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I have concluded that, in the specific case of Kia Sedona and Hankook RA07 (H speed rated) and Bridgestone Turanza LS-T (T speed rated) tires in stock P215/70R15 size, the safety margin is no better with the Hankook than with the Bridgestone. Perhaps more accurately, the Bridgestone will provide enough safety margin to allow me to sleep well at night.
I base this on several factors:
1. Perceived quality of the Turanza LS-T tire line.
2. Our Sedona is never driven above 80 mph.
3. Specs of several P215/70R15 tires as follows:
Brand / Model / Speed Rating / Treadwear Rating / Trac rating / Temp rating / Max Load (lbs) / Max pressure (psi) / Price per tire
Hankook RA07 H 440 A B 1653lbs 35psi $58
Kumho 798 H 440 A B -- -- $55 (info not specified on tirerack.com)
Bridgestone Turanza LS-T T 700 A B 1620 44 $83
Michelin Hydroedge T 760 A B 1620 35 $102
Michelin Energy MXV4 V 340 A A 1609 44 $135
Comparing the tire with the max and the min load rating - Is there any real difference between a tire rated for max load of 1653 pounds vs. a tire rated for max load of 1609 pounds? This seems like an insignificant difference.
I was surprised to see the H-rated Hankook rated for max 35 psi while the T-rated Turanza was rated max 44 psi.
Traction and temperature ratings for all 5 tires were the same: A traction and B temperature.
We put Turanza LS-Ts on our Sedona rather than a new set of Hankook RA07, even though I had no gripes with the Hankooks and a set of 4 would have saved us about $100. Why? Because in spite of the Turanzas' T speed rating, I felt they were better tires and were perfectly safe for our Sedona.
Secondly, my wife is kicking me for not getting the EX for the captains chairs. Our 1 and 3 year old are in too close proximity in the middle seat as they don't leave eachother alone, and the rear seat is too far back. I read from someone else here that they wished to remove the middle seat and move the rear set to the middle. I too wish we could do this but the latches on the floor do not match up. The only option I can think of is to try and pick up some captains chairs from a wrecked Sedona EX. The floor latches are there, so it would work. Am I correct in understanding that the cloth grey seats are different between the EX and LX?
And lastly, I want to get a second set of wheels so I can have a set for snow tires. There is a nice set of Kia Amanti wheels on Ebay and I'm wondering if the Sedona shares wheel offset and lug dimentions with other Kia vehicles.
Thanks for any information anyone can share.
- Chad
If I had been in the car when the fire started ( or my daughters which were only out of the car 10 minutes before the blaze started we surely would have been burned or killed. The fire chief stated it was an eletrical problem with the car that started the fire, and another two or three minutes and it would have exploded.
Now for the best part. Kia refuses to talk to us about this problem. We called them an hour after it happened, ,and we have e-mailed them pictures, and the police report. We are still waiting for the official report from the fire chief. We have contacted our dealer, and Kia directly and the case has been turned over to someone , but the operaters at the Kia customer service hotline will not give me a name. or a contact number. This is madness. What good is their warranty, if they will not back it up.
Anyway for those of you that have a Sedona already, I pray that you will not have to go through the agony that my family is experiencing. If you are thinking of buying one I would not suggest it, these cars are a death trap waiting to happen.
Also just a note the car was totally stock. there was no after market equipment ever installed in the vehicle. Oh, and yes we have alredy contacted a lawyer!!!
Steve, Host
I am dissapointed you had such a traumatic experience. If that event happened to me I suppose I'd use similar if not stronger language in opposition to Kia's Sedona.
I imagine you are a one in a million case otherwise NHTSA would be all over the Sedona. I've seen all kinds of cars on the side of the road over the years that flamed to nothing. I wouldn't call the Sedona a death trap anymore than I'd call the Toyota Camry I saw once burned up once either. Sometimes good products malfunction.
We owned an '02 Sedona for a while then traded for an '04 and have had some nuisance problems(mostly with the crappy dealer) but we still enjoy the Sedona. I just hope if it ever does take a dump on us it wont be as dramatic as yours.
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
Sounds like an interesting story you have to tell. Do tell :-)
Craig
I'm sure the emotions and adrenalin are still running high, but death trap? Madness? Although your wife's reaction to open the door was very typical, the fire folks tell you not to open doors to your house that have smoke/heat because the increased oxygen/fresh air can cause the flames to break out.
If your description was correct, and your children had been in the car, would you really have continued driving when smoke came out the vents, or would you have pulled over and unloaded everyone from the vehicle?
I'm sorry you feel like a victim but this is exactly why Americans have become a litigous society and the lawyers run roughshod over everything. You carry car insurance, let them and "their" lawyers work it out with Kia. Meanwhile drive on with your life.
BTW, I fought a car fire at my father's service station many years ago, and again roadside with a trucker not so many years ago. Once they start to burn, you won't put one out with typical home extinguishers, no matter what size/class...just too much to burn.
I had a brand new aircraft with 60 flight hours on it blow up on me in the air and dump me out into the slipstream at 500mph...I flew 10 days later, as soon as I got my arm out of the sling and didn't call Grumman products death traps and warn other aviators to stay away...sometimes good products just have hidden defects and malfunction.
I am not trying to start a free fire zone here, but this isn't a Pinto/exploding gas tank situation here, and unless yours happens to be the tip of a "Kia hidden defect" iceburg, I think you are overreacting a bit.
1)I never stated that the car was in the garage. the car, it was in fact in the driveway.
2) The car did not start smoking until I pulled into my driveway. I had just dropped my kids off at school. If the car had started smoking while they were in the car, or while I was driving on the street, I would have shut it off, and pulled over and evaxcuated the car.
3) There was no warning of an eletrical problem, until the car started smoking.
4) How is this Kia's problem... hmmmmm.... let's see the car only had 9 years and 80k miles left on the warranty. No, you are right I should just go on with my life and let my insurance company cut me a check that will not payoff my loan, replace the same car ( KIa's reasale value is terrible in comparison to other similar vehicles), or fix the driveway I just had repaved for $1000.00.
5) The car door was opened to let the smoke out of the car. We did not know the fire had started or that there was even a potential fire until the door was open and this happened after the panic had sounded
6) I also found two other people who have had their Sedona's catch fire as well. Hidden defect....???
7) Since Kia will not tell me what they intend on doing ( I finally spoke to someone who promised to call me back with a decision yesterday, as they are aware this is their responsibility, and they never bothered), yes I think a lawyer is necessary.
8) "There appears to have been plenty of warning to move the vehicle out of your garage and away from the house including when you first noticed smoke coming out of the vents. How was this part Kia's fault?"
This is the dumbest statement I have ever heard. The car is one year old. It certainly is not my fault, and as far as getting in the car and moving it, it took less than five minutes for the whole event to take place.
Every message board has at least one person who knows everything and posts messages without even reading and acknowledging the full content of the post. You have no idea what we have been through and if you had any clue, you would've thought twice about the comments you made.
You will note that I refrain from personal attacks in my posts, and suggest you do the same in the future.
BTW, if you haven't looked into it, your homeowners insurance probably will cover your driveway damage, minus the deductible.
This post probably belongs on the Kia Problems board, so apologize to the group/host in advance.
navyair is a frequent contributor to the Sedona forums. He/she is not a know-it-all and is quite a helpful and even-keeled poster. His/her response to your post was a little strong, but I felt it was mostly on target, save for the part where he thought your car was in the garage when this happened.
I do agree with you that a lawyer is probably needed in this situation. I also agree with navyair that our society has become overly litigious.
I have no more fear of my Sedona catching fire in my garage than I would if I had a Chrysler or GM in there.
As I mentioned in a previous post, Had that happened to me I'd expect Kia to step up and do the right thing and not only replace my vehicle, but repair my driveway IN ADDITION to compensating me for "Loss of use".
The only way I could imagine Kia not willingly do this is if there were modifications done that caused the failure.
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
Oh I was just trying to make a point that no car company is perfect. There will always be defective cars whether its honda or kia or whatever. I thought I would just mentioned Honda since there is a big discussion going on in the honda cr-v and has honda run out forum about cr-v's catching fire after the first oil change but no one calls them death traps.
I am sure that Navyair was just trying to provide some information, but I took it the wrong way, and saw it as a personal attack. For this I apologize to Navyair as well.
Anyway, we did finally hear from Kia Motors of America, and they rejected our claim (without even asking us any question or even viewing the police or fire report), so we are proceeding with a law suit. We have also contacted the attorney general of N.Y.S., the N.H.T.S.A. and about a dozen other consumer advocate groups. My main complaint is that Kia advertises how great their warranty is, and if this isn't a defect, than what is???? We should actually make a service appointment for warranty work at the dealership. Can you imagine the look on their faces?
So in closing, my apologies and respect to all who have read our story, and posted their views on it.
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
I'm very curious to hear how this turns out; please keep us posted. Obviously, Kia owes you a new van and I don't see how an impartial observer could see otherwise. It seems Kia would have to prove the problem was caused by user negligence or something like that, and that does not seem to be the case.
What vehicles are you considering as a replacement for your Sedona?
To me it makes me wonder what kind of company Kia is? If you look at the list of problems that people have had and how poorly they are compensated it is unreal. I feel like we were treated very unjustly, and it seems we are not the only ones.
In response to bluedevils, I do not know what kind of vehicle to get at this time. We have three kids so a minivan is really convenient. The crazy thing is that we thought the Sedona was a great car. The whole family liked everything about. Trying to equip a minivan with all the options we had would cost us somewhere between 35-40k if we wanted to get something like a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota ( which have much better resale values). Is any car worth paying that much for???? I mean at this point I would have a hard time believing in any warranty. We might just go with Chrysler. At this point I just have no idea.
No one inspected the car, because quite frankly they do not give a damn. Even though the fire inspectors report states it was an eletrical fire that started in the dashboard, they stated that they could not be sure that it was in fact the cause of the fire. Since they did not inspect the car how could they be sure. You would think that there would be some concern on there behalf. As I have previously stated we did find at least two other stories online that people that owned Sedona's had experienced the same kind of occurence, and Kia didn't want anything to do with their cases either and referred them to there insurance company. To me that is scary. I understand that this is only a few cars out of thousands, but don't you think that they would show some concern. I am sure if someone was injured in one of these caeses they would being singing a different song. Any opinions??
At this point the car is still in my driveway because we were hoping Kia would take care of this, and figured they would need to inspect the vehicle. It took almost two weeks for them to even acknowledge they were reviewing our claim. It is heartbreaking to see what used to be our transportation sitting there every time we open our door. Our bank is sending an inspector over today to check out the damage, and then we are moving it to a friends yard until we have figured out what needs to be done.
As a consumer we feel like we have no power at all, and that is why we are forced to get a lawyer. We would have dropped the whole issue if they would have replaced the vehicle.
Where did the fire started under the hood or in the ventilation system?.
You can buy a base leftover Sienna 2004 that have most of the features of the Sedona for a MSRP of 3-4K more than the Kia and the Toyota has a better fuel economy; also it is a lot roomier and the ride is better on top of the better resale
value. There is already big discount on the Caravan 2005 here in Canada and i`m sure it is the same thing over the border.
Good luck with your negotiations with Kia.
Also thank you for the advice about a new vehicle. We will certainly check into the Sienna prices.
We had the Hankook's on our '02 Sedona and also on our '04 Sedona as well. After much research in addition to my own personal experience with them I recommend them.
Hankook and Michelin do a tremendous amount of business together. I learned that Michelin actually contracts with Hankook to make many of the Michelin tires for Michelin. This to me says alot if a leading tire company like Michelin hires Hankook to make many of their tires.
In addition, The '02 Sedona we had drove great with the Hankook's. Our '04 had a vibration problem when new but it was the dealers incompentance and not the tire.
Tire rack has them for something on the order of $55? In my oinion its a great value(price/quality).
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
John
I dont know anything about the Optimo's. The model we have is the RAO7's that come on most Sedona's. Tire rack lists them for $58 each. If the Optimos are an 80,000 mile tire the Pep boys deal is probably pretty good.
If I can offer a little advice......Buy tires from an outfit that has a "Roadforce" type balancer. Conventional balancers if calibrated correctly are fine but Hunter makes a Balancer than measures other irregularities in the tire and can help the installer make your car ride smooth as silk.
Craig
I then went to NAPA auto parts and they sold me one for about $14.00 which the sales person said was a bit of a discount. NAPA's filters are made by WIX and this filter has made in Korea on it so was probably made by the original equipment maker.NAPA's part # is 2086 and WIX's number is 42086"
My dealer wanted $35 for a stock air filter. I bought two (one and a spare) at NAPA for $18.95 each. NAPA had to order the parts, but it only took 24hrs to get them. It is a quick change...less than 5 min with a screwdriver and easy access.
Thanks. I called a local auto parts dealer, O'Reilly, and he did mention WIX with the same part number. Cost $19.99, at least $10 less than what the local Kia dealer is asking.
More questions if you don't mind.
1. How about the Transmission fluid, where have you done yours? Our van is a little over 50K miles and we have plans on having another road trip very soon.
2. Also, have you replaced your belts yet (not the timing belt)?
Thanks in advance.
My understanding is that Kia uses its own brand of fluid, so you may have to obtain the fluid from the parts dept if you cannot locate an aftermarket source for it.
I haven't changed my belts yet, as the van just rolled over 31k. I normally change out the belts and hoses at the same time, usually around 4 yrs. Occasionally, I've had to replace the belts on other vehicles more frequently.
I armor all my hoses when I change the oil, which gives me a chance to look for leaks, cracks and wipe down any extra dirt...it seems to make a difference in unscheduled replacement of stuff, and keeps the chance of a break down minimized.
The Kia manual is on line if you want to take a look at how difficult those jobs are. (Shouldn't be too hard.)
Got my air filter. I also talked to a kia service rep to inquire about the transmission power flush. He said it would cost around $160! The last time i had my transmission oil changed was like 2 years ago in PA and can't remember how much i paid for it.
Is it wise to have it done in, like a PEPBOYS or VALVOLINE shops or something?
Thanks in advance.
I don't think I'd try a quick lube for transmission service unless I knew the mechanic and was comfortable with him/her...have heard too many horror stories about missing plugs, underfills, leaky seals, etc.
If I were going to have the transmission serviced by anyone but myself or the dealer, it would be a transmission shop like Cottmans, AAMCO, etc. Even then, I'd make sure they knew Kia's unique fluid requirement and understood it. I've been using Cottmans for years and have found them fair priced and knowledgeable. They should replace the pan gasket and transmission filter at that time.
If you plan on keeping your vehicle a long time, it can't hurt to change it every 25-30,000 miles or two years.
I feel your pain on the flush. I told the Mrs. to call around to the 3 different dealers in our area to inquire about the 30k service (she didn't) and we got a bill for $500, including $98/hr for labor. Basically, they changed the fluids and lubed the door locks.
Anyway, they adjusted the tire pressure and did the oil/filter change. No problems (I checked oil level the day after), but during the fill the guy splattered some oil. I could just enough below the bottom of the hood. He got some on himself, which he wiped off. He did not wipe off any in the engine bay of our Sedona. Disappointing.
Has any one of you experienced this before?
I did not hear any ticking afterwards, however I did not let the van sit as long as you did. The longer a vehicle sits without running the more likely there will be oil starvation in the valves for a short time until you have full oil pressure again. It probably doesn't cause much damage, but over long periods of time could cause premature wear.
- Chad
I've tried stuffing a few rags on top of the subframe, sliding a cut-off plastic milk carton bottom to catch the extra oil, etc etc. But the mess associated with this do-it-yourself project has pushed me to have a shop do the job instead of me. This is disappointing, because changing the oil in our own vehicles makes me feel like I know what I am doing.
I don't remember for sure, but the OEM filter on our 2002 Sedona did seem to be longer than the replacements I have purchased (mostly Purolator Pure One).
If you are running Mobil 1, make sure you don't change the oil too often or you will simply be wasting money and missing out on the benefits of this excellent synthetic oil.
That crossbar being in the way really makes for a messy oil change. This is what I do...I take a plastic trash bag and fold it up lengthwise so it just wraps around the crossbar (seam on the bottom...rulling parallel to the crossbar). I then use a piece or 2 of duct tape to keep it from moving. After the oil is finished dripping I wipe the excess oil from top of the bag, then remove the tape and bag - leaving the crossbar oil-free!!! Give it a try!!!
p.s. - just ordered 2 air filters from NAPA - will be in today.
2002 Sedona EX - 16,000 miles and counting
BTW, i saw the commercial of the 2005 Honda Odyssey and it is somehow similar to the Sedona. Or maybe i'm wrong.
I loosen the filter with the filter wrench first. Then I wrap a small sandwich bag around the filter and start to loosen by hand moving the bag around with the filter. As the oil starts to drip/pour, it drips goes into the bag. When the filter is loose, I let it drop into the bag and pull the entire mess down without any oil getting out of the bag.
at 19000 on my 2003 EX i had picked up a screw in the road and had plugged. but in the mean time had the spare on and i was very uncomfortable with the body marks in the sidewall from being in the tire cradle. since i carry heavy pottery long distance, i worry about road construction and such blowing out the sidewall and lost complete faith in the old tires. needless to say ive slept fine ever since, and a fine van drives even MORE smoothly. now that im back i plan to do my mobil one this week, have it all ready. i do mine 2X year (even on my previous Sephia) spring and fall. i do notice that by those times the oil is indeed nasty dark color. so, being synthetic, am i too often, overdue, or just right for approx. 9500 a year?
also did the air filter, got the WIX for $22 a few weeks ago and glad i did - the old was plugged up with bugs and pebbles/winter sand.
"thank you" to everyone's great posts here.
If you do 9500 miles a year and change with Mobil One twice a year your good to go. I have yet to switch to Synthetic since I like to change the oil every 3000 miles anyway. For some sick sadistic reason I enjoy doing oil changes. :-)
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-10-04-car-value-category- -winners-chart.htm
Craig
'04 Sedona EX
We are looking at minivans right now and leaning heavily toward the Sedona. Seems like you can't beat the features and value.