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Comments
I visited Immke Northwest Honda, and they were unwilling to budge a whole lot from MSRP ($200 or so). I didn't spend too much time negotiating so I might have gotten a slightly better quote.
The Honda Store in Youngstown, Jay Honda in Bedford (Cleveland), and Classic Honda in Streetsboro (between Akron and Cleveland).
Go back a couple of weeks and read the posts for yourself.
Better yet, get quotes from those other stores and use them to try leverage a deal locally.
Thanks for sharing about Immke. That info saves me a trip there.
Keep us posted.
I visited Immke Northwest Honda, and they were unwilling to budge a whole lot from MSRP ($200 or so). I didn't spend too much time negotiating so I might have gotten a slightly better quote.
That said, I am very concerned about getting stuck somewhere due to the lack of a readily available replacement PAX tire.
Does anyone know (for certain) whether or not a spare PAX tire/wheel combination will fit in the spare tire compartment of an Odyssey?
If so, I'm thinking that buying a spare (no doubt an expensive proposition) might be the way to go.
I know that the Touring models do come standard with jack equipment.
pmorgan: I was one of the early posters who posted Bedard Brothers name. But I got them through another edmunds.com poster. So I am also very grateful and most appropriately Thankful to this site for their wisdom and honesty.
Thank you and a small prayer will go up for all of you who help others out in our anonymous quest for better pricing and all the education you have provided to this woman who was dreading every trip to the local dealership.
We had to cancel since it was too far away, almost 11 hours, and recently bought at Duncan Honda in Christiansburg, which was @ $ 500 over invoice, a savings of almost $4000. Again thanks to this forum.
Both places were the most professional dealerships I have done business with. I have bought 5 vehicles in last year for my family, so I know a thing or 2 about buying cars.
Since I worked in Industry, no longer, it was a pleasure since local dealers like Hall Honda, are all games.
Thanks to this site, and again diligent checking, both Duncan Hokie Honda, and Bedard Brothers are excellent dealerships.
Oh yeah, no problem with getting deposit back from Bedard!!!!
Have VIN Number and awaiting our touring model.
Price at Duncan is correct $ 500 for EX and Touring -no options, and EXL and Touring with DVD/NAV are 1500-2000 off MSRP. Internet department is a joy to work with.
If you are anywhere close to Christiansburg, hurry up and buy now. The same thing will happen as @ Bedard, too many orders, and they will raise prices.
If I can be helpful to anyone out there let me know, I will tell it to you straight, since this site help save me almost $4000 dollars.
Thanks again EDMUNDS- Great Site
That being said, I test drove the Sienna with run flats and it also seemed fine. But I think the Toyota is also tuned for a softer ride overall.
Plus as mentioned before, the PAX system provides the coolest looking tires on any minivan. The EX and EX/L offer a tremendous value, but even I thought the wheels look a little dated on these models.
That being said, I predict Honda will re-think PAX for the 2006 model year-- at least as far as making it standard equipment.
We can nit pic all day over ride quality & handling issues, but the bottom line is cost and availability. That's what will make owners sit up and take notice come repair/replacement time. Right now, my money is on conventional run-flats.
People shelling out $35K for a Touring may not think about--or even care about--replacement cost of PAX tires. But the guy who's thinking about buying a used '05 Touring three years from now sure will. I predict resale values of PAX-laden Tourings will suffer.
Furthermore, for the first 2 years Touring customers receive a special warranty and service to accomodate the transition to this improved technology. I think some people spend too much time worrying....
The wheels look great, handle great, and I love the tire pressure monitor. I also appreciate the fact that my wife will not be stuck along the highway with a flat tire.
--
Doug
Better handling (larger wheels, and larger stabilizer bar)
Better stereo (360W, 7 speakers, sub woofer)
True tri-zone automatic temperature control (the dogs prefer 60 degrees in the back)
Power tailgate
Fog lamps
Wonderful driver information computer (gas mileage, compass, temperature, more detailed maintenance, customization, etc.)
VCM (also on EXL, but this is great)
Chrome accents (interior door handles and on the rear)
Center console
memory seats
adjustable pedals
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/innovation/paxsystem.html
Here is another link:
http://www.michelinman.com/difference/releases/pressrelease092720- 04b.html
I actually remembered incorrectly. Michelin claims it will only cost 10% more than a standard tire.
I got roughly the same deal as others posted, ~$1K over invoice, which beat all the more local dealers by a bunch. The only hiccup is that I want a towing package, but it won't be available until later (either December or January) for the 05. I'll either have to find a local dealer to install or take a ride back to Bedard.
So far a very good experience with Bedard--something that wouldn't have happened for me without this site. Thanks Edmunds.
It appears though that the marketplace has narrowed the gap between the two a bit.
Long and short of the situation. I contacted a dealer 6 days ago with written requirements for an EX. The salesman quoted the price of $25,310. I verified via phone that the price was for an EX. He verbally confirmed. Today I go in to purchase the vehicle, again confirming the price as $25,310. He filled out the written sales form with the VIN of an EX and a price of $25,310. Upon entering the finance office the price in the computer is magically $3000 higher. I walk. The salesman calls me later with his, cover his butt speech, claiming it was completely his mistake and that the dealer had no idea of his mistake. He had quoted an LX instead of an EX through 5 different conversations. I laugh and tell him he represents the dealership and his actions speak for them.
I'm not an idiot, I have a dual degree in IT and finance. I spent many hours researching what people paid for Odyssey's. I made every effort to get the truth about the price even baiting him with discussion of what people on the east coast were paying.
This was a classic bait and switch. Figuring I'd be in love with the vehicle enough to pay the extra $3000 once in the finance office.
I don't want anything from this dealer. I don't want the vehicle for $25,310. What I want is this deceptive practice exposed. Do I have any options?
I have the upper hand: two words "camera phone".
I will post quotes from the 3 dealers you mentioned.
BTW, anyone else get quotes from dealers in the Columbus area besides Immke and Roush?
Thanks for sharing info on Roush Honda.
BTW, what is the exact price over invoice you got from the Honda Store for an EXL RES & NAV including destination charge? What about tax (rate) and other fees?
I don't know why they let me use CC to pay deposit, they didn't say ... but they did know I'm on Guam and won't be in the states until December. Wonder what the "past practices" were?
Salesmen are often the victims of deceptive dealer owner and his crooked, deceptive Finance Office.
My degree is not in either area of yours. Thanks for exposing another crooked dealer.
Please, don't do this! A lot of people take everything they read on the internet as gospel!
The estimate I heard was around 175.00 per tire. Still expensive but a far cry from 500.00!!
We have a very sloppy salesperson here who must have been asleep. Hard to believe anyone could have been that careless especially after repeated conversations. I seriously doubt that even the very sleazist of dealers would have done this on purpose with the hope that the customer would pay the extra money. Guess it's possible?
But...I just have to ask...Did you REALLY think after doing all of your research that any dealer would sell you an EX for that price??
Didn't you suspect a major error had occured?
That 175.00 number came from Michelin. With any tire there are always additional charges for installation, balancing etc.
No doubt they will be more expensive than conventional tires and I guess time will tell. If they become more widespread, competition will lower prices. You won't have to buy these at the DEALER either!
A lot of people don't share your hatred for these PAX tires! Some see a lot of security and safety in them despite your constant knocking on them.
Who knows what the future of PAX tires will be? You sure don't and neither do I. They could end up being a major blunder for Honda or other manufacturers may start switching to these.
For those who are afraid, they should simply buy a non-touring model. Nobody really **needs** the additional features a touring has to offer.
I understand you don't seem to care for run flats, that is fine. But you do seem to hold a very pessimistic view. I already confirmed on the Michelin site that I have a PAX dealer in my home town (not a Honda dealer).
I would think 13" wheels on a small Civic or Tercel would also be cheaper. I'm just not sure it's relevant.
The more I think about it the more I think this really was done on purpose. By boosing the price by $3000 plus the sales tax involved I was no longer able to use my financing. I think they did this to boost the likelyhood I would finance through the in-house finance company. Manipulation on the border of illegality.
I did suspect a major error had occured. That's why I verified the price 4 times. 3 verbally and 1 on the written sales agreement.
After the discrepancy was uncovered I asked to see the sales order and showed them a written price of $25,310 with a VIN for an EX. When I asked for an explanation the back peddaling and [non-permissible content removed] covering began. And before you ask if I mistook a 5 for an 8, I didn't. I have a picture via camera phone of the sales sheet.
Car dealers are finding newer and trickier ways to take advantage of people. This is one of those times.
YOU don't seem to remember Michelin's debacle with TRX tires. It rivaled that of 'New Coke.' Those of us who do remember it will take any press release from Michelin regarding the convenience and cost of PAX replacement with one huge grain of salt.
And you are correct that you don't have to go to the dealer for replacement. If you are able to find a Michelin dealer who has PAX equipment, that that is your second--and only other--option. As of now, MY local Michelin dealer doesn't know whether or not he's EVER going to invest in the equipment.
And based on most posts here, many people ARE suspect of PAX technology, and for good reason. The few who have said it will keep their spouse safe on a cold dark night, could get the same piece of mind from a conventional run-flat.
Does anyone have any quotes from other Columbus area dealers?
1. IF, strong IF, the customer bought the van they would be very unhappy and tell their friends and Honda when they did the survey. According to him the surveys are a BIG DEAL with Honda.
2. IF you don't fall for the "bait and switch" then you will never go back anyway and tell others of your experience, right?
3. If they really wanted to sell it for that price and be happy with the profit, why not just give to you in the first place, then you would send others their way. Referral business is very important to Car dealers.
Regardless of intent and even if it was a mistake. This dealership has some serious issues with it's checks and balances. I have written a letter to every person on the board of directors detailing the situation and respectfully requesting an investigation. I have made no demands or threats to them.
It is my duty though as a consumer to make sure this situation is disseminated to other consumers. If you think about the situation, a less astute consumer might have accepted the in-house financing. In Texas this is against the Deceptive Trade Act and is considered consumer credit manipulation again illegal in the state of Texas.
There is so little benefit for the dealership to act in this way deliberately. And while I completely agree that they should have caught the error before, that's what makes errors errors. No one catches them soon enough.
Also, how would they know that you would not be in position to arrange additional financing. I'm sure if you got the money the first time, they would have to assume you could get financing again.
think about it. people generally and maybe only lie when it gives them an advantage. If lying gets you nothing positive but the truth does, WHY LIE??
> dealership to act in this way deliberately.
Of course there is. The dealership get's no part of my own financing, they do when they secure the financing. It allows them to play the monthly payment card and gives them a serious advantage in playing with the numbers including the interest rate. This is why paying cash for a vehicle is no longer advantageous for the consumer.
Profit on a vehicle "deal" comes from at least 4 places:
1) Profit over what they actually paid for the vehicle.
2) Rebates from the manufacturer(holdbacks).
3) Re-selling a trade-in.
4) Juice from the financing.
>RE: And while I completely agree that they
>should have caught the error before, that's what
>makes errors errors. No one catches them soon
>enough.
I maintain in this situation that they did catch the error, and didn't notify me. The salesman 'saw' the correct number entered into the computer and didn't advise me of it.
>RE: Also, how would they know that you would not
>be in position to arrange additional financing.
>I'm sure if you got the money the first time,
>they would have to assume you could get
>financing again.
I didn't fall for it, but a less astute consumer may have been in love with the vehicle and wanted to have it that night. Their only choice would have been to finance through the dealership. The dealer was playing to my emotions betting that I wouldn't walk.
>RE: people generally and maybe only lie when it
>gives them an advantage.
Which it would have had I taken the bait.
Remember my goal at this point is to expose a fraudulent technique to manipulate consumers. I'm not trying to get anything from the dealer at this point, they made the choice to do what they did and lost my and my families future business because of it.
That dealer KNEW the price was incorrect and tried to "manipulate" the customer into paying more. I suppose that's possible but it just seems pretty far fetched to me considering the large amount of money involved.
It's also possible that the customer KNEW a large mistake had been made and was just hoping upon hope it would'nt get caught. Now that the sale didn't happen, the customer is angry and lashing out?
It would be nice to be able to hear the other side of this story. I do command the poster for not naming names.
Assuming the worst, I'm embarassed that a Honda dealer would pull such a thing.
Price inc Delivery $31643
Dealer Fee 199
3 % VA Tax 955
Dealers Tax 63
License, Title 49.50
TOTAL OUT THE $32911
Door Price
Price included Mud Guards and Pin striping.
Duncan Hokie Honda, Christiansburg, VA near Roanoke.
Saved over $ 4,000 thanks to this forum.
Internet Manager is great, no games and best price around.