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Comments
Has anyone seen or know when the Sandstone is due or looks like. I don't have much confidence in the pictures.
Thanks.
Yes, properly securing a car seat with a belt is a safe implementation. However, even people who take extra care to put a seat in could be making simple mistakes...even yourself. When I move our car seats around, I kneel in the seat, am very meticulous about getting the belt tight, etc... I still find it difficult to get it just right. So hopefully the latch system will make it easier for everyone to do it right.
So there is a big advantage, considering statistics show that a lot of people put their seats in cars wrong. The advantage is that more children will be travelling safely. I agree with your sentiment about securing seats, but ignoring the truth is ignornant.
You're right, for folks who don't take the time to properly secure the child seats, LATCH should be an advance.
But if AHMC doesn't add/increase/change the LATCH positions, I won't be heartbroken.
Personally I think the change would get LOTS of lawyers involved and WON'T HAPPEN BECUASE OF FEARS OF LAWSUITS!
Sad but true...
many of my wife's friend's don't have their seats secured correctly and my heart freezes when I see how much the carseat actually moves.
are they bad people? nope. just ignorant. if they have a car with the latch system, at least now I can show them how easy it is to do with the latch system and a tether. maybe that will be enough to get them to do it.
I am considering buying a Pilot but need all the cargo space I can get
most realists (like me) and pessimists think otherwise and always plan for the unexpected. it can be thought of as anal by some, but hey, i'm sure my twin infants will not jettison out of the window should an accident occur.
i also cringe when i see our friends' child seat installation (in addition to the interior of their vehicles which never gets cleaned. i mean, infants and toddlers don't make a mess, right?)
I think most people just don't understand physics at a very basic level. If they did, they would try to be more careful.
FYI - I do not have any LATCH straps and it still worked, though it took patience to get a tight fit. It was actually easier in a Volvo XC, which is why I have not committed to the Pilot yet, but it did work fine in the Pilot.
Hope this helps.
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
This is posted on the other board.
If you have your Pilot and has the "Creaking or Ticking from the Dashboard or a Front Strut", go to this link, an offical Hondar Service Bulletin.
So you will wonder why don't they fix it on the production line !!!
http://www.honda-pilot.org/images/1.pdf
If you don't have your Pilot yet, you may want to print out this "PDI and New Model Information", bring it on the delivery day and check it one more time before you get your Pilot.
http://www.honda-pilot.org/images/2.pdf
Incase, you have a sharp eye and ask, the Pilot (EX model) was orginially planed to equipt with 6 pack CD changer, that's why to check the 6 CD pack is on the PDI list for the dealer.
I have not have time to bring my Pilot in for the Creaking noise yet. It is all because not matter hoe I press hard to the manager that sold me the Pilot, he will not promise a loaner (free).
Good luck to all.
Anyway, I have some updates for you. I bought a Britax Roundabout with LATCH yesterday at Babies R Us. I must be one of the first to get it as it is just hitting shelves. This morning, we went to the dealer and installed it in the Pilot by faking a LATCH in the center position. I brought a tape measure with me and confirmed that the inner points of the inner prongs are exactly 20" apart, so it is right at the edge of what Britax will allow. We were able to get a fairly tight fit, but the LATCH strap interfered with the seat that is supposed to fold forward to reach the back. It was really not ideal. We also tried attaching it with the seat belt in the center, but could not get a rock solid fit. We got our knees into it, etc., etc., but it too was not ideal.
Someone suggested earlier on the board that seat belts are fine and it's not such a big deal. I feel differently. The LATCH system dramaticly improves the ease of installation and, in most cases, makes a perfect fit possible in all positions. Having it on the sides but not the center encourages people who just have one child to use the sides when they might otherwise have installed the seat in the center (the safest spot!). Add up all the vehicles where this is the case, and you likely have some infant deaths and injuries attributed to this.
I am not saying Honda is awful. They are just doing what 90% of the other mfrs are doing, and it is in compliance with the law that just requires LATCH in 2 positions. It's up to us consumers to demand more if the law won't. I called Honda today and asked them what I might do to encourage them to add it to future model years. They indicated that they keep a log of all requests for their designers, and they will listen if they get even a few calls with the same request. If anyone else feels inspired to call, the number is 800 999-1009.
I think unknowledgeable is the best replacement for ignorant, even though I personally think there was nothing wrong with ignorant to begin with.
as far as the center seat in the middle row for latch, the center is NEVER ideal for a child seat with buckets in front...you should always put the kids behind another seat. the activity tray also makes this difficult with the folding armrest and all...even the accord's center rear seat doesnt have latch.
and yes, the center seat in the rear has latch.
to the question about 3 child seats in the middle row...you should be able to do it, but if you cant, you can always lay the '60' side of the 3rd row down and use the '40' side for your 3rd seat.
this will keep a good majority of your storage space available.
Has anyone noticed this too and what can be done to minimize the problem?????
Bowke - I have to correct you on your comment that the middle seat is never the safest in cars with "buckets" (I assume you mean captain's style chairs) in the front and you should always install car seats behind another seat. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE! As long as you can get a good fit in the center, experts agree that the middle is the safest place for a couple of reasons: 1)It's furthest away from the sides in the event of a side impact, and 2) it's less likely that the child's head will impact another object (i.e. the seat in front of it) in the car as the seat lurches forward in an accident. Also, the center seat in the rear does NOT have LATCH. Perhaps you are confusing LATCH with tether anchor points, which are found in all 2nd and 3rd row positions. LATCH is found only in the 2nd row outboard positions.
All I can say is that I have gotten the Roundabout to be rock solid. It does not move side-to-side; you hear the plastic and foam creaking but it does not move. It does not move forward-and-back either, I just hear more plastic creak when I pull or push on it. I've been able to duplicate this installation over a half-dozen times.
Silly question, but we are talking forward-facing installation, correct? I'm assuming that's what are shooting for with the LATCH install but wanted to make sure. (I was able to install the Roundabout very securely in rear-facing mode too, using belts -- however, it required Britax's top tether to be used to stabilize the seat properly.)
I believe the Odyssey and Nissan minivan have a similar arrangement. It is different, but I've found that it does not interfere with the driver's visual field, something I was surprised at but it made sense once I drove with it down.
You're probably already familiar with www.carseatdata.org. It's a non-commercial website that features a database of fitting specific models of car seats to specific vehicles. I've added entries for everything I've tried so far. Unfortunately the Pilot seems to have been introduced too recently for any Pilot-specific submissions to be in there.
I've also always understood the middle position to be the safest, and that is where my daughter has been for the past two years. Now that we are expecting #2 in a few months, I hate having to have both kids in the outboard positions.
Yes, I am talking about installing the seat forward facing. My daughter is two. I would have been concerned about the armrest if she were still rear facing.
I just came back up from downstairs and my arm is a bit sore ;-). If I pull at the front plastic handle with one arm, I can get maybe a quarter-inch of play and then it stops firmly. If I pull with both hands I get perhaps a half-inch of play.
I think whatever movement I can get is well within the advised limits, based on the childseat class that my wife and I attended before our baby was born. I suspect that quarter-inch, perhaps half-inch, is due to the fact that I have a bath towel underneath the seat, and the smooth plastic just slips across it. Perhaps a more rubbery seat saver would grab more.
I don't know if this helps, but I did fiddle a bit with the rear seat cushion angle to try to get the seat to follow the contours of the Roundabout (based on the current recline I'm using). I will warn folks that if you make it that tight, it will create some impression on the leather and supporting foam cushioning underneath, even with a towel there. But I think it's worth it.
g8tor:
We're hoping for our second in several months, and have similar concerns. I'm going to try to put the infant in the middle and the toddler outboard, and see if that works. Some folks have reported success getting a variety of three seats across, though with some rubbing and with some access issues.
On the MDX, I found that the lip of our infant seat (on top of its base) was high enough that I had no worries about the center armrest (and I don't think it was an issue anyway). Britax is coming out with a new infant seat and a new convertible seat that both have a "stabilizer bar" to minimize seat kickback in a rear-end collision. It looks as if the bar will pin down a long armrest. Unfortunately, Britax North America seems to be taking forever (again!) to get their new products on store shelves.
my comment about the center seat that sits behind air...lol...was targeted at rear facing infant seats...the front seats would stop the possible forward momentum of the saet, and a properly secured baby wouldnt move past the top of the carrier. my fear with my son would be, not the car's restraint system, but the mechanism that allows me to remove the carrier from the base. thats what scares me, especially since most rear facing seats cannot use the tether anchors.
A small child has a weak neck and a large head in relation to the rest of the body. This is why small children are safest travelling with their backs towards the direction of travel. In a frontal collision, the body is pressed against the backrest and the strain on the child's head and neck is minimised. International studies have shown that children up to the age of three are twice as safe in a rearward-facing child safety seat as they are facing forwards.
Age of 3? Isn't that a little too long?
Also, I might be diverging completely from Pilot-specific discussion.
Here is what the American Academy of Pediatrics says:
http://www.aap.org/policy/re0116.html
"... face the rear of the vehicle until ... at least 1 year of age and weigh at least 20 lb ... Infants who weigh 20 lb before 1 year of age should ride rear facing in a ... seat approved for higher weights until at least 1 year of age. If a ... seat accommodates ... rear facing to higher weights, for optimal protection ... remain rear facing until reaching the maximum weight for the ... seat, as long as the top of the head is below the top of the seat back."
The key word is "optimal." They are saying that you should keep the child rear-facing until at least 20 lbs AND 1 year. But they are also saying that if you want "optimal" protection, you can keep them rear-facing as long as they fit the weight and height restrictions of the seat (typically, for a convertible seat, 30 lbs rear-facing, though I think there are/will be ones that go to 35 lbs).
That all said, I think some kids (and parents) won't handle keeping a 2-year-old rear-facing.
It is the parents'/guardians' decision.
Our son is fairly large, and at 10.5 months our pediatrician told us that his neck and head were sufficiently developed that we could make him forward facing. She said that the 1 year/20 thing is the general guideline as the minimum requirement, since AAP has to consider the variances of child development.
But we still kept our son rear-facing a while longer, I forgot exactly how long (but it was well short of 18 months).
It's all up to the parents. I wonder if this suggests that vehicles should have passenger seats that face rearward. ;-)
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
But then what you're left with is what you described. My son has a habit of chucking his sippy cup when he thinks he's done with it. He'd have have to lose the habit if an infant sibling is right next to him! So you're absolutely right, I think you'd have to try it and see if the siblings get along! Perhaps she'd really baby and coo over the infant, perhaps not.
I press the sales manager for free loaner as to test how much he treasure me as a good buyer, as I did not give him hard time when I finish the deal for the Pilot. And I notice the creaking struct noice on the delivery day when I was driving home and called him right away. He said he will TRY to get something for me. Have not heard from him since. Thanks anyway for your comment.
bodydouble - yes it is a long time I have not posted, as I'm enjoying with relatives in my Pilot for the summer.
Only on smooth, or resurfaced freeway then the Pilot is VERY quiet.
If you read the latest Pilot test review, eg the Canadiandriver web site, the author hints that it is not that good in rough pavement. I think he is just kind enough not to make the owner of his test-Pilot so mad that he may not get the next test drive from them!!! Just kidding.
If anyone notice, someone already asked, the new EX models come with power passenger seats with height adjustment. As said in the Canadiandriver review.
Can new owners confirm that.
The power of the car is more than I need, I do not tow. But it drinks gas quicker than I want, more noticable when gas price is at 70 cents.
Not enough cargo space when you have 8 people and their belongs to a resort. Time to share yours friends min van truck, who goes with you.
Handling is good, in terms of the braking, steering and power combination. But not close to the same family sedan, say Accord (I'm asking too much, I know)
Still drawing a lot of attention on the raod and parking lot.
The price of Pilot is coming down, at least from car4u web site, they have $900 discount without asking. And the supply is more.
I posted that MDX maybe delayed by the production of the Pilot way back in mid-July. But someone said that it is the water pump defects that delay the MDX.
They posted a TBS in MDX forum with affected VIN #. There is a stamp # '9' on the water pump itself that is defected. I think Pilot use the same water pump.
The defect will eventurly torn down the timeing belt (chain ? anyone knows).
So it seems to me a big concern.
A lot of owner trade in their new Goodyear with Michelin Cross Terrain on deliverly day from big tire store, which seems to be the only same size tire that recommended by Tire Rack.
Most owners say Cross Terrain is quieter, and more like MDX (solid) feel. They (US owners)got good deals at that time like $75 @ (old stock), I think it raise to $90 now (new shippment). Supply and demand, again !
But personally I do not like the raised white letter (RWL), not sure is it easy to get the one without RWL.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I50F23F91
Michelin Cross Terrains Tirerack rating scroll down
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V4EE25F91
It appears that there is a difference between the two tires as far as road noise is concerned, although it doesn't seem to be much difference.
There is already a TSB 02-055, dated August 21, 2002.
Safety Recall: V6 Engine Water Pump.
Vehicles affected, 2002 Accord, 2002 Odyssey, 2003 Pilot.
Vin # for Pilot From 2HKYF1....3H513603 THRU 2HKYF1....3H517522
Please double check from this link
http://www.honda-pilot.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=963
Wish your Pilot is not within that affected VIN #.
According to the TSB, "Not every vehicle in the VIN ranges given is affected by this recall..."
Mind is not within range.
It is a safety recall, so be aware !!!!