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Comments
1) A misfire on one of the cylinders, possibly only under low/no load. This is the first thing I would have checked out. It could have a variety of causes; spark plug, plug wire, timing, fuel injector, valves, and more.
2) A transmission problem, although I have never heard a specific issue that would cause roughness at a standstill.
Good luck,
-wdb
Good luck,
-Wes-
Garandman: "Not to put too fine a point on it....." LOL! That one tickled my funny bone.... thanks....
Subarus are indeed a bit narrow. We had a Britax Roundabout (? don't remember) and two Eddie Bauer booster seats and they fit three across with no extra room, and you have to move them back and forth to get the belts buckled. If you put the infant in the center it's extremely hard on your back to reach in like that and dos not improve the child.Some of the European brands (hard to find in the US) are narrower.
That's also why we went from two OBW's to one and a '99 Dodge Caravan [not Grand] Sport. It has bucket seats in the center row and we took the one of the driver's side out (on newer minivans they fold down or away).
So instead of reaching, climbing over each other, etc. now we open the sliding door, put all the kids in, shut the door (if it's cold) buckle them in, then walk up between the front seats and sit down. And carry two strollers and sometimes a bicycle. I think the passenger volume on the smaller minivans is almost exactly double that of an OBW.
Minivans aren't much better. Why? most can't take 3 kids in the second row, forcing you to use the third row. That kills the storage space and helping a 3yr old in the third row is tough. Toyata Sienna has an 8 passanger model that looks nice. Part of the reason we dumped our Grand Caravan was due to the poor second row.
--jay
Beyond the normal tune-up stuff (plugs, wires, filters, etc.) the easiest thing to do, especially on a car with 90,000 miles, is toss a bottle of injector cleaner in the tank next time you fuel up. I've used Red Line and Chevron, and both work quite well. Apparently slightly clogged injectors don't affect normal running at speed, but at idle and just coming off-idle, you can feel a noticeable improvement. My '90 Taurus SHO needed the stuff about every 6-10,000 miles after it had about 60,000 on it, and the improvement was almost instantaneous (don't know how it can clean them in just a miinute or two, but it seems so). I put some in our '02 Legacy when we bought it with 57,000 miles, and again saw a slight but noticeable improvement. Both cars had a slight off-idle stumble from dirty injectors. Our Subie is a stick shift, so clean injectors made it easier to learn the Subaru clutch. Your automatic is in "off-idle" mode whenever it is idling in gear, right?
Stanton
Any suggestions based on similar experiences?
Thanks for listening!
I had the same code, different cylinder on a 2000 obw and it turned out to be caused by a clogged fuel injector. I had neglected to change the fuel filter, and some debris was getting past the filter into the fuel injectors.
vetmats.
We've done this in our Legacy also.
The key is the middle seat, it's one of those boosters that simply raise the child up, they're more compact and don't have sides to them. Buckling that center belt was a pain.
I do think a Sienna would be ideal, because you can slide that center (8th) seat forward, offset from the other two, for more shoulder room.
Another vehicle that lets you do this is the Expedition.
As you can imagine both are larger/wider vehicles.
-juice
Yes the Expedition has more than enough. We have a Tahoe many for that reason and to tow a camper... Any of the big SUVs fit the need, however they tend to drink a bit more gas. Honda Pilot might fit the bill too. It was a close second choice for us.
I see Edmunds has the Tribecca avaliable in the databse for doing comparisons now.
However I have a feeling that "Outbackmom" really doesn't want to buy a new car. So squeeze them in best you can.
--jay
That's intentional, and it is due to size/taxation limitations in their home market. The Subaru Legacy is as just exactly as wide as it can be without falling into a higher tax bracket in Japan.
Cheers,
-wdb
There are two oxygen sensors (more correctly called a/f sensors - successor to the original O2 sensor design), one before the front cat, one behind it. The front one does most of the work in feeding back to the ECU for adjusting the injector duration to maintain stoichiometry. In closed loop mode, it makes quick adjustments around a center point, known as 'short term fuel trim' as you drive. Monitoring long term trends in vehicle performance and driving style, it makes broader map changes known as 'long term fuel trim'. This is the ECU 'adaptive' provision that you hear the folks here talk about.
I have not found much information that indicated that the rear sensor does much more than monitor and report on how well the cat is doing with final combustion of the gases it is given. I don't think it really effects driveability much unless it becomes an actual restriction to flow, or dissappears alltogether. If that is not the correct interpretation, someone let me know! So for now, I would not let their comments compel you to spend more money on another cat. I'd look elsewhere for a problem.
It is more likely that a sensor is compromised and is feeding the ECU bad data. That is what lead me to buy the scan system. I get occasional driveability problems, and have logged a front O2 sensor (P0130) code. The nice thing about a computer tool is that you get the full snapshot of the conditions logged by OBDII, (freezeframe data) and not just a code number. It gives a dozen parameters, such as road speed, engine speed, manifold pressure, calculated engine load, fuel trims, air and coolant temps, etc. So now I am trying to look for trends before going back to the dealer.
Interesting tidbit. Slow response from the O2 sensor can be from surface contamination on the element in the exhaust stream. Ethylene Glycol can do this. Watch your coolant level to see if there is some correllation to when it acts up, and fluid loss. You might have a leaking head gasket.
Steve
Of course, it's just not available yet. It is significantly wider, and does have a 40/20/40 split fold seat that is nifty. Plus a 3rd row option.
-juice
The engine ran very smoothly until I put in drive and was stopped.
They finally admitted it needed a new transmission but the insurance people did not want to spend the extra
money because they had already paid the body shop $6500 plus my deductible.
They could not completely repair the car so they ended up totaling the car and
sold it to someone in VT. I ended up losing my mint condition
Subie but they did give me a $10,800 check for it.
That made me recall that in my 00 OB manual there's a warning not to use fuel with more than 10%(?) ethylene content. Or something like that. Generally this results in lower pollution levels, so I have wondered why this warning is there.
Just my fuzzy brain churning again.
Emily Latella: What's all this I hear about not burning xxxx in my engine. That stuff is good for you, helps reduce dependence on foreign oil, and reduces emissions....
Chevy Chase: That's yyyyy, not xxxxx
Emily Latella: Oh.... Never mind.....
Sorry, Brian! I just couldn't resist!
I don't have a CRC Handbook handy, but IIRC, Ethylene Glycol is a kind of double alcohol, related to ethanol. Like two double carbon hydroxals bonded together? But far from the same thing.... The owners manual probably suggested against any gas-alcohol blend (methanol, or ethanol) over 10%. I think the problem is attack of some sealing materials in fuel pumps, plus alcohols affinity for water can sometimes lead to corrosion of metals.
Steve
The car pulls to the right. I took it in and they performed a four wheel alignment, but it still pulls to the right. I am going to call them and have them look at it again, but I can't figure out what would cause this, since they just aligned it a week ago.
A burning smell comes in through the vents when I am not running the AC but the fan is on. I first noticed it a couple days ago, when I revved the engine near the redline. It is similar to the smell of a hair dryer that's overheated.
When I accelerate, in first and second gear, I hear a lot of transmission whine. Similar to the sound made when driving quickly in reverse. Is this normal? I thought I should only be able to hear the engine, the exhaust, and maybe some road noise from the tires. My car sounds like a go-kart with this whine...
I am concerned about these three problems. I am afraid if I take it to the dealer, they will just tell me the burning smell has no source, and that the whine I hear is normal, when I don't think it is.
Can anyone offer any insight???
Originally, I took it to the dealer in Alabama where I bought it, and they couldn't hear it. Now, since I moved to Kansas, the noise happens on a daily basis (it is very dry, and very windy here). I have been dealing with the dealer here, and they have been trying to fix it under warranty. At this point they are unwilling to do anything else until the "Subaru rep" approves it.
I have been told that this is a problem that other Outbacks (and other Subaru models possibly?) have had, and since they have tried to fix it twice (first by replacing rubber parts (gussets I think) on the side windows, and then by re-sealing the windshield), that at this point the "Subaru rep" will have to see me/it before any further action to be taken. I don't understand why the service managers can't tell/ask the Subaru rep to just approve for it to be fixed without having to see it.I almost feel as if they don't believe me that I have this problem. Recently, before a trip that I take frequently to South Central Kansas, during which I endure almost constant screaming from this windshielf because I drive for three hours in a southwesterly/westerly direction, I decided to take matters into my own hands and put duct tape around the windshield. Voila, fixed it. No noise. Now, what I don't understand is this...if I can fix the problem with a $1 roll of duct tape, why can't someone at Subaru fix my darn car?
This problem is so bad that I am thinking about trading it and never buying another Subaru. That is sad, because I really love the car.
Any help is most appreciated. Sorry for the lengthy message.
1) If duct tape around the edges solves the problem, then a tube of RTV sealer should do wonders. It has to be something that lifts with high wind velocity. Try backing off on the tape until you find the spot, if you don't want to use sealer around the entire thing.
2) Go to a glass shop, and pay for new surround mouldings to be put in.
3) Find a friend with a big rock... forget that suggestion...
Seriously, if it is bad enough that you would consider selling a car you really love, then you need to pony up $100-$200 and get it fixed by a professional. I figure it will cost you at least $1000-$2000 to sell and buy something else (just in sales tax and tags alone), so stop being miserable and get it fixed!
Steve
I told the Sub guy that I would pay for it to be fixed, and forget the warranty if they would just fix it. He still didn't have the ideas that you did.
I appreciate it muchly.
S.
I had the windshield replaced due to a small chip in the line of vision. The replacement moulding around the glass is very different and much flatter than the original moulding. I would think the new moulding is more resistant to the whistling. The original moulding was shaped like a "C". I believe the intent was to direct water from the windshield to the roof rather than to the side windows. I like Steve's idea of filling in the section with silicone.
Hope you find a fix!
Jim
Second, the smell. Is it a manual? There are a lot of reports of 'clutch stink'. There are a bunch of threads on legacygt forum. If it is an auto, it's probably the center differential engaging.
Last, the transmission whine. Is it the tranny, or the turbo? Rob M.
I had a 2001 Outback with a clutch that shuddered horribly almost since new...it took 50,000 miles of me documenting the problem at every service visit (each time being told it was normal). Finally, in December 2003, the TSB was released and Subaru made the updated parts available. The new clutch didn't cost me anything, but the issue had been well documented since the car was new.
In the absence of a "history" on your car, they may decide to only cover part of the repair at this point, but there is absolutely a fix out there. If your dealer won't help, perhaps it might be worth a drive to a different one. Good luck -- I know it's frustrating!
Brian
To begin with, note that there is a Subaru Service Advisory on this, that was released in April, 2004 (bulletin # 12-82-04). So before you kill yourself trying this on your own, see if you can get your dealer to do it for free!
Craig Hunter is our master of door glass adjustment, and posted instructions previously on his web page: http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/gusset/
If it is no longer available, I did copy it and have it as a powerpoint file. But you will have to post an e-mail so that I can send it to you.
Steve
Any ideas?
It IS a manual. I will see if I can find anything in the forum on "clutch stink." Is it just something I have to live with, or is it sign of a problem with the clutch?
The whine is definitely not from the turbo. The whine comes when I accelerate, not when I rev the engine. I can only hear it in first and second gear; the volume and pitch seem to be directly rated to the rate of acceleration. Once in third, even when the RPM are high, I cannot hear the whine. If I am idling, motionless, and rev the engine, I cannot hear the whine.
I'm concerned about it. I am positive the dealership will just tell me it's normal, when in fact it's not. And with my luck, whatever is wrong will cause other parts to fail; ones that are not covered under warranty.
I know you've got a different engine than I do, but the concept is similar and it sounds like you're hearing the turbo at exactly the same times I am on my car -- which is to say, when the car is under load and not at rest. Sounds normal to me.
Brian
Then again, I can hear the whine even when I am not near a wall, and with my windos up or down.
I'll check it out, though - thanks!
In my case they kept telling me they couldn't reproduce the shudder ('00 Legacy GT). But my constant complaints also got me a free clutch at 63,000 miles once Subaru finally faced up to the problem and the TSB came out.
Morals to the story? Okay, I'll give it a go :-)
1) Unfortunately it sometimes takes a while for manufacturers to 'fess up.
2) Document, document, document.
3) Maintain a good working relationship with the dealer.
4) If #3 becomes impossible, find another dealer! There are good ones.
5) Replace the throwout bearing while the clutch is being done!
Cheers,
-wdb
-juice
This leads me to believe that this maybe a "ping" and the computer take ~10 mins to compensate and adjust.
Is this normal? What can I do to quiet this down? Any suggested additives?
Thank you
Thanks
PJ
1. 98 OB @ 53K for $10,900
2. 03 OB @ 79K for $12,500
The 03 was a sales car w/ all highway miles and regular check ups @ 30 & 60, as well as oil change every 3.
Not much history on the 98- its being sold by a dealer so has had a through inspection.
The question is: Is it better to get an older car w/ lower mileage or a newer car w/ higher?
(Currently I drive a 93 Legacy Sedan w/ 140K...so high miles doesn't scare me as much.)
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks.
That said, there are some terrific deals right now, and I would try to get a new or newrly new one for almost the same money. For instance, I bought a new 2004 Outback (base) from McCurley in Pasco, WA for $17,340 on August 26, 2004. Seems like you could get an 05 for about that now, and there's a world of difference.......more than the $5000 difference just in warranty alone.
Basically, you are hearing oscillation within the cylinder bore of the tail end of the piston (known as the piston skirt). This is not a Subaru-only problem, although I wonder if the horizontal layout rather than more vertical arrangement of common engines might exacerbate the issue. In the quest for reduced mass (higher revving, reduced friction), the length of the piston below the wrist pin is trimmed. Until everything has expanded to equilibrium, it 'shakes' slightly, making the noise. A number of sources have reported that it does not appear to cause damage, but it sure does make a racket. Subaru issued a tech bulletin advising the service people to inform customers that all is well.
But just to be sure, take it in and have them listen to it. You are still in the powertrain warranty, so it is certainly worth the piece of mind to get an opinion. Let us know what you come up with.
Steve
Steve
My '00 Legacy GT had a seeping head gasket. Coolant would leak out onto the exhaust where it would vaporize. It was a tiny leak but wow did it make a lot of smell. It only happened when the car was cold and the weather was cold. Any other conditions and it did not happen. The leak was so minor that I never even noticed the coolant level dropping.
Finally one very cold day the smell got *really* strong and I figured, enough. Took it to the dealer and they did the head gasket under warranty.
Let us know what it finally turns out to be.
Good luck,
-wdb
I drive little less than 10 miles from work to home and when I get out of my car I smell it. There are no visible leaks, nor do I notice the coolant level dropping.
Last year we drove to Florida in mid Oct. and the smell was so strong that at a gas station, a section over someone made a comment about how strong the smell was.
Question is, how to get the dealers to do the head gasket work, when they like to put it off until it is no longer under warranty.
I had no idea about the head gasket problems. Good to know.
I am going to take the 03 into a mechanic tomorrow for a 'once over' and if all looks good, I'll likely buy it!
I appreciate your feedback. Very helpful.
The clutch stink apparently has no solution. I've read about other owners complaining over at legacygt.com.
With regard to the gear whine, I don't recall hearing any when I test drove a 5MT LGT last summer (I bought an auto, however). Perhaps the dealer can let you try some other LGTs to see if you have a louder than normal gearset?
Ken
Mike k