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  • Well I'm happy to hear that your GM hasn't posed you any problems. Gathering past comments from others, I'm guessing your past GM truck wasn't so trouble free. You seem to think I have it out for GM, not necessarily. Should we find out that Toyota had wrong doing in their sludge case, I hold the same unsatisfaction with them.

    I know theres plenty of people in here with knocking/pinging/ticking engines who have put miles and miles on them with seemingly no consequences, and thats great. Like Nomoregm though, I'm not going to settle and say that there isn't a problem with the quality. I've owned almost all GM and primarily worked on GM in the shop over the years. I've formed my own ideas of what is and isn't acceptable. From what I hear in here and from others, these engines and the complimenting service from GM are sub par.

    Just to ease your mind a bit lol. My roomate was exiting his Rado the other day and with no extraordinary effort, the door handle snapped in two. So we go to fix it and on the way to auto parts, truck dies ... his fuel pump went out. It gets towed to shop. While I'm there I see a very sharp looking dark blue 02 ext. cab Rado. Guy walks out to get in and come to find out, its my old auto shop teacher from high school. I almost fell in love with the truck right there.

    We got to talking and I told him I'm looking for a Tundra. He's a die hard Chevy guy, I think thats all I've ever seen him drive the last 10 years. He was telling me that he was happy with truck except for piston slap and cold start clatter as he called it. He then points over to the rack and I look and notice theres 4 total vehicles. 2 Sierras, 1 Rado, and a S-10. Even with all that said, I tell him, if the Tundra doesn't work out, then Rado is next on the list. We agree it's a nice looking truck, and go our ways. I'm probably not as anti GM as you would think.
  • Very rational post there, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm all for people supporting good products. Yet this is where my loyalty view comes into play. There will and always have been people who stick to a brand, almost no matter what. Those of us who work on cars, construction, etc. , have our likes and dislikes with brands of tools. If it's junk, we don't use it for most part.

    Some of the auto products put out lately are lacking quality. This isn't specific to GM at all. I apply the same concept as I do with tools and much else. If it's junk, I don't use it. I'm not gonna say a knocking engine is necessarily junk, because theres other pieces to the engine puzzle. Yet even with all the complaints of knocking and so on, GM still rakes in an overwhelming amount of the truck market. Getting them to give extended warranties is great to ease individuals minds I suppose. Like you say though, I'm not sure if it's enough to make them more responsible overall. As long as the sales figures remain somewhat constant, what are they really losing ???
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    I'm a believer that if something's broke, fix it. Any problems with my truck became the dealer's problem also as I've been known to be a squeaky wheel. After serving some amount of time on this earth, I've come to realize that life is too short to make a mechanical vehicle who's problem may take too much effort on my part to resolve. If I believe that it will consume much time and emotion, I would cut my losses and dump the junk. If GM were to replace your motor at this point and time, there are no guarantees of getting a nonknocker. In fact, looking at the odds, I'd say it's pretty good that you would get another knocker. When I start my '00 Denali with the 5.7, I do hear the knock. Does it bother me? No. Simply because it's on a 3 year lease through GMAC and I'm definitely walking away from it at the lease end. It's ok to carry a crusade. I'm just wondering if it's time to move on.


    My point is this. Everyone is entitled to post their opinion whether it is supported by fact or not. My thing is there is nothing to be gained by bashing GM. Whether their QC is or isn't acceptable won't matter much until you decide whether you'd buy one or not. However, to come here and fan the flames, well, I find that as a nonproductive use of time. I usually don't comment much on other people's problems simply because I think I have enough of my own.

    The poster who had the long list of problems with their GM vehicle should've research their options earlier. At this point, with the vehicle being out of warranty, I'd simply dump it and move on. Some say it's not economically feasible to do something like that. For me, my well being is more important than a vehicle or money lost by dumping it. I'd consider it the cost of a lesson learned. Remember one thing when and if you do purchase that Tundra. Toyota service ranks among the lowest in terms of customer satisfaction.
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158
    Everyone is allowed their opinions. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this: We need to support our thesis statements with some empirical knowledge or references if we want to be taken seriously and avoid being challenged. That's beginner's English.

    The very title of this forum suggests a fire storm of dissatisfaction. If I fan the flames, I try to back up my statements toward a productive end. I believe that there is something to be gained by questioning GM, and telling our stories. A deal is a deal and they have reneged. The same is true for any car or truck maker who follows suit. I purchased the car on the strength of its engine--it's my second new GM (first was a 305 that ran like a sewing machine well over 100k).

    I did plenty of research before buying but curiously, I found nothing on the knock issue. Forums such as these are not on the cover of any web pages that I've found. All the hype is. Consumer Reports and Automotive News have not reported on this to my knowledge. Do you find that strange? These quirks interest me greatly and I like to bring them out in the open and discuss them. If I sold my car (it's for sale), tomorrow I would still post and follow this issue. I like cars.

    The media is taking a back seat on the whole deal. Dare I suggest that the major corporations are in collusion with the media? Would the media turn on Big Business and risk losing all those advertising dollars? I learned today that the internet petition has been dropped and nobody knows why (at least one of their sponsors is a GMC dealer). Have we been silenced there? I hope its back up soon, my name is on it. Is yours?

    I share your grief and I too realize the physical and psychological cost of holding on to one's principles. It doesn't mean you give them up. My second car is a '97 Nissan. If Consumer Reports (I'm guessing that was your source as you supplied none), a domestic magazine tells me that a foreign make lacks in customer service compared to others, I question their sources. And if they are such an authority, why are they silent now? I wonder.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Did they have anything to do with the LS1 petition being dropped? If I was betting my last dollar I'd have to bet yes. They own an army of attorneys. All it takes is one phone call to end it. Major corporations in collusion with the media? That's kindergarten to let's talk about the halls of Congress.

    Bottom line is I don't give up on principles very easily, but I do know when to stop banging my head against the wall. There are a ton of auto and truck manufacturers out there. Hopefully one has the vehicle you're looking for. If I was to buy that type of car today, I'd probably opt for the Viper or the Vette...second childhood ya know.

    Oh and btw, I've signed up on most of the petitions at ls1 all cept this one cause I haven't visited their website on a regular basis for awhile now. And when I do visit its usually at their anything goes topic.

    The info regarding foreign dealer's service department was taken right off of Edmund's just can't find that link. I was particularly interested in following that Toyota sludge topic....course till it got shut down...makes you wonder doesn't it?
  • allchevyallchevy Posts: 28
    I agreed to pay a large sum to GM and continue to make monthly payments on a 2001 truck.It was designed to run quiet on the dealers lot by a teflon coating being applied to the pistons that easily wears off in a short time.
    The cylinders with marginal specification clearances then began to knock.
    This reminds me of the old story of the unreputable used car lot dealer adding sawdust to the rear differential and loading the engine up with STP just to trick people into thinking they were buying a normal car.
    Only instead it's one of Americas largest corporations!Are our lawmakers and elected representitives being funded by campaign contributions by mighty GM so they will look the other way??
    I've kept my end of the deal making the payments agreed on, but as my truck engine eats itself from the inside, GM states this change is "not desirable,but normal and characteristic"
    Enron and Big tobacco had the same attitude.....
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    I remember when they used to put sawdust in the rearend to quiet it down.
  • The movie Used Cars comes to mind
  • I tend to agree with your last post or two. Funny as it sounds, I've made my mind up on the Tundra, but the Silverado would take second I think. I could care less if the magazines place Dodge or Ford ahead of either and vice versa. I don't believe the knocking problem of GM is in the best of craftsmanship. Although, I'm not aware of too many people that have had failures due to it. In the shop we would rebuild them, but I can only recall a few knocking engines ever that had prematurely failed or seized.

    With your easier going attitude, it sounds like you live in the Carribean or something. I think Americans for most part will take issues to heart and demand resolution no matter how small an issue. To each his own as far as how much effort in vs. benefit there is to gain. If it's a matter of principle then so be it.

    As I've stated before, I do believe Toyota has a ways to go before they're considered at the top of customer service. I solely say this based on the experiences of OTHERS. I admire their recent sludge warranty, maybe it came a little late but better late than never. We'll see what lies in store next year for the "bigger" Tundra. Otherwise, that Silverado remains tempting.
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158
    Perhaps we all need to E-mail our local media investigative-team as I just did. (got the idea at, message board). Let's see if they respond. I'll let you know. I tried real hard not to sound pissed off.

    You know how serious and outspoken I am? Would you believe that a close friend of mine just purchased a new Silverado, 5.3? It doesn't knock--yet. Think I need to read that "How To Win Friends And Influence People" book real soon. .

    I know another friend (I have two, Oby), who has a 1-year old slaperado with about 16k and it just recently started to "tick"--hmmmm....

    "What we got heah is a failya ta cumunikyte. Some men ya jus kaint reach".
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    I have 2 friends with 99 gm trucks

    1 chevy and 1 gmc. All 4wd ext cabs. Each over 100K miles. Neither has had any problems (other than normal maintenance) and 1 has the engine knock
  • minikinminikin Posts: 389
    Don't know how to break this to you, guy, but this is a private service. What does "free speech" have to do with it?
    -- Don
  • minikinminikin Posts: 389
    Still put sawdust in the rear end to quiet it down. But only when I'm selling.
    -- Don
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Yeah still remember that good ole sawdust. Never knew why gramps kept that thing around. Now I do. Works like a charm 'cept when they try to drain it. Course this was on a '55 Merc like ole Broderick Crawford used to drive.


    Life is like a game of poker. Sometimes you just gotta fold em. The key to it is knowing exactly when. While I don't live in the Caribbean we do share the same type of weather in the 50th state.


    Yes, you should read the book before talking to this friend of yours. Or at least wait till it knocks. One thng for sure, the service manager wouldn't be lying when he says ...they all do that. The 5.7 has been around for ages. Hasn't this been an ongoing thing with the 5.7 and it's pint sized brother the 4.3?
  • ryanbabryanbab Posts: 7,240
    the 4.3s knock also?

    Ive never heard of this
  • xyz71xyz71 Posts: 179
    My 99 had a small tick at start up - it has been gone now for about 4 months. I got GM to give me the letter - 6 year 100K engine only warranty - but do not think I will ever need to use it.

    My 2001 Tahoe purchased 4/12/01 has never knocked. In fact it has not been back to the dealer for anything except the free oil change at 1,500 miles. This is the first time I have ever owned a car or truck that did not need at least one trip back top the dealer in the first year. I have owned mostly Toyota, Nissan and GM.
  • txyank1txyank1 Posts: 1,010
    Several 5.7's, a 454SS, a 4.3, a 4.8 and a 5.3 and no knocks! The 4.3 probably had the worst pinging.
  • ntaylorntaylor Posts: 13
    I have an '88 4.3 w/ 175K mi - no knock (bought it new). My '93 5.7 w/ 100K mi knocks a little during "pedal to the metal" accelerations (bought it used @ ~65K mi). Hopefully all of the recent engine issues will be settled in the next 3 years when my GM Card is max'd. I will also be watching very closely the new Diesel engine coming from Ford next year.
  • ntaylorntaylor Posts: 13
    "I have 2 friends with 99 gm trucks"

    Wow, that's a lot of trucks for just 2 people!

    (couldn't resist)
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158
    When your passenger (a 50-year old with auto experience), sits inside your car and says, "What the hell is that noise coming from the engine", heard clearly over the SLP center-mounted, hi-pro exhaust thundering to speed, I hesitate to say, "that's just a normal noise". I think the confusion here is that the noise is variable among owners and ranges from no noise to outrageous knocking.

    If a dealer or a poster here says, "the ones that knock are just as normal as the ones that don't", again, I slap my forehead and say, "Duh, ya think?"

    I'll take a non-knocker please. And I don't doubt that some here "might" be getting 100K miles out of a knocker but I wonder if your performance is poorer along with oil consumption, mileage and emissions, etc. Do tell.

    Let's say we use the sound clip below as a water mark--which my 5.7 sounds like.

    Does that sound normal to you? If so, for what duration and at what outside temperature? Mine will go for 30 minutes at 30 degrees F. It continues, just-audible when hot. Nobody that has heard my car (incl. two engine builders) considers it normal and all tell me it is piston slap.

    Oby, perhaps this has been an ongoing problem with the 350 but my sister's 74 Camaro didn't do it (xcept when I was in the back seat with a black-haired beauty). I've had friends that would beat on new 1980's vintage 350's that never had it. And why are these sites, forums and dealer complaints only popping up recently? Why are most of the entries at the LS1 Petition (now apparently silenced), from model years 98-02? (almost all 5.7 liter there).

    (nomore takes deep breath...) Why are GM's own TSB's only now addressing the knocking (since about 2001)? Why have they only now proclaimed that 1 U.S. Qt. per 2000 miles oil-consumption is "acceptable"? Do you agree? Why did all the dealers admit there was a fix on order just prior to the "main office" issuing all the related TSB's except for one (3.1 liter engine): The 3.1 liter is in the Malibu and GM is fixing or replacing those--why? Why am I concerned? I've had several GM service managers tell me it's because of the Internet. Is that it? Did the Internet cause Ford, Subaru and Jeep to have knocking engines also--whose warranties they honored BTW.

    Didn't GM have an assembly-line strike in 1997? Maybe scabs and disgruntled assemblers don't cut good blocks. I don't have all the answers.

    As far as the gambling analogy goes, I'm a crack blackjack player. I've read everything from Thorpe to Uston. I know how big a differece a small percentage can make. The Casinos don't offer warranties. GM, however, does. Casinos always pay their losses. GM, the largest and most powerful auto maker in the world, has (IMHO), found a way not to pay and they have egg (and lemons) all over their face.

    minikin, I hope that you will speak your mind here freely as I try to. I'll continue until I'm removed by our gracious hosts. I hope I add some perspective here at least, before I stir the soup.

  • ricschricsch Posts: 540
    Today after I changed oil in my Silverado (and refilled the engine with oil), started it up and slid underneath the truck to check for any leaks, I heard a slight knocking in the engine. I assume this is normal? When standing near the engine compartment, this particular noise isn't heard. Can anyone tell me if they too have noticed this?
  • xyz71xyz71 Posts: 179
    If your engine is 1/2 as bad as you say it is then why the hell don't you quit bitching about it and get your dealer to do something about it.

    The way you make it sound your pistons are coming up through your dash.

    If your dealer is not giving you any satisfaction - find another dealer.
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158

    Did you just fall of a turnip truck? I've been to three (3) different dealers a dozen times, countless unanswered calls to GM customer (no)service, requested and promised regional service advisors (never happened), Better Business Bureau (total Bullcrap), State's Attorney's General (forget it), private lawyer's offices($$), etc., etc. But you'd know that if you took the time to read the entire thread before you opine. I forgive you. But please don't insult me (bitching?), because you're too indolent to research just this one thread--not to mention all the others.

    Yah, my pistons do sound like they are going to come out through the dash. If you'd like to hear it, I'll have you over. Nobody else will come. What's your point other than to call the rest of us with real issues, "bitches"? If the dealers were doing something about it, I wouldn't have to hear uninformed, inane, curt responses on internet forums such as the one you just posted. I'm not enjoying this.

    I can't believe people like you that drop in here with their parachutes strapped to their rear-ends like they're some kind of authority on the topic. Get real. Get educated. Try to keep an open mind--it's a sign of intelligence.

    I'm curious as to why you even bothered to post. Do you own a knocking-GM product? I think not. Or, did you just come in to stir the crap? You failed to mention--we're waiting....
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,966
    Let's back off the personal stuff, OK?

    We don't need it. If you disagree with what someone posts, that's OK. If you go on to question their intellect for posting it, that's NOT OK.

    Back to the trucks!

    PF Flyer


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  • allchevyallchevy Posts: 28
    Lets remember who "created" the design and subsequent quality control problems in these GM engines.
    Not you,not me, and not the dealer who sells them.
    It appears some consumers can live with it, some, like me, it really irritates.
    I don't think it's unrealistic to expect from a manufacturer that has built so many engines to continue to build a quality product equaling or exceeding yesterdays, no doubt that was their intention.
    When they don't, consumers (aka customers), especially those with an automotive background will notice...and rightfully say so.
    How much lost sales will GM want to absorb before they deal with their knocking engines?
    I have a nieghbour who works in parts at a GM dealership, he suggested the soloution maybe a brick on the gas pedal.
    What does that say about the responsiveness of GM management to internal problems?
    I'm not going to destroy my engine to resolve an issue - I want to own a truck to be proud of, and it should come with an engine that does'nt have to be torn down and rebuilt at 600 miles - that's when mine started knocking.
    Think that's too much to ask GM ??
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158
    PF Flyer. I fully appreciate and respect your position. At first, I didn't realize you were our host. I apologize. I've never posted anywhere so regularly for lack of a worthy cause such as this. For my part, I will comply. I believe we can speak freely without hurting each other.

    I have researched this issue extensively and more needs to be done. I don't consider my posts to be baseless "complaining". I love to hear others' opinions. I like when others respond to mine. I wish, however, more posters here would challenge me on the issues, not the personality.

    I will agree that my writing style can be caustic to some. I use colloquialisms frequently and I suspect it comes from addictive-listening to various talk radio.

    Allchevy, you are correct. The dealers are as much victims as we are and I've heard that many fear what might happen if this issue gathers momentum. That said, I'm not willing to let them completely off the hook. They made a profit on our purchases. They have a responsibility to us. They're our avenue to GM management. They must be organized and your post gives me the idea of contacting perhaps the GM Dealer's Association--if one exists. I understand that not all dealers are marching in step with this farce.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    You guys are absolutely right. Why should someone have to put up with a truck that sounds like a paint shaker just because GM claims that it is "normal". Do you think that many people would buy a GM truck that sounded like that when they drove it off the lot? Do you think that they will be able to sell their trucks?

    The sad part is when GM offers an extended warranty (engine only of course). Why would someone want an extended warranty when GM won't honor the original warranty? Isn't this just a slap in the face? Aren't they saying in essence "We know your engine knocks, but you are just going to learn how to live with it!"

    And how many people drive their trucks 100,000 mi in the first five years? Doesn't this mean that the extended warranty that GM begrudgingly offers is REALLY just a 5 yr warranty? The Tundra comes STANDARD with a 5 yr warranty that covers the entire powertrain (not just the engine).

    It all comes down to dollars and cents for GM. They are going the cheap way out. If it angers their long term customers - so be it. This does not bode well for the long term viability of GM when they treat their customers so shabbily. Every warranty they deny is a permanent convert to another make.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    "And how many people drive their trucks 100,000 mi in the first five years? Doesn't this mean that the extended warranty that GM begrudgingly offers is REALLY just a 5 yr warranty? The Tundra comes STANDARD with a 5 yr warranty that covers the entire powertrain (not just the engine).

    So that you may be a little more informed on your next post. I'd like to correct you on a point regarding the extended warranty. I have a 6 year/100k mile, bumper to bumper, $0 deductible Major Guard warranty courtesy of GM. Is this a little better than Toyota's powertrain warranty. Think so. Bottom line, fix it or not, I don't figure to incurr any out of pocket expenses for 6 years or 100k miles whichever comes first for any type of repairs other than maintenance items.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    Don't you read this topic?

    rayt2 Feb 19, 2002 1:48pm

    Wake Up Oby!!!
  • nomoregmnomoregm Posts: 158
    ...regarding the warranty. I've found that most people are indeed getting "engine component only" and it covers only catastrophic engine failure. You live with the knock, oil burn, emissions, etc. That is all that I was offered by GM and it was 5 years/75,000 miles. I turned it down. Forgive me but the way you question Bama, did you think that we're all getting the Major Guard?

    I don't know of any others who were given the Major Guard like yours. Do you? Also, did you have to waive anything in writing to receive that?

    I know that you said you were a squeaky wheel and perhaps you pushed them to higher terms with verbal skills that most people do not have. Almost all business today is ran on this principle. Most people will not fight. So they only buy-off the ones that persist. I'm sure that most of us who have wound up posting here have been through the GM customer-service merry-go-round.

    I knew a man who had millions of dollars and drove a big-old Cadillac. Would never buy a new car. I could never understand why. Now I do.
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