Saw the Sagebrush today. Quite different than I thought or from the picture in the brochure. Not very green, almost charcoal grey. Darker and bluer in person. The fern interior was much greyer and light than expected too.
Has anyone seen or know when the Sandstone is due or looks like. I don't have much confidence in the pictures. Thanks.
I think you are mistaking general interest and information gathering for controversy. Actually the Pilot and MDX are ahead of the game in safety, very soon (about 2 weeks) every other car will be required to include this as a standard feature.
Yes, properly securing a car seat with a belt is a safe implementation. However, even people who take extra care to put a seat in could be making simple mistakes...even yourself. When I move our car seats around, I kneel in the seat, am very meticulous about getting the belt tight, etc... I still find it difficult to get it just right. So hopefully the latch system will make it easier for everyone to do it right.
So there is a big advantage, considering statistics show that a lot of people put their seats in cars wrong. The advantage is that more children will be travelling safely. I agree with your sentiment about securing seats, but ignoring the truth is ignornant.
sbcooke is correct. the latch system will help many many more people install secure their seats better than before. It's much easier to secure with a latch and tether system.
many of my wife's friend's don't have their seats secured correctly and my heart freezes when I see how much the carseat actually moves.
are they bad people? nope. just ignorant. if they have a car with the latch system, at least now I can show them how easy it is to do with the latch system and a tether. maybe that will be enough to get them to do it.
Has anyone fit three infant/toddler car seats side by side by side in the second row of the Pilot? I am considering buying a Pilot but need all the cargo space I can get
i'm with bodydouble...i'm not sure they're ignorant. most people just think that bad things only happen to other people, never to them. this is why some are haphazard with matters such as child seat installation because nothing bad is gonna happen anyway, right?
most realists (like me) and pessimists think otherwise and always plan for the unexpected. it can be thought of as anal by some, but hey, i'm sure my twin infants will not jettison out of the window should an accident occur.
i also cringe when i see our friends' child seat installation (in addition to the interior of their vehicles which never gets cleaned. i mean, infants and toddlers don't make a mess, right?)
Yes, when I test drove a Pilot I brought with me an infant seat, a toddler seat, and a booster seat and I was able to put all three in. Depending on the style of the seats, it can be a close fit. For my seats I found it best to put the infant seat in the middle and the toddler seat behind the driver. That puts both on the 60% side, leaving the booster seat alone on the 40% side. The advantage I found is that the child in the booster seat needs to be able to reach down and buckle the seatbelt, while the other seats can stay buckled all the time. FYI - I do not have any LATCH straps and it still worked, though it took patience to get a tight fit. It was actually easier in a Volvo XC, which is why I have not committed to the Pilot yet, but it did work fine in the Pilot.
I realize that you did not mean it in a derogatory manner. That said, I'm not sure that there would be a nicer word - haphazard, reckless, carefree, too optimistic??? Someone crack open a dictionary or thesaurus.
If you don't have your Pilot yet, you may want to print out this "PDI and New Model Information", bring it on the delivery day and check it one more time before you get your Pilot.
Incase, you have a sharp eye and ask, the Pilot (EX model) was orginially planed to equipt with 6 pack CD changer, that's why to check the 6 CD pack is on the PDI list for the dealer.
I have not have time to bring my Pilot in for the Creaking noise yet. It is all because not matter hoe I press hard to the manager that sold me the Pilot, he will not promise a loaner (free).
I didn't realize that my post about LATCH would inspire so many comments. Usually when I mention LATCH, people have no idea what I'm talking about. I am glad there are so many like-minded people when it comes to car seat safety. I also cringe when I see how incorrectly others install their seats.
Anyway, I have some updates for you. I bought a Britax Roundabout with LATCH yesterday at Babies R Us. I must be one of the first to get it as it is just hitting shelves. This morning, we went to the dealer and installed it in the Pilot by faking a LATCH in the center position. I brought a tape measure with me and confirmed that the inner points of the inner prongs are exactly 20" apart, so it is right at the edge of what Britax will allow. We were able to get a fairly tight fit, but the LATCH strap interfered with the seat that is supposed to fold forward to reach the back. It was really not ideal. We also tried attaching it with the seat belt in the center, but could not get a rock solid fit. We got our knees into it, etc., etc., but it too was not ideal.
Someone suggested earlier on the board that seat belts are fine and it's not such a big deal. I feel differently. The LATCH system dramaticly improves the ease of installation and, in most cases, makes a perfect fit possible in all positions. Having it on the sides but not the center encourages people who just have one child to use the sides when they might otherwise have installed the seat in the center (the safest spot!). Add up all the vehicles where this is the case, and you likely have some infant deaths and injuries attributed to this.
I am not saying Honda is awful. They are just doing what 90% of the other mfrs are doing, and it is in compliance with the law that just requires LATCH in 2 positions. It's up to us consumers to demand more if the law won't. I called Honda today and asked them what I might do to encourage them to add it to future model years. They indicated that they keep a log of all requests for their designers, and they will listen if they get even a few calls with the same request. If anyone else feels inspired to call, the number is 800 999-1009.
Is the Pilot center seat split 60/40 or less? If so, then it makes sense that the center position wouldn't be ideal for a car seat - otherwise how would you fold down the seat in order to reach the 3rd row? Is there a tether attachment for that center seating position as well?
haven't heard from you for awhile. Aside from the creaking noise, how do you like your Pilot so far in terms of power, quietness, space, ease of driving, etc.?
Ignorant itself isn't a bad word - if you're ignorant about something, it just means you're not knowledgeable about that certain something. It doesn't mean you're stupid.
I think unknowledgeable is the best replacement for ignorant, even though I personally think there was nothing wrong with ignorant to begin with.
pchiu...the honda warranty covers a free loaner for DRIVABILITY issues...bad engines, trannies, brakes, etc....not a creak or a rattle. not the manager's fault, he's actually going by the book on this one.
as far as the center seat in the middle row for latch, the center is NEVER ideal for a child seat with buckets in front...you should always put the kids behind another seat. the activity tray also makes this difficult with the folding armrest and all...even the accord's center rear seat doesnt have latch.
and yes, the center seat in the rear has latch.
to the question about 3 child seats in the middle row...you should be able to do it, but if you cant, you can always lay the '60' side of the 3rd row down and use the '40' side for your 3rd seat. this will keep a good majority of your storage space available.
I find it surprising that you could not get the Roundabout securely mounted in the middle of the Pilot's second seat. Our Roundabout (non-LATCH) is very securely fastened in the middle of our MDX's second row. And, as mentioned previously, it is absolutely rock-solid in there (so much so that I worry about it stressing the leather and foam underneath, and have a towel under the seat). I wouldn't think the Pilot would be that different.
I'm noticing lots of road and tire noise on my LX with Bridgestone Dueler All Season tires mounted!! Has anyone noticed this too and what can be done to minimize the problem?????
Wmquan - How is the center seatbelt configured in the MDX? In the Pilot, it sort of comes down from the ceiling and clicks into a little latch and then you pull it over to form the lap portion. I never really seen anything else like it. It was tight enough to pass inspection I'm sure, but not what I would describe as rock solid. If I pulled on the front of the Roundabout (the plastic part near where the recline bar is) it would slide forward and back). There was very little side-to-side motion though.
Bowke - I have to correct you on your comment that the middle seat is never the safest in cars with "buckets" (I assume you mean captain's style chairs) in the front and you should always install car seats behind another seat. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE! As long as you can get a good fit in the center, experts agree that the middle is the safest place for a couple of reasons: 1)It's furthest away from the sides in the event of a side impact, and 2) it's less likely that the child's head will impact another object (i.e. the seat in front of it) in the car as the seat lurches forward in an accident. Also, the center seat in the rear does NOT have LATCH. Perhaps you are confusing LATCH with tether anchor points, which are found in all 2nd and 3rd row positions. LATCH is found only in the 2nd row outboard positions.
The Pilot's center-2nd row seat belt arrangement is identical to the MDX's, I believe. The belt comes from the ceiling, goes through a curious latch-loop attachment, and then to the other side.
All I can say is that I have gotten the Roundabout to be rock solid. It does not move side-to-side; you hear the plastic and foam creaking but it does not move. It does not move forward-and-back either, I just hear more plastic creak when I pull or push on it. I've been able to duplicate this installation over a half-dozen times.
Silly question, but we are talking forward-facing installation, correct? I'm assuming that's what are shooting for with the LATCH install but wanted to make sure. (I was able to install the Roundabout very securely in rear-facing mode too, using belts -- however, it required Britax's top tether to be used to stabilize the seat properly.)
I believe the Odyssey and Nissan minivan have a similar arrangement. It is different, but I've found that it does not interfere with the driver's visual field, something I was surprised at but it made sense once I drove with it down.
You're probably already familiar with www.carseatdata.org. It's a non-commercial website that features a database of fitting specific models of car seats to specific vehicles. I've added entries for everything I've tried so far. Unfortunately the Pilot seems to have been introduced too recently for any Pilot-specific submissions to be in there.
I too have a non-LATCH Roundabout installed in the middle position/2nd row of my Pilot, and would concur that there is no movement, front to back or side to side. I've also always understood the middle position to be the safest, and that is where my daughter has been for the past two years. Now that we are expecting #2 in a few months, I hate having to have both kids in the outboard positions.
Okay, I believe you guys! It sounds like we didn't try hard enough to get a tight fit at the dealer. The salesman was watching our every move, and I think he may have been worried about the leather. I got the impression that some people just go on test drives w/ the baby on their lap. He seemed to think we were going to do that until we whipped out various car seats to install. Have the two of you who got such a tight fit tried pulling on the Roundabout from the front plastic bar (infront of the metal recline bar)? I seem to recall the seat sliding forward when I did that.
Yes, I am talking about installing the seat forward facing. My daughter is two. I would have been concerned about the armrest if she were still rear facing.
I just came back up from downstairs and my arm is a bit sore ;-). If I pull at the front plastic handle with one arm, I can get maybe a quarter-inch of play and then it stops firmly. If I pull with both hands I get perhaps a half-inch of play.
I think whatever movement I can get is well within the advised limits, based on the childseat class that my wife and I attended before our baby was born. I suspect that quarter-inch, perhaps half-inch, is due to the fact that I have a bath towel underneath the seat, and the smooth plastic just slips across it. Perhaps a more rubbery seat saver would grab more.
I don't know if this helps, but I did fiddle a bit with the rear seat cushion angle to try to get the seat to follow the contours of the Roundabout (based on the current recline I'm using). I will warn folks that if you make it that tight, it will create some impression on the leather and supporting foam cushioning underneath, even with a towel there. But I think it's worth it.
g8tor:
We're hoping for our second in several months, and have similar concerns. I'm going to try to put the infant in the middle and the toddler outboard, and see if that works. Some folks have reported success getting a variety of three seats across, though with some rubbing and with some access issues.
On the MDX, I found that the lip of our infant seat (on top of its base) was high enough that I had no worries about the center armrest (and I don't think it was an issue anyway). Britax is coming out with a new infant seat and a new convertible seat that both have a "stabilizer bar" to minimize seat kickback in a rear-end collision. It looks as if the bar will pin down a long armrest. Unfortunately, Britax North America seems to be taking forever (again!) to get their new products on store shelves.
I thought I saw in the instructions somewhere (either for the seat or the vehicle owner's manual), that the vehicle seat had to be in the full, upright position when installing a car seat. I wonder if the car seat will stay tight if you move the seat into the upright position. Anyway, I'm glad to know that it can be done. Thanks for checking it for me. Of course, I'd still rather have LATCH. I'm going to have to think about whether we should wait until next year. I have a feeling we'll see LATCH in that position next year.
i stand corrected on the latch thing...yes it was the tether anchors i was thinking of. my comment about the center seat that sits behind air...lol...was targeted at rear facing infant seats...the front seats would stop the possible forward momentum of the saet, and a properly secured baby wouldnt move past the top of the carrier. my fear with my son would be, not the car's restraint system, but the mechanism that allows me to remove the carrier from the base. thats what scares me, especially since most rear facing seats cannot use the tether anchors.
...but, I want to get feedback regarding how people feel about rear-facing as opposed to forward-facing child seats, i.e. at what age/weight would it be safe to place an infant from rear-facing to front-facing? Following is a statement I found about it:
A small child has a weak neck and a large head in relation to the rest of the body. This is why small children are safest travelling with their backs towards the direction of travel. In a frontal collision, the body is pressed against the backrest and the strain on the child's head and neck is minimised. International studies have shown that children up to the age of three are twice as safe in a rearward-facing child safety seat as they are facing forwards.
Age of 3? Isn't that a little too long? Also, I might be diverging completely from Pilot-specific discussion.
"... face the rear of the vehicle until ... at least 1 year of age and weigh at least 20 lb ... Infants who weigh 20 lb before 1 year of age should ride rear facing in a ... seat approved for higher weights until at least 1 year of age. If a ... seat accommodates ... rear facing to higher weights, for optimal protection ... remain rear facing until reaching the maximum weight for the ... seat, as long as the top of the head is below the top of the seat back."
The key word is "optimal." They are saying that you should keep the child rear-facing until at least 20 lbs AND 1 year. But they are also saying that if you want "optimal" protection, you can keep them rear-facing as long as they fit the weight and height restrictions of the seat (typically, for a convertible seat, 30 lbs rear-facing, though I think there are/will be ones that go to 35 lbs).
That all said, I think some kids (and parents) won't handle keeping a 2-year-old rear-facing.
I think the guidelines are up to individual interpretation. Of course I feel that going less than the 1 year-20lbs restriction is wrong, but the amount over depends on the child. Of course rear facing is safer in a frontal collision. We kept our son facing rear until he could no longer sit facing backwards (feet and legs up against the seat). It was more than 1 year and 20lbs...but less than 2 years.
Our son is fairly large, and at 10.5 months our pediatrician told us that his neck and head were sufficiently developed that we could make him forward facing. She said that the 1 year/20 thing is the general guideline as the minimum requirement, since AAP has to consider the variances of child development.
But we still kept our son rear-facing a while longer, I forgot exactly how long (but it was well short of 18 months).
It's all up to the parents. I wonder if this suggests that vehicles should have passenger seats that face rearward. ;-)
Thanks... I interpreted the same, i.e. at least 1 year and 20 lbs., but I guess it doesn't hurt to wait a little longer. Well, up until the child cannot face rear anymore, just for safety's sake.
Another factor if you live in sunny Florida is the heat. We had my daughter rear-facing past her first birthday - which was in May - but by August she was sweltering in the back of my black Volvo. In the center position, there just wasn't a way to get sufficient a/c back to her. So, despite my desire to keep her rear-facing as long as possible, we finally relented & turned her around.
Re: putting an infant in the middle position & a toddler in the outboard. In theory I think this would be the best option available, but I'm worried that my daughter will not be able to leave her new sibling alone...maybe I'll give it a whirl & see how it goes.
The New Vehicle Spotlight ad on the main edmunds.com today (this week?) is the Honda Pilot. Good pics and build your own link. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Yes, the Pilot's width should let you put a large variety of seats together based off the center position. You should be able to put a rear-facing infant seat in the center, and another seat on the 40% portion (behind the driver). Conceivably, you could also do it behind the passenger, but some of the bulkier seats could cause a problem.
But then what you're left with is what you described. My son has a habit of chucking his sippy cup when he thinks he's done with it. He'd have have to lose the habit if an infant sibling is right next to him! So you're absolutely right, I think you'd have to try it and see if the siblings get along! Perhaps she'd really baby and coo over the infant, perhaps not.
Yes it's been out for about 3 weeks or so. Several new owners have posted pics at www.honda-pilot.org It's a pretty nice looking color. Sagebrush is also out (one week after sandstone). It's nice also, although a little darker & grayer (with a hint of blue in some light) then Honda's promotional pics they put in the brochures
bowke - thanks for telling me that some of the warranty work can have free loaner. As I do not expect Honda to give out free loaner. I press the sales manager for free loaner as to test how much he treasure me as a good buyer, as I did not give him hard time when I finish the deal for the Pilot. And I notice the creaking struct noice on the delivery day when I was driving home and called him right away. He said he will TRY to get something for me. Have not heard from him since. Thanks anyway for your comment.
bodydouble - yes it is a long time I have not posted, as I'm enjoying with relatives in my Pilot for the summer.
I posted that concern before. I would say the road and tire noise on my EX (Canadian model, same tire as US)is on the high level side when the Pilot is on not too smooth highway, the kind that has a lot of joint or cracks across the entire road, or on rough surface freeway.
Only on smooth, or resurfaced freeway then the Pilot is VERY quiet.
If you read the latest Pilot test review, eg the Canadiandriver web site, the author hints that it is not that good in rough pavement. I think he is just kind enough not to make the owner of his test-Pilot so mad that he may not get the next test drive from them!!! Just kidding.
If anyone notice, someone already asked, the new EX models come with power passenger seats with height adjustment. As said in the Canadiandriver review.
The Pilot is pretty ok, other than the creaking driver front strut, a few mis-alige trim pieces, the easy to break loose rear A/C rear vents (both sides), loose passenger side window trim....no big deal, but no time to go back to dealer.
The power of the car is more than I need, I do not tow. But it drinks gas quicker than I want, more noticable when gas price is at 70 cents.
Not enough cargo space when you have 8 people and their belongs to a resort. Time to share yours friends min van truck, who goes with you.
Handling is good, in terms of the braking, steering and power combination. But not close to the same family sedan, say Accord (I'm asking too much, I know)
Still drawing a lot of attention on the raod and parking lot.
The price of Pilot is coming down, at least from car4u web site, they have $900 discount without asking. And the supply is more.
I posted that MDX maybe delayed by the production of the Pilot way back in mid-July. But someone said that it is the water pump defects that delay the MDX. They posted a TBS in MDX forum with affected VIN #. There is a stamp # '9' on the water pump itself that is defected. I think Pilot use the same water pump. The defect will eventurly torn down the timeing belt (chain ? anyone knows). So it seems to me a big concern.
matkins2- sorry did not read your post closely enough, Ex has Goodyear Integrity.
A lot of owner trade in their new Goodyear with Michelin Cross Terrain on deliverly day from big tire store, which seems to be the only same size tire that recommended by Tire Rack.
Most owners say Cross Terrain is quieter, and more like MDX (solid) feel. They (US owners)got good deals at that time like $75 @ (old stock), I think it raise to $90 now (new shippment). Supply and demand, again !
But personally I do not like the raised white letter (RWL), not sure is it easy to get the one without RWL.
Thanks John for the info., it doesn't seem any dealers ordered any for the near future in my(San Diego) area. I saw the Sagebrush and was dissappointed. Where is the green! Resembles the blue/greyish Acura had. Hope the Sandstone works for me.
Personally I think blue/grey would look better than greenish. Mind you, I haven't seen the colour in person. I thought green, or any shade thereof, is no longer an "in" colour.
I saw a sandstone Pilot today. Not gold, like the Odyssey Sandstone Metallic, I would say closer to a light brown. Maybe the lack of Metallic makes it look duller. Well, I guess sandstone is a fairly accurate description, unlike some other color descriptions.
Comments
Has anyone seen or know when the Sandstone is due or looks like. I don't have much confidence in the pictures.
Thanks.
Yes, properly securing a car seat with a belt is a safe implementation. However, even people who take extra care to put a seat in could be making simple mistakes...even yourself. When I move our car seats around, I kneel in the seat, am very meticulous about getting the belt tight, etc... I still find it difficult to get it just right. So hopefully the latch system will make it easier for everyone to do it right.
So there is a big advantage, considering statistics show that a lot of people put their seats in cars wrong. The advantage is that more children will be travelling safely. I agree with your sentiment about securing seats, but ignoring the truth is ignornant.
You're right, for folks who don't take the time to properly secure the child seats, LATCH should be an advance.
But if AHMC doesn't add/increase/change the LATCH positions, I won't be heartbroken.
Personally I think the change would get LOTS of lawyers involved and WON'T HAPPEN BECUASE OF FEARS OF LAWSUITS!
Sad but true...
many of my wife's friend's don't have their seats secured correctly and my heart freezes when I see how much the carseat actually moves.
are they bad people? nope. just ignorant. if they have a car with the latch system, at least now I can show them how easy it is to do with the latch system and a tether. maybe that will be enough to get them to do it.
I am considering buying a Pilot but need all the cargo space I can get
most realists (like me) and pessimists think otherwise and always plan for the unexpected. it can be thought of as anal by some, but hey, i'm sure my twin infants will not jettison out of the window should an accident occur.
i also cringe when i see our friends' child seat installation (in addition to the interior of their vehicles which never gets cleaned. i mean, infants and toddlers don't make a mess, right?)
I think most people just don't understand physics at a very basic level. If they did, they would try to be more careful.
FYI - I do not have any LATCH straps and it still worked, though it took patience to get a tight fit. It was actually easier in a Volvo XC, which is why I have not committed to the Pilot yet, but it did work fine in the Pilot.
Hope this helps.
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
This is posted on the other board.
If you have your Pilot and has the "Creaking or Ticking from the Dashboard or a Front Strut", go to this link, an offical Hondar Service Bulletin.
So you will wonder why don't they fix it on the production line !!!
http://www.honda-pilot.org/images/1.pdf
If you don't have your Pilot yet, you may want to print out this "PDI and New Model Information", bring it on the delivery day and check it one more time before you get your Pilot.
http://www.honda-pilot.org/images/2.pdf
Incase, you have a sharp eye and ask, the Pilot (EX model) was orginially planed to equipt with 6 pack CD changer, that's why to check the 6 CD pack is on the PDI list for the dealer.
I have not have time to bring my Pilot in for the Creaking noise yet. It is all because not matter hoe I press hard to the manager that sold me the Pilot, he will not promise a loaner (free).
Good luck to all.
Anyway, I have some updates for you. I bought a Britax Roundabout with LATCH yesterday at Babies R Us. I must be one of the first to get it as it is just hitting shelves. This morning, we went to the dealer and installed it in the Pilot by faking a LATCH in the center position. I brought a tape measure with me and confirmed that the inner points of the inner prongs are exactly 20" apart, so it is right at the edge of what Britax will allow. We were able to get a fairly tight fit, but the LATCH strap interfered with the seat that is supposed to fold forward to reach the back. It was really not ideal. We also tried attaching it with the seat belt in the center, but could not get a rock solid fit. We got our knees into it, etc., etc., but it too was not ideal.
Someone suggested earlier on the board that seat belts are fine and it's not such a big deal. I feel differently. The LATCH system dramaticly improves the ease of installation and, in most cases, makes a perfect fit possible in all positions. Having it on the sides but not the center encourages people who just have one child to use the sides when they might otherwise have installed the seat in the center (the safest spot!). Add up all the vehicles where this is the case, and you likely have some infant deaths and injuries attributed to this.
I am not saying Honda is awful. They are just doing what 90% of the other mfrs are doing, and it is in compliance with the law that just requires LATCH in 2 positions. It's up to us consumers to demand more if the law won't. I called Honda today and asked them what I might do to encourage them to add it to future model years. They indicated that they keep a log of all requests for their designers, and they will listen if they get even a few calls with the same request. If anyone else feels inspired to call, the number is 800 999-1009.
I think unknowledgeable is the best replacement for ignorant, even though I personally think there was nothing wrong with ignorant to begin with.
as far as the center seat in the middle row for latch, the center is NEVER ideal for a child seat with buckets in front...you should always put the kids behind another seat. the activity tray also makes this difficult with the folding armrest and all...even the accord's center rear seat doesnt have latch.
and yes, the center seat in the rear has latch.
to the question about 3 child seats in the middle row...you should be able to do it, but if you cant, you can always lay the '60' side of the 3rd row down and use the '40' side for your 3rd seat.
this will keep a good majority of your storage space available.
Has anyone noticed this too and what can be done to minimize the problem?????
Bowke - I have to correct you on your comment that the middle seat is never the safest in cars with "buckets" (I assume you mean captain's style chairs) in the front and you should always install car seats behind another seat. THIS IS TOTALLY FALSE! As long as you can get a good fit in the center, experts agree that the middle is the safest place for a couple of reasons: 1)It's furthest away from the sides in the event of a side impact, and 2) it's less likely that the child's head will impact another object (i.e. the seat in front of it) in the car as the seat lurches forward in an accident. Also, the center seat in the rear does NOT have LATCH. Perhaps you are confusing LATCH with tether anchor points, which are found in all 2nd and 3rd row positions. LATCH is found only in the 2nd row outboard positions.
All I can say is that I have gotten the Roundabout to be rock solid. It does not move side-to-side; you hear the plastic and foam creaking but it does not move. It does not move forward-and-back either, I just hear more plastic creak when I pull or push on it. I've been able to duplicate this installation over a half-dozen times.
Silly question, but we are talking forward-facing installation, correct? I'm assuming that's what are shooting for with the LATCH install but wanted to make sure. (I was able to install the Roundabout very securely in rear-facing mode too, using belts -- however, it required Britax's top tether to be used to stabilize the seat properly.)
I believe the Odyssey and Nissan minivan have a similar arrangement. It is different, but I've found that it does not interfere with the driver's visual field, something I was surprised at but it made sense once I drove with it down.
You're probably already familiar with www.carseatdata.org. It's a non-commercial website that features a database of fitting specific models of car seats to specific vehicles. I've added entries for everything I've tried so far. Unfortunately the Pilot seems to have been introduced too recently for any Pilot-specific submissions to be in there.
I've also always understood the middle position to be the safest, and that is where my daughter has been for the past two years. Now that we are expecting #2 in a few months, I hate having to have both kids in the outboard positions.
Yes, I am talking about installing the seat forward facing. My daughter is two. I would have been concerned about the armrest if she were still rear facing.
I just came back up from downstairs and my arm is a bit sore ;-). If I pull at the front plastic handle with one arm, I can get maybe a quarter-inch of play and then it stops firmly. If I pull with both hands I get perhaps a half-inch of play.
I think whatever movement I can get is well within the advised limits, based on the childseat class that my wife and I attended before our baby was born. I suspect that quarter-inch, perhaps half-inch, is due to the fact that I have a bath towel underneath the seat, and the smooth plastic just slips across it. Perhaps a more rubbery seat saver would grab more.
I don't know if this helps, but I did fiddle a bit with the rear seat cushion angle to try to get the seat to follow the contours of the Roundabout (based on the current recline I'm using). I will warn folks that if you make it that tight, it will create some impression on the leather and supporting foam cushioning underneath, even with a towel there. But I think it's worth it.
g8tor:
We're hoping for our second in several months, and have similar concerns. I'm going to try to put the infant in the middle and the toddler outboard, and see if that works. Some folks have reported success getting a variety of three seats across, though with some rubbing and with some access issues.
On the MDX, I found that the lip of our infant seat (on top of its base) was high enough that I had no worries about the center armrest (and I don't think it was an issue anyway). Britax is coming out with a new infant seat and a new convertible seat that both have a "stabilizer bar" to minimize seat kickback in a rear-end collision. It looks as if the bar will pin down a long armrest. Unfortunately, Britax North America seems to be taking forever (again!) to get their new products on store shelves.
my comment about the center seat that sits behind air...lol...was targeted at rear facing infant seats...the front seats would stop the possible forward momentum of the saet, and a properly secured baby wouldnt move past the top of the carrier. my fear with my son would be, not the car's restraint system, but the mechanism that allows me to remove the carrier from the base. thats what scares me, especially since most rear facing seats cannot use the tether anchors.
A small child has a weak neck and a large head in relation to the rest of the body. This is why small children are safest travelling with their backs towards the direction of travel. In a frontal collision, the body is pressed against the backrest and the strain on the child's head and neck is minimised. International studies have shown that children up to the age of three are twice as safe in a rearward-facing child safety seat as they are facing forwards.
Age of 3? Isn't that a little too long?
Also, I might be diverging completely from Pilot-specific discussion.
Here is what the American Academy of Pediatrics says:
http://www.aap.org/policy/re0116.html
"... face the rear of the vehicle until ... at least 1 year of age and weigh at least 20 lb ... Infants who weigh 20 lb before 1 year of age should ride rear facing in a ... seat approved for higher weights until at least 1 year of age. If a ... seat accommodates ... rear facing to higher weights, for optimal protection ... remain rear facing until reaching the maximum weight for the ... seat, as long as the top of the head is below the top of the seat back."
The key word is "optimal." They are saying that you should keep the child rear-facing until at least 20 lbs AND 1 year. But they are also saying that if you want "optimal" protection, you can keep them rear-facing as long as they fit the weight and height restrictions of the seat (typically, for a convertible seat, 30 lbs rear-facing, though I think there are/will be ones that go to 35 lbs).
That all said, I think some kids (and parents) won't handle keeping a 2-year-old rear-facing.
It is the parents'/guardians' decision.
Our son is fairly large, and at 10.5 months our pediatrician told us that his neck and head were sufficiently developed that we could make him forward facing. She said that the 1 year/20 thing is the general guideline as the minimum requirement, since AAP has to consider the variances of child development.
But we still kept our son rear-facing a while longer, I forgot exactly how long (but it was well short of 18 months).
It's all up to the parents. I wonder if this suggests that vehicles should have passenger seats that face rearward. ;-)
Steve
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But then what you're left with is what you described. My son has a habit of chucking his sippy cup when he thinks he's done with it. He'd have have to lose the habit if an infant sibling is right next to him! So you're absolutely right, I think you'd have to try it and see if the siblings get along! Perhaps she'd really baby and coo over the infant, perhaps not.
I press the sales manager for free loaner as to test how much he treasure me as a good buyer, as I did not give him hard time when I finish the deal for the Pilot. And I notice the creaking struct noice on the delivery day when I was driving home and called him right away. He said he will TRY to get something for me. Have not heard from him since. Thanks anyway for your comment.
bodydouble - yes it is a long time I have not posted, as I'm enjoying with relatives in my Pilot for the summer.
Only on smooth, or resurfaced freeway then the Pilot is VERY quiet.
If you read the latest Pilot test review, eg the Canadiandriver web site, the author hints that it is not that good in rough pavement. I think he is just kind enough not to make the owner of his test-Pilot so mad that he may not get the next test drive from them!!! Just kidding.
If anyone notice, someone already asked, the new EX models come with power passenger seats with height adjustment. As said in the Canadiandriver review.
Can new owners confirm that.
The power of the car is more than I need, I do not tow. But it drinks gas quicker than I want, more noticable when gas price is at 70 cents.
Not enough cargo space when you have 8 people and their belongs to a resort. Time to share yours friends min van truck, who goes with you.
Handling is good, in terms of the braking, steering and power combination. But not close to the same family sedan, say Accord (I'm asking too much, I know)
Still drawing a lot of attention on the raod and parking lot.
The price of Pilot is coming down, at least from car4u web site, they have $900 discount without asking. And the supply is more.
I posted that MDX maybe delayed by the production of the Pilot way back in mid-July. But someone said that it is the water pump defects that delay the MDX.
They posted a TBS in MDX forum with affected VIN #. There is a stamp # '9' on the water pump itself that is defected. I think Pilot use the same water pump.
The defect will eventurly torn down the timeing belt (chain ? anyone knows).
So it seems to me a big concern.
A lot of owner trade in their new Goodyear with Michelin Cross Terrain on deliverly day from big tire store, which seems to be the only same size tire that recommended by Tire Rack.
Most owners say Cross Terrain is quieter, and more like MDX (solid) feel. They (US owners)got good deals at that time like $75 @ (old stock), I think it raise to $90 now (new shippment). Supply and demand, again !
But personally I do not like the raised white letter (RWL), not sure is it easy to get the one without RWL.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I50F23F91
Michelin Cross Terrains Tirerack rating scroll down
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V4EE25F91
It appears that there is a difference between the two tires as far as road noise is concerned, although it doesn't seem to be much difference.
There is already a TSB 02-055, dated August 21, 2002.
Safety Recall: V6 Engine Water Pump.
Vehicles affected, 2002 Accord, 2002 Odyssey, 2003 Pilot.
Vin # for Pilot From 2HKYF1....3H513603 THRU 2HKYF1....3H517522
Please double check from this link
http://www.honda-pilot.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=963
Wish your Pilot is not within that affected VIN #.
According to the TSB, "Not every vehicle in the VIN ranges given is affected by this recall..."
Mind is not within range.
It is a safety recall, so be aware !!!!