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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues



  • autobumautobum Posts: 11
    Sure hoped Honda had things under control by now ... although based on these recent postings one's gotta really wonder?

    Questions for Honda to ponder -

    Where are Honda's technical experts and why aren't they more involved in educating their current and potential consumers?

    Why are dealers given such latitude to independently differentiate normal from abnormal?

    Why doesn't Honda require an approval process before undertaking such a large repair as replacing a transmission? In other words, if Honda was involved, perhaps their engineers would have caught this error in judgement before it progressed to this level.

    Given Honda's recent quality issues, they need to be keenly aware that their consumer base is legitimately paranoid. To overcome this, they need to more than willing to educate their consumers and dealers. I am pretty fortunate to have a dealer that is responsive, patient and has a service manager that is intelligent and informed.

    To all of us as consumers ... it's our responsibility to seek out reasonable answers, and when doubtful, to get another opinion. It's also important that we resist being paranoid. These are very complicated machines and they don't always sound/act as we'd expect.
  • Honda does require their dealerships to meet certain requirements. It's unrealistic to believe that they are able to monitor all of their dealerships all of the time. So far there have been over 1 million Hondas sold this year alone. It's up to the dealership to authorize a repair. With the recent transmission issues the dealers probably have more leeway when it comes to replacing them. Also, dealers make very little, if any, money when it comes to warranty repairs. That ensures that dealers aren't just replacing items on a whim. This dealership made a booboo .. if they are seriously talking with jebinc about providing a replacement car then they are going above and beyond in my opinion.
  • jebinc1jebinc1 Posts: 198
    They are serious, and they do want to make it right. Right now there is so much not right with the car, we all agree the best thing to do is swap it out. Most of that which is wrong was created by the swap out of the transmission that was not defective. I'm told that by next week this time, I should be into the new car. They are just working out how to transfer the old 2.9% loan so I don't lose out. the current rate is 4.9%. Again, I've been only dealing in facts and the dealership is listening and responding. It's not done until it's done, however. Stay tuned....
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Posts: 213
    Ten years ago, did any one of you think Honda had any notable quality issues? Honda was the benchmark that other manufacturers hoped to duplicate.

    Cutting corners by utilizing error prone suppliers seem to be what is bringing the Honda Accord down. In addition, the once stellar Honda plants in the USA and Canada are now producing quantity instead of quality.

    I read the JD Powers Survey regarding the 2003 Accord and was shocked by its scores. Honda needs to address these quality issues ASAP to reassure its customer base.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    I always have to take their results with a huge grain of salt. My 2003 EX V6 sedan has been completely troublefree... the best new car experience that I've ever had. But I didn't get a chance to express that fact, since JD Powers never contacted me. So is their sample representative? Not from my perspective.
  • winbrowinbro Posts: 235
    is there really any difference between the 5-star ones Vs the ones that dont get that distinction
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,507
    I don't recall writers saying that JD Powers data was wrong when honda gets good ratings. Were the methods just as "poor" then as now such that they need a grain of salt?

    Now when honda is not riding its reputation, deserved or undeserved, we're supposed to use a grain of salt?

    Actually the problem with anecdotal use of the reports is that they are historical. They don't evaluate the reliability of a particular car bought today. The problem is not the statistics. I'm sure JDPowers knows that about 1500 samples gives a good representation of the items they are collecting data about. I'm sure JDPowers knows well how to randomly collect samples.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    "Were the methods just as "poor" then as now such that they need a grain of salt?"

    Yes, in fact, they were. They've always been poor and still are. Poor methods are poor methods, whether you're happy with the conclusions or not. I'll reserve my right to view their results with skepticism... sorry if that bothers you so much, but that's life. There are lots of opinions regarding the overall validity of their research, some positive, some negative.

    I take JD Powers with a grain of salt regardless of their results. I don't care if they like Honda or not. My lack of confidence in their findings has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with their results. I find the whole client funded and advertising driven premise behind JD Powers to be inherently flawed. So you don't have to get all hot and bothered about me having "conditional" confidence in them... I NEVER put stock in what they say.

    I've found that Consumer Reports has invariably reflected my experience with cars for years. While their sampling isn't perfect either, I just find their whole methodology and premise to be a much better foundation. So I'll stick with them, and leave JD Powers for others who have confidence in them.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    the only reliable way to judge a cars reliability would be internal warranty audits. of course the automakers would never release that info. CR and JD Power both have problems. CR for instance; hell i could claim i have a maxima when i really don't. and then give it a bad report card! CR needs to require that readers give their vehicle's VIN number on the form. don't know how JD power handles this...?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    When Honda had a huge problem with a couple months of production in the 2000 V6 Accords, Edmunds BLEW UP. Since then we have had sporadic rattles, creaks and pops. But all of them appear then go away. With anything produced at the rate of 30,000 a month, a small glitch here and there can produce hundreds of "mistakes". The fact that Honda seems to keep these problems to a minimum when they make soo many Accords is why they have the reputation they do. There are very few issues that seem to effect ALL Accords. That's why I don't pay attention to the JD power initial test. It's the 5 year test that separates the winners from the losers. Who knows what kinda of errors were goong on when the 1987-1998 or so Accord were being built. There was no Edmunds to complain to back then. But now we all think that was the heyday of Acord quality. Who knows, we may be in that heyday right now for long term Accord dependability. I know we are in features/safety/comfort for the money
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    gee35...why do you bend over backwards to support honda every chance you get? it's a car company for crud's sake!!
  • Together gee and I have owned the following:

    1990 Acura Integra with 124,000 miles
    1991 Acura Integra with 134,000 miles
    1992 Acura Integra with 125,000 miles
    1994 Acura Integra with 110,000 miles

    1989 Civic wagon with 108,000 miles
    1993 Civic EX with 134,000 miles
    1996 Civic EX with 108,000 miles
    new 1998 Civic EX
    2000 Civic SI X 2 (we had his and hers)
    new 02 SI X 2 (first one met unfortunate death)
    new 03 Civic SI (looking at this one right now in the driveway)

    1993 Acura Vigor with 60,000 miles

    1991 Honda Accord EX with 100,000 miles
    1993 Honda Accord EX with 135,000 miles
    new 99 Accord EX sedan
    new 01 Accord EX V6 coupe
    new 03 Accord EX-L coupe
    new 04 Accord EX-L sedan

    That's 20 Hondas. Not to mention the 99 Civic my sister had, the 83 Accord hatchback she had prior to that, the 93 Accord gee bought for his Mom, the 90 Civic wagon his sister had, and the 00 Accord that she has now.

    We've got lotsa experience with Honda products. As long as they keep building reliable cars that we like we will keep buying them. Out of all of those Hondas we have had NO catastrophic problems (knock on wood). Just regular maintenance. We have yet to find a car that offers such a nice balance for US. We've owned outside of Honda and had the following:

    new 00 Silverado: spent first 2 weeks in shop and still wasn't fixed.
    new 01 Protege: Great handling car, engine sucked for highway trips (which we love)
    95 GS300 bought @ 135,000: Sucks gas (20MPG) which sucks with gee's 80 mile round-trip commute. Had to fix the power steering wheel. Otherwise it's been flawless.
    1994 Lexus LS400 Anniversary Edition: Gee's baby. 8,000 miles in over 2 years. Needless to say this car doesn't make it out often enough to break.
    1997 Dakota V6: Bought at 67,000 and sold it at 73,000 almost 3 months later. Nice truck if you are truck people but we aren't. It miraculously turned into a blue 03 Civic SI. Couldn't make it up hills even with a 3.9L V6. No problems though. It will make someone a great truck.
    new 1997 RAV4: The only car we've ever completed a contract on. In 48,000 miles nothing ever went wrong. No rattles. Nothing. Just a little small and a little buzzy on the highway.

    So as you can see we've owned some of everything .. except Korean. It's always the Hondas that we come back to. The one time I bought something other than a Honda for me I traded it in 7 months. Haven't looked back. We considered everything under the sun before we bought our 04 Accord. Again, it was the best car for us and for the money by far. It can't be beat in terms of interior comfort, performance, predicted reliability, and safety.

    I think we are the type of buyer that keeps Honda where they are. We bought plenty of used Hondas and now that we can afford a new car we are staying with Honda based on those used car experiences. So far, all of our new Hondas have not let us down. Even the new 98 Civic with a paint flaw did not let us down because Honda gave us a new Accord for invoice and some compensation. Probably another reason we keep coming back. We have faith that if there is a problem with a Honda they will take care of it.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380

    are u and gee married...?
  • I have a 1999 Honda Accord, 4 door sedan with the dark green paint. The paint on my roof has several spots that have faded out, 2 which are about 3 inches in diameter. has anyone successfully gotten a dealer to repaint a car with similar symptoms? And if so, what "argument did you use with them to convince them this was a factory defect verses an owner caused problem?

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    We've been together 8.5 years.


    Yeah I'm a happy camper. Lucky camper too.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    so what are u doing here trying to defend honda when you should be on your honeymoon!!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,507
    "sorry if that bothers you so much, but that's life."
    "So you don't have to get all hot and bothered about me (sic) having "conditional" confidence in them..."

    I don't understand why you are attacking me so sharply and personally.
    You may disagree.
    I am welcome to my opinion.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    On the beach in Hawaii....Just kidding.

    We're taking a honeymoon later. I mean when you've been living together for 7.5 years, what's the hurry.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    Well, when you engage in personal attacks on others by presuming to accuse them of hypocrisy, prepare for them to react "sharply and personally". Perhaps you didn't intend your first post to be an attack, but that's how I perceived it. And you know what they say... it's all in the perception.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    "Consumer Reports collects their info too anecdotally. It's in questionaires sent to some subsribers and returned, if the subscriber wishes to complain or boast about their experience with their car."

    They send the questionnaire to ALL of their subscribers, and the result is a huge sample. And the questionnaire is worded as carefully as any that I've ever seen. There's no more likelihood of "anecdotal" results than with any other survey, including JD Powers. Any survey can be filled out with the intent of complaining or boasting about one's experience with one's car if the person is so inclined, again including the JD Power surveys. Finally, the CR surveys aren't funded by the very companies that are being rated, and the results can't be used in advertising. Unlike JD Powers, whose surveys exist primarily for the advertising potential.

    Just my opinion.
  • bburton3bburton3 Posts: 185
    Just a restatement of Talon95's post, CR exists to provide product information for their customers who are consumers of these products. JDP exists to provide "selling points" for their customers who are the automobile manufacturer's. Now whose information would you rather believe. JDP designs their research to help car manufacturer's sell cars. Perfectly ok thing to do but just recognize JDP's motivation.

    Doubt if they have ever made a penny from Honda-why would they do anything for Honda.

    As a former market researcher I really admire the business model JDP has developed. Also their methodology must stand up to potential liability suits. When is the last time you saw a auto manufacturer going after JDP. Remember the long court battle between CR and a certain tippy SUV. CR did the world a favor to bring this problem front and center.

    When anybody is flogging anything-just be aware of where their interest lies and that will tell the tale.
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    is it not possible that the people who buy Honda are extremely discriminating and will bring down the house for even a "tiny" problem? as opposed to other owners owning other brands who are more compromising and accept minor rattles and squeaks as normal?
  • justinjustin Posts: 1,918
    i tend to think that small problems are made into big problems with Honda. people just aren't used to Honda having problems - don't know how to take it when there is a rattle or squeek. so unexpected.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    stories of cars from all Brands (GM, Ford, Dodge, VW whomever going over 100,000 miles.... The fact is its your personal experience that is going to make or break whether you buy the same brand of vehicle again.
    Honda's aren't perfect. We had once owned a 2000 Accord and it was back in the shop 3x during the time we owned it. It was an "ok" car nothing to write home about in my book. Especially after I drove a Mazda 6 and a Passat V6! Visit and try to find Honda TSB information..
  • In my line of work, I see it all the time. Businesses whose success overtakes their infrastructure. When Honda was at a lower sales volume, quality defects were much fewer. Now at 400k cars/year just for the Accord, What Honda needs to do is to invest in right-sizing its organization and/or upgrading its "Total Quality Management" practices.
  • Honda has been selling 350,000-400,000 Accords since 1990. Don't think you can blame it on the sales volume. I think the main difference is the internet. People have a very accessible way to complain about any little squeak or rattle. I actually read a long-term of a 93 Accord EX auto and they had a couple of small problems. Nothing major, but nothing worse or better than what people complain about in here.

    Personally, all of my Accords have been great. Wouldn't keep buying them otherwise.
  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    I agree w/anon, I doubt very much that Honda has exceeded their infrastructure capacity to build quality autos. If anything, I believe Honda only has expectations of being not only the number 1 volume manufacturer globally, but a benchmark for reliability. Thus far, they are succeeding on both fronts. When they start building pickup trucks.....

    It’s not just the internet that has created a hotbed for complaints, although it is a part of the equation. The cars themselves are infinitely more complex than just ten years ago. There is so much more that can go wrong, yet cars today are generally more reliable. Total Quality Management at work.

    Cars are also much quieter. I’ve got a ’92 Integra with a plethora of rattles, tire noise, engine noise, exhaust. But it doesn’t seem to bother me. My 2003 Accord MIGHT have a rattle in the passenger side door. It’s driving me nuts. Not so much that it occasionally exists, but that I can actually HEAR that miniscule sound.

    This leaves manufacturers in something of a quandary. They must continue to develop noise-canceling technologies, yet those same efforts reveal unintended results. Now, instead of noise complaints emanating from sources outside of the cockpit, many people are finding the interior materials causing annoying vibrations or squeaks. Especially windows. The seals have almost become too tight and wear resistant. They certainly keep out moisture and noise, as well as last for the life of the car. So now instead of having to replace window/door seals because of wear, we replace them because we’re getting annoyed.

    I believe that we, as consumers, are beginning to expect perfection from a continuously evolving machine. One that has changed so dramatically from it’s inception that it can scarcely be compared to it’s predecessors. The modern auto shares 4 wheels, an engine, and the capacity to convey humans with the Benz Patent Motor Vehicle "Replica" (1886, Germany) and that’s about it. In a little over 100 years a bunch of folks just like you and I have gone from “gee, what a great idea” to “my personal conveyance appliance is not fast/quiet/entertaining/trouble-free/cheap enough”.

    When I was a young whipper snapper I had to trudge uphill 4 miles in the snow both ways……..
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Posts: 213
    I think Honda still has quality control in the manufacture of Accords in the Ohio plant. My contention is that the "out sourced" parts suppliers are the problem. More and more parts are purchased from US suppliers that also supply GM, Ford, and Chrysler. I remember reading where Honda would supply GM with a certain engine for one of their vehicles. In return, Honda had to buy certain GM parts as part of the agreement.

    Here is the article:
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    That article stressed Europe.
  • pj23pj23 Posts: 158
    As far as I know, Honda doesn't offer a diesel version of any car in the United States. And anyway, the diesels are from Isuzu, which is... a Japanese company, albeit controlled by GM. But, so is Subaru. And as I recall from the Top Gear and Car, Isuzu has decent diesels.
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