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It says the car will be equipped the Michelin Pilot Sports. I didn't look carefully when I saw the car at the NY auto show, but I'll check my pictures to make sure. Or, LLSOC members can ask directly this Sat. when we have our conference call with McLaren
Correction Guys - it was the SVC LS that had Toyo Proxes T1-S tires, not the Mclaren. Sorry! Also, there are at least 3 varieties of the Michelin Pilot Sports -the All-season, the Summer and the Run-Flat are the 3 I've run across. Somewhat confusing!
Not to mention the 12 other variations that begin with Pilot. :-)
Does look like the McLaren has the summer version, not the AS. I would have sworn one of the articles said Pilot Sport A/S but that was probably a misprint.
That's a good question, and I don't believe that we've ever gotten a definitive answer. The Premium car definitely has the same wheels and tires as the Sport, and in the product information sheet the Premium suspension is described as "sport tuned", which is exactly the same description as the Sport. The best answer I can give you is that they're PROBABLY the same.
The Premium car definitely does not have the SST shifter, and there's no mention of it having the oil cooler that's included in the Sport. Premium has the wood wheel & shifter, chrome bumper strips, and unique interior colors & upholstery. One more note: Due to weight considerations, the chrome wheels are being replaced on many Premium cars with the silver Sport wheels. There's a price reduction noted on the window sticker if this occurs.
Can anyone answer this question once and for all? Is the Premium suspension really identical to the Sport?
After the Firestone fiasco, Lincoln changed to Bridgestone, then Continental, then Pirelli or Michelin. Check your dealer's new car lot to see what the majority of the 2002's are shod with.
Many Lincoln dealer's are advertising that they will meet or beat local tire prices. I would give them a chance to do so and you might find some Firestones or the other brands at a good price.
At Mania III the engineers assured me, in answer to a direct question, that all the O.E.M. tires are especially engineered for the LS and have been tested by Lincoln for the best balance for the LS in durability/traction etc. for day-to-day average driving. If you don't need AS, then there may be a better-handling tire for a narrower purpose, such as cone-eating at a gymkana.
Well My dealer managed to botch 2 of my rims removing the Lug Nuts, and replacing all of them. They had stripped them in prior services..
They said they will refinish the 2 Super Silvers Damaged? What do you guys think. Any Long Term Detriments, Loss of structural Integrity, Chipping, Etc. What about color match and Quality? Of course the Quality Varies on the Individual refinisher.
I had the same thing happen to my STS a couple of years ago and had the same apprehensions. I couldn't tell the difference and after a while I forgot which wheel had been refinished. They did a great job. Just check it out before you accept the repair.
I went through this dilema also and I am getting a new set of tires in a few hours, I will let you know how it works out. Here are some of my observations:
I currently have 41,500 mi on the Firehawks and they are out-of-round...a freaquent occurance according to my dealer.
The first year on the Firehawks was very good. They performed very well in the snow and we had quite a bit of it two winters ago. Last year with very little snow they were VERY poor. I slipped all over the place. Based on that I would asy that the Firehwks are very good all season tires up to about 28-30k miles. After that you are looking for trouble. The same comment holds for rain traction was very poor aftr about 30k.
I found the Michelins to be very expensive. I would not mind paying the extra, but no one, including Michelin could say what exactly I was getting for my $100 per tire premium. I am not willing, nor am I rich enough to drop $400 on what amounts to no more than subjective comment and marketing bull___ at best. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who will let you test drive tires so I could understand for myself what the difference is.
I chose the Goodrich g-force T/A KDWS all season 245/45 R17. They seem to have very good all around ratings (AA dry traction as compared to Firehawk's A rating for comparison purposes) for All-Season and dry traction and are priced at about the level of the other similar tires I was looking at ($150 per tire installed ~$123/tire at Tirerack the last time I checked). The subjective comment is easiar to take when you do not have to risk a $400 premium on them.
Anyway, I will let you know how they ride. You may have to wait a few days for some comment on the wet handling and hopefully at least until December for comment on the snow traction. Of course if you do not need an all season tire, just ignore this.
No, but I saw the new Navigator commercial. Guy and girl go out to girl's Navigator. She goes for the driver's door but there's a puddle. Guy takes off trenchcoat and lays it over the puddle. Girl takes out keyfob, hits the button and the retractable running boards come out, she steps OVER the puddle and trenchcoat, onto the running boards and into the Navigator. Guy picks up coat and walks away as girl drives away, nice and dry. The voice over says "There are those who travel and there are those who travel well." Or something to that effect. I thought it was very well done (for a SUV commercial). I think the slogan is growing on me.
According to a couple of the LLSOC members, the new ad for the LS is very cool. Florida Keys, a Cigarette boat, and the same tongue-in-cheek type of ad. Haven't seen it yet but response seems to be that it is pretty neat!
Man and woman driving across bridge to FLA keys. Cigarette Boat running along side bridge. Man looks over & says, "Gee, I gotta get me one of those"...Shot switches to people on boat. Driver looks over at LS and says (altogether now) "Gee, I gotta get me one of those". Then the voiceover "There are those who travel, & those who travel well". Nicely done, though I like the Led Zepplin in the CTS ads more. It's a good thing I'm not shopping for a car ad.
It was followed by "special lease terms" of $479/mo ) sign & drive w/first month's payment waived, 36 mo/12K year for an LS8. Leads me to believe LM might be running the ad regionally, but I've seen it a few times here in Atlanta.
Still shopping for an 00 or 01 for myself, however.
I have heard noise occasional, usually when driving on very poor roads. After reading of latch and striker replacement post, I checked my doors by pushing in on them from the outside. Only the driver side was making the dreaded rattle noise. I then sprayed all latches with WD-40 and almost unbelievably the noise was gone! Incidentally page 8 in maintenance guide calls for lubrication of hinges, latches and outside locks as well as rubber weatherstrips.
I had my brake fluid flushed yesterday at my "usual" shop. After the girl got back from the test drive, she had the LS Grin all over her face! You shoulda seen her eyes! She couldn't stop blubbering about the car! Of course, we KNOW what she was experiencing .
I leased a 2000 V8 LS Sport for 24 Mo. Now leasing a 2002 V8 Premium. If the suspension is the same on the Premium as on the Sport I would recommend any one looking to buy tires to consider the Bridgestones. Much less road noise and a softer ride over the Firestone I had on the 2000 sport. Handling, I can't tell any differance.
First, my sincere thanks to the many on this board that have posted information, insights and analysis. This board helped me make my LS purchase decision in October of 1999. And it has been an excellent resource since.
I would like to single out Brian (the LLSOC Honcho!) and Mark (the transmission god!) in particular. Their participation here added substantially to my ownership experience. THANK YOU BOTH!
Well, I traded in my 2000 V8 Sport. And I chose not to buy an 02 LS, or (obviously) to wait for the 03 intro. Or even for additional information to become available on the 03.
I did drive a couple of 02 LSs. But it soon became clear to me that I just wanted something different. And I decided (for several reasons) that the time to trade was now, rather than this Fall or next Spring.
Best of luck to all LS owners, and owners to be.
If Lincoln does a lot of things to my liking over the next few years, I may see some of you at Mania 5 – or Mania 6 – or Mania 7???
Cheers, - Ray Who is now off to put some more ‘break-in’ miles on the new car!
Just had my new Stones put on. (got them months ago for $89 via tirerack when they were dropping the prices, then subsequently raised them). Managed to squeeze 53,000 miles from the original Firestones. Interestingly enough, Im SURE I could have gotten 60k if I would have at least rotated them according to the Lincoln schedule.
Personally, I love the Firestones that come on the Sport Package LS's. I realize that others dont love them, but to each his own.
If anyone is interested in purchasing a set of BBS RK026 wheels in a 18x7.5 inch size that fit the LS, please contact me at: brian.gowing@llsoc.com
While I love the BBS wheels the way they are constructed interferes with the big brake kit that is going on the project car, so I had to find wheels that had sufficient rotor clearance for the rather gigantic Stoptech rotors, so I'm selling the BBS wheels for what I paid for them.
Man at $89 there are a whole lot of reasons to love the stones.. about $350+ dollars more in your pocket! compared to a $180 dollar tire. Try $69 dollars a tire for a few of us lucky souls!
I just can't wait till the Porterfield Pads are on my car to really test the Stone Grip!
Not knocking any other tires.. Just I perceive I and a few others got a great deal on these puppies before the price rocketed back to $100+.
Ok, I've been doing some thinking about the 2003 engines and comparing the facts and rumours that have been published. Here's what we know:
Marauder gets a 302 hp 4.6L V8 So does the Aviator and Mach 1 Mustang LS V8 will get a power increase (and 302 is a nice round number) 2003 Cobra gets a Supercharged version of the 4.6L for 390+ hp
And here are the rumours: 400 hp 5.0L (modular V8 - either a bored/stroked 4.6L or a shortened 5.4) supercharged LS due in 2004
And here's the big leap tying these together:
To get 390+ hp out of the current 4.6L, SVT had to use an iron block for the Cobra. Using the 5.0L would probably allow 400 hp with the aluminum block. So it would make sense that the DEW98 based Cobra would get the same supercharged 5.0L. And if the 5.0L fits the LS then the 4.6L will also fit. It also puts Lincoln back into the corporate V8 and out of the Jaguar AJ V8. The modular V8s are probably cheaper because of the increased volume and they can be shared with many other vehicles.
So I'm thinking it makes sense to see a 302 hp 4.6L V8 for the 2003 LS with a SC 5.0L hi performance model in 2004. I also think we'll see a 230-240 hp V6 (maybe with VVT?). Those engines should also translate directly into the dew98-lite mustangs (V6, GT, Cobra). Can I get a big "No Comment" from the mania 3 guys?
OTOH I could be totally wrong and they could be keeping the AJ V8 and adding VVT and/or displacement. Don't think they would be adding a SC (if that were the case why would McLaren be doing it?) right now.
Come on Lincoln, spill the beans already. The suspense is killing us!
Well, akirby, IMHO your speculation is a bit off from my speculation.
Not being a Mania 3 attendee, I'm sure that a bunch of people are sitting back laughing at me, but I expect that the 2003 LS V-8 gets revised intake and exhaust systems and possibly a simple 2 step variable cam timing or a small stroke increase to bump HP up to around 280 or so with improved gas mileage.
The 2004 400 HP engine will be a normally aspirated 5.0L DOHC mod motor with 3.70" bore x 3.54" stroke with aluminum block and heads.
If you read back to the orignal LS magazine produced by R&T they mentioned that the 4.6L mod motor would fit, but that it was viewed as not being refined enough for the LS, that is noise and vibration was too high. Supposedly for 2003 the mod motor again has a revised intake system to quiet it down.
IMHO the 3.9L LS V-8 is a great engine, unbelievably smooth (don't belive me just test drive another V-8) and ready willing and able to smoothly rev right to its 6400 RPM redline. In addition, due to the lack of reports otherwise I belive that it is a very reliable engine. The downfall of the 3.9L is its poor gas mileage and that the torqe curve comes on at too high a RPM. Fix those two things and the 3.9L LS engine (or its larger displacement derrivatives) will have a long life.
As slunar mentioned, I don't think the 400hp model was based on supercharging. Considering Car & Driver claimed a 4.5 zero to sixty for the 390hp Cobra, I'm hoping for sub-6 second LS times !
I could be mistaken about the 5.0L being supercharged. I must have gotten it confused with the Cobra engine. But how do you get 400 hp from a 302 without a blower or turbo? Even the Z06 only gets 400 from the 5.7L.
If they do keep the AJV8 I would like to see VVT and a displacement increase to get it closer to 300 hp. 280 is nice but 300 would be sweeeeet!
Akirby, I agree with you that 400hp from 5.0L is a tall order. Practically speaking, 70hp per liter is pretty much the limit - just what the ZO6 gets.
OTOH, the M5 does get 400hp out of 5.0L but part of the price tag is the cost of the engine - I believe someone on this board mentioned that the M-series has individual throttle bodies per cylinder, which is expensive.
Given that a 250hp A6 auto can do 0-60 in 6.6, a 400hp LS will easily break the 6 second mark.
You are slightly optomistic on the V-8 hp for 2003. As far as Rayainsw's new car, all I can say is that he has been (is) very active on the G35 board. But he just posted that he did not buy a G35 either. So my guess is a CTS.
Gee – I really didn’t think anyone here would care is I didn’t replace my 2000 LS8 Sport with another LS.
I bought a 2002 VW W8 (Passat). Dark blue with gray leather.
Since this is the LS board, I’ll try to confine my comments to how the W8 compares to the LS.
Here are a few points specific to a comparison between the W8 and the LS8 Sport: (BTW: if you look at Edmunds, some of their W8 specs are wrong.)
W8 has more HP and more TQ than the current LS8 - and the torque peak is lower on the rpm curve. This is immediately noticeable in how the vehicle accelerates.
The motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound.
VW published 0-60 is 6.5 seconds - despite more weight than the LS and (related) full time AWD. And my 'butt dyno' indicates that it seems perfectly capable of that performance level.
BTW: The published previews in US magazines (and a couple of full road tests in a UK magazines) were on European spec cars (duh) - specifically with a 2.9 to 1 final drive (clearly with very high speed Autobahn driving in mind) rather than the US spec 3.5 to 1.
The W8 has a 21.1 gal. gas tank - and better EPA gas mileage estimates (18 / 25) than my 2000 LS8 Sport. This results in an expectation of a greater cruising range.
In my judgment (only having driven it just over a hundred miles now) it has a much, much better ride than my LS - or the brand new LS Sports I have recently driven. While still offering excellent handling and steering feel. This is with Conti tires that are not really high (let alone Ultra high) performance equipment. I foresee a call to TireRack in my future . . .
The body structure is amazingly rigid.
I find the interior refinement, materials, fit and finish (and 'styling') to be quite pleasing.
I like the trip computer display choices.
FWIW the interior includes some read wood trim - and it looks very nice.
Did I mention that the motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound??
The Tiptronic starts in 1st gear all the time. Otherwise it behaves very much like the LS Sport trans. (This is a ‘good thing’!)
It has cup holders that work better for me.
The W8 motor (VV8?) is an amazingly complex piece – technically sophisticated and it certainly changes the character of the Passat? Will it end up being reliable over the long haul? We’ll see. Certainly there is a risk here, though the Passat in general is reported to be quite reliable, both in CR and in conversations with a small sample of people I know that have owned previous year models. And it does come with a 60,000 mile drivetrain warrantee.
The W8 definitely has character (soul / personality?). This is something that is sometimes hard to define (my Mom's new Accord, for instance, though a perfect car for her, to me seems to lack character) but character is something I look for and enjoy in a vehicle. And it is something that, for me, can offset some other vehicle drawbacks. For example, I once even owned (and largely enjoyed and appreciated) a 1960's Fiat 124 Sport!
Cheers, - Ray
Who now needs to investigate what would be involved in fitting dual Magnaflow mufflers - to let out even more of that magnificent exhaust note . . .
Don't know where you get the info about the new 5.0? Everything I have read indicates its an "all new" engine. I have not seen anything that ties it back to the mod motors (ie a bored or stroked version) or the 3.9L Lima engine. You may be right, I'd dont really know. If you can point me to your sources, I'd appreciate it!
Ray - Why pay so much for such an exotic piece when the G35 does 6.2 with the slush box and will do less than 5.8 with the upcoming six-speed for less than 35k? Also, reliability and maintenance for European cars has traditionally been higher (I own one). And it seems like you never see a VW product on the roads older than about 8 years. Even here in Socal, where cars last forever, I never see an old Rabbit or GTI but I see lots of older Japanese cars. The 2003 LS will have gobs more bottom end and just more power. I don't think it will be 6.5 but maybe 6.9. In the Edmunds review, they pointed out that the engine needs two balance shafts to cancel inherent vibration and they said that the Passat was their favorite VW family car but not with the W8 engine. So was this an experiment? Is the W8 actually a complicated attempt at packaging an 8 cylinder in an engine compartment designed for the narrow angle V-6 which in turn was designed to be not very much larger than the straight 4? We'll be watching for your reports!
The 5.0 is a bored-out 4.6L Cobra DOHC all-aluminum engine. The 5.0 was accomplished by utilized sprayed-on cylinder liners instead of the more traditional iron sleeves. 400hp is quite attainable with VVT, dual throttle body, aggresive cam profile and other typical hot rod tricks. And it is all accomplished without forced air induction.
The engine is real. I've ridden in a car with it (FR500 Mustang, among others). It is a phenomenal engine, and what will probably be in the 2004 Mustang.
I posted detailed info on the 5.0L mod motor a couple of weeks ago. As Brian says, it is real and was shown in a modified Mustang (FR-500) that gives a preview as to what is in store for the DEW-98 Mustang in a couple of years. 75 HP / litre is becoming the norm these days for factory DOHC steet engines. The Acura 3.2L V-6 has 81 HP/l so 80/l or 400 HP total for the 5.0L mod motor is not that much of a stretch.
If you want your very own 400 HP, 5.0L Mod motor right now, I believe that you can buy the new block, pistons, cams and other required parts from SVT to convert your Mustang Cobra 4.6L to the 5.0L engine. The crank is the same as the existing 4.6L DOHC Cobra engine.
Ray, thanks for the info on the W8 Passat. I've heard good things about it and was thinking about taking a close look at it in the future. Since my LS lease doesn't run out for a while I have the time to wait and see if the 2003 LS is as improved as the Mania 3 attendees hint it is.
Unfortuntely, I just saw on BON that the 2003 LS is now delayed until November 15 due software problems. Of course BON doesn't have the greatest credibility so we'll see if that info. is confirmed in the legitimate press.
The Passat is nice but I can't see how it could be perceived as a luxury competitor, even with a W8.
I can understand someone wanting a change though; not get the same car after the lease is up.
If I am lux shopping and want German I am either finding a BMW or a certified preowned A8. Or a Mercedes hatchback....but I digress.....
What is so bizarre to me about the W8 is that its needlessly complex. I have a V8 Taurus that even though the V8 is a bigger motor in comparison to a V6, its packaged efficiently and in an oderly fashion and is a nice tidy transverse install in just a little more than 4 cylinder space. And its a beauty under the hood. But its simple....a 60 degree V angle (the V8 is essentially the Contour V6 with 2 more cylinders and Yamaha designed heads) helps keep it more compact. The balance shaft which is required because of the 60 degree angle make it buttery smooth. The W8 seems to complex in comparison.
Stanny: Although I enjoy reading your posts, you have very little objectivity over the G35. That's fine, we all have out favorites and your soft spot is with Nisan, but in terms of exterior and interior esthetics and overall quality in materials, fit and finish I'll take a Passat or my LS any day over a Nissan or Infinity. Yes Nissan is trying to give you a good bang for the buck, but their poor materials and lack of quality is where it evens out (see the Altima review in the latest Autoweek).
I've finally seen G35's in the flesh and think that from 100 paces the average person couldn't tell it from an Altima. I don't know how to put my finger on it (especially without Pat censoring me) but there is something about most of the current Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infinity designs that look too similar and look too Oriental, like they all hired the same designer to do all of their cars. It seems to me the Japanese manufacturers are trying to come up with their own style identity that breaks with the borrowing from European and American styles that they have done, but they haven't got it right yet.
Whereas the LS, BMW's Audi's, etc. will still look attractive 10 years from now, in 10 years most of us will look at a G35 (or most of the current crop of Japanese cars) and will say "why did anyone ever buy one of those things?"
Actually, a rather sophisticated AWD system. Cheers, - Ray Who did not (and does not) expect every to agree with - or even understand this choice - it is just my choice . . . YMMV!
Ray, enjoy your new car. I admire the Passat and if I was going to consider an import sedan, that would be it. The Camry, Accord, etc. are excellent transportation modules, but I agree with your observations re character/soul. I also agree with your observations re quality of materials and fit/finish on VW products. Even their lower priced cars outshine the competition in this regard.
So, while I hate losing a fellow LS owner to another brand, I wish you good luck with your purchase. As you say, it was your choice. You don't have to defend it.
Ray. Personally, AWD is not necessary for me here in the DC area. But I also know others around here who SWEAR by it and ONLY will get a car with AWD. So, any AWD car for me would be out. BUT, I applaud you for being different and getting the Passat AWD. Ive owned 3 Jettas previously, and yes, VW's have character and soul. And personally, I like the Passat. Now you make me want to take a peek at a W8 next time I pass by a VW dealer.
Go for it Ray. Just keep us posted from time to time on how you are doing..
November has been the planned release date for the 2003 LS for the last three months, and not because of software problems. BON's been coming up a nickel short for awhile. Maybe they've finally succeeded in completely ticking off any of the Ford employees that used to feed them information.
Thanks for the kind words! Hope you stick around and see what comes up in the next couple of years. The W-8 Passat is a nice car, and you're right about the car having a soul. That's what I could never get comfortable with on Japanese cars. They were very well built, excellent value, but very antiseptic. Except for the Mazda RX-7 and Datsun 240/260Z cars. And the Datsun 510. Anything of recent vintage seems like they designed them to be lifeless (My opinion only!)
Though W-8 doesn't quite roll off the tongue like V-8 does. I'll have to get used to that.
as Nissan/Infiniti bias is probably just someone looking for a manual with real power for under $40K. Oh, and it needs to handle pretty well. Can't give first-hand comments because I'm waiting for the coupe and/or manual sedan to be available for test drives, but stay tuned.
I'm sure Stan and I would be very willing to listen to someone who could point us to a sedan with good handling, real power and a manual (other than the G35). Just the basics: RWD, manual, 250+ hp, under $40K. There aren't many vehicles in this category, or even in the niche that ignores the desire for power. Most manufacturers ignore it. Some didn't, but wished they had.
Yeah, the G35 interior sounds pretty sorry. OTOH, the LS's isn't all that wonderful compared to the Audi. But the Audi has reliability "issues." The BMW costs too much (M5, 540, even the 530), Audi's are meant to only be leased, etc., etc.
I'm not that hung up on the G35, guys. It's just the most bang for the buck, along with the coming WRX sti and the new Mitsu Evo if you want a smaller car with outrageous performance. I think it was last month's Automobile magazine that tested those two WRC cars on the street and for the money (25-30K), these two have very sophisticated AWD as well. Not comfortable at all, and not luxury for sure, but if you need an balls out around town screamer that will run with an M3, out-manuever the Mini-Cooper S, and make those street rats with their Civics look downright amatuerish, these two are the ticket. The G35 may be a turn-off to me if it lacks some kind of LSD and the Manual ratios are terrible for cruising. I may just find a two door instead. The G35 Coupe is rumored to have LSD. But I will miss the practicality of a four door sedan. The ease and low cost of traction control systems has seduced manufacturers and consumers into thinking that TC is nirvana. Now you can't get what was once standard as even an option. Sometimes simplicity has it's virtues, as LSD used to be. And it shouldn't cost over 35k to deliver the goods. If you are into stereo equipment, I am looking for the "Outlaw Audio" equivalent in a car.
That sounds funny too, but Brian's right, "doubleyoueight" is awkward.:) Good luck with the VW, Ray, & thanks for your impressions. One thing about Jettas that strikes me funny, smaller Audis too: The three headrests in the rear seat. The LS's back seat isn't exactly spacious for three, but who are they kidding? When I'm behind a Jetta and try to picture three people in that back seat with those headrests, all I can think of is ET and his two brothers.:)
Brian(who hopes Ray sticks around at least so I can see what new stuff he can pack in between parentheses and who is to thank for me starting to do the same thing!)
Comments
It says the car will be equipped the Michelin Pilot Sports. I didn't look carefully when I saw the car at the NY auto show, but I'll check my pictures to make sure. Or, LLSOC members can ask directly this Sat. when we have our conference call with McLaren
Also, there are at least 3 varieties of the Michelin Pilot Sports -the All-season, the Summer and the Run-Flat are the 3 I've run across. Somewhat confusing!
Does look like the McLaren has the summer version, not the AS. I would have sworn one of the articles said Pilot Sport A/S but that was probably a misprint.
The Premium car definitely does not have the SST shifter, and there's no mention of it having the oil cooler that's included in the Sport. Premium has the wood wheel & shifter, chrome bumper strips, and unique interior colors & upholstery. One more note: Due to weight considerations, the chrome wheels are being replaced on many Premium cars with the silver Sport wheels. There's a price reduction noted on the window sticker if this occurs.
Can anyone answer this question once and for all? Is the Premium suspension really identical to the Sport?
Many Lincoln dealer's are advertising that they will meet or beat local tire prices. I would give them a chance to do so and you might find some Firestones or the other brands at a good price.
At Mania III the engineers assured me, in answer to a direct question, that all the O.E.M. tires are especially engineered for the LS and have been tested by Lincoln for the best balance for the LS in durability/traction etc. for day-to-day average driving. If you don't need AS, then there may be a better-handling tire for a narrower purpose, such as cone-eating at a gymkana.
They said they will refinish the 2 Super Silvers Damaged? What do you guys think. Any Long Term Detriments, Loss of structural Integrity, Chipping, Etc. What about color match and Quality? Of course the Quality Varies on the Individual refinisher.
As always your input is appreciated.
Regards,
Victor
I went through this dilema also and I am getting a new set of tires in a few hours, I will let you know how it works out. Here are some of my observations:
I currently have 41,500 mi on the Firehawks and they are out-of-round...a freaquent occurance according to my dealer.
The first year on the Firehawks was very good. They performed very well in the snow and we had quite a bit of it two winters ago. Last year with very little snow they were VERY poor. I slipped all over the place. Based on that I would asy that the Firehwks are very good all season tires up to about 28-30k miles. After that you are looking for trouble. The same comment holds for rain traction was very poor aftr about 30k.
I found the Michelins to be very expensive. I would not mind paying the extra, but no one, including Michelin could say what exactly I was getting for my $100 per tire premium. I am not willing, nor am I rich enough to drop $400 on what amounts to no more than subjective comment and marketing bull___ at best. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who will let you test drive tires so I could understand for myself what the difference is.
I chose the Goodrich g-force T/A KDWS all season 245/45 R17. They seem to have very good all around ratings (AA dry traction as compared to Firehawk's A rating for comparison purposes) for All-Season and dry traction and are priced at about the level of the other similar tires I was looking at ($150 per tire installed ~$123/tire at Tirerack the last time I checked). The subjective comment is easiar to take when you do not have to risk a $400 premium on them.
Anyway, I will let you know how they ride. You may have to wait a few days for some comment on the wet handling and hopefully at least until December for comment on the snow traction. Of course if you do not need an all season tire, just ignore this.
I don't know if this helps?
Scott
LLSOC member
Brian
It was followed by "special lease terms" of $479/mo ) sign & drive w/first month's payment waived, 36 mo/12K year for an LS8. Leads me to believe LM might be running the ad regionally, but I've seen it a few times here in Atlanta.
Still shopping for an 00 or 01 for myself, however.
I would like to single out Brian (the LLSOC Honcho!) and Mark (the transmission god!) in particular. Their participation here added substantially to my ownership experience. THANK YOU BOTH!
Well, I traded in my 2000 V8 Sport. And I chose not to buy an 02 LS, or (obviously) to wait for the 03 intro. Or even for additional information to become available on the 03.
I did drive a couple of 02 LSs. But it soon became clear to me that I just wanted something different. And I decided (for several reasons) that the time to trade was now, rather than this Fall or next Spring.
Best of luck to all LS owners, and owners to be.
If Lincoln does a lot of things to my liking over the next few years, I may see some of you at Mania 5 – or Mania 6 – or Mania 7???
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is now off to put some more ‘break-in’ miles on the new car!
Personally, I love the Firestones that come on the Sport Package LS's. I realize that others dont love them, but to each his own.
While I love the BBS wheels the way they are constructed interferes with the big brake kit that is going on the project car, so I had to find wheels that had sufficient rotor clearance for the rather gigantic Stoptech rotors, so I'm selling the BBS wheels for what I paid for them.
Brian
I just can't wait till the Porterfield Pads are on my car to really test the Stone Grip!
Not knocking any other tires.. Just I perceive I and a few others got a great deal on these puppies before the price rocketed back to $100+.
Enjoy the stones Ronnie.
Regards,
Victor
The standard tire on the Premium.
Bridgestone LE42 P35/50R17. Nice tire.
Marauder gets a 302 hp 4.6L V8
So does the Aviator and Mach 1 Mustang
LS V8 will get a power increase (and 302 is a nice round number)
2003 Cobra gets a Supercharged version of the 4.6L for 390+ hp
And here are the rumours:
400 hp 5.0L (modular V8 - either a bored/stroked 4.6L or a shortened 5.4) supercharged LS due in 2004
And here's the big leap tying these together:
To get 390+ hp out of the current 4.6L, SVT had to use an iron block for the Cobra. Using the 5.0L would probably allow 400 hp with the aluminum block. So it would make sense that the DEW98 based Cobra would get the same supercharged 5.0L. And if the 5.0L fits the LS then the 4.6L will also fit. It also puts Lincoln back into the corporate V8 and out of the Jaguar AJ V8. The modular V8s are probably cheaper because of the increased volume and they can be shared with many other vehicles.
So I'm thinking it makes sense to see a 302 hp 4.6L V8 for the 2003 LS with a SC 5.0L hi performance model in 2004. I also think we'll see a 230-240 hp V6 (maybe with VVT?). Those engines should also translate directly into the dew98-lite mustangs (V6, GT, Cobra). Can I get a big "No Comment" from the mania 3 guys?
OTOH I could be totally wrong and they could be keeping the AJ V8 and adding VVT and/or displacement. Don't think they would be adding a SC (if that were the case why would McLaren be doing it?) right now.
Come on Lincoln, spill the beans already. The suspense is killing us!
Not being a Mania 3 attendee, I'm sure that a bunch of people are sitting back laughing at me, but I expect that the 2003 LS V-8 gets revised intake and exhaust systems and possibly a simple 2 step variable cam timing or a small stroke increase to bump HP up to around 280 or so with improved gas mileage.
The 2004 400 HP engine will be a normally aspirated 5.0L DOHC mod motor with 3.70" bore x 3.54" stroke with aluminum block and heads.
If you read back to the orignal LS magazine produced by R&T they mentioned that the 4.6L mod motor would fit, but that it was viewed as not being refined enough for the LS, that is noise and vibration was too high. Supposedly for 2003 the mod motor again has a revised intake system to quiet it down.
IMHO the 3.9L LS V-8 is a great engine, unbelievably smooth (don't belive me just test drive another V-8) and ready willing and able to smoothly rev right to its 6400 RPM redline. In addition, due to the lack of reports otherwise I belive that it is a very reliable engine. The downfall of the 3.9L is its poor gas mileage and that the torqe curve comes on at too high a RPM. Fix those two things and the 3.9L LS engine (or its larger displacement derrivatives) will have a long life.
If they do keep the AJV8 I would like to see VVT and a displacement increase to get it closer to 300 hp. 280 is nice but 300 would be sweeeeet!
OTOH, the M5 does get 400hp out of 5.0L but part of the price tag is the cost of the engine - I believe someone on this board mentioned that the M-series has individual throttle bodies per cylinder, which is expensive.
Given that a 250hp A6 auto can do 0-60 in 6.6, a 400hp LS will easily break the 6 second mark.
As far as Rayainsw's new car, all I can say is that he has been (is) very active on the G35 board. But he just posted that he did not buy a G35 either. So my guess is a CTS.
I bought a 2002 VW W8 (Passat). Dark blue with gray leather.
Since this is the LS board, I’ll try to confine my comments to how the W8 compares to the LS.
Here are a few points specific to a comparison between the W8 and the LS8 Sport:
(BTW: if you look at Edmunds, some of their W8 specs are wrong.)
W8 has more HP and more TQ than the current LS8 - and the torque peak is lower on the rpm curve. This is immediately noticeable in how the vehicle accelerates.
The motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound.
VW published 0-60 is 6.5 seconds - despite more weight than the LS and (related) full time AWD. And my 'butt dyno' indicates that it seems perfectly capable of that performance level.
BTW: The published previews in US magazines (and a couple of full road tests in a UK magazines) were on European spec cars (duh) - specifically with a 2.9 to 1 final drive (clearly with very high speed Autobahn driving in mind) rather than the US spec 3.5 to 1.
The W8 has a 21.1 gal. gas tank - and better EPA gas mileage estimates (18 / 25) than my 2000 LS8 Sport. This results in an expectation of a greater cruising range.
In my judgment (only having driven it just over a hundred miles now) it has a much, much better ride than my LS - or the brand new LS Sports I have recently driven. While still offering excellent handling and steering feel. This is with Conti tires that are not really high (let alone Ultra high) performance equipment. I foresee a call to TireRack in my future . . .
The body structure is amazingly rigid.
I find the interior refinement, materials, fit and finish (and 'styling') to be quite pleasing.
I like the trip computer display choices.
FWIW the interior includes some read wood trim - and it looks very nice.
Did I mention that the motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound??
The Tiptronic starts in 1st gear all the time. Otherwise it behaves very much like the LS Sport trans. (This is a ‘good thing’!)
It has cup holders that work better for me.
The W8 motor (VV8?) is an amazingly complex piece – technically sophisticated and it certainly changes the character of the Passat? Will it end up being reliable over the long haul? We’ll see. Certainly there is a risk here, though the Passat in general is reported to be quite reliable, both in CR and in conversations with a small sample of people I know that have owned previous year models. And it does come with a 60,000 mile drivetrain warrantee.
The W8 definitely has character (soul / personality?). This is something that is sometimes hard to define (my Mom's new Accord, for instance, though a perfect car for her, to me seems to lack character) but character is something I look for and enjoy in a vehicle. And it is
something that, for me, can offset some other vehicle drawbacks. For example, I once even owned (and largely enjoyed and appreciated) a 1960's Fiat 124 Sport!
Cheers,
- Ray
Who now needs to investigate what would be involved in fitting dual Magnaflow mufflers - to let out even more of that magnificent exhaust note . . .
Cheers.
Also, reliability and maintenance for European cars has traditionally been higher (I own one). And it seems like you never see a VW product on the roads older than about 8 years. Even here in Socal, where cars last forever, I never see an old Rabbit or GTI but I see lots of older Japanese cars.
The 2003 LS will have gobs more bottom end and just more power. I don't think it will be 6.5 but maybe 6.9.
In the Edmunds review, they pointed out that the engine needs two balance shafts to cancel inherent vibration and they said that the Passat was their favorite VW family car but not with the W8 engine.
So was this an experiment? Is the W8 actually a complicated attempt at packaging an 8 cylinder in an engine compartment designed for the narrow angle V-6 which in turn was designed to be not very much larger than the straight 4?
We'll be watching for your reports!
The engine is real. I've ridden in a car with it (FR500 Mustang, among others). It is a phenomenal engine, and what will probably be in the 2004 Mustang.
If you want your very own 400 HP, 5.0L Mod motor right now, I believe that you can buy the new block, pistons, cams and other required parts from SVT to convert your Mustang Cobra 4.6L to the 5.0L engine. The crank is the same as the existing 4.6L DOHC Cobra engine.
Ray, thanks for the info on the W8 Passat. I've heard good things about it and was thinking about taking a close look at it in the future. Since my LS lease doesn't run out for a while I have the time to wait and see if the 2003 LS is as improved as the Mania 3 attendees hint it is.
Unfortuntely, I just saw on BON that the 2003 LS is now delayed until November 15 due software problems. Of course BON doesn't have the greatest credibility so we'll see if that info. is confirmed in the legitimate press.
I can understand someone wanting a change though; not get the same car after the lease is up.
If I am lux shopping and want German I am either finding a BMW or a certified preowned A8. Or a Mercedes hatchback....but I digress.....
What is so bizarre to me about the W8 is that its needlessly complex. I have a V8 Taurus that even though the V8 is a bigger motor in comparison to a V6, its packaged efficiently and in an oderly fashion and is a nice tidy transverse install in just a little more than 4 cylinder space. And its a beauty under the hood. But its simple....a 60 degree V angle (the V8 is essentially the Contour V6 with 2 more cylinders and Yamaha designed heads) helps keep it more compact. The balance shaft which is required because of the 60 degree angle make it buttery smooth. The W8 seems to complex in comparison.
I've finally seen G35's in the flesh and think that from 100 paces the average person couldn't tell it from an Altima. I don't know how to put my finger on it (especially without Pat censoring me) but there is something about most of the current Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infinity designs that look too similar and look too Oriental, like they all hired the same designer to do all of their cars. It seems to me the Japanese manufacturers are trying to come up with their own style identity that breaks with the borrowing from European and American styles that they have done, but they haven't got it right yet.
Whereas the LS, BMW's Audi's, etc. will still look attractive 10 years from now, in 10 years most of us will look at a G35 (or most of the current crop of Japanese cars) and will say "why did anyone ever buy one of those things?"
Cheers,
- Ray
Who did not (and does not) expect every to agree with - or even understand this choice - it is just my choice . . . YMMV!
So, while I hate losing a fellow LS owner to another brand, I wish you good luck with your purchase. As you say, it was your choice. You don't have to defend it.
Keep us posted.
Artie
Charter Member LLSOC
Go for it Ray. Just keep us posted from time to time on how you are doing..
Thanks for the kind words! Hope you stick around and see what comes up in the next couple of years. The W-8 Passat is a nice car, and you're right about the car having a soul. That's what I could never get comfortable with on Japanese cars. They were very well built, excellent value, but very antiseptic. Except for the Mazda RX-7 and Datsun 240/260Z cars. And the Datsun 510. Anything of recent vintage seems like they designed them to be lifeless (My opinion only!)
Though W-8 doesn't quite roll off the tongue like V-8 does. I'll have to get used to that.
I'm sure Stan and I would be very willing to listen to someone who could point us to a sedan with good handling, real power and a manual (other than the G35). Just the basics: RWD, manual, 250+ hp, under $40K. There aren't many vehicles in this category, or even in the niche that ignores the desire for power. Most manufacturers ignore it. Some didn't, but wished they had.
Yeah, the G35 interior sounds pretty sorry. OTOH, the LS's isn't all that wonderful compared to the Audi. But the Audi has reliability "issues." The BMW costs too much (M5, 540, even the 530), Audi's are meant to only be leased, etc., etc.
I think it's called free enterprise.
Let the good times roll.
The G35 may be a turn-off to me if it lacks some kind of LSD and the Manual ratios are terrible for cruising. I may just find a two door instead.
The G35 Coupe is rumored to have LSD. But I will miss the practicality of a four door sedan.
The ease and low cost of traction control systems has seduced manufacturers and consumers into thinking that TC is nirvana. Now you can't get what was once standard as even an option. Sometimes simplicity has it's virtues, as LSD used to be. And it shouldn't cost over 35k to deliver the goods.
If you are into stereo equipment, I am looking for the "Outlaw Audio" equivalent in a car.
Brian(who hopes Ray sticks around at least so I can see what new stuff he can pack in between parentheses and who is to thank for me starting to do the same thing!)