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It says the car will be equipped the Michelin Pilot Sports. I didn't look carefully when I saw the car at the NY auto show, but I'll check my pictures to make sure. Or, LLSOC members can ask directly this Sat. when we have our conference call with McLaren
Also, there are at least 3 varieties of the Michelin Pilot Sports -the All-season, the Summer and the Run-Flat are the 3 I've run across. Somewhat confusing!
Does look like the McLaren has the summer version, not the AS. I would have sworn one of the articles said Pilot Sport A/S but that was probably a misprint.
The Premium car definitely does not have the SST shifter, and there's no mention of it having the oil cooler that's included in the Sport. Premium has the wood wheel & shifter, chrome bumper strips, and unique interior colors & upholstery. One more note: Due to weight considerations, the chrome wheels are being replaced on many Premium cars with the silver Sport wheels. There's a price reduction noted on the window sticker if this occurs.
Can anyone answer this question once and for all? Is the Premium suspension really identical to the Sport?
Many Lincoln dealer's are advertising that they will meet or beat local tire prices. I would give them a chance to do so and you might find some Firestones or the other brands at a good price.
At Mania III the engineers assured me, in answer to a direct question, that all the O.E.M. tires are especially engineered for the LS and have been tested by Lincoln for the best balance for the LS in durability/traction etc. for day-to-day average driving. If you don't need AS, then there may be a better-handling tire for a narrower purpose, such as cone-eating at a gymkana.
They said they will refinish the 2 Super Silvers Damaged? What do you guys think. Any Long Term Detriments, Loss of structural Integrity, Chipping, Etc. What about color match and Quality? Of course the Quality Varies on the Individual refinisher.
As always your input is appreciated.
Regards,
Victor
I went through this dilema also and I am getting a new set of tires in a few hours, I will let you know how it works out. Here are some of my observations:
I currently have 41,500 mi on the Firehawks and they are out-of-round...a freaquent occurance according to my dealer.
The first year on the Firehawks was very good. They performed very well in the snow and we had quite a bit of it two winters ago. Last year with very little snow they were VERY poor. I slipped all over the place. Based on that I would asy that the Firehwks are very good all season tires up to about 28-30k miles. After that you are looking for trouble. The same comment holds for rain traction was very poor aftr about 30k.
I found the Michelins to be very expensive. I would not mind paying the extra, but no one, including Michelin could say what exactly I was getting for my $100 per tire premium. I am not willing, nor am I rich enough to drop $400 on what amounts to no more than subjective comment and marketing bull___ at best. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who will let you test drive tires so I could understand for myself what the difference is.
I chose the Goodrich g-force T/A KDWS all season 245/45 R17. They seem to have very good all around ratings (AA dry traction as compared to Firehawk's A rating for comparison purposes) for All-Season and dry traction and are priced at about the level of the other similar tires I was looking at ($150 per tire installed ~$123/tire at Tirerack the last time I checked). The subjective comment is easiar to take when you do not have to risk a $400 premium on them.
Anyway, I will let you know how they ride. You may have to wait a few days for some comment on the wet handling and hopefully at least until December for comment on the snow traction. Of course if you do not need an all season tire, just ignore this.
I don't know if this helps?
Scott
LLSOC member
Brian
It was followed by "special lease terms" of $479/mo ) sign & drive w/first month's payment waived, 36 mo/12K year for an LS8. Leads me to believe LM might be running the ad regionally, but I've seen it a few times here in Atlanta.
Still shopping for an 00 or 01 for myself, however.
I would like to single out Brian (the LLSOC Honcho!) and Mark (the transmission god!) in particular. Their participation here added substantially to my ownership experience. THANK YOU BOTH!
Well, I traded in my 2000 V8 Sport. And I chose not to buy an 02 LS, or (obviously) to wait for the 03 intro. Or even for additional information to become available on the 03.
I did drive a couple of 02 LSs. But it soon became clear to me that I just wanted something different. And I decided (for several reasons) that the time to trade was now, rather than this Fall or next Spring.
Best of luck to all LS owners, and owners to be.
If Lincoln does a lot of things to my liking over the next few years, I may see some of you at Mania 5 – or Mania 6 – or Mania 7???
Cheers,
- Ray
Who is now off to put some more ‘break-in’ miles on the new car!
Personally, I love the Firestones that come on the Sport Package LS's. I realize that others dont love them, but to each his own.
While I love the BBS wheels the way they are constructed interferes with the big brake kit that is going on the project car, so I had to find wheels that had sufficient rotor clearance for the rather gigantic Stoptech rotors, so I'm selling the BBS wheels for what I paid for them.
Brian
I just can't wait till the Porterfield Pads are on my car to really test the Stone Grip!
Not knocking any other tires.. Just I perceive I and a few others got a great deal on these puppies before the price rocketed back to $100+.
Enjoy the stones Ronnie.
Regards,
Victor
The standard tire on the Premium.
Bridgestone LE42 P35/50R17. Nice tire.
Marauder gets a 302 hp 4.6L V8
So does the Aviator and Mach 1 Mustang
LS V8 will get a power increase (and 302 is a nice round number)
2003 Cobra gets a Supercharged version of the 4.6L for 390+ hp
And here are the rumours:
400 hp 5.0L (modular V8 - either a bored/stroked 4.6L or a shortened 5.4) supercharged LS due in 2004
And here's the big leap tying these together:
To get 390+ hp out of the current 4.6L, SVT had to use an iron block for the Cobra. Using the 5.0L would probably allow 400 hp with the aluminum block. So it would make sense that the DEW98 based Cobra would get the same supercharged 5.0L. And if the 5.0L fits the LS then the 4.6L will also fit. It also puts Lincoln back into the corporate V8 and out of the Jaguar AJ V8. The modular V8s are probably cheaper because of the increased volume and they can be shared with many other vehicles.
So I'm thinking it makes sense to see a 302 hp 4.6L V8 for the 2003 LS with a SC 5.0L hi performance model in 2004. I also think we'll see a 230-240 hp V6 (maybe with VVT?). Those engines should also translate directly into the dew98-lite mustangs (V6, GT, Cobra). Can I get a big "No Comment" from the mania 3 guys?
OTOH I could be totally wrong and they could be keeping the AJ V8 and adding VVT and/or displacement. Don't think they would be adding a SC (if that were the case why would McLaren be doing it?) right now.
Come on Lincoln, spill the beans already. The suspense is killing us!
Not being a Mania 3 attendee, I'm sure that a bunch of people are sitting back laughing at me, but I expect that the 2003 LS V-8 gets revised intake and exhaust systems and possibly a simple 2 step variable cam timing or a small stroke increase to bump HP up to around 280 or so with improved gas mileage.
The 2004 400 HP engine will be a normally aspirated 5.0L DOHC mod motor with 3.70" bore x 3.54" stroke with aluminum block and heads.
If you read back to the orignal LS magazine produced by R&T they mentioned that the 4.6L mod motor would fit, but that it was viewed as not being refined enough for the LS, that is noise and vibration was too high. Supposedly for 2003 the mod motor again has a revised intake system to quiet it down.
IMHO the 3.9L LS V-8 is a great engine, unbelievably smooth (don't belive me just test drive another V-8) and ready willing and able to smoothly rev right to its 6400 RPM redline. In addition, due to the lack of reports otherwise I belive that it is a very reliable engine. The downfall of the 3.9L is its poor gas mileage and that the torqe curve comes on at too high a RPM. Fix those two things and the 3.9L LS engine (or its larger displacement derrivatives) will have a long life.
If they do keep the AJV8 I would like to see VVT and a displacement increase to get it closer to 300 hp. 280 is nice but 300 would be sweeeeet!
OTOH, the M5 does get 400hp out of 5.0L but part of the price tag is the cost of the engine - I believe someone on this board mentioned that the M-series has individual throttle bodies per cylinder, which is expensive.
Given that a 250hp A6 auto can do 0-60 in 6.6, a 400hp LS will easily break the 6 second mark.
As far as Rayainsw's new car, all I can say is that he has been (is) very active on the G35 board. But he just posted that he did not buy a G35 either. So my guess is a CTS.
I bought a 2002 VW W8 (Passat). Dark blue with gray leather.
Since this is the LS board, I’ll try to confine my comments to how the W8 compares to the LS.
Here are a few points specific to a comparison between the W8 and the LS8 Sport:
(BTW: if you look at Edmunds, some of their W8 specs are wrong.)
W8 has more HP and more TQ than the current LS8 - and the torque peak is lower on the rpm curve. This is immediately noticeable in how the vehicle accelerates.
The motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound.
VW published 0-60 is 6.5 seconds - despite more weight than the LS and (related) full time AWD. And my 'butt dyno' indicates that it seems perfectly capable of that performance level.
BTW: The published previews in US magazines (and a couple of full road tests in a UK magazines) were on European spec cars (duh) - specifically with a 2.9 to 1 final drive (clearly with very high speed Autobahn driving in mind) rather than the US spec 3.5 to 1.
The W8 has a 21.1 gal. gas tank - and better EPA gas mileage estimates (18 / 25) than my 2000 LS8 Sport. This results in an expectation of a greater cruising range.
In my judgment (only having driven it just over a hundred miles now) it has a much, much better ride than my LS - or the brand new LS Sports I have recently driven. While still offering excellent handling and steering feel. This is with Conti tires that are not really high (let alone Ultra high) performance equipment. I foresee a call to TireRack in my future . . .
The body structure is amazingly rigid.
I find the interior refinement, materials, fit and finish (and 'styling') to be quite pleasing.
I like the trip computer display choices.
FWIW the interior includes some read wood trim - and it looks very nice.
Did I mention that the motor / exhaust has a unique and wonderful sound??
The Tiptronic starts in 1st gear all the time. Otherwise it behaves very much like the LS Sport trans. (This is a ‘good thing’!)
It has cup holders that work better for me.
The W8 motor (VV8?) is an amazingly complex piece – technically sophisticated and it certainly changes the character of the Passat? Will it end up being reliable over the long haul? We’ll see. Certainly there is a risk here, though the Passat in general is reported to be quite reliable, both in CR and in conversations with a small sample of people I know that have owned previous year models. And it does come with a 60,000 mile drivetrain warrantee.
The W8 definitely has character (soul / personality?). This is something that is sometimes hard to define (my Mom's new Accord, for instance, though a perfect car for her, to me seems to lack character) but character is something I look for and enjoy in a vehicle. And it is
something that, for me, can offset some other vehicle drawbacks. For example, I once even owned (and largely enjoyed and appreciated) a 1960's Fiat 124 Sport!
Cheers,
- Ray
Who now needs to investigate what would be involved in fitting dual Magnaflow mufflers - to let out even more of that magnificent exhaust note . . .
Cheers.
Also, reliability and maintenance for European cars has traditionally been higher (I own one). And it seems like you never see a VW product on the roads older than about 8 years. Even here in Socal, where cars last forever, I never see an old Rabbit or GTI but I see lots of older Japanese cars.
The 2003 LS will have gobs more bottom end and just more power. I don't think it will be 6.5 but maybe 6.9.
In the Edmunds review, they pointed out that the engine needs two balance shafts to cancel inherent vibration and they said that the Passat was their favorite VW family car but not with the W8 engine.
So was this an experiment? Is the W8 actually a complicated attempt at packaging an 8 cylinder in an engine compartment designed for the narrow angle V-6 which in turn was designed to be not very much larger than the straight 4?
We'll be watching for your reports!
The engine is real. I've ridden in a car with it (FR500 Mustang, among others). It is a phenomenal engine, and what will probably be in the 2004 Mustang.
If you want your very own 400 HP, 5.0L Mod motor right now, I believe that you can buy the new block, pistons, cams and other required parts from SVT to convert your Mustang Cobra 4.6L to the 5.0L engine. The crank is the same as the existing 4.6L DOHC Cobra engine.
Ray, thanks for the info on the W8 Passat. I've heard good things about it and was thinking about taking a close look at it in the future. Since my LS lease doesn't run out for a while I have the time to wait and see if the 2003 LS is as improved as the Mania 3 attendees hint it is.
Unfortuntely, I just saw on BON that the 2003 LS is now delayed until November 15 due software problems. Of course BON doesn't have the greatest credibility so we'll see if that info. is confirmed in the legitimate press.
I can understand someone wanting a change though; not get the same car after the lease is up.
If I am lux shopping and want German I am either finding a BMW or a certified preowned A8. Or a Mercedes hatchback....but I digress.....
What is so bizarre to me about the W8 is that its needlessly complex. I have a V8 Taurus that even though the V8 is a bigger motor in comparison to a V6, its packaged efficiently and in an oderly fashion and is a nice tidy transverse install in just a little more than 4 cylinder space. And its a beauty under the hood. But its simple....a 60 degree V angle (the V8 is essentially the Contour V6 with 2 more cylinders and Yamaha designed heads) helps keep it more compact. The balance shaft which is required because of the 60 degree angle make it buttery smooth. The W8 seems to complex in comparison.
I've finally seen G35's in the flesh and think that from 100 paces the average person couldn't tell it from an Altima. I don't know how to put my finger on it (especially without Pat censoring me) but there is something about most of the current Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infinity designs that look too similar and look too Oriental, like they all hired the same designer to do all of their cars. It seems to me the Japanese manufacturers are trying to come up with their own style identity that breaks with the borrowing from European and American styles that they have done, but they haven't got it right yet.
Whereas the LS, BMW's Audi's, etc. will still look attractive 10 years from now, in 10 years most of us will look at a G35 (or most of the current crop of Japanese cars) and will say "why did anyone ever buy one of those things?"
Cheers,
- Ray
Who did not (and does not) expect every to agree with - or even understand this choice - it is just my choice . . . YMMV!
So, while I hate losing a fellow LS owner to another brand, I wish you good luck with your purchase. As you say, it was your choice. You don't have to defend it.
Keep us posted.
Artie
Charter Member LLSOC
Go for it Ray. Just keep us posted from time to time on how you are doing..
Thanks for the kind words! Hope you stick around and see what comes up in the next couple of years. The W-8 Passat is a nice car, and you're right about the car having a soul. That's what I could never get comfortable with on Japanese cars. They were very well built, excellent value, but very antiseptic. Except for the Mazda RX-7 and Datsun 240/260Z cars. And the Datsun 510. Anything of recent vintage seems like they designed them to be lifeless (My opinion only!)
Though W-8 doesn't quite roll off the tongue like V-8 does. I'll have to get used to that.
I'm sure Stan and I would be very willing to listen to someone who could point us to a sedan with good handling, real power and a manual (other than the G35). Just the basics: RWD, manual, 250+ hp, under $40K. There aren't many vehicles in this category, or even in the niche that ignores the desire for power. Most manufacturers ignore it. Some didn't, but wished they had.
Yeah, the G35 interior sounds pretty sorry. OTOH, the LS's isn't all that wonderful compared to the Audi. But the Audi has reliability "issues." The BMW costs too much (M5, 540, even the 530), Audi's are meant to only be leased, etc., etc.
I think it's called free enterprise.
Let the good times roll.
The G35 may be a turn-off to me if it lacks some kind of LSD and the Manual ratios are terrible for cruising. I may just find a two door instead.
The G35 Coupe is rumored to have LSD. But I will miss the practicality of a four door sedan.
The ease and low cost of traction control systems has seduced manufacturers and consumers into thinking that TC is nirvana. Now you can't get what was once standard as even an option. Sometimes simplicity has it's virtues, as LSD used to be. And it shouldn't cost over 35k to deliver the goods.
If you are into stereo equipment, I am looking for the "Outlaw Audio" equivalent in a car.
Brian(who hopes Ray sticks around at least so I can see what new stuff he can pack in between parentheses and who is to thank for me starting to do the same thing!)