Mazda Protegé

chicagopro · November 2003

Thanks so much for posting the collected tire wisdom of the Protege topic!

I'm looking for new tires, too, and it was very informative to read all that.

--Dale

lawman1967 · November 2003

My new DX has two rattles, one in the trunk or rear cabin (can't tell) and the other in or more likely under the glove box. Any ideas how to excise these or what the cause likely is? Other than the rattles (plastic on plastic up front, metalic-sounding in the rear), the car is phenominal, which makes these pesky rattles all the more annoying.

fowler3 · November 2003

Your dealer should get them out. My dealer said the first 12 months are for getting out rattles. My '01 LX didn't have any and still doesn't.

fowler3

fowler3 · November 2003

Let's get a good group there! I attended the Subarau chat last Thusrday, they had 18 dedicated fans. We can't let Subys get ahead of us!

Time: 9:00PM - 10:00pM EST and 6:00PM - 7:00PM PST

Bring your questions and comments, doors open 15 minutes early for a longer chat. It's the fastest hour in the week.

fowler3

mdaffron · November 2003

"Meade seems to like BF Goodrich Control T/As."

Nope.

Meade seems to like BF Goodrich Touring T/A VR4s.

Different tires.

Several other members here have them on their Proteges, although I must clarify that they're 205/55-15s -- plus sized for the 15-inch wheels on the 1999 and 2000 ES. Dunno if there's a size for the wheels on the newer model.

I will report that I now have about 14,000 miles on the BFGs and I rotate them about every 5,000 miles. The car rides well, corners very well, there is minimal road noise transmitted to the cabin, and they perform well (much better than the stock Bridgestone Potenza RE92s but not quite as well as the Dunlop SP Sport A2s -- when they were new that is) in the rain. So far I cannot find any appreciable wear on the BFGs, so I think I've found the tire that will stay with the car for the next 30,000 miles until I trade it for my new Mazda3 in 2005!

Meade

meinrad · November 2003

for advertising chat! LoL.

ashutoshsm · November 2003

... yeah, get the Falkens, and blame me if you hate em

Another manufacturer that's been making an impressive line of tires lately is Toyo - and they just came out with an excellent new All Season - the Proxes 4 or PZ4 or something like that. Seen it in action lately - apparently also a great blend of All Season and handling capabilities, with excellent 300+ treadwear, a nice low price (same as the ZIEX) and GREAT looks. Put those on your radar too.

My cwappy Michelins on the Mazda 6 are ready to wear out by the end of winter. Some aggressive driving and their awful All Season hard traction which causes them to break off in chunks when driven too hard are to blame

If I decide to get light 17" wheels and sporty summer tires, I'll get the Falkens or Toyos for the 16" as the All Season/Winter option.

ashutoshsm · November 2003

(that's a cute name, if somewhat unusual for an Indian)

The tires are Michelin MXH4s and I've been driving them like I drove my performance Falkens on the Pro. They just can't handle 'em. These tires, when bought aftermarket, come with a ridiculous 60K+ mile warranty. Yeah, the tread will last pretty long, but the little sipes and grooves that keep dry and wet traction at safe levels die out much earlier.

My pro had the (essentially identical) 80K mile warrantied XH4's and was hydroplaning under hard acceleration (itself a misnomer with a 92hp engine) at 25/30K miles). The tread would certainly not have worn out for more than twice that, though - but the tires were too unsafe and disappointingly traction-less to continue to satisfy my driving style and expectations. That's what I'm referring to.

dinu01 · November 2003

None here either. This is uncommon if not unheard of in the 3rd gen PRO.

See your dealer.

Chat: Will try my best to attend

Dinu

boggse · November 2003

Are you hitting on Tori? Who is Tori?!

On the tire subject: Were you referring to the Toyo Proxes TPT? That was what asking about in boggse Nov 25, 2003 8:09am. Can you elaborate?

mazdafun · November 2003

I made all four of my Dunlop SP Sport A2s squeal while taking a tight corner today. But I was still well in control. They complained, but held on tightly; I couldn't discern much drift from my intended path. My daughter told me wasn't in the least bit fazed when I asked her about it afterwards (she is used to my sometimes aggressive driving...I hope she doesn't emulate her old man when she starts driving).

Wish I could say that I planned that, but I hadn't completely. While putting in yet another shopping center, they redid a stretch of road. There used to be a fun compromise corner in it, but now that is gone and in its place is a hard left, which I wasn't expecting. My Pro took it like, well, a pro.

Seriously, I took it fast, but it while it was tight, there was a wide shoulder, visibility was clear and the road was dry and grippy (being fresh asphalt and the temp was actually up into the 60s this afternoon).

I totally left the woman who was tailgating me in her Acura up to that point. She left a respectful distance between us after that. I probably gave her quite a scare and she didn't want to be too close to me.

braja · November 2003

Have 150 miles on the new 03 pro LX. Considering
going on a 275 miles (one way) interstate trip.
I may have to maintain constant speed for 2-3
hours each way. Does this violate the break-in
procedures?

Thanks.

bluong1 · November 2003

I totally left the woman who was tailgating me in her Acura up to that point. She left a respectful distance between us after that. I probably gave her quite a scare and she didn't want to be too close to me.

I suspect your daughter when she grew up and start driving - unlike this woman - won't let it goes that easily. :-)

bluong1 · November 2003

I may have to maintain constant speed for 2-3 hours each way

Why you have to? can't you just keep varying within 60-75mph, keeping the constant speed no longer than 5 minutes?

tomciviletti · November 2003

Yep, do not maintain a constant speed. I'd rather drive slow a while and break the speed limit a while than dig ridges into my cylinder walls. If you have a 5 speed, you can also drive in 4th a while.

lawman1967 · November 2003

just disengage the overdirve for a few minutes at a time.

steven39 · November 2003

well, i have had my protege es for 2 months so far and all is well.what amazes me about this car is how solid it feels and how stable it is on the highway,although it does tend to get a bit noisey at times.the build quality is very good as is the handleing.it definitley feels like a much more expensive car than it is and is way better than the toyota corolla i test drove before deciding on the protege.the corolla got blown all over the highway at 55 mph and if a semi truck passes you you better hang on for dear life,while the protege stays well planted at all times.anyway, iam very happy with my purchase and if the new mazda 3 turns out to be like the protege i will get a mazda 3 in a few years.steve

dinu01 · November 2003

Glad to hear all's good in PRO land.

Dinu

braja · November 2003

Thanks for the advice on breaking in. I have been
just testing the car and have put about 150 miles. The car feels terrific below 60 MPH - smooth, quiet and solid. However, after 65 MPH,
there is a low, rumbling/whooping noise (similar to wind noise when you leave a window open slightly, except this is not as loud). At 80 MPH
(the maximum I went), the engine revs at 4000 RPM
and this noise is more intense. Is this normal
engine noise? Otherwise, the ride is very stable.
I'm wondering if this is wind noise getting through some place not sealed properly...

Thanks.

lawman1967 · November 2003

My DX has more wind noise than other cars I've owned recently, but not too bad. As for engine noise, there is some exhaust noise, but it is quite pleasant (I think they tuned the exhaust for just that effect).

dinu01 · November 2003

Might come from the "weather stripping" around the windshield. Mazda dealers are aware of this and have a simple and quick fix - see your dealer.

As for the revving, yeah, this car has lots of power for city driving, but gets noisy at higher speeds. I assume you have the 2.0L engine in the LX if it's 2001 or newer.

Here is my suggestion:

1. Turn the radio up

Seriously, there's not much you can do. I don't find it bad, but admit it could be quieter.

Dinu

braja · November 2003

Hi,

Used to have a 2000 Pro ES (which got wrecked
recently in an accident, hence the new 03 LX).
That car, with a 1.8L engine, was revving
lower than my new car, with 2.0L engine (not
sure if there is a correlation, but I was
thinking that a bigger engine would run at
a lower RPM for the same speed).

What I find puzzling is the dramatic change in the noise profile after 60 mph. At 80, it's
quite a racket. The whooping noise I described
is a big contributor.

I'll check with the dealer on the weather
stripping. If that helps, it would be quite
an improvement.

But for the noise, the car is terrific. Which,
BTW, makes the whole noise issue such a pain
since you simply can't find fault with anything
else.

Thanks.

blueguydotcom · November 2003

I've joined the Mazda fold. For the past few months I've searched for a commuter car so as not to continue adding 600 miles a week to my other car.

This weekend I buckled down and tested all manner of cars from used to brand new. My goal was to get the most fun, reliability and comfort for my cash without exceeding 13-14k.

I fiddled with used CLs and Solaras but they were too sloppy handling for my tastes.

I stopped in at Ford and tried out a Focus. Not bad considering the amazing power of the 2.3L engine. But I worry that it won't hold up for the commute.

The Corolla made me feel like I was sitting in a hole. Civic had decent pull but was noisy at 80+ and felt light.

The Hyundai Elantra GLS/GT felt too lightly sprung and scary wiggly at highway speeds.

The Scion xB pulled like a champ up to 90. It teetered a bit unnervingly in corners but the build quality was top notch, the interior had gobs of space and the price was reasonable.

The Scion xA with a CAI, lowered. 16s and sporting a strut tower bar was easily the home-run handling champ of the cars I drove. Yeah it didn't sport much in power but given the 2300 lbs weight, that didn't matter. Unfortunately, those mods would tack on at least 1000-1500. The price would come in above 14k.

Finally I took a spin in a Pro LX. The engine had good pull, the interior felt nice and the handling was quite good. I moved on to the ES and found the 16s felt more surefooted to me. The interior fit just right (though the telescoping of the Mazda3 would be a bonus). The back window had some nasty gunk inside though...the salesguy said it would get cleaned off.

Ended up buying a 2003 Pro ES in the emerald mica (not a color I want but a search online showed 0 ES Pros in the San Diego area). It has the moonroof/6 disc option for a sticker of 17,090.

Including my impending $500 grad rebate I paid $11,390.

The buying experience was a nightmare as the dealership lied on several occasions. First I was told they allow buyers to put up to 50% on a credit card (hey, free points and 0% interest until may), but that turned out to be a lie. "This is such a good deal, you must pay cash or use a loan."

Okay, how about an option contract? Nope. Again, because I "had such a sweet deal" it was not allowed. Argh!

Fine, lets see what you can pull up with you-finance-guy-you. First shot was a jacked up 8.49% APR. I laughed and said sure as I'll nail another loan monday and nuke it. Oh and they want to leave the Stargard bogus security chip thing on the car for a mere $500. ROFL

Some haggling and suddenly the joker wants $400 for the toy. nope. $300? No, take it off. By the end, no toy stargard "security" system and the rate was 4.49% for 4 years. Still not a rate that makes me happy. Gonna talk to a place Monday. Doc fees were reasonable at $40 though.

So I go to leave after the arduous 1 hour ordeal with the finance twit and my salesperson tells me he can't get anyone to drive one of my cars back to my place AFTER we agreed upon that. Fine. He says I should come back tomorrow (Sunday).

I came by this morning and I noticed a few things: scratches and the car still wasn't cleaned right. The manager told me they'd try to buff out the scratches but he would not go near anything related to painting. Hey, just fix it. He also declared the car was detailed. Uh, as if. His response: "You got a great deal. If you dislike it, leave the car and we terminate the contract."

Finally they said they'd work to get the scatches out. Still really mad that the back window has smudges and that grease inside it. I'll call a real Mazda dealer tomorrow to discuss them cleaning it.

Also, they informed me that I'd have to guide the dealer employee home to drop off my car and then take him back as the 5 salesguys standing inside watching a Mexican soap opera couldn't bother because they were "busy". Apparently, gravity is reversed inside the dealer showroom and if too many salesmen leave, the floor would lift up.

One last smack...they didn't have my wireless key fobs. "We don't know where they are." "We'll get you some this week." What?

Love my Pro but Westcott Mazda in National City is a straight ghetto dealer with zero customer service skills. If Mazda calls to check my dealer experience I'm gonna go off like an H-bomb at the Bikini atoll. If Mazda doesn't call, I'll contact them!

dinu01 · November 2003

#1 - Congrats! You read the board for a while and know you got a great car.
#2 - Ditch that dealer.

Dinu

dinu01 · November 2003

I drove a 00 1.8L 5spd LX once and it revved easier than my 01 2.0L ES AT.

You'll get used to it. The car is great - don't forget to push it when cornering (if it's dry)

Dinu

lawman1967 · November 2003

Wow, 11,400 for an ES? I just paid 11,200 for my DX auto and thought I got a good deal. Oh well, my car has no scratches and the dealer was top-notch.

As for the engine, the 2.0 was a bit of a step back refinement-wise from the 1.8 in the old ES. My guess is that it is less expensive.

The engine is not without its virtues though. It idles very smoothly, at least with the automatic, and has plenty of low-end torque. In all, it is a powerful car even with the slushbox and while a bit noisy, still is a willing partner to twisty road adventures.

protege_fan · December 2003

Congratulations! Hope you enjoy your Pro as much as most of us past/present Pro owners have!

mdaffron · December 2003

Welcome to Emerald Mica land!

You've got company. I own a 2000 ES in Emerald Mica with 68,000 trouble-free miles on it. Larry (protegextwo) owns TWO Emerald Mica 2000 ES's.

EM wasn't my first choice either -- but it's grown on me. It was the only color available with a 5-speed on the lot when I went to buy mine.

Meade

boggse · December 2003

Well, I guess we haven't talked about this in a while. From http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MX5Engine.html:

"The 'F' engines are the 'big blocks' of the 4 cylinders. They are long stroke motors and are generally not designed for high revs."

The 1.8 has a stroke of 85mm while the 2.0 has a stroke of 92mm, so each piston must travel an additional 28mm for every turn of the crank. That explains why it revs slower. It also explains the additional 15 lbs-ft of torque you get from the 2.0.

bluong1 · December 2003

I don't think he was talking about the ability to rev, but the RPM at the same car speed. This depends on the gearing setup and not the engine

Unless if I read wrongly, the 5th gear ratio with the 1.8L is larger than that of the 2.0L, both have the same final drive and same wheel size. The AT is same. So the 2.0L/MT engine should run at lower RPM at the same car speed. If both cars have the AT then they should run at the same engine RPM. But what he observes is the opposite, so it's simply due to the inaccuracy of the tach.

mdaffron · December 2003

But what about discs vs. drums?

Meade

boggse · December 2003

I was replying in general to further the discussion, not actually answer the RPM question. Sorry for the confusion.

Too bad they didn't put 4 wheel drum brakes on the Mazda3. Then it really would have been Meade's dream car.

bluong1 · December 2003

It's hard to criticize the new engine lineup used in the Mazda3. They are torquy, refined, willing to rev, and require less fuel. However I bet Meade could still find something superior with his 1.8L.

braja · December 2003

Yes, my observation is that the new protege
seems to run at a higher RPM for the same
speed as my 2000 ES with 1.8 L. BTW, both
cars have (had) 5 Spd. stick.

Just to be sure on errors on the tachometer,
I see about 3000 RPM at 65 mph and 4000 RPM at 80 mph. Can anyone with a stick corraborate this?
Thanks.

----------------------------------
Unless if I read wrongly, the 5th gear ratio with the 1.8L is larger than that of the 2.0L, both have the same final drive and same wheel size. The AT is same. So the 2.0L/MT engine should run at lower RPM at the same car speed. If both cars have the AT then they should run at the same engine RPM. But what he observes is the opposite, so it's simply due to the inaccuracy of the tach

lawman1967 · December 2003

More likely is that the cars have different gear ratios. Manufacturers commonly change gear ratios to match engine characteristics or change them. For 2002 Mitsubishi changed to slighly shorter gearing on the Galant AT for better accelleration, at the expense of some fuel economy. It would appear that Mazda did the same when they switched to the 2.0 engine.

bluong1 · December 2003

theoretically, the engine RPM of the 2.0L/MT should be 3520 @ 80mph. Mine reads 3700.

lawman: Yes the gear ratios of 1.8L and 2.0L are different as I stated above.

What kind of wheel the 1.8L has? Mazda hasn't changed the gear ratios of the FS-DE 2.0L engine since its introduction, and in fact they even carry the same MT gear ratios over the Mazda3, both engines.

snagy1 · December 2003

finally wore out my Poortenza tires, 195/55/15 is a odd ball size as local dealers are quoting me. was interested in the BF Goodrich T/A all season tires. all i really want is a good long lasting all season tire on my 2001 pro lx with 53,000 miles. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tirerack based on my size showed the Poortenza again, but no interest in them again.

boggse · December 2003

The Toyo Proxes TPT are available in 195/55R15 85V. These are the tires I plan to put on my Protege5 when it is time. They come with a 65,000 mile treadwear warranty. Unfortunately, they are about $125 each in your size on 1010tires.com. Here are some helpful links:

http://www.toyo.com/tires/tire_lines/conven_as/tpt.html
http://www.toyo.com/index.html
http://www.toyo.com/find_a_dealer/index_frame.html

A less expensive alternative may be the Sumitomo HTR+.

the_big_h · December 2003

there are a few more choices (some VERY inexpensive!) for the 195/55/15 tire size

personally I'd recommend the Falken ZIEX ZE512 for that size, they have been EXCELLENT on my 2000 Protege ES (195/55/15, the exact same wheels you have, as a matter of fact) for the last 10k, and still have a good amount of treads left.

and you'll LOVE the price for them :-)

mdaffron · December 2003

My Mazda dealer received its first shipment of Mazda3's about three hours ago, and my sales manager kept his promise and called me about five minutes after the truck arrived!

Woo-HOOOOOO!!!

I'm off work in ten minutes, digital camera in hand. But not only to take pics -- I'm gonna drive one of these puppies! As a Protege owner since 1992 (1992 LX, 2000 ES, 2002 Protege5), maybe I can give some first-hand, experienced comparison viewpoints tomorrow!

Would spend more time ... but must leave ... time to zoom ... zoom zoom ... ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!!!

Meade

P.S. What kind of car will Meade be driving to work tomorrow? Future unclear! (Especially since the sales manager said they have some "loyalty cash" for Protege owners trading up to 3's!!!)

meinrad · December 2003

If you really drive a 3 to work tomorrow I'm officially changing your name to Paul.

dinu01 · December 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031202/latu099_1.html

"IRVINE, Calif., Dec. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) today reported sales of 19,306 units in November -- a 21.9 percent increase versus the same period last year. The increase was the best November year-over-year jump for Mazda in the past decade.
The company's strong month was led by its sporty Miata roadster, which posted a 32.6 percent increase in November sales. In addition, Mazda reported sales of 6,180 units for its MAZDA6 flagship sedan. Sales of the MAZDA6, which celebrated it one-year anniversary in November, continue to build momentum."

Dinu

boggse · December 2003

I'm happy to see that miata sales are up, but everything else seems to be down a little bit. Looks like Mazda has already sold 160 of the 3. 148 were in November, so 12 must have been in October.

dinu01 · December 2003

The 6 is doing well too - and PRO sales were down close to 200 units. Considering the people knew the 3 wil be out, that must have made some hold their purchase off...

Dinu

dinu01 · December 2003

Test drove a 3 b/c the radio signal fades and the CD player skips in the PRO. Needed to kill time, plus I wanted to drive one BADLY.

So while I'm NOT getting a 3 (yet), I am getting a new radio+Cd player> dealer ordered one yesterday.

So far, at 68.880kms, this will be my 2nd radio/Cd on the PRO and if I count the 2 rear brake bulbs that went out this summer and the spoiler's LEDs that were rplaced in 2001, I guess this can hasn't been that bad in 69.000kms.

Gotta love the PRO! And my dealer

Dinu

mdaffron · December 2003

... of my experience yesterday afternoon with a Mazda3s wagon, starting with post 4095 over on the Mazda3 discussion.

Pat, you'll be happy to note that I'm NOT going to cross-post it here!

Happy reading everyone!

Meade
2000 Protege ES
2005 Mazda3s wagon

mdaffron · December 2003

Has everyone jumped ship to the Mazda3 discussion?

You may be drooling over a 3, but you still own a Protege! Get back here and give some credit to your current zoom-mobile!

Alas, I remember fondly the months we had this discussion at the top of the Town Hall ... now, (sniff) we can't even get one single post in 24 hours ... oh, the pain.

Whatever happened to Larry and his, "Hey, let's make it to 10,000 by 2 p.m.!" challenges? O Larry, where art thou? How about a group hug? Speaking of which, where's Dale? Dale? Ah, my feeble voice echoes down the vacant corridor. So sad.

Still loving Zoomster at just a hair under 68,000 miles. And doggone it, I really need to get him in for his 60,000-mile service!

Meade

meinrad · December 2003

Well, tonight and tomorrow I'll finally find out about the snow performance of the Ziex 512's. Rain, freezing rain, snow, and utilmately about 1-3" by Saturday afternoon.

I'm really looking forward to it since I had decided not to get snow tires this year.

Rain performance has been outstanding, and if snow performance is at least decent, which is about all I really would expect, then I'll be pretty darn happy and Ashu can rest easily for at least 5k more miles.

mdaffron · December 2003

Since I did my 30K-mile service at 33K, I'm really only about 5K past due for the 60K.

I have kept up-to-date on my syn-oil and air filter changes though. But it's definitely time for new plugs.

Meade

boggse · December 2003

I replaced the one in my P5 last weekend. I couldn't believe how dirty the old one was a 14K miles. I guess I will have to switch to every 10k or so. After the filter change, fuel economy went up ~2-3 mpg, and it felt a little peppier too.

Ted

Mazda Protegé

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