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I would rather have no side airbag and a GOOD, than a side airbag and a POOR. I would never buy or recommend a current Sonata or Optima to anyone, side airbags or not.
I understand this, but the fact of the matter is that there is no car that has gotten a "Good" or even "Acceptable" without a side airbag of some sort. However, among "POOR" performers, I'd rather have one with a side airbag than without. That said, its not that hard nowadays to find a good value mid-size car with excellent side impact protection. The Accord LX and Camry LE are $20,900 and $21,200 with the equipment, and are very well rounded packages.
Yes, I realize this is a low-end car thread. To that point, I think you'll probably be wisest to choose the likes of a Mazda 3 or Toyota Corolla (whose transaction prices are lower than the 3s comparably equipped). The Corolla LE autos in my area that are sold with SAB/SAC also have ABS, cruise, 6 disc CD, and sticker at $17,650. Thats still a little high, but I feel a tremendous value. The Mazda 3i similarly equipped is about $18,000, and would be my personal preference over the Corolla, because of its more sporting/aggressive nature, similar economy, and more youthful styling. Not that I'm any kind of authority, but the Mazda 3i and Corolla LE are my personal picks for best in class at $18,000 and under.
The Spectras frontal offset results pull it out of the running where safety is concerned, IMO, and it continues to be difficult to find one in my area with ABS. So even at $14,500 with SAB/SAC, the value equation is called into question, because if you value the safety aspect, you're not getting much frontal impact return.
~alpha
I don't think the Spectra did particularly well on the NCAP's side impact test, even with side airbags - loser all around, even with side airbags.
The Civic's side airbag option is cheap because it offers added protection only to the chest of the driver and front passenger. Its the same type of moderately outdated bag that you could have gotten on a 98 Corolla, if you wanted it.
~alpha
http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/scion/tc/2005/rts20041001st.- asp?affid=edth
http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/2005/nissan/sentra%20SE-R%20- Spec%20V/rts20041201ns.asp?affid=
Accent, Rio, and Aveo are all on there.
I'm surprised though that the Accent has slightly worse residual value than a Rio?
Now that the Lanos is gone, I'd think the Rio would be leading the pack (so to speak) in having the very worse residual value.
Base Aveo w/ Automatic TMV+destination = $12,027
$12,027 x 25% = $3006.75
Base Aveo w/ Automatic Actual Price = $8500
$3006.75/$8500 = 35.4%
35.4% is significantly better than the 29% that the 10th worst cars received. Although pretty short of the 47.5% that the 10th best car gets.
I think that knowing the estimated residual value of your car can help you know what kind of deal you are getting on it.
I wouldn't buy the Rio - even though that $3995 was the craziest price I've ever seen. But I think the Aveo and Accent are two great bottom feeders.
However, if I was buying one of these cars 3 years old, it would be an Echo.
I don't know about you guys but if I already wanted a Sorento I would snap that one right up. You'd probably be responsible for T&L and who knows what other tax. Then you could turn around and sell the Rio for at least $5,000 just putting an ad in the paper. If you worded your ad carefully and could prove it only had 50 miles or whatever you should be able to make at least $5,000 in that deal, maybe more, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
saw a tc for the first time today. looked like a bad attempt at a honda civic 2 door.
have an '04 zts. it's a lot of car for the money. 8k miles, zero problems. it gets the basics right: ride, handling, steering, and stopping.
mine has lots of extras.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
1) Most boring Scion
2) Car that drives most like a Corolla coupe
3) Toyota with the most disappointing gas mileage
automatic has a fuel filter that needs to be
changed, or is this item maint free??
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
For the record, I think the xA and xB are great cars, I like them much better than the tC.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Cobalt - I wanted to drive a 5-speed, but none was available. So I drove a base sedan with automatic, sticker just over $17k with a few options such as ABS and side air curtains. First the good news: this is NOT the Cavalier. It's light-years ahead of that car. The car is rock-solid. The ride is supple, easing over bumps without harshness. I think the ride is actually better than that of a $30,000 Honda Accord Hybrid that I also drove today. The electronic steering is accurate. The handling is fine for a low-end car with 15" tires--not top of class, but way ahead of the Cavalier. The dashboard is also leaps and bounds ahead of the Cavalier, with a crisp, modern face that could have been lifted out of, well, a Kia Spectra (but hey, that car has a nice dash!). The engine has a muted growl, not unpleasant, under acceleration. Acceleration is adequate with the automatic. But I didn't push it, since it was a brand-new tester, so it might be capable of much better performance when floored. I would have liked to try it with the Getrag 5-speed. The car was quiet inside, except for the engine growl and a little wind noise around the A pillars or mirrors at 65 mph. It was noticeably quieter than the Mazda3i (because of tire noise on the Mazda). The trunk looked pretty roomy, with gas struts holdling the lid and a 60/40 split fold-down rear seat.
OK, now the not-so-good news. The nice-looking dash begins to look and feel cheap on closer inspection. It's all hard surfaces, no padding as on the Elantra. The Mazda3's dash is hard plastic too, but it's much more interesting hard plastic than on the Cobalt. The dash and interior trim on the upper-level models is a bit spiffier than on the base sedan I drove, with some metallic or wood inserts depending on trim level. But along with the hard side panels and the cheap-feeling HVAC and radio controls, and lack of niceties such as a center console with armrest, I got the overall impression of cost containment even though it was a step up from the Cavalier.
Another issue is the driver's seat. It has a height-adjustable driver's seat, which is good. But it's a single-lever type, similar to that on the Mazda3. So when the seat goes up, the front of the seat goes too low for my taste. I much prefer the dual-knob height adjusters in cars like the Elantra and Forenza.
The back seat was perhaps the biggest disappointment. The Cobalt is an all-new car, so here was the chance for GM to make a car that was fully competitive with the best small cars on the market. And in some ways, especially in ride and NVH, they succeeded. But the rear seat is tight. With the driver's seat adjusted for me (5'9.5"), the back seat was very uncomfortable. My knees were sticking up in the air, legs off the front of the cushion. My toes were wedged under the front seat. The seatback wasn't comfortable. Be sure to check out the back seat if you regularly carry anyone other than small children back there.
Yet another issue is paint. The car on the showfloor was silver. It had perhaps the dullest looking paint finish I have seen in recent years. And this was the showfloor car--so you'd think they'd have it as shined up as it could be. The cars in the lot were messed up from recent snow, so it was hard to tell if the one on the showfloor was an abberation.
BTW, there was a Suzuki Reno S sitting next to the Cobalt on the showfloor. The Reno had a far nicer interior than the Cobalt (base model), many more features (e.g. power locks/windows/mirrors, 8-speaker MP3 stereo, and SABs), a proper seat height adjuster, glossy paint, and a far more comfortable back seat. It also cost about $1000 less. Interesting product placement by the dealership...
OK, so how does the Cobalt compare to the Mazda3i and the Elantra GLS 5-door? On ride, they are all very close but give the Cobalt a slight edge because it's a bit more compliant than the other two cars. The Cobalt is the quietest of the group, with only a little wind rush intruding on highway driving. The Elantra is second, and also has a bit of wind noise on the highway. The Mazda3i is relatively quiet except for significant road noise from its 16" tires on the highway; it also has a little wind noise. On handling, the Mazda3i is tops, followed by the Elantra, but all three are quite good there. For performance, it wasn't a fair fight because the Mazda3i and Elantra had 5-speeds and the Cobalt an automatic, but the Mazda3i felt peppier than the other two cars (and it does have the most power). On braking, they all did fine; the Mazda3i and Elantra have 4-wheel disks standard, but the 3's brakes had a rough feel--could be some surface rust from sitting on the lot. For shifting, the Mazda3i has a great short-throw shifter, while the throws on the Elantra are longer (but the clutch has a nice light feel on both cars). The automatic on the Cobalt was smooth.
For interior quality, the Mazda3i edges the Elantra because its plastic bits are spiffier than those on the Elantra. Fabric quality and feel is about the same (the GLS 5-door has a sport cloth interior unique to that model, and it's quite close to that in the Mazda). The Cobalt falls down in this area, with boring cloth and plasticky switchgear. For driver's comfort, the Elantra edges out the Mazda3, which wins points because of its telescoping steering wheel. The Cobalt is third there, although note that nicer fabrics and even leather are available in pricier trim lines. For back seat room, the Elantra has the roomiest and most comfortable rear area, with the Mazda just edging the Cobalt because of more toe space under the Mazda's front seats. The Elantra also has the convenience of a hatchback, and the Mazda is also available in that configuration albeit in a pricier trim line.
How about value? Equipped as similarly as possible, with ABS, SABs and/or SACs (the Cobalt does not have SABs available), CD stereo, cruise, A/C, power windows/locks/mirrors, and 5-speed manual transmission, here's how they stack up...
Mazda3i: MSRP $17,275, TMV $16,827 (incl. alloys)
Elantra GLS 5-door: MSRP $15,284, TMV $12,750
Summary: The Cobalt is a quantum leap over the old Cavalier, and in many aspects, especially ride quality and NVH, ranks right up there with the best small cars. It also has some unique options in its class, such as OnStar. The Mazda3i costs about the same (until Chevy starts putting incentives on the Cobalt) but offers better handling, a nicer interior, and better styling (subjective). The Elantra GLS 5-door is a solid all-around performer with the best driver's and passenger comfort of the group and competitive ride, handling, and power. It has the longest warranty also. And one more little thing... it costs about $4000 less than the Cobalt or Mazda3i, comparably equipped. You could buy a lot of, uh, cobalt with that kind of money.
Or people are crazy enough to pay sticker.
Great comparison as usuaal!
Loren
Rear Passenger Doors May Not Latch Properly
Complete article
POSTED: 10:54 am EST February 7, 2005
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. is recalling 358,857 Focus cars because their rear passenger doors may not latch properly, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and a Ford spokeswoman said Monday.
~alpha
I suspect what they did here is look only at cars you can actually buy for under $15k MSRP, which is a different criteria than their Most Wanted list and for their comparos. Still, I see a little inconsistency. New editors, maybe?
I won't comment on the ones I agree with, but:
PT Cruiser - Truly a dog in base form. Not under $15,000 in any guise that I would be interested in. Cobalt goes here.
Kia Spectra - Not with those crash scores, replace with the Chevy Aveo or Hyundai Accent.
Suzuki Forenza Wagon - Interesting pick, I haven't driven one.
Toyota Matrix - Blah. I like the Suzuki Aerio much better.