or so.
check the wholesale trade value versus the retail and try to find an agreeable price inbetween.
the money you save may pay for an extended warranty.
Also, how do these do in the snow? I don't really want to drive it much in the winter, but sometimes on long trips I hit snowy areas. Buddy stored it every winter so I have no clue on that.
My '00 V8 Sport has been trouble free for 46k miles, except for one window and one light bulb. I think it's a great snow car. It doesn't snow here (northern Colo.) like it does in the Great Lakes area, so mine does fine with the all season Firestones. And after 18 months of ownership and 90 mile/day commuting, it's an absolute daily pleasure.
That sounds like a very good deal to me.
Scott
LLSOC Member
I can't imagine what dealer incentives that Lincoln has for an $8,585 discount on a LS. If I was sitting on the fence about a luxury/sport sedan purchase, this would certainly cause me to jump in with both feet. Makes me wish I had a place for a second LS.
As nice as the 2003 LS will be, this is A DEAL!
Jerry
2001 LS V-8 Sport lessee w/25,000 trouble-free miles
Second comment, what the LS tranny really needs is (well two things, I wish my 2000 had the gear spacing of the 2002) is a sport switch, that would let the thing start in 1st in SST and keep it from shifting to 4th at about 15mph in auto. That would go a long way towards make it perfect, mine works darned well right now, it's running better than it ever has, now if only there was a sport switch, or at least a mod to get it to start in 1st in SST.
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
P.S. Way to go Brian, great newsletter, great method of delivery, very professional and slick application too.
"The most well traveled vehicles on the planet."
Makes "Travel well with Lincoln" sound even more creative.
Mark K. thoroughly explained the reason for the SST setup recently on the LLSOC board. Bottom line is, they saved us the $2000 gas-guzzler tax by doing it this way. And we really haven't given up anything.
Scott
LLSOC Charter Member
That being said, every test report I've seen said they couldn't improve the acceleration times achieved by letting the tranny shift for itself.
The real benefit of the SST is to prevent upshifts during spirited mountain switchback road driving.
When I want to overtake slower traffic in a hurry, I always put it in automatic mode and mash the accelerator. That transmission picks its shift points every bit as well as I can, and leaves me free to think about all the other parts of driving.
Well, not to me it isn't, and if you watch the display on the dash, it takes more time than you think to downshift, particularly if you have to make a hard right into traffic and then punch it, it usually doesn't downshift to 1st because it seems to be moving too fast for the computer to do that by then. I've got the latest flashes too.
Oh, I'm well aware of how it operates, but there is still a noticeable and, IMO, significant lag before downshifting in SST mode. I don't run into it often, but enough that it is still annoying at times, and I would have paid the extra $2K tax if required. That said, I love the tranny, as you say smooth and hard to beat for pure acceleration in auto mode, but a sport mode would have made the car more competitive. Also, the reason SST exists is more than just to stop upshifts, but to let you control downshifts, and I'd like a little more control. I've had the car almost stopped, and before it shifted up to 2nd from 1st have mashed it hard, and there is a not insignificant difference. What kills the car out of the hole is that slight delay (plus our lack of 3:58 rear gears), though it goes like a scalded cat after that and I appreciate the high speed passing abilities more than hole shots these days.
Same as with the Vette/F bodies, with the 6 speeds, I wish there was an override of this feature.
Another thing I've observed, the traction control can really play games when you are getting into snap oversteer conditions, I usually turn it off for aggressive driving. I've had it go tail wags dog too many times as your steering inputs tend to get out of sync with it switching back and forth as to which tire it wants to retard and which it wants to start to let spin slightly. The only times I've almost lost the car in these cases (twice) was with traction control on, and it did not behave intuitively, and this is after years of driving RWD Stangs which had significantly worse handling in all other ways. The car still handles better than a Stang in these situations, it is just a bit counterintuitive after years of driving cars without traction control and with LSDs.
Still, it is an impressive transmission, I just wish it wasn't hobbled by the CAFE kow tow.
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
The non-SST also allows manual rowing through the gears with the advantage of a first gear start.
We with Getrags do feel sympathy for you Auto owners. We are used to finding the right gear and we only have ourselves to blame for poor shifting (as long as you put Redline Synthetic in the Getrag).
Swauger - I agree with your comments on Traction Control. Use it in the rain and snow. Turn it off if you want to have any fun. "Snap Oversteer" at Mania 1 with TC on helped me earn the "Cone Killer" Award. TC makes the car go beserk with "corrective actions". Then one tries to "counter-correct the corrections". A real closed loop nightmare. My 2000 Manual has no TC and here in San Diego, I need TC like a fish needs a bicycle.
The next few months will be a real opportunity to pick up a new LS Manual. The car may become a genuine collector's item. In ten years people will say "How did you put a Manual in a Lincoln?" and "What's that pedal on the left?"
I see a fair amount of similar discussion regarding ABS, especially on motorcycles. People argue that a very experienced rider can stop more quickly without ABS than with it. While this is true under controlled circumstances, such as on a race track, the real benefit shows up during an emergency panic stop, such as when some dumbhead pulls a sudden lefto across your path. You don't have time to assess the road surface conditions to decide how much front brake you dare apply. You just have to apply ALL the brakes you have to the maximum. The ABS gives us the confidence to develop this habit so we'll use maximum braking when we really need it.
A similar argument applies to automobiles with ABS. During a panic stop under non controlled driving conditions, and especially in the presence of water, sand, oil, or leaves on the road, the ABS will stop the car in a shorter distance than most drivers would achieve without it. Under almost all conditions, sliding traction is less than non-sliding traction, and the ABS allows the tires to hook up with non-sliding traction.
I just returned today from a week in sunny Mexico! I was based in Puerto Vallarta, but got a crazy idea that I wanted to see Guadalajara and so I rented a car and drove there. Quite an experience, a world of history in that city. Reason for bringing this up is that I saw a car there that sure seemed like it could be a DEW-98 based on the size and shape - it was practically a ringer for the S-Type. It was a Rover 75 (or 7.5). I know Ford owns Land Rover, what about the car division? Anyone know if this might be a DEW-98 car? Sure looked sweet.
BTW, just got a nice e-mail suggesting a solution to the 1st gear start-out problem that's so simple I had to do a "DOH!" Start out in D5, floor it, and immediately snap the shifter to SST mode. You'll be in first, and can shift after that manually without the 2-1 lag. Gotta try that today. If you're that hot to get off the line you're hand's on the gearshift anyway.
re:Stanny1 - Thanks for the confirmation, I knew I couldn't be the only one this happened to. So that's how you won the "cone killer" eh? ;-) I have no problems with the LS ABS, it works as well as any I've seen, but if you know how to handle oversteer and don't just scream, cover your eyes, and hit the brakes the TC can dish up some unpleasant surprises. In the rain here, particularly after a long dry spell when we get our fameous Florida "black ice" (weeks/months of accumulated rubber and oil on the roads then a light sprinkle of rain) the TC is definitely a major plus. My old Stang without it, light in the rear end, that was the terror of many a car could get it's headlights sucked out by a moped in the rain.
JS
LLSOC Charter Member
Stanny, as far as the availability of wheels and other LS accessories go remember that over 50% of the LS's and S-types are leased. Lease drivers are not likely to dump significant $$ into a leased car which makes the accesory market for the LS still pretty small. Since the majority of LS & S-type leases are 3 years (39 mo. for the S-type) a lot of LS's & S-types will be dumped into the used car market over the next 12 months. Someone buying a used LS for $20K is a lot more likely to dump money into wheels or whatever, so expect LS add on parts availability to increase significantly over the next year.
Also stanny, it sounds like you are intimating that the manual will go away in the 2003 LS.
IMHO, the new Infiniti sports sedan is one ugly ********* (you fill in the blanks).
There is nothing attractive about that car, starting from the outside and continuing to the inside.
Lincoln, do your homework and you'll blow this sick puppy away.
If anyone has a friend in a dealership, have him/her try to order a Manual LS from the factory. Not one off another dealer's lot but a real factory order.
Not that I don't understand LM's position. .5% is an awfully small production volume, and any bucks spent to upgrade the Manual is not justifiable.
I find it interesting, though, that LM now considers Cadillac to be it's "natural, domestic rival".
Cadillac is talking about putting the Corvette powertrain including Tremec six-speed in the CTS and even mentions the M5 by name as it's target.
LM may some serious catching up to do because Lutz at age 69 is not afraid to raid the parts bins and aim at what Ford would consider niche markets.
Maybe Bill Ford needs testosterone supplementation because at his age, he thinks old. Lutz has put life back at GM. What's next - a four-door Buick GNX? I'm waiting!
Chrysler proved retro sells. The children of the 60's want GTO's again. It's too bad they have to go to Australia to get anything close to it. Thank God there were no SUV's in the 60's. BOOORRRING.
Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln division will join the procession of carmakers looking to spice up their offerings with some serious performance. Senior company officials tell TheCarConnection that Lincoln will launch a 400-horsepower version of the rear-drive LS sedan, most likely in early to mid-2004. It will be powered by the automaker's modular V-8, but in this case, the engine will be upgraded from 4.6 liters to 5.0 liters. It will be mated to the same six-speed ZF gearbox found in the new 388-hp Jaguar S-Type R, according to current plans. Don't be surprised, sources add, to see the high-performance motor show up in other Lincoln products, including the Navigator, Aviator and even the Town Car. There's a contest underway among the luxury division's employees to come up with a name for the new line of products. The current front-runner is "Emerald Series," which refers to the fact that as part of the effort to create a consistent brand "DNA," Lincoln has adopted a black background behind its gun sight logo. The performance models might be visually distinguished by using a green background, along with other subtle body tweaks. As TCC recently reported, Cadillac has its own performance series under development, with a Corvette-powered version of the CTS, tentatively dubbed CTSi, due to debut early next year. McLaren is also doing a hi-po LS of its own, and showed the vehicle at the New York show.
http://www.thecarconnection.com./index.asp?article=4848&sid=173&n=156
The Land Rover sale to Ford happened before the Rover sale; this was during 2000, IIRC. Although the Rover 75 is an attractive sedan, it's not related to the DEW98 platform.
The Mustang should be so lucky to benefit from the DEW98 chassis.
The real point is that with Mustang volume added to a DEW98 platform derivitive and complementary engine development, it should be much easier to make a business case for these enhancements that will also benefit the LS.
With the CTS supposedly having 400 hp by 2004, the LS should be able to continue to exceed the Caddee engineering (besides looking much better).
JS
LLSOC Charter Member (who never gets to attend any Mainias
I think it's great that Ford has stopped playing second fiddle to GM on HP. Now let's hope CAFE doesn't rear it's ugly head again. Speaking of which - does anyone know how the pushrod LS1 and LS6 vette motors do emissions-wise? I just wonder if they're able to continue with pushrods and still meet future emissions requirements. I thought that was one reason Ford ditched their pushrods.
The 2005 Mustang is supposedly built on DEW-98 "Lite" platform, which is a cost reduced DEW98. I don't think Ford could sustain Mustang sales if it based >$30K. I'd expect the "Lite" platform to loose the fancy forged aluminum suspension bits with stamped steel in place, a big cost savings. A good preview of the 2005 Mustang was in most of the car rags about a year ago. Can't remember the exact name, it was the Mustang 500 somthing or other. It had the front wheels pushed forward like the LS to give near 50-50 weight distribution (longer wheelbase) and I think it used LS like front suspension. The engine was the 5.0L DOHC engine discussed previously.
I think the spaced out new Lincoln model intros have more to due with when they are able to put them into production rather than any master markeing plan. Let's face it Lincoln could use any of the new models right away. It's real curious to me that Lincoln has been so mum on the 2003 LS. They've been talking about the 2003 Town Car since last October, with photos in January but I think the 2003 TC is just getting into production now. Same with a very early preview of the 2003 Navigator and Aviator. Really makes me wonder what's up with the 2003 LS.
Stanny, I suspect that you are right about the end of the manual LS (directly from Lincoln at least). However I'd say that it will be very hard to factory order any 2002 LS real soon, if not already. With the normal order lead times it takes 2 months to get your special order off the end of the line. We're almost in May and I'd imagine that the 2002 LS production line will be shut down at the end of June or in early July to get changed over to the 2003, which I'd guess they would start a pilot run of in late July or early August.
On the other hand I think killing the manual LS is a mistake. Just read another of the endless Lincoln articles (at least Lincoln is finally getting some press!!) about new Lincoln ads to attract younger buyers. I guess they stil haven't figured out that hip product attracts younger buyers.