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Jeep Liberty: Problems & Solutions
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Turned out I had forgotten to fill up the spare tire on the back. Once I did that, no more blinking light. Tire sensors apparently work just fine...as long as one remembers to check all the tires.
I wondered why her Liberty tire valve stems were so thick. Now I understand that they contain some sort of remote sensor that transmits to the vehicle control module the actual tire pressures. The last vehicle my wife had (Toyota Sienna) had tire pressure sensing but it used the ABS system to measure rotation speed of each wheel in relation to the others. I'm impressed the Liberty came with the remote tire pressure sensing capability.
They've told me the brakes are covered by a 12-month, 12,000 mile warranty. They recommended I be sure to have the brakes checked again within that time to be sure they're wearing properly and if not, have them replaced for free under warranty again. Certainly, if I have to have those rear brakes replaced again within 12 months/12,000 miles, they'll have to agree that there must be some other underlying problem like a faulty automatic brake adjuster, emergency brake, or something like that.
Dealer was very nice about it all and didn't sound like they knew of any known problems in this area. Unless of course, their statement to be sure I have the brakes checked again before the brake warranty expires means they have been down this path and know there's nothing that can be done except to regularly replace the brakes... :confuse:
I do not know what information is allowed to passed on to the consumer in regards to parts replaced. There should be a full disclosure, atleast on paper to create a paper trail. Who knows, you might need to pass this information on to lawyer.
You would be surprised how fast they start talking.
John
I found I could induce the groan sound by slowly driving through the Jeep dealer lot using just the engine idle speed and then slowly pressing on the brake. I'd do this for about 2-5 minutes until the groan sound was consistent.
The dealer verfied my concern by hearing the problem and they simply replaced the rear rotors and brake pads saying the pads looked damaged but they had no explaination. Certainly, I'm hoping the problem won't return but I figure my paper trail has begun with this first repair so I'll just be deligent to have them check the brakes for the next three 3,000-mile oil changes.
Good luck to you and let's keep posting our experiences here so we can get a better idea of where this problem may be leading us.
I have a manual transmission and I rarely brake, instead I jack brake when coming to a stop. Jack braking, like in larger 18 wheelers, is the downshifting and letting the engine's decreasing RPM slow the vehicle. Most cities or towns prohibit jack braking because of the noise. Yes I do use brakes, but not as much as automatic transmissions.
Need to monitor all brake problems like delaminated or separated brake pads. All rotors changed because of delaminated pads. All rotors changed because of warping. All axles changed from overheated rotors.
In your master cylinder, I have heard that if a service station overfills the reservior (master cylinder) it will add additional pressure to the hydraulics causing the calipers to push the pads closer to the rotor more than if the reservior was filled to required specifications. Need to check for verification.
Good on you for a paper trail!
John
However, I'm wishing it at least had the tow hooks on front and I'm now looking to see if I can retro those in myself. So far, it looks like I'll need to cut into the lower facia to get tow hooks on her Renegade...I don't think she's going to let me touch her little beauty, though. :P
Thanks again....Chief
Thanks,
Lynn
I recently started up my 02 liberty with 56K miles on it in cold weather (about 30F) and the engine trouble light came on, started blinking, then went solid. I couldn't find any problems and the engine sounded fine (I had the radio on so did not hear the inital problem, though). I made the 1 hour drive home with no problem and then found out how to get the trouble code using the key switch method and found it to be P0303 which is a cylinder #3 misfire.
Question #1: Looking from the front of the vehicle, which one is cylinder #3? I cant find the markings.
Question #2: Is there a way to turn the MIL off without having an ODBII tester?
My plan is to turn this lamp off right now and if it comes back, change the plugs and reset it again. If it comes back again, change the spark plug module on top and if it fails again, I guess I'm stuck having to take it to a dealer. If anyone has experienced this and knows the best course of action, please let me know. Right now, I'm just interrested in getting the lamp off so I'll know for sure if #3 starts to misfire again because I doubt I'll know for sure unless I get this code erased and I don't want to wait the 40 cycles necessary for it to go our by itself. Like I said, right now everything appears to be fine.
Thanks in advance!
Also should mention for those that do not know, if your MIL lamp come on: With engine off, insert the key and fairly rapidly turn to ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON (NOTE that ON is NOT start). . after a few seconds, the odometer will start reading off the codes and then display "done." If there are no codes, it will just say "done." Another key trick is to hold the trip button in while turn the key to ON and this will initate a self test of the dash board gauges.
This has probably all been posted before, but thought I'd post it again.
Lets look at what damage could have occured: the main Computer chip controlling the Automatic Tx was damaged. This is why an error signal is sent out after engaging 2nd gear. The transmission must have a receiving unit in which the main computer chip talks to, this was also damaged.
Did the technician repair the break where the short occured, or did he replace the whole wiring harness?
Obviously, if the gripe (problem) still remains, the technician did not continue troubleshooting once he repaired the wires. Obviously, the technician did not conduct a test drive to validate his repair job was complete.
So, I would have some issues with the original service department, because now other service departments are having to back track and determine what was done, what troubleshooting procedures were taken and what was the repair sign-off.
I would insist a complete wiring harness be changed, the computer chip changed, the transmission receiving unit changed, the dashboard changed and all associated electrical units changed. An electrical short goes EVERYWHERE, so everything needs to be changed at the same time.
John
the codes ending in 1 and 6 is cylinder #1 and #6 misfire.
As long as you changed the plugs at 30K, just reset the check engine light (requires a tester) and wait for it to return. See MY post a few days ago about my P0303 code. Since that happened, it has not returned for me so I chalk it up to a random event.
Noticed how some people wash their cars. The wheels and tires usually receive a health dose of cleaners or other solvents just for appearance. Imagine if those same chemicals are getting their way into your calipers, brake pads or rotors. Imagine what heat can do to solvents whose base is petroleum in nature. A chemical "base" is alkaline and great for cleaners, but horrible if allowed to penetrate exposed materials. How often do you rinse the wheels after you shine them up? Do you rinse them at all?
While the rotors are cold, have you noticed that black material coming from the wheel after spraying the high pressure hose. Give the calipers a good rinse to prevent solvent build-up and harmful brake pad powder. Brake pad powder and cleaner solvent, I'm sure aren't a good combination.
My rotors are running cleaner and eliminate any unwanted friction to ruin gas milage.
John
They explained to me, there are battery powered remote sensors - transmitters, made by Siemens, in all 5 tires. It should be the same system which is in use on Mercedes cars for aprox. 4 years. Nice thing!
I have a suspicion that there is a design problem in the Liberty brake adjusters. Have your rear brakes checked by the dealer before you go over 12K miles since according to my dealer, the brakes are covered for 12-months/12,000 miles.
Let us know what you find since there have been other posts in here about strange "noises" coming from the drive-train or brakes in our Liberty vehicles. :confuse:
thanks for that advice. Your description sounds pretty much like what I am going through. I hear the groan sound mainly at very slow speeds as when coming to a stop or stepping on accelerator. In slow moving traffic, with either stepping or not stepping on the brake or accelerator, the groan is there. Interesting note: with colder weather, the groan is less frequent. I've noticed it is more apparent in humid or warmer temperatures. I'm still going to get it checked out, though.
The bottom line: I would get an estimate and let a mechanic determine the problem. Worse case situation is an engine change or perform a "head" job and hopefully repair the problem then. All it could be is a spark plug repair, but I'm not betting its that.
I would be looking for any oil leaks from the head gaskets or oil pan gasket. Any antifreeze leaks into the oil (internal) itself.
41,000 is almost a new engine. There are other factors which are at play here, which you may not have mentioned.
I feel your pain when it comes to reliable cars and having your kids put in dangerous situations because of car trouble. Good Luck
John
Jeff
Any help will be appreciated!
According to the history of this gripe since 2002, you would think a modification would be designed in.
You are doing good in keeping a paper trail of any maintenance actions. Keep an eye on the differencial outer seal, make sure it's not leaking. Rotors become very hot and this heat is transferred straight into the rear differential.
I would quiz the maintenance person on what he would do to "really" fix the problem. I can't believe that some "on the ball" technician hasn't submitted a suggestion to Jeep on what can be changed to fix this problem.
Also have the technician check the automatic transmission momemtum while at rest. When you press the brake petal, you are effectively "forcing" the automatic transmission not to move. I believe there is a clutch assembly (linkage) that may need adjustment. Heat can be generated through the brakes if the automatic transmission at rest is over-powering the brake's hydraulics.
I have an manual transmission, and have not experienced any brake or parking brake issues.
Chances are, the Liberty will be phased out in favor of the Dodge Nitro. So Jeep, isn't in any hurry to make any life threatening changes. That's why the post, "Why American's aren't buying American cars", so to complain about Jeep's design flaws.
I would be interested in hearing what the service dept says.
Pre-mature brake failure - Main suspect is heat. Heat warps. Warps are a consequence to the main suspect. Problem is why are the brakes overheating. Caliper alignment, Parking brake friction, improperly installed brake pads, hydraulic problem in brake system. That's all I can think of.
Now, see what the tech says. . . .
John
TCS monitors wheel spin and acts as an electronic Limited Slip Differential.
ESP uses sensors in the vehicle to determine the vehicle's (slide) path. Corrections in the anticipated slide path brings the vehicle to the correct posture via the braking system.
BAS measures the hydraulic pressure applied to each brake and adjusts this hydraulic pressure between all four calipers.
Anytime someone mentions sensors, I think of "yaw" accelerometers to measure a 2 axis plane, forward-back and side to side. These sensors are connected to the main computer which apparently has total control of the braking system based on electro-hydraulic "pick-offs". To move hydraulics from greater pressure to lesser pressure to equalize the total braking system means several electronically controlled valves.
I am trying to get a hold of a 2006 Liberty manual and see if these hydraulic systems really exist or not. I know that systems with stuck accelerometers can do real damage if not calibrated or operating properly. I may be reading too much into this, but, again I need the manual to be sure.
Love them ball joints. I thought the Jeep Liberty was supposed to have this awesome front end suspension. Look for ball joint failure. I would look for bad grease fittings, cracking rubber seals, bushing and grease fittings near the rotor or engine block. Heat and rubber seals are not best of friends. Check all U-joints for freedom of movement. All stuck or sticking U-joints need to be replaced immediately. Usually a clicking sound indicates a stuck U-joint.
Check for "dizzy". What I mean is, when you turn around in circles, your inner ear looses its reference and you fall down. So, take this and apply it the hydraulic brakes. Whe you press your brakes, the car does not want to go straight. It appears that the brakes are putting more pressure to one side, thinking its loosing control. One of the sensors is "fooling" the car that its in a spin or about to spin out of control. Try that logic and see what happens.
Went on a 147 mile trip, used 5.29 gallons for a grand total of 27.78 miles per gallon. Since I have a manual transmission, I have not experienced any of these braking issues.
I do not know if the automatic transmission enteracts with the braking system. A sudden RPM change, I would think that the computer would communicate to the automatic transmission that the engine was slowing down.
Keep up the paper trail and encourage your technician to submit maintenance bulletins.
John
I have always used synthetic oil in my engines. What happens is that some people go 6000 miles between oil changes. But what they miss are the lubrication "maintenance cycles" where all the fittings, knuckles, U-joints and what ever else are packed with a fresh squeeze of lubricant. This 3000 mile lubrication cycle is very important, and Jiffy Lube does a good job with this if you don't want to do it yourself.
Drift in your front end alignment is the first tell-tale signs that something is wrong with the ball joints. Tire wear is not a tire problem, its a front end problem.
I bought my Liberty, like my old Cherokee because they are easy to work on and there are plenty of spare parts around. Don't get me wrong, I'll get on Jeep for putting production quota's over quality. So press your maintenance people to initiate maintenance bulletins whenever possible. Believe it or not, the more bulletins means added pressure on quality assurance to do a better job on the factory floor, rather than at your dealership. This means an over all better product for Jeep.
John
Mechanically here are your options:
1. Sell it
2. Trade it in (show paper trail of maintenance actions done by the dealership and their apparent lack of technical knowledge, because if they were on the ball, they would have fixed it the first time. Would I call it neglegence if the Service Dept. gave custody of the car to you knowing that it wasn't fixed or never test drove it to see if the repairs were good, Sounds legal to me.
3. If Jeep indicated that a "fix" was either in the works for your Jeep was a test vehicle, then apparently the "fix did not work". The dealership needs to know this, so they can tell Jeep to keep trying. If Jeep is honestly trying to fix the problem, then my question is, why should you be paying for a potentially life threatening experiment?
4. "Money Pits" have no sentimental value, atleast for mechanical cars (not necessarily for people).
5. So Jeep did know about the brake problem, dispite their best efforts to ignore the problem, OR tell unsuspecting consumers that it was their imagination. Lemon Law anyone. I would get that technician's deposition about what he knows, then talk to a lawyer.
Putting money into a lost cause goes against every logical decision. How much time and effort put in selling it against putting the money out and hopefully fixing it once and for all. I would take my Jeep in for a final time, have all previous maintenance actions presented to the dealership and have a lawyer present with you. Sound terrible, Oh Well.
John