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Just my 2 cents (and that's what it's probably worth!)
Watch for new Cayenne ads during the US Open (link, Chicago Sun Times).
Steve, Host
I'm sure that the "brains" there know this and that when the supply reaches a critical point they will have to make a program. If not they are really charging a premium to the lease clients.
Maybe the V6 will be more aggressively priced.
Steve, Host
I'm sure that the "brains" there know this and that when the supply reaches a critical point they will have to make a program. If not they are really charging a premium to the lease clients.
Maybe the V6 will be more aggressively priced.
I used to do that myself and had basically determined my car choices by lease payment until I tested the Cayenne, it changed me.
I fell in love with this car and bought one, I decided to buy it instead of leasing for financial reasons tho, the tax break.
The lease rates I was offered were better than those offered by BMW (I was not looking for a 3.0 which is more retail oriented but for the 4.4 which BMW control supply tightly of to maintain pricing) FYI You can get a Cayenne for about 740 per month lease.
I agree
Porsche traditionally was an enthusiasts car; and people bought because they "wanted to own the car"
However, times have changed, and a lot of people would lease a Porsche if given the chance. The tax advantages are there, especially for the CAyenne, so it makes good financial sense to increase its market share. There will be higher stocks of lease returns, but that is also good; it allows others to get the car for a good price.
The broader SUV market has absolutely no need for a V8, as a matter of fact I personally believe an I4 (from the 968 parts bin) would be wonderful if matched with a hydraulically driven (via the power steering pump) variable speed supercharger that only "spins-up" during acceleration.
And there is little or no need (broader market) for a low-range gearbox.
Trim off about 1000lbs and price it equal to the X5 and overwhelm the market.
With the emphasis on better fuel economy, lighter weight,etc, manufacturers are concurring that the extra four-wheel drive hardware is rarely used and just dead weight.
New electronic traction-control systems can get you out of many traction loss situations. Many SUVs are ill-equipped for even semi-off-road anyway (lack of LSD/Lock on both axles,etc).
Most SUV drivers want the tough look, the high seating position, and the perceived protection factor. They don't want the gas mileage from the weight now that SoCal gas is getting above $2.50 per gallon for Premium (which in Calif is max 91 octane, specially blended for smog and less mileage as a result).
Here in San Diego, we have our share of off-road Ho-Daddies, driving H2s and other overkill off-road vehicles. Most never see any dirt.
The owner of a differential rebuilding firm here called Pro-Gear makes a killing off rebuilding and re-sealing front differentials that are never used. They die from seal decay and dry-out,lack of lube circulation which causes rusted bearings. The old saying use it or lose it is certainly true here.
According to PCNA member Dom Miliano, who is a 911 enthusiast, he was doubtful of it being a real Porsche. He drove the "S" Cay to the PCNA Parade, and loved it. See Excellence magazine,October 2003, pp128. These are not cars with super swamper gigantic mud tires, lifted 3 ft high, with a rear cargo area that never sees cargo. fx45 and Cay are everyday cars that can do, triathletes that are for the real world. Yes, I agree with you (W West) that Porsche can try to capture more market share by designing perhaps an entry level car with awd, or a minivan. I used to drive a 968 and love its torque and speed and gas mileage.
Did anyone read the scathing review of the Cay in the latest Automobile mag. It's at the end of the mag and I must say that after driving the Cay myself I do agree with some of his points. I too was expecting more, maybe unrealistically high expectations due to the Porsche name.
I agree with him that the X5 feels more expensive and solid. It was one of the main reasons I got it. That's not to make anyone wrong for getting a Cay. The most important aspect of anyone's choice is that They like it. We are all different and don't have to agree on what makes a vehicle exciting, entertaining, enjoyable etc.
After test driving the Cay I was happy to get back into my 330i with the great satisfaction that it handled better and was a better driving machine than a Porsche! Of course the Porsche was a truck, kind of..
The X5 has a great engine sound and I love the steering. Hopefully it will be as reliable as my 330. I AM looking forward to one day driving a 911 and maybe, just maybe I will fall in love with it.
I really think porsche missed the boat and should have kept it's exclusivity by just producing the TT. The S is to close to the Touareg and the V6 is gonna be a joke. It will not be a good day when the VW TDI beats the Cay S and has a 5k price advantage. The TT is however "THE" 4wd machine. that and the blown S8 are probably the best awd vehicles with 4 doors.
We like the unique blend of performance and offroad ability. We think it does the most in one single car, kinda like a watered down batmobile. It will not go faster than a 911 turbo or ferrari, nor go where jeeps and H1/H2 can go. But its unique blend does provide the most flexibility. Perhaps many expected the fx45 to be the Porsche, and rightly so. What Porsche tried to do was combine a X5 with a M3, or a G35 with a Q4. They tried their best, and only history will tell if that is what consumers want. For pure onroad daily usage, it is enough. Hey, it weighs 5200 lbs, add fluids and passengers and we are looking at close to 5600 lbs, it can go 165 mph and still get 18 to 19 mpg !! Isn't that good ? In my opinion, I think it is an engineering marvel. I am reading the Cayenne book( not the owners manual , but the actual hardbound book).
Glad to hear you guys are enjoying your cars. BMW did do a great job with little 4x4 experience. Fx45 looks and handles great and is a true sports car.
Then got in line for the performance onroad. You get to try both. my wife took the S, I got the TT...great! The race instructor let me floor it, and gave some advice. I tried to step on the brakes while going thru the slalom, but he said, "no brakes, just turn and lean with the car", So I got more courage and tried to accelerate around corners and out too. WOW, its a blast. I think all should try this with whatever carsyou have, it was great !! The event was not as overbooked as the GM Autoshowinmotion. Negative part was that they only had Cay, no other SUV to test and compare, no boxsters no 911. Everyone loved the experience. Find out from your dealer when it comes to your neighborhood, it is free, free food , free T shirt, great fun, plus very educational.
The professional driver told me to never underhand the steering wheel, because it limits quick response, and could push your arm into your face if the airbag goes off. Good info, good advice on offroad and onroad driving.
Are you talking about noon instead of six perhaps?
Steve, Host
You can register online at www.cayenne-experience.com . or call the hotline at 1-888-376-8268. Just like the GM show, this one has no salesmen and no hassles. Just info if you want and a free poster and free T shirt ($25 in the Porsche catalog)! They are going around the country.
Sorry Steve, I am not advertising for Por., just thought it was nice to have a no hassle free event for edmunds fans to enjoy no matter what car they drive. Heck, most people hate the cay.
Steve, Host
Also, the Turbos have their own oil pumps, which continue to circulate oil to cool the turbos after engine shutoff. This extends the turbo's life span.
The Cay's electro-technical and electronic equipment costs almost as much as the engine; $25,000 to $30,000.
The reason they do not come in 19 or 20" wheels is that some people want the softer ride and offroad ability of the 18" wheels. But I still think we should get a choice without the $2000 extra charge.
A manufacturer isn't degrading its quality if the lowered price is simply due to choosing a more modest engine, especially if it's still the sort of engine that Porsche usually includes in its cars. It just means that the same acceleration won't be there.
Now, on the other hand, if Porsche said that they were going to start using a Volkswagen VR6 engine in the Cayenne, I'd be concerned!
Also, on the subject of the Jaguar X-Type that was mentioned: I don't really think that it's a dilution of Jaguar's brand either. It should still have Jaguar reliability, still has much of the luxury, and is certainly styled like one for the most part. The only thing I don't like is that the rear looks a bit too much like that of a Taurus.
Porsche moves out of fast lane with Cayenne V6
Porsche used to make the 924, 944, etc, which were not exactly super car performers.
People in Asia, Middle East, Europe, Mexico, etc have more need of V6 Cay than America, but there will always be some people who like the economy.
The Cayenne Twin Turbo is still the fastest production SUV, actual speed of 165 mph at Nardo race track in Italy. The fastest aftermarket SUv is the Kleeman ML55 supercharged, 607 hp, 175 mph. Lingefelter put a twin turbo V8 in a SONOMA with 732 hp.
I drove the H2 offroad course, and it was a baby course, did not really challenge the car or drivers. The Cayenne offroad course was more challenging, bigger hills that had me going on two diagonal wheels, long uphill at 30 deg, sideways ramp at 30+ DEG, deep holes with no visible bottom, 2 ft deep water tank, etc. It was great.
I have tried to read everything I can about this vehicle, and find it truly amazing. I hear no one, not one person say the fiberoptic MOST system is state of art, oil spray injection of the pistons, ability to tackle both desert/mud/offroad terrains, dry sump lubrication, etc. The most recent Truckin SUV magazine Oct. 2003 , said many many good things about it. 2 negative things are: 1-it has a polarizing style. 2- it costs more than most SUVs. But the rest was entirely positive. Is everyone a pessimist, "the glass is half empty " kind of person, who only open their mouth to blow up something ??? Please at least read about the car in the edmunds car review. Its ok to hate the styling and the heaviness, but at least be informed.
I know Cay is heavy but it is for a good reason. Porsche was not adding the weight just for the sake of.. Being light weight is not the only virtue in a vehicle. What matters is how it handles the weight. It is my first Porsche and sure will not be the last. In fact I am wondering when Porsche will come out with a S Class / A8 / 7 series beater. I will sign up for that in a heart beat. Till that time Cay rocks and everytime I get behind the steering wheel, it is a driving heaven.
The reason Porsche has so much riding on the Cay is because they want the profits from it in order to do what they really wanted to do more than a SUV - a sedan! If the Cay V6 takes off worldwide I think we'll see a Porsche sedan in several years (4-5 probably given Porsche's slow but proven development process.)
As an aside my wife and I took a Cay S out for a real performance oriented romp and were VERY impressed (we didn't like the aligator skin dash but the leather dash option fixes that.) All-in-all the Cay is a very impressive vehicle if it meets your needs (unfortunately we may need the occasional third row so we'll get a Volvo XC90 Executive with a chip when it comes out later this year in the U.S. - it'll run well with a chip but it will never sound like the Cay V8 under a heavy foot I'm afraid.)
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
Thanks,
Matt
Don't know when the V6 will come.
jeffreybehr: great seeing those photos on your web site. I like the cusstom wheels. Love the offroad pictures !!! Have not taken my car over 120 mph yet, but will consider the Buttonwillow racetrack or the rural highways that you suggested. Isn't the car amazing ?? One thing that a lot of people complain about was the fuel economy. Yes, the city mpg is low, around 13 mpg, but freeway driving is an amazing 18 to 19 mpg !! This is similar to my 4 cylinder Toyota Previa, wwwith only 164 hp. The cay weighs more and can do more with its flexible engine. Exotic car performance with fuel economy of a family minivan. It seems like I can have my cake and eat it too. WOW. The X5, ML and Rover have similar fuel economies, but cannot match the performance.
I too agree this is not a good idea for Porsche. Like the 924 and 944 whose life was short or too long depending on you look at it, it did not give Porsche a good name.
As for the Cay TT, I've had it for 2 months and absolutely love it. It's fast, luxurious and it's an SUV. This is my first Porsche and it definitely has impressed me. I sold my BMW 2000 540iT wagon just a few days ago and I don't miss it all.
The one item I don't get is the constant "this car is ugly" theme. I've had so many gawkers at this car, it's unbelievable. Everybody that have seen my car love the style. I have to admit, when I saw it in pictures many months ago, I didn't like the look but up close and personal, it is very cool looking indeed.
So, to all who don't like the look, you're definitely looking at pictures and not the real thing.
Here in the UK its attracted a lot of attention and everyone says what a great looking car it is.
We have just spent 3 weeks in France (Sept) and we tow a trailer with it. The French have had the Cayenne since early in the year and on our recent trip every where we parked they would come up to the car and give it the once over. Not one person gave it the thumbs down.
http://www.btinternet.com/~harryrogers/cayennebuc.jpg
We love ours and it's a thrill to drive every day.
Harry
First Turbo owner to tow a trailer in the UK.
Yes , you are right that it will dilute the brand name. I just don't see how else to move all these great but costly cars. This economy is not supportive of the dotcom conspicuous consumption.
I'm glad you love your TT. We love ours too. I keep wanting to drive it. Funny thing is that under normal driving conditions, the turbo hardly kicks in. The 340 hp is perhaps enough for spirited (though not extreme) driving.Good to talk to you fellow enthusiasts.
By the way, this month's(October 2003)Petersen's 4Wheel & Offroad magazine did a first drive of the Toureg, and went to the MOAB !! It did the Hell's Revenge and Tip Over Challenge courses, and they did not even lock up the differentials ! These people live and breath offroad, and they loved the Toureg and its platform & 4x4 abilities. On page 110, it says "Fear this 4x4" and gives rave reviews of the Cay.
This is not a paper tiger SUV... it roars, leaps and bites..!!
harry