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Comments
Better than the RX7 or the Z?
Also, for it to achieve those performance numbers you listed it is going to have to be pretty light, which is a good thing.
Even if I could get one now I wouldn't pay any dealer mark-up. I'm not that impatient. But I hope it turns out to be as popular as you say. It might increase the chances of Mazda offering a 2 door/2 seat version.
I want my rotary gas guzzling and smoke spewing!!!!
www.mazdarx-8.com is the official website and pricing will come active on Jan 8 2003. Also this is the day that dealers can accept pre-sale orders. The delivery schedule depends on when the car is ordered. They have pretty much told us that they expect the order bank to be filled by the end of March.
order in jan and expect deliv. june-aug
feb----deliv july-sept
march--deliv aug-oct.
If you order through this pre-sell program mazda will email the customer directly the status and progress of your order...they will also be sending pre-sell customers a number of 'surprise and delight' gifts from Mazda.
This would become even more apparent when one is carrying 3-4 people in the car. It seems a bit odd to me that Mazda would give the car so little torque and 4 doors.
I love rotaries :-)
I personally love the way the RX-8 looks and I would like to be equally enthusiatic about all it's other attributes. I would just like for the assessments to not be based too much upon a rotary fanatic's POV.
In that sense, and with this price, I start to question the value of the rotary in a world of 240+ hp V6 sedans at the same price point.
That said, none of those V6 sedans look as hot as the RX-8.
Still, the more I look at the RX-8, the more I like it, and the more I like it better than the 350Z. In my opinion, the RX-8 has the Z beat on both exterior and interior styling, despite having four doors and four seats (both minuses in my book).
Personally, I hope the RX-8 is a runaway success -- so that we'll be seeing the new RX-7 soon. The rumors tell of a naturally-aspirated 300 HP Renesis, bored to a larger displacement. Put that engine on a two-door RX-8 platform; make it lighter, shorter, and sleeker; and price it around $32K -- and that's the car I want to buy.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?previews/previews_story.php?id=25630
of which contains this little snippet:
"Maximum power is at a heady 8,500rpm, just shy of the 9,000rpm red line, while a torque figure of 216Nm is developed at 7,500rpm. It's easy to imagine that the RX-8 is slow to respond at low revs, but it obviously loves being pushed – some 90 per cent of the torque is available from only 3,250rpm, so the engine feels strong in the mid-range."
Bad timing for Honda, but good times for enthusiast buyers...
but of course, you get what you pay for. Like the Z, the RX-8 will be track-capable right off the lot, while the Accord will just understeer at every turn due to its heavy weight and FWD.
For most, though, the RX-8 falls squarely into the "entry level sporty performance coupe" category. Right now that category has two groups of players. One group consists of the the upscale rockets (RSX-S, Celica GTS, GTI GLX, Mustang GT, etc.) while the other coupe consists of the entry level lux/sport coupes (Accord V6 MT, CL-S, 325Ci, G35c, maybe the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP). The first group supplies the attitude, spunkiness, muscle or lithe handling, but shoppers of these cars might have difficulty affording a RX-8. The second group tends to have much more upscale trappings and draw in older, non-racer types, who may not be comfortable with a "track-ready" suspension or a high-revving engine.
As such, I expect the RX-8 to be (like most coupes that take the "performance" angle a little too seriously) a high priced, low volume seller that isn't as important to Mazda as, say, the Miata or the Mazda 6, and may not do as well against volume heavyweights like an Accord. The more interesting cars, in my opinion, are the potential descendents of the RX-8. Specifically, the rotary two-seat sports car that some have alluded to here, and the convertible version of the RX-8 that many mags have been speculating about. I'd have a tough time paying upper $20s for a RX-8 in its first year out, but the same price for a convertible version? Against Solaras and Sebrings, a topless 2+2 Mazda would have no trouble finding my dollars. If you think about it, nothing short of a $40k 3-series convertible would touch a convertible RX-8.
The RX-8, for the time being, will be Mazda's 'halo' car in its lineup, representing the epitome of Mazda engineering (led by the one and only RENESIS Wankel). As such it will never be the volume leader like the Accord, and it will be priced like a low-volume car. I'm not sure how many Z's Nissan are projecting to sell, but I'd say Mazda is hoping for similar numbers from the RX-8, or even more since it's got 2 more seats.
a Convertible RX-8? never! what are they gonna do, take out the little quad-cab rear doors and make it a true coupe? heck, while we're at it why don't we shorten the wheelbase and take out the rear seats and call it the RX-7?!?!?
Road and Track felt that the very existence of the rear doors (requiring a chassis with limited side column bracing a la Mercedes CLK) is strong evidence of a convertible. Moreover according to the link posted above, the RX-8 uses the same sort of backbone frame as the S2000--another convertible.
As for, "The RX-8, for the time being, will be Mazda's 'halo' car in its lineup",
I agree. All I'm saying is that as a longtime owner and fan of one of Honda's halo cars (the Prelude) I know what the fate of these sorts of vehicles are. Halo vehicles are tough sells when they are pushed out the door in coupe form. Mazda's not dumb; they know this. That's why I see the RX-8 being a first step. The real halo car is a few years away.
as for the 6 speed, who doesn't like rowing through 4 gears just to get to 40mph from the stoplight :-D
This is exactly what my concern is-- I've had a high-revving Honda, and I loved it... as long there were no more than 2 of us in it! The RX-8 is inviting 4 people to sit in it, and I am concerned that it'll be really slow off the line due to the extra passengers.
I've sat in the back of a G35C and was comfortable (I'm only 5'7"), but ingress/egress left something to be desired. The engine, of course, could pull 4 people around without hesitation.
My only other concern with the RX-8 (hey, no car is perfect) is the digital speedometer. Obviously, not a deal-breaker, but outside of the clock and radio controls, I dislike digital output.
:-D
Who cares?
The car has merit because it allows you to OCCASIONALLY take a couple of extra folks (wife and kids maybe) out for a bite to eat and still provide plenty of entertainment value for the 95% of the time when its just you and the car. I really don't anticipate having to uphold my manhood against some snotnose in a Mustang while I've got the family aboard.
How often do you really expect to see 4 people in a G35c anyway?
The RX-8 actually has 4 doors that "invite" others to sit down, without a second thought.... until you have to do with a low-torque motor. I view the RX-8 as a sedan-- something I should easily be able to carry 4 people in without trouble.
The G35c would be more of an impractical car in this sense (due to people having to climb in and out with some difficulty).
I think the driving characteristics of the RX-8 will change significantly depending on how many people you have in the car.
On second thought, the G35c wouldn't be affected as much, simply from the standpoint that the G35c is a much heavier (porkier?) car to begin with. If you're all that worried about available torque with a full passenger load, go get yourself a used Impala SS.
kinda like adding weight ballast to a leading car in a race to even out the competition you know ;-)
Source? When I was asking about weight a few months ago, people were citing 3000lbs curb weight. 2800lbs/250hp is very attractive.
As for the weigh issue, I'd be with mikemajesty, etc., on wondering why it matters if the RX-8 were priced in the low to mid $20s as a direct competitor to cars like the RSX-S and WRX. But, if it's really starting at $26k, runs into the $30s, and is unlikely to be discounted, then suddenly I'm cross-shopping it against Accord V6 6MTs, Infiniti G35s and the like, and all of those cars have significantly more grunt, along with some luxury trappings. I have absolutely no problem with a lithe, semi-spartan, high-revving, great handling two-seater or 2+2. I happen to own one of each. However, my beloved Prelude was cancelled because its price *approached* that of the RX-8, and in the RX-8 I see a very, very similar car: phenomenal handling, ok interior, somewhat torque-deficient engine, 2+2 config. It'll be a halo car, yes, but it'll be a tough sell for the price if it's a $30k coupe with 150 ftlbs of torque. And the moment a RX-7 (or some variant) comes along, it'll be dropped like a rock just as Honda dropped the Prelude the moment the S2000 showed up on the scene. I'm having a hard time seeing the RX-8 lasting long or selling well with a two-seater on the horizon, and i have a hard time seeing Mazda disregarding the two-seat market given their expertise with the Miata and their long rotary roadster history going all the way back to the, what was it, the Cosmo?
I'll be blunt - I see the RX-8 as a technology mule designed to market "zoom zoom" for 24 months before Mazda debuts a rotary sports car. My prediction: by 2007 there will be no "sport" RX-8.
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/mazda_rx8.asp
http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/ArticleDisplay.asp?ArticleID=7&page=5#rx8_specs
Besides, even at 2970lbs, it is still nearly 500 lbs lighter than the G35c. A healthy V6 (and that much loved torque) will certainly help offset that in the G.......as far as acceleration goes. But mass is mass is mass. A healthy V6 doesn't help a bit in the handling department.
I get back to my earlier question: why do we care how the car performs with 4 passengers? Anybody know of ANY publication which routinely tests cars with anything more than the driver and a half tank of gas? Jeez, do you think a sportbike owner worries that the guy on the Harley is gonna spank him in the off chance they both have passengers?
The name of the publication isn't "Car and Occupants" for a reason.....
To call the RX8 a sports car, then extend its wheel base, add 2 doors and look at this as a convenience. Well...if thats how it makes you feel, then I think this might be the wrong car for you.
I personally dont want the extra doors for convenience. I would prefer a better looking sports coupe, with cramped rear seating (or none), and a shorter wheel base.
I look at mazda as a company which ruined, what potentially could of been a potentially great sports car.
As far as rumors, speculations of a upcoming 2 seat rotary car. Well...I'll believe it when I see it. And if sales of the RX8 are what will determine the fate of an upcoming car like that..Well I wish them luck.
We care because we're not auto journalists. Someday when I grow up and become a Car and Driver writer, then I'll wax poetic about how great a car handles with one person in it while streetracing. And, I won't care about anything else because heck, it's not like I'm paying for the thing. Heck, maybe I'll spend more time talking about the optional wheels than the actual driving experience, a la Edmunds and their Ferrari long-term vehicle.
Until that day when I no longer have to live in the real world, I'm going to wonder how a car marketed as a $30,000 posh high-utility four-person vehicle is going to accelerate with a high revving, low torque engine. I'm going to compare it to my experiences driving a similarly sized car with a similar engine. I'm going to care, and wonder whether it's right for a car to aim for the compact sport sedans while wearing a compact sport coupe engine.
The magazines never, ever tell the full story. If they did, I wouldn't be reading anything on these town halls because I wouldn't need to.
check out the RX-8 from the X-Men sequal 'X2'!
LA Times Article
http://www.rotarynews.com/
Now Mazda is set to release a car with somewhat better performance in a car which will make it MUCH easier for my 2 and 4-yr old girls to clamber into the back. Am I worried that I may not be able to keep up with the neighbor in his G35c with 4 adults while I've got the family aboard my RX-8? No. Because the vast majority of the time (just like owners of most other sport sedans), I'll be the only one in the car.
http://autoshow.msn.com/autoshow2003/article.aspx?xml=Mazda
base price for the base model w/ automatic: $25,180
base price for high-powered 6-speed: $26,680
price will top out at no more than $32,000
Dealers will take pre-orders starting TOMORROW, so go call your local dealers if you want one!
Rich, any additional inputs?
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1588
nice and flat compared to a V-TEC engine :-P
BTW, the Prelude's torque curve is flatter than you might think -- that's the entire point of VTEC (two cams with different peaks spread out the curve). The power curve, on the other hand, is a different matter...