Lincoln LS

slunar · May 2002

The barrage of LS ads on TV must be doing something. LS sales #'s for April were 3433. YTD 2002, 12,807 LS's were sold which is a 0.3% increase over 2001. While a 0.3% increase may not sound like much, the LS is the ONLY Ford car that has a sales increase in 2002 YTD over 2001.

Unfortuntely, I don't expect the LS to hold the sales increase crown for 2002 as I suspect the revamped 2003 Town Car which I belive is now in production will show some significant sales gains as pent up demand by those waiting for the new TC is satisfied.

eudaxmn · May 2002

I do not know why Lincoln decided to mess with the looks of the LS with the installation of this keypad. I now own a 2000 LS and will be trading it in soon for a 2003 (maybe the McLaren version).
I also own a 01 GMC Yukon XL, in the case of the GMC when I desire not to carry my keys I just simply lock them inside the vehicle. When I decide to return to my vehicle I call On-Star on their toll free number and within 3 minutes or less the vehicle is opened. I beleive that GM had the right idea when On-Star was developed.

I owned a Nissan Quest many moons ago. I never used that darn keypad. I personally have never witnessed anybody ever using it.

Who was the jerk @ Ford that allowed that keypad to be placed on the LS's door.

mkovalsk · May 2002

What transmission problems are you having?

Mark

lolaj42 · May 2002

You have to admit that its rather ironic and silly for a bunch of LS "enthusiasts" to be debating the attributes of a keyless entry system! If that's all we've got to complain about, it must be a pretty darn good car. If, god forbid, I had to replace my '00 MY LS and my only option was another LS with a keyless entry (like it or not), just let me know where to sign!

Having CLOSELY inspected a '03 MY LS at LLSOC Mania 3 this past February, the improvements are readily apparent and well worth the wait if you're on the fence. While I'm less enthusiastic about some of the changes than others, the '03 MY clearly represents another positive step forward for Lincoln. Is there still room for improvement? Sure, there ALWAYS is, but it's not worth wringing your hands over. Keypad aesthetics aside, the '03 will be a winner for Lincoln.

reneleblanc · May 2002

Well, eudaxmn, if you've been reading the posts, you would see input from a lot of people who DID use a keypad, when they had it. It's easy to NOT USE something that is there if you don't want to, but it is impossible to use it when you want to if it ISN'T there.

It isn't a decoration, it is a function. I'd sure rather depend on a simple local keypad to unlock my car (in 15 seconds) than assuming a high-tech satellite connection would let someone far away unlock my car for me three minutes later.

But, I also agree with lolaj42 that all this is a lot of fuss over a trivial issue in comparison with the many major good features and qualities of the Lincoln LS.

That said, if I had a keypad on my LS and could trade it in for dual sun visors, I'd do it in an instant.

leadfoot4 · May 2002

Fortunately, I guess, my rear window regulators haven't yet failed. However, vacation time is coming around again, and I get concerned that they possibly could fail while I'm travelling.
Does anyone have any idea how expensive these units are? If they weren't too costly, I'd consider replacing them myself, and get the problem out of my mind, once and for all.

byebyels · May 2002

I will take it in today they said they will have a car for me. Just seems like it is always something. I have appreciated the loaners many manufacturers/dealers don't do that

akirby · May 2002

Calvin - if you'll give mkovalsk more information on exactly what is happening with your tranny he may be able to help you help the dealer diagnose it. He's trying to help. If you don't want Mark's help that's fine, but don't start griping about it if they can't fix it.

akirby · May 2002

You would rather call OnStar and wait 3 minutes for them to unlock it (which assumes you have a phone and you have reception) than punch in 5 digits? I could see OnStar if you accidentally locked the keys in, but a lot of people leave their keys in the car on purpose (fishing, boating, playing sports, jogging, attending sporting events, amusement parks) - places where you either don't want the keys jiggling in your pocket or you're afraid of losing them. I think OnStar is great and I hope Lincoln follows suit but it's not a substitute for a keypad.

jhoffman61 · May 2002

Hmmm. On the CTS board they are happy about selling 3,506 in a month. The LS sells 3,433 with a model that came out in 1999, not bad.

ls1bmw0 · May 2002

John,

Have you had a chance to install the aluminum dash kit? A couple of folks are curious about what it looks like.

Thanks,
Brian

mtnh · May 2002

Hello, my 2000 V6M has lost its retaining clips that plug the shift boot into the console base assembly, so it now floats about and moves with the shift. The dealer has ordered and received the new boot, which also replaces the knob, all in one piece. I am constrained for time and already missed my first service appointment for replacing this part, and am now curious if anyone has any service info on shift knob removal, which is all that is needed for making the car ready for boot/knob replacement, thereby potentially lowing the number of minutes that I need to spend at the dealership awaiting replacement. Particularly, I am wondering if the old knob just unscrews from the shaft, or if there is any magic hidden retainer that needs to be released to prevent damage. The way I see it, if I can drive the car into the dealership with the shifter ready for a new set of clothes, I can almost keep the car running for the entire service visit, and that spells "good".

Thanks,

Mike in NH

jhoffman61 · May 2002

Brian, too cold in Chicago to do dash kits. It ought to be nice around June :-0 I'm not sure how much of it I want to use but I haven't tried to pre-fit for aesthetics. It'll be a couple more weeks based on available time.

slunar · May 2002

Is anyone else out there having problems telling the latest Japanese sedans apart?

When I see them on the road I can't hardly tell an Altima from a ES-300 from a G35 from a Camry.

scottc8 · May 2002

Exactly, Chris. I still hate the flimsy ashtray. And once I almost crushed something with an ITH.:)

ls1bmw0 · May 2002

On the way home tonight on Ortega Highway (otherwise known as Blood Alley) I had the good fortune to be following a brand-new Porsche Boxster. We had the road all to ourselves. It was a beautiful SoCal spring evening. I was cruising with the windows down, the radio off and in SST (my favorite mode of travel).

He knew I was following and could tell I knew how to drive the curvy bits and I knew that he knew that he could blow me away without too much effort. So we both cruised through, me at about 80%, and him at 60%. The LS followed the curves beautifully and kept up with no ruffled feathers.

It was fantastic. At least until we both got behind a Diahatsu 3-lunger that thought he could outrun us on bicycle tires. So we sat chomping at the bit until he got out of our way and resumed our play.

At the bottom we both gave each other a big grin and a wave of respect. What a blast being able to play with another capable driver and his car!

cdnpinhead, you're right. Great cars aren't and have never been about keypads and isolation. They are about impeccable road manners and the joy of hearing the exhaust rumble as you go up and down through the gears, even if it is an automatic! (At least for me, others will have different opinions

)

Brian

regfootball · May 2002

but the keypad is terribly convenient....right up there with cupholders and a stereo.

stanny1 · May 2002

Brian - with the work you have done to your car, I'm not sure it would that much of a mis-match, unless it had an "S" on the back...even then, the Boxster is not that impressive for over 50k. That's almost a McLaren...

Kirstie_H · May 2002

As we all know, the purchase price isn't all that's involved in the true cost of a vehicle. Check out the article and new tool at Edmunds.com:

True Cost to Own (TCO): Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

m87 · May 2002

Interesting and informative, but really for folks buying appliances like Whirlpool, Honda, and Toyota. In the luxury sports market (pushing $40,000 and up), TCO is going to be largely irrelevant to the majority of buyers (actually lessees). For example, the three year depreciation and finance cost (forget the $1,900 in sales tax in year 1) for my 2002 LS V8 Sport is about $665/month according to your proprietary model. My 3 year lease cost is $250/month less than that including the use tax. With that much initial variance, the rest of the costs are de minimus in determining any vehicle cost per mile. The LS also has three year gratis maintenance and a four year warranty, making any additional costs highly speculative until 5 years out. Indicating 5th year costs on a MY02 vehicle introduced in 2000 is a really neat trick. This may be a great tool for the guy comparing a Civic econobox/appliance to a Toyota econobox/appliance to save the last nickel, but I don't see the point on any driver's car board. Just my opinion.

cdnpinhead · May 2002

Brian -- Thanks for the reality check. I had many of the same thoughts when I ran with some motorcycles in California a couple of years ago.

Once I get the windows all fixed and perhaps get the car repainted, I'll be fine.

While I toy with Audi and Nissan boards, what I actually own is the LS. Key word here being own. Those who lease look at all this differently. Either way, I'm unlikely to change anything unless 1) 2 - 4 more years pass, or 2) the LS absolutely implodes on reliability/useability.

Anyway, my put is that the car is a joy to drive, and those who have the opportunity to actually drive it regularly are at an advantage. Unfortunately, many of us spend a lot of time commuting.

captdavid · May 2002

I just returned from a week's vacation in San Francisco. I find it hard to believe but I only saw one LS in all the time I was there. And I was looking. I was surprised by how many Jag X types and S types I saw. I am really enjoying my 2002 LS manual and after not driving it for a week really appreciate what a fine driving machine she is. And once again, I can not say enough about XMSR. Don't leave home without it!

funkcity · May 2002

Yes a sea of BMWs, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz, Rice Rockets and SUVs etc...
Welcome to California.
Oh I live here (In Southern Cal)too but I was not exposed to the LS until I made a trip back to Detroit in the summer of 2000.
There a dealer in Dearborn had every color and trim option on the lot and out front on display. I test drove a few of them and the seed was sown. (or is that sewn?)
Here the LS is not promoted well and most folks still don't know what it is.
What is also great is that I added value to the ownership aspect by joining the Lincoln LS Owners Club. (LLSOC)A great group of folks with the same love and passion for the car, it's style and engineering. Brian (and Company)does it right and the Mania events are second to none.
California exposure, brand/model recognition are still major issues for the LS on the west coast as I see it.
But if all the high performance LS models come to fruition then that little sleeper we know as the LS will be waking up in a big way ; )

keyrow · May 2002

But your post will be removed (as will this one, both for referring to it and for being "off topic"). The PC police have taken a personal offense to one of the terms you have used. It does not matter that it is no longer offensive to anyone but the elite: who obviously know better than everyone else what should be and should not be permitted in society. Its origin, over 20 years ago, was derogatory and to PC people that is ALL THAT MATTERS. The fact that most people have moved beyond such silliness is inconsequential. Makes one wonder how anyone insisting upon living in the past happened upon computers and the WEB?

Being of Japanese heritage myself, I can testify that EVERY Asian I know considers the Verbotten term a compliment to their "engineering" abilities. Oh well, we cannot dare offend thin skinned individuals, even if there is only one. I have made this point previously, both here on Town Hall and in private emails with the PC police. Basically I was told that the Membership Agreement allowes them to remove ANY post for ANY reason (it does say that), so shut up and go away! Can't allow anyone to provide evidence that is in direct contradiction to the STATE's policies, you know.

Remember: PC RULES!

swauger · May 2002

Well, I understand SoCal is a unique place car wise. Here in Central Florida I see quite a few LS's, more all the time. The place I work at has 4 in the parking lot of one smallish 4 story office building, and I see a fair number on the road. The number has grown noticeably since I got mine in Sept of 2000. Most don't seem to be owned by LLSOC enthusiast types, no waves back, but there are a fair number. Of course, we also have more than our share of blue haired traditional Town Car buyers too this being FL (land of the newly wed and nearly dead), but few of the LS's have had really old folks behind the wheel (the exception being the one with the fake convertible top which was being driven by an older woman). It's almost gotten to where I see more LS's than BMW 5 series, though the 3 series is ubiquitous, as are chopped Hondas and Mitsu's, etc.

JS
LLSOC Charter Member

swauger · May 2002

I agree, Mac's suck....;-)

leadfoot4 · May 2002

What term wasn't PC??

fantom · May 2002

<<<an "S" on the back...even then, the Boxster is not that impressive>>>

Well, I am lucky enough to own both, and I can assure you that while the Lincoln LS is a great sport sedan that I thoroughly enjoy driving during the week; the Boxter, especially the S, is the best sports car, for the money, ever!!!

On a sunny day in the hills, at about 4000 RPM, with the top down, there is nothing in a car that you can do that's more fun....and still pay attention to the road ;-)

ls1bmw0 · May 2002

fantom,

Must be something with LSes and Boxsters. We've got another SoCal member that is set up the same way you are, an LS and a Boxster. He thoroughly enjoys both of them.

Brian

hinkdog · May 2002

It seems the dealers here in the midwest are starting to discount the 2002 LSs by $ 5,000 and up to $7,000. Is there any idea as to when the 2003 will hit the lots. I may have to bite before the 2003 hit the lots. Any info on the 2003 will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

airwolf1000 · May 2002

What about the LS Spy Photos of the 2003? Wasn't there a Porsche Boxster in the Garage?

I have meddled with two Porsche's Myself a slightly older Carrera 4 and a 911 maybe a turbo.

The Carrera 4 and I went into a turn and kiss your heiny loop. He couldn't believe I was keeping up with him. I passed him at the next stop sign. We ended up taking almost the same roads. He veered off but then his road intersected later with my road. Long story short he waved at me and I waved back. Had a Great Time!
Glad we can track somewhat with the Big Dogs..

The other Porsche Blew me away at Highway Speeds. I thought I was accelerating fast but he had gobs of power. Alot of respect. Might have been a turbo. Looked like Turbo, but no logo.

One Question arises though? When will the LS Be viewed as one of the Kings of the Hill? Will the McLaren and the Lincoln LS SuperSports do it? As they used to say in SNL's Coffee Talk--- Talk amongst yourselves.

Regards,
Victor

keyrow · May 2002

The term "Rice" is Verbotten in Town Hall, as are all of its derivatives: "pilaf", "starch", "starchy", and "Uncle Ben's Autos". There may be other terms as well, who knows what terms the PC police will find that might hurt someone's feelings?

There was a long "discussion" about THE BAN in the "Talk to the Town Hall Hosts" forum, approx. posts 2100-2300 (too lazy to look back). Anyway there was so much objection regarding the banning of this one term that the "Talk to the Town Hall Hosts" forum no longer exists (it was renamed and modified). Here is one brief explanation of why "rice" is banned (#2164 of the aforementioned topic):

"To answer your question:

When it is associated with autos and the auto industry, "rice" references are not allowed in the Town Hall because of its racial/ethnic overtones.

KarenS
Senior Host
Owners Clubs"

Good sound reasoning for banning the term, don't you think? 20 some years ago it was offensive. Does that mean that in the 1960s Americans should have continued to hate German and Japanese people because of WWII? Or ought we move with the times? Also, it did not matter that I and all Asians I know (not ALL Asians) wrote to Edmund's that we like the term and consider it a compliment, not one of us (me + Asians I know) think of it as hateful. It is also odd that Edmund's own Editors use the term in their vehicle evaluations without being reprimanded or having their thoughts removed from the site. Double standard?

The bottom line is: The Masters have issued the Royal Decree, no more discussion will be tolerated!

That is the gist of my previous post.

pat · May 2002

There are a few other posts worth reviewing in that extended exchange:

jonahb "Talk to the Town Hall Hosts" Apr 8, 2002 11:30am

Mr_Shiftright "Talk to the Town Hall Hosts" Apr 10, 2002 12:41pm

Mr_Shiftright "Talk to the Town Hall Hosts" Apr 11, 2002 8:05am

While keyrow is being extremely cynical about all of this, he's right that this is a private website and entitled to control its content in any matter it wishes.

Note that "rice" as applied to vehicles is the problem. Some posts containing some other rice-family (as in food) words were removed because the post *itself* was disruptive. There is certainly no problem with food-related rice terms if in fact they are used without an intent to disrupt. (However, as someone else pointed out, this is not a food website, so how something like that could be on-topic is a question, but it certainly would be evaluated in context.)

I understand that many do not agree with this policy. I ask all of *you* to understand that (1) it cannot be debated here and (2) I personally have no control whatsoever over this or any other policy in the Town Hall.

I'm not going to remove any posts up until this point, but I will have to remove any further posts on the subject.

The way to address your dissatisfaction with this policy is to email our Consumer Services Manager, Jonah Brown. His email address can be found in his profile which is in his message that I linked above.

It seems to me that the only way this policy will ever be changed is if management hears politely and directly from enough of our members. What happened in the Talk to the Hosts discussion a month or two ago may have set "the cause" back a hundred years. Kidding of course, and I hope not, but let me tell you, that kind of behavior is not the way to get people to give credence to the things you have to say.

I also will be willing to discuss off-line if anyone has any questions for me.

But no more talk about it here. That's the way it has to be right now.

Thanks for your understanding.

Pat
Sedans Host

slunar · May 2002

hinkdog: One of the many Ford / Lincoln article links posted here a week or two ago said that the 2003 LS's offcial intoduction date would be November. If that is correct the 2003 LS's should start showing up on dealer lots in October.

A long time ago someone posted a link to a site that had fleet ordering information and production start dates for I think the 2001 model year. If a similar link could be found for 2003 MY Fords it would give some good insite as to 2003 LS availability.

johnnylinc · May 2002

It was I who posted that long-ago fleet site link; good memory! Of course, I couldn't for the life of me remember where or what it was, so I did a quick search of archived LS discussions & found it again. (I got lucky, and I am NOT obsessive-compulsive. I swear.

)

Unfortunately, it only has a few '03 models listed, and the LS isn't on the list yet. Here it is:

http://www.fleetonline.com/services/ford_startup_cutoffs.html

Perhaps they'll update it soon; this company (Burns Automotive) seems to be pretty good about keeping their info current.

JLinc, LLSOC charter member

reneleblanc · May 2002

Perhaps they're here in Scottsdale. I see quite a few of them these days. However, a majority seem to be non-sport types. tsk tsk....

akirby · May 2002

Yesterday, I was waiting to turn right while several cars were turning left from the opposite direction (I had a yield sign) including 2 LS . There were 6 cars in a row and 3 were LS. All Sports, too. There are at least 2 others in my neighborhood. I would say at least 75% of the ones I see around here (North Atlanta suburbs) are over 60 with the majority being non-sports. And they never notice you - they're completely oblivious to the fact that you're driving the same car. Not sure if they don't notice or don't care, although one of the cars in front of me yesterday did give me a long stare as he turned - he was around my age. I also passed a clone of my car this morning going in the opposite direction (Autumn Red Sport/Medium Parchment interior). He never even saw me.

brunobus · May 2002

Actually, I have been noticing more LS's in the Denver area lately. I used to see one about once a month if I was lucky. Now I usually see about one or two a week. All different types and colors but hardly anyone ever looks over at me or notice that I too am driving one.

Bruno

ls1bmw0 · May 2002

Out here in Orange County CA there are definitely more LSes out there and it seems like quite a few of them are paying attention to other ones since I can now usually get a friendly response to my high sign when I pass one.

Brian

goodyrl · May 2002

Post from http://forums.caranddriver.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000830&p=

Gumby Senior Member Member # 4054 Rate Member posted 06 May 2002 11:06 I was searching through some of the "older" posts to see if there were any "real life" information on the Lincoln LS. I could only find tid bits.My question is what is your take on this vehicle? Any real world experiences to convey? The car seems pretty good on paper, V8 motor RWD etc...is it truly?FYI, my dad is considering this car, he presently has a 2000 BMW 740i w/M-sport package. He wants something more "affordable" as the 7 was quite expensive...close to $100k CDN.He is pretty much sold on this car, even though I am desperately trying to get him to consider the A6 4.2 T (quattro)...but to no avail.Also, what are the main differences, similarities between the Lincoln LS V8 with Premium package versus the LSE? Which should he go with, in your estimation?Thanks for the help!

stanny1 · May 2002

Is there such a thing? Is that like adding 19" wheels on an STS? Or 22" wheels on a Navigator?
Like how many lateral G's can you pull in a Rolls Royce? An "M7" - the "Ultimate Driving Appliance". This is mental masturbation!

cb44 · May 2002

Yes, there was a sport package for the 7 series which included an M-calibrated sports suspension upgrade, M-sports wheel, 18" alloys with tire upgrade, and blacked out trim. When adding the $1,800 option package the car handled pretty well for it's size and probably out-handled many smaller cars or similiar sized cars who did not know.

bc4201996 · May 2002

Does anyone know how much dealer cash is available on the Lincoln LS? The Edmunds site currently says none available, however the Carsdirect site says there is some available. Carsdirect doesn't say exactly how much is being offered but they are offering the car in our area for approx. $2,300 under invoice, so obviously there must be some available.

Anyone know exactly how much is available?

reneleblanc · May 2002

Funny you should mention the fact that a lot of other LS owner's seem oblivious of other LS's. I've noticed the same thing.

I'm afraid its just a sad fact that a lot of LS owners really don't fully realize how special their car is, and they've obviously just stumbled into it without full appreciation.

There are automobile enthusiasts and there are automobile owners. Enthusiasts pay a lot of attention to the details of their automotive choices and notice all sorts of differences between different vehicles. Enthusiasts enjoy the qualities of their car and are proud of their choice.

The rest of the people just want transportation that is comfortable and reliable. A lot of cars meet that requirement, but most don't have that extra pizazz that make driving FUN! The Lincoln LS DOES.

funkcity · May 2002

It seems that a lot of LS ownwers in-fact ignore other LSes or do not even know what they are driving.

A guy blew by me Saturday with a Black LS8 Sport with very dark tinted windows. I moved over and...no high sign here! Oh well...

However in a bevy of German cars where I work, people are now looking at my LS and one guy is considering one for his wife. (I think its a sham and he is really thinking of one for himself ;-)
The LS is still an unknown car to a lot of potential buyers.

tlahaye · May 2002

It's my understanding $3,000 is available in the DC area. That explains V6 LSes at below $30,000 in the ads.

Suspect the low APR in effect is in addition to the dealer cash. Looks like a great time to buy if you're shopping 02s.

rayainsw · May 2002

My, my.

I have noticed similar "fire sale" pricing on 2002 LS-s here in the Atlanta area. Great for someone who has already decided to buy a new one, I suppose.

- Ray

Who is NOT pleased with what this is doing to the trade-in value of his 2000 LS8 Sport . . .

slunar · May 2002

Thanks for re-posting the link, johnnylink. Since the 2003 LS is not on the list, yet it must still be several months away.

I went on a 400 mile round trip last weekend and did not see a single LS. Did see one yesterday. Seems to be about a 50% recognition rate from other LS drivers.

airwolf1000 · May 2002

There is a 3000 dollar dealer incentive. You can see it listed for the LS at Cars.Com. I talked to a local dealer and she confirmed it. This is on top of dealer holdback about $800 for LS's Depending on Trim and Options.

Not a bad time to buy. However, to make all of you 2K LS Owners like Myself, The New LS's List for about $2,000 dollars more than ours did similarly outfitted.

Best Regards,
Airwolf1000

leadfoot4 · May 2002

Although I happy with my 2000 LS-8, and have have no immediate plans to sell it, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
What's worse, is the Linc is basically my wife's car, and last summer I bought a new Corvette for myself. Four months later, GM is rebating $2002 on Corvettes. Talk about mixed emotions!!

Lincoln LS

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