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Comments
First, they really are that good. At least comparable nowadays to anything else on the road. As far as pricing goes...
Right now, if you shop hard, I think you can find a slightly miley XJ8, a '98 for about $25K. That's for an SWB with miles in the 40s-50s. It also helps a lot if you like Racing Green or Black Metallic (Anthracite) A Topaz or White one with 25-30K is gonna be in the low $30Ks.
If you can swing $35K.. you can find a low mile 98 VDP now, prices on them have fallen a lot in the last few months. Depends what you want. I'd say that you can do pretty much anything in a 98 short of an XK or XJR. Depends on what you want really.
98+s are a lot nicer, but not really any better. All of the 95+s are really that good. Dpends on what you want I suppose.
Oh, as far as brakes go.. that's correct about the silicone. That being said, I've found that JAGUAR pads work the best.
Bill
My new Jag doesn't have that slightly irritating issue. I got used to it in the XJS, but still it is kind of a letdown to drive up to the valet parking of a fashionable restaurant and stop with squaky brakes.... :-)
My advice is to look at the XJ8L or VDP, because those have the longer wheelbase. I'm only 5'7", and I put my driver's seat all the way back (in my SWB '95 XJ6), reducing backseat legroom. The LWB adds 4-5" to backseat legroom.
As for the Infiniti, it's comfortable, reliable, and IMHO, boring. Go for the Jaguar. Other than its great looks, class, and relative uniqueness, remember that Jaguar was 1st in '99, and 2nd in '01, in JD Power's Initial Quality Study. The '95+ Jaguars are very reliable cars, despite popular conception to the contrary.
Unless it's a special order car (Good luck finding one) You'll need to go 96 or back to get a BRG VDP.
So if it's gotta be BRG... XJ8 or XJ8L.
However Jade Green is the prettiest ) (Me and 97vdpguy have Jade VDPs)
Let us know what ya find pricewise before you go pulling the trigger. In the past literally 90 days the market on these cars has fallen a lot... so be careful.
Bill
drop over the pass month. I'm waiting until I can
get my garage built before I make my purchase. The
local Ford Dealer has a low miles white 98 XJ8 VDP
that they are asking $39,000 but the car has been sitting on their lot for five months now maybe I should go by an make an offer.
I found a '99 Topaz/Ivory VDP with 34K for a tad north of $35K on e-bay. Had great help from the service managers in the region (Texas) on the history of the car and found out more than I could about the Jaguars on my local lot.
I'm aware of a '99 VDP with about 18K on the odo that is on e-bay at a "buy it now" price of $38.5K (for price reference) from a (independent) upper-end dealer in Houston that has great comments on e-bay. If you see something you like, make sure to check out the comments from buyers who have done business with the seller on e-bay (Or you could bypass all of this and just buy the car from Bill).
With Carfax you can see when a car was put in service to gauge the time left on the 50K Mile/4 Year warranty.
Purchasing is a very personal decision and risk is involved on the internet (as well as your local lot) but the savings can be significant if the homework is done. Also, the Jaguar service network seems to be a quality operation which helps with that risk.
There are also very good resources here.
It seems to be a decent price. The only real negative I've heard about early 90's XJ's is to stay away from the V-12 and not because it's not a sweet engine but that it is very costly when something does go wrong.
As far as what specifically to look out for, hopefully someone more qualified will respond.
To most consumers, it's a non-metallic, flat, bland, dark color. These days, Light colors are in (Especially here in Florida) and people want a Silver, Topaz, Mistral, etc Jaguar. At least those are the colors that break the bank at the auction. Recently a friend of mine had to have an XJ8. Had like $22K to spend. I told him.. "Well... uhh.. you care if it's got some miles and is like Black on Black or British Racing Green?" He WANTED a BRG car. Ended up with a 62K mile one. Heck, I've seen 2 identical XJ8Ls run, both clean, no paintwork, One Topaz/Oatmeal, one BRG/Cashmere. $2,500 difference.
I think Topaz is ugly myself, and BRG is a truly classic color. However, color is highly subjective and most people like Topaz, Silver, etc... andthink BRG is ugly.
Oh well, its' a free country!
Kevin, sounds like a deal. Is it an XJ6 (No sunroof) or a Sovereign?
Make sure diff is quiet, no BAD oil leaks at base of distributor and that the AC works aside from everything else.
If a Sovereign, VDP or VDP Majestic (SUPER Rare) make sure it's had the rear self-levellers converted...
Watch for rust too, but its' a great car.
Bill
I paid $36,000 out the door for my VDP. I added the 6-CD changer and the non-Jaguar warranty (5more years/100,000 miles) as part of that price.
Good Luck!
They're actually worth a touch less than VDPs. The 94+ 6.0 Engine is very good, but it still reuires a fair bit of maintience, does NOT tolerate abuse (ESPECIALLY Overheating) and drinks premium unleaded like a drunken sailor.
Scary when you saw that they cost new...
Still the world's smoothest engine tho.
Bill
the car is a white 98 XJ8 Vander Plas with
26,000 miles on it they dropped the price from
39,475 to 38,070 and the price is pretty firm
according to the salesmen I spoke with. The car
was purchase at a Dealer auction and the
Dealership is Briarwood Ford in Saline Michigan.
The interior is very traditional jaguar in design, much more so than the S-Type. But the materials are not of high quality. Hard plastic on the centre console, hard black buttons and the leather was pitiful. That is NOT Connely leather. It felt like a leatherette, and I tried it both in the 2.5 and 3.0L with a sport package. That was the biggest dissapointment, but I guess I am comparing it to my XJ which is not a fair comparison. Otherwise, the wood is nice and the design is niceley executed.
I'll have to drive one to see what I ultimately think, but I think they will have a home run on their hands. True Jag enthusiasts like ourselves will never accept it, but the people who Jaguar is looking for is not us. They already have us in the flagship, they are looking at a yuppy crowd. It think it will murder C-Class sales, but not so much BMW. The BMW is a true enthusiasts car, and even though the X-Type has a stick, it still isn't RWD and sport tuned. Anyway, it's a great little car for someone who has always wanted a jaguar and couldn't afford it. With a base price of $42,00 CDN for a 2.5, that is going to get a lot of people into one~ A.R.
Try again on the leather. All Jaguars use connely leather, and unlike the BMW it is a standard feature. Of course there will be slighlty less expensive materials in a low $30,000 car than a low $60,000 car.
I said this once before in another forum, but I'll say it again. The All of the X-types currently touring North America are Pre-prodution prototypes as such the fit, finish, and materials are not up to the standards of the final production cars.
This car is not aimed at the XJ buyer, just like a, 7-series is not aimed at a 3-series buyer. The X-Type is aimed at the sport sedan buyer who wants the security of AWD and the heritage of Jaguar.
The one you're looking at should have the Select Service warranty which will take you to 5 years/50,000 miles. This will give you two years of full Jaguar warranty coverage which should cover any glitches you find. VDP's are nice. You'll enjoy it.
Remember, these babies have plummeted recently. IMHO, $35-36K is more in line if not certified.
A Ford dealer also cannot sell as a Select Edition (Which is a 6yr/100K mile warranty from original sale date)
Bill
1) what type of brake pads to use? Metal Masters or Jaguar?
2) what type of oil filters to use? Jaguar or any other brand?
3) what type and weight of oil to use?
4) where is a good place to get discounted genuine Jag parts?
5) Is 91 octane gas mandatory or can I use 89 octance ethanol?
Thanks.
Rick.
If you love the VDP on the lot.....buy it. You will love the car. Make sure to check the on service date for remaining warranty (4 year) period.
But I have to roll with Bill on this, your paying near the top.
P.S. Congrats Rick!
OK... the list:
1) While I love Metal Masters... Go with Jag pads. Try www.jagbits.com or www.coventrywest.com for prices. Also, if you do them yourself, bleed the fluid when you push the piston back in the caliper. You do NOT want to mess-up that $1,500 ABS Valve body!
2) Jag filters. Also Crosland and UNIPART filters are basically the same with different paint. Again, see above for some sources. They are, unfortunately, not cheap. Retail is roughly $12 each from the dealer.
3) Castrol GTX. Its' factory fill, and well, British Even if its' probably made in Texas or something. Good stuff, and Jaguar seals like it. 10W30 works for you, 10W40 for me in a Florida summer. Double-check your owner's manual for temp ranges tho.
4) A #1
5) 91. Run the premium. Unless you're in a high-alitude area (Which I doubt, from my info Omaha is only about 1,000 feet above sea level.) and 90 is the highest. Then 89 is OK. Otherwise, well... the knock sensors USUALLY work... But.. it is designed for premium. Keep the good stuff in it and she's gonna be happy.
Be careful with the alignment, you may want to have the dealer do this provided they can properly pre-load the car. Jags need to be pre-loaded.. I.E. carefully weighted and such to be aligned.
Good luck and congrats again! After a few thousand miles you'll never want to drive anything else.
Bill
95 Vanden Plas 127,000 beat-it-to-hell miles
Now? A 22K mile Red one recently did $22K at auction here (XJ6).
But the market is down. However, good color and low miles are very very paramount on Jags. A Madeira or Amaranth 98 VDP with 50-60K will still struggle to do $24-25K on a GREAT day at the auction (Well, great for the seller). Meanwhile, $33K is what it'll take to buy a White, Topaz, or maybe Sapphire one in immaculate condition with super low miles.
Jaguars are very "mileage sensitive" cars. A high mile one is often tough to unload. A Low mile one in a good color is always worth top dollar and very easy to sell.
If that 99 Was Silver, White or Topaz it would have sold and It wouldnt have sold for $38,500. Black kills it.
Bill
That's probably the situation for you, Sho3. Do with the info what you need but your dealership is firm because they're probably in the same boat.
My local guys still have the car. They've run weekend ads for a month and a half at $27,995. I'm guessing the "flooring" is stacking up.
I'll be pulling into their sevice center tomorrow with my wife's '99 VDP just delivered from Texas for 7.5k more.
Not my fault they're not buying like Bill.
They keep depreciating. I got burned BADLY by the Firestone thing last year or so.
Right when the news hit I had just picked up 4 Expeditions at the sale... OUCH. Lost something like $9K just dumping them.
Ya know. This business never ceases to amaze me. I've been doing this since 1996, for 5 years. And ya know.. I'm usually the youngest guy at the auction, I know I'm the youngest guy in the country (Family members of owners excluded) who owns a piece of the Franchise that I have.
And it amazes me. I see these idiots. 10..15..20..30..years in this business who do flat--out RETARDED things. Like keep a car for 7 months.
What are these guys THINKING? Right now, Market, IMHO, on that car is $26-27K Max as a certified car. But the problem is... People who want XJ6s want to buy them for cheap. Why? because there's lots of XJ8s advertised out there for under $30K.
One thing thats' always stuck in my head as gospel is inventory turn. At my franchise stores we have a rule (Bill has a small part of each store but I am lord of all I survey in the used car dept). If we have a car in stock for 30 days and nobody is written up on it (enters negotations), to the auction/wholesaler/etc it goes. Gone. Done, bye bye! Get the heck off of my lot!
After 45 days I dont care. Unless I have a customer standing in front of me ready to buy it, it goes to the next scheduled auction. Until then it has a price painted on the windsheild that is exactly $500 over cost on it.
My guess is that they were holding out to whack someone for something like $33,995 on that car and got greedy. That or the car is a pig and they shouldn't have bought it to begin with. That or you find something like a Ford dealer with a big ego who has to have a 2 year old Jaguar on his lot. Fine if its' for a manager or dealer or dealer's wife to drive.. otherwise, poor management.
We recently took in a 99 SL500 on trade against a Yukon Denali XL at the Pontiac/GMC store.That thing went to a wholesaler I know faster than I could blink. Why? If you were looking for a $60K used Mercedes, would ya stop at the Pontiac dealer? neither would I.
And I wouldnt go down the street to the BMW Dealer and look for a nice Grand Am
I blame those two guys... they're the ones dumb enough to be buried in those cars. And now that the cars are retailing for less than they wholesaled for a few months back...
Oh well...
Not my problem But just because theyre burined inthe cars... that doesnt mean you ought to pay for their mistakes IMO.
Bill
Do you actually own a dealership in the traditional sense (building, employees, sales staff, etc), or are you a private dealer who buys and sells cars?
You're extremely knowledgeable. I wish I had discovered this forum BEFORE I bought my car. But what a grand hobby you have! Not only do you get to drive great cars, you always have new ones to play with!
What a country!
Can I retrofit this kind of mirror onto my 97 VDP?
It's a novelty, but I do miss the compass display that my old Grand Cherokee used to have.
Business principles apply no matter what industry you're in......can you imagine some of these folks in the computer business?!?!?! OUCH!
You didnt do badly on the VDP ya got, and sounds like you bought a creampuff.
BTW, Where did you buy it from?
As far as the mirror.. I have no idea for sure, but I'd imagine... heck.. I dunno.. ask the dealer
Yes, I own percentages of 2 Stores in the southeast. a VW and a Pontiac-GMC store.
It is fun, I love what I do!
Bill
Not even a Select? God I feel bad for them...I'd love to see those guys in the INVESTMENT Business! Ouch!
Bill
I live in Northern Virginia. I got the VDP at Rosenthal Jaguar in McLean. They typically have about 10-20 used Jags on the lot. They have another Jade '97 VDP advertized in last Sunday's paper. Didn't list the price though.
The only thing I question about mine is that when I had it detailed two weeks ago, the person doing the detailing pointed out some very small "pimples" in the paint on the left-rear panel. After reading your article on spotting paintwork, I think I also see evidence of masking tape on the fender under the trunk lid. I'm now wondering if the car had some work done before I bought it. The panels seem to line up ok and the VIN numbers are intact.
It came back clean on Carfax. The dealer won't tell me the extent of any service work it had prior to my purchase. It was previously sold and serviced by the same dealership. They just confirmed for me that it had the Select Warranty service inspection performed and the 30K mi service (twice!). Interesting that they would do the Select inspection procedure when they knew the car was beyond the service period (missed it by 4 months!). Does that mean they may have found, but not fixed items? Maybe I should go chat up my service manager some more..
Without seeing the car its' tough to tell. Ona Jag if the VIN tags are there then generally it means it hasnt been torqued.
It might be touch-up...
I used to run cars through the SE process een if I couldnt certify them (Too old.. too many miles). Actually, when any Jag we got in on trade ran through the shop it was always written as a select check. Maybe it's just the way their system works..
Bill
and with the newer Jaguars increase reliability
a higher mileage car is probably the way I will
go. Besides I really don't care for the color white, Titanium, Black and the various shades of red are the color I desire.
Carfax will not always list a car repair history.
When I purchase my SHO it had a clean carfax
history. Ford fleet vehicle sold at auction,
the car was in an accident and Ford instead
of repairing the car sold it at an auction.
The car was purchase by the owner of a body
shop repaired and sold to me, who did not discover
the repair history until later. Carfax is a good
source of info but nothing takes the place
of a good mechanic.
As an update, I just had the left inner tie rod end replaced and the alignment done. The cabin vibration that was present before the work is now gone, as is the 1-2 inch play in the steering wheel, and I'm happy about that. However, the car now pulls noticeably to the left (to the point that I need to keep nudging the wheel right to avoid drifting), even after the alignment and balancing were done. There was very little pull before the work. And yes, I do have the dreaded wire wheels (but they look so nice!) Any ideas before I take it back to the shop? Are the wire wheels that tough to balance?
On the audio front--I still haven't checked for the plug, Bill, but after looking at your message for the third time I finally realized that you said, "by the gas tank", while I was looking for a plug near the battery. Duhhhh...I'll find it today, I'm sure. I received the CD changer, and a friend promises to help me mount it above the battery.
Thanks!
Craig
93 XJ40 81K
Also, the reason I asked on the weight of oil is because the dealer said to use 10-30. He said if I use 10-40 I would ruin something with the valves (I think he said guides or seals or something like that, I just wasn't paying as much attention as I should have been). He said I would ruin the motor if I used 10-40. Have you heard of this?
When you say "hard" miles, what exactly do you mean? High rpm's, a lot of stop and go?
Lastly where are you located in Florida? I will be down there for the first week in July and if you are close to where I will be I thought it might be nice to meet you since you have been such a great help.
Thanks,
Rick (loving every minute of driving his new Jag).
The shop didnt pre-load the suspension when they aligned the car and I bet the camber is all... (I cant say the word here)ed up. Toe VERY rarely causes a pull, it's camber which does, specifically cross-camber. You could have 3degrees of positive or negative at each front wheel and the car wouldnt pull. But, say you have 0 degrees negative at the left and 2 degrees negative at the right. That's 2 degrees of cross camber and the car will now pull (in this case almost violently) to the left.
Have the alignment rechecked. And yes those bloody wires, in my experience, are tough to balance.
I promise I'll grab a pic of what the plug looks like
Bill
Oh, CASTROL GT/LMA BRAKE FLUID ONLY!!!! It works MUCH better with english rubber.
And on XJ40s (Which use the AJ6 engine), 10W30 is really too light. In the X300s (Which use the updated AJ16 engine), they do like the lighter oils. 10W40 wont wreck your engine. I use it in the summertime here in Florida because.. well.. I run the hell out of the car and it's always 90+. Unless you're in a really hot climate like me, I think 10W30 is fine.
I live in Orlando, when ya gonna be down here? I'd love to grab a snack or beer or something! Let me know! Best way to reach me is my cell.. 407-492-4854 I tend to be lazy with my e-mail
As far as hard miles go.. I basically drive the heck out of the thing. Always full throttle, I drive like a complete maniac. I also like knocking the car sideways through corners and stuff. I really beat on it.. but.. it's fun
The other day I took it to Miami and made it back from Aventura (225 miles I think) to Orlando in 3 hours even. Including a stop for gas ))
Bill
Rick.
I'll see ya then! You driving or flying? If flying... I know a great cheap car rental place in town.
Also, you can rent Jags from Budget and Hertz if ya wanna splurge
Bill
What color is it? And Where is it?
Bill
Bill