I am fairly sure I will get a ION. If all goes well next year. I'm not sure which model.
Looking at the option prices is dissapointing though. Especially with fixed pricing. A automatic trans is $1,000 with tax. Other brands are hundreds less. The Mazda protege has anti lock brakes and side airbags as a $400 package option. The ION has them for $400 each.
I like the choice of adding options. Saturn is the closet brand there is to ordering a car right from the factory. I just think it would be better for buyers and saturn to cut the option prices 20% or so. I know they charge alot for auto trans because people will pay the price to not have to shift. But charging another grand for a/c is cruel. A/C should be standard.
If they cut the option prices they would proably have buyers order more options and have a higher average price per car sold because buyers would get VALUE for the higher price they would be willing to pay.
A CD player shouldn't cost $300. especially since you don't get better speakers unless you spend $500 for the cd/cassette unit. Then it's a few hundred more for the advanced audio. We have the advanced audio in our L. It's ok but in our L300 was only $200 more. To get it in a ION 2 it is over $500. I don't think they will sell that many.
The fixed pricing hurts the already over priced options. Saturn really needs to cut them back.
Didn't you just get a Cavalier for commuting? Just wondering. I was going to say if you did, you are gonna lose your shirt in the trade. That happend to me in 99 when I traded my 96 Cavalier with 41K on it for a 99 Protege.
I just purchased or rather ended up leasing the Ion Sedan Package #3.
There isn't 0% financing available on new 2003 Saturns where I am located. Dealership did offer me 4.9% but for the first time I decided to lease a car rather than buy. It will be 8-10 weeks however before I get the car - has to come from the factory in TN.
The dealership where I live in Southern Ontario has sold several, even prior to getting a show room model. They only just received the show room model - Sedan package #3 and a test drive vehicle last week. I took it out for a spin. The car handled great, was much quieter than my current SC2 Saturn, had a little faster acceleration and very different look. The little steering wheel was weird at first but after a few minutes - it's effortless to drive and you can turn on a dime - fantastic to park.
I've been a Saturn owner for many years - this will be my 3rd. I can't wait to pick up the car.
Southern Ontario winters aren't much different than those in the North Eastern US and Chicago land areas. In fact last year we only got one snow storm that I could use my snow blower for. Very disappointing.
;-)
stevewarner : Congrats on the new ION. Let us know when you get it.
You guys are just far enough north than us here in Chicago that you lament when Winter is not as cold as usual. Here we always complain that Winter is not unseasonably warm.
Saturn of Chicago is starting to get some IONs in. What is surprising is how much higher the ION is than the S series it replaces.
Actually I was disappointed that I couldn't use my new snow blower. I hate winter and was most pleased that it was mild. They are calling for a mild winter this year also, but given the cold fall, I think it may be a cold winter.
Ok Pat we understand! But I have a questions, are we allowed to post email addresses here if we can't say where we are from? Just curious... almost seems like the same thing. Anyhoo... we just had our first winter storm where I live and my ION3 handles beautifully in the snow. I have the ABS w/ trac control, and it does seem to make a big difference compared to my previous Saturn SL2, which did not have ABS. With the 16" tires, it really makes a difference, not to mention the steering makes it easier to turn too. Gotta love it!
ABS and traction control are a big help on any wet or snowy surface. I would never buy a car with out (unless I lived in the desert) and I always tell people to cough up the extra money for it as even if it saves you butt once, it's worth it.
Everyone has the option of making his or her email address public or leaving it private -- I believe that the default is private, but this can be changed by accessing the "My Profile" link on the left side of the page (you must be logged in, of course).
I built an ION-2 equipped like my Alero and it came out to be about $400 less than what I paid and would have had power windows which I don't have. Having sat in one in the mall yesterday I would say space wise it's about the same inside. I really thought the interior was well done and materials used were good. I think if I was shopping today ION would have been a contender.
Where has the Ion discussion group gone? I was away for 5 days and come back to nothing here. Anyone else buy yet? Any other news?
I tested an Ion again on the weekend while visiting my parents. Still liking the car a lot but my wife is pushing for the "blue" Corolla. The cold weather is making me think we should get something soon.
I heard the TV ads would start in january for the masses... Saturn sales are up 17% this month btw compared to last year, and they expect total Saturn sales to be up 10% for 2002 compared to 2001 due to strong VUE sales.
What does anyone think about the recent negative press on the ION? Specifically, I'm referring to the blurb in Motor Trend in their Car of the Year comparison, and the full road test in the Jan 03 of Car and Driver, in which they declare "we waited 7 years for this?". From the ad campaign, I was highly interested in this car- but seeing all the comentary on the cheap feel, feeble engine (10.2 seconds to 60 with the auto- does this thing really have 140 hp?), marginal economy, I think it will be off the list when the time comes in March. Can the owners out there disprove the aforementioned attributes? -alpha
alpha : ION has been getting really good reviews in many other magazines so I'm not sure why Motor Trend is bashing it. Having seen the car my self I can honestly say the car is not cheap inside or out. As for the engine, we have an Ecotec in our Alero and it's very peppy (and that's a bigger car).
In all seriousness, I'd like to read them- where can I find one? C/D Jan 03 was VERY negative, so was Motor Trend. Is there a USA Today report or edmunds.com report that I am missing?
The Edmunds review review link on the left column will lead you to a decent review. Toronto Star and the National Post up here were quite positive on ION.
That all said my friend..
Better to try yourself than read other's reviews for only you know what you like.
After testing a Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Ion and Protege, we have narrowed our choice down to an Ion or a Corolla. I like the Ion better (more power and bigger trunk), my wife like the Corolla better (looks and color).
I think the Ion is an excellent car and a great value. I'm kind of hoping and holding out for some better incentives on either of these to push us one way or another.
I purchased a Ion 2 with power and travel packages three weeks ago. I am very happy with the Ion 2 especially with the 5 speed automatic and smooth ride. The cruise control with the automatic is great with hills unlike precious cars I have had in the past. The auto-dimming rear view mirror is great on the travel package. Overall very good value.
jennifer lopez has a big rump, but its styled really nice.
the 2004 Maxima and Altima have big butts but are not AS nice.
The Ions may not be as big, but still as frumpy.
The Ion's butt is a cross between the Aurora, Neon, and 2004 Maxima.
I still don't like the Ion's butt but its less offensive to me than I originally thought. The thing that offends me still are the ugly dash and center gauges, and interior styling reminiscent of what the interior of a 'premium golf cart' might look like.
I saw the Ion at the auto show. I can't testify as to its driving dynamics, but the car is junk. The trunk, when open, moved from side-to-side on its hinges. The composite panels (used for the vertical surfaces) felt insubstantial. The interior door panels had flash-molding residue on their edges, the seats were too small and lacked padding, the steering wheel was too almost toy-like. The whole car shuddered when I squirmed in the driver's seat. The Ion didn't feel like a real car, it felt like a plastic model of a real car..........on the plus side, it comes with a powerful engine and great trannies.
I don't understand that as I have the same engine in our Alero and it's very peppy. I wonder if the 5-speed auto slows the acceleration down?
They had a review in a Canadian magazine I was reading yesterday and they commented on how peppy the car is. No 0-60 times given however. Something strange going on as 140 HP should kick a** on 0-60s with the ION.
Wow. What a terrible review. Besides the chassis and the platform on which it is built they did not have very many good things to say about it. Not a good thing for a new car to get such a bad review. Styling is a subjective thing and they did not like it, I think it looks pretty good. I wonder why they didn't test a ION with a manual? Maybe they would have liked it better. the automatic that I drove felt faster than a 10 sec. car and I thought the transmission had a very nice feel to it. The center stack is a little different and there will be some that don't care for it. The one thing that I definitely agree with is the steering wheel - awful, what the heck were the designers thinking??? I have seen quit a few articles in which the reviewer blasts the go-cart size wheel, hopefully Saturn will realize this needs to be corrected and fix this immediately. Saturn was hoping to have the ION appeal more to the tuner crowd (especially with the quad-coupe and the performance coupe)but I can not see that crowd liking the steering wheel or feel from the electric steering at all.
Forgive me if this is a long response, but I have been researching many sites for info on cars under $20K and I can tell you some places that will shed some light on the performance issue.
First off, if you go to MSN Autos and read Daniel Heraud's reviews, under specs & stats, he gives 0-60 and handling numbers for all trans and engines available for a model (Please note he hasn't reviewed all cars and some of his reviews are for 2002s).
If I remember correctly, the Grand Am is using the same Ecotec 2.2 140hp engine. Heraud's review for the 2003 Grand Am shows 0-60 for an automatic is 10.0 seconds and the manaul at 8.5 seconds.
If you go to Yahoo Autos and choose a car like, say, the Pontiac Vibe--which is has the same engine as the Toyota Matrix--then go to the Performance Data link listed at the bottom, it will take you to Autosite.com. Here they have a plain list of reviews from various car magazines. Car and Driver (C&R) test the Vibe with manual at 8.5 seconds. In fact, 8.5 seconds seems to be VERY common in most of the cars under $20K unless you get the top-of-the-line engine. Anything under 8.5 seems to be the only time a reviewer is impressed.
Now, I have read the Protege and the Matrx/Vibe are "fun to drive", so why would the ION be any different (unless we are talking handling or the top engine).
In short, yes, the automatic trans is slower by quite a bit over a manual and I don't know if the CVT in the Ion makes it even slower than usual. Overall, the Ion should have good "pep" and be fun to drive for the money, but expect a sports car.
BTW, the Consumer Reports (CR) for the Vibe says 0-60 in 11.2 seconds--this has to be the AWD which isn't as fast (compare the number to the Matrix AWD numbers) or CR has old ladies testing their cars.
CRs's 0-60 numbers always seem slower than the magazines' does, for some reason. I test drove a Matrix FWD with automatic, and thought it to be slow. I worked the engine pretty hard, and it didn't seem to be going as fast as I thought it would, considering the noise from it.
I drove an ION at the test-drive comparison they had, which included a Civic LX, a Corolla LE, a Jetta 2.0 GL, and the ION (all automatics). The ION felt a little slow initially, but fine once the engine speed got up a little bit. I also hated the steering feel (too light), but one could get used to that.
I've tested 2 Ion-2s with automatics and they have been plenty peppy, certainly much better than our current Civic. Like someone said earlier, these cars aren't sports cars. I think a turbo model is coming soon if you have the need for speed.
I heard Saturn is now giving cash back on L-series. Any news on the Ions? Any new incentives?
The Saturn L-series has been a sales disappointment for Saturn. I drove one briefly--I enjoyed it. But it clearly was not equal to an Accord/Camry. It also seemed smaller and less substantial. It'd be a great car for $16k. But it's not--it's $19k. Little wonder they're offering incentives.........don't expect incentives on the new Ion for at least 6 mos. or so, if at all. For a carmaker to offer incentives on a new model is tantamount to an admission of failure.
I agree, the L is a little pricey. Our Alero had more features and cost less for about the same size car. We looked at the L. but it just wasn't a great value. The incentives will make it much more attractive.
If there are no incentives coming on the Ion any time soon, I guess we will have to do one more test and make a decision. We have enough to pay for 1/2 of the car, so the loan will not be very big. Are the people that have Ion's generally still pleased with their cars?
"It'd be a great car for $16k. But it's not--it's $19k. Little wonder they're offering incentives"
Agreed. I've said OVER and OVER many times on these message boards that the L, while being a decent car, is certainly NOT class leading and was overpriced. Its about time. Trying to uphold some mythical inflated value of the whole saturn line in the midst of superior choices and a tight market.......haha, the sky came falling down.
So funny that FINALLY GM is smelling the coffee and realizing that even saturns need price adjustments to bring their actual sell price down to "True Market Value".
I had darn near bought one when they had the L100 special edition for 17495 but I even thought that was too expensive but yes, about 16k sounds right. At 16k its a really nice car, a super alternative to upsize over a smaller import compact. At 20k its a downright joke.
The really odd thing is, does Saturn know they could sell 250,000 Lseries if they promoted them with a decent ad campaign and priced them around 16-17k very well equipped? The size of the Lseries is perfect for urban commuters who want something a step up from a compact but so large as say, an Impala.
You are right, L-series is a great urban mid size car. There is almost no advertising for it, though I have seen a couple of ads for the wagon recently on TV. The car could sell better with a lower price an urban theme billboard campaign.
I'm not surprised Saturn is doing well. The Ion and Vue are both top notch vehicles and even the L is a better car than it gets credit for. Interesting that the Vue outsold the CR-V last month. Wonder how Ion sales are going?
But I have succesfully argued time and time again that the L series IS a worthy competitor. The auto critics constants say things like "The surprise of the bunch was the Saturn". "We couldn't believe this was a Saturn"
An L200 is 19k. After 2500 dollar rebate it costs 16.5
So it looks like you have your 16K car after all...
Car and driver did a review. They truly hated the styling. That of course is a completely subjective issue. In other non subjective areas the ION did much better.
They had recently done a 10 car compact "round up" and the Focus was the best in handling, the Protege was best in braking.
The ION both scored higher in their skid pad testing even WITH a twist beam axle and also stopped shorter by 12 feet in the 70-0 test.
I'm going to have a field day with those numbers.
Oh yes and rumor has it the ION "tuner coupe" will be getting the 2.0 turbo ECOTEC now used in the Saab and the suspension will be tuned in Nurenberg Germany much like the CTS was...
I think what everyone is forgetting is that you cannot compare apples with oranges--remember what cars are being compared against the Ion--and compared to Saturn for that matter.
As for the way it handles--I have a manual transmission that was incredible in the snow storm that we had two days ago. Not to mention the full body feel, and the steady firm handling that it has. I know that when I get into my Ion3, there is no rocking of the car. It must have been a pre-production vehicle that was being shown.
And as for bodystyle--only each person can decide. Don't let someone else say what looks good and doesn't. At my facility, we have people stopping in each day telling us how they love the new bodystyle. I know I love mine. It handles much better than the S-series ever did, I will say that. People that put down the vehicle before they even get a chance to drive should give it a second chance and make the effort to actually take on out on the road. Don't always go by what is written in a magazine. I find it amazing that for all of the bad reviews that cars have gotten, how many of those vehicles are out on the road today. And don't forget those vehicles that did get good reviews (FOCUS) and are now having recalls every month due to engine fires, etc.
The Ion is a great buy for the price, and you must remember that there is a reason that people keep coming back--they are treated well and taken care of when something is needed. That would be why Saturn is #1 in both sales and service satisfaction with JD Powers.
There really aren't too many cars that get "bad" reviews, simply because 95% of cars are designed to a general standard of performance and reliability. But, when a car like the Ion comes along as a (long overdue) replacement for a model that was crummy to begin with, you've got to expect a fair amount of disappointment and puzzlement over the engineering and styling decisions.
Different can be fun and unique, or different can be bad, cheap and ugly. Bolting a turbo onto the Ecotec won't solve the design or material-quality probelms. A fast pig is still a pig.
I've often wondered: have Saturn fans ever driven the competition? There's a reason why Saturn still has yet to return Dollar One in profit on GM's investment, and it has nothing to do with high CSI numbers.
RIP, Oldsmobile. I guess Bob Lutz was too late to the party to fix Olds and re-work the Ion.
The only odd thing about the Ion is the center mount IP. Otherwise the car is very good in every respect. Perhaps it's not the most stylish small car, but it's far from a "pig". We very much like it and we have tested all of it's major competitors.
The center IP is not much different than having a a PC off to one side of your desk. Small head or eye movement and you are looking right at it.
You are a bit harsh on the car and I suspect you have not even taken a test drive. Maybe you should before you judge.
Comments
Looking at the option prices is dissapointing though. Especially with fixed pricing. A automatic trans is $1,000 with tax. Other brands are hundreds less. The Mazda protege has anti lock brakes and side airbags as a $400 package option. The ION has them for $400 each.
I like the choice of adding options. Saturn is the closet brand there is to ordering a car right from the factory. I just think it would be better for buyers and saturn to cut the option prices 20% or so. I know they charge alot for auto trans because people will pay the price to not have to shift. But charging another grand for a/c is cruel. A/C should be standard.
If they cut the option prices they would proably have buyers order more options and have a higher average price per car sold because buyers would get VALUE for the higher price they would be willing to pay.
A CD player shouldn't cost $300. especially since you don't get better speakers unless you spend $500 for the cd/cassette unit. Then it's a few hundred more for the advanced audio. We have the advanced audio in our L. It's ok but in our L300 was only $200 more. To get it in a ION 2 it is over $500. I don't think they will sell that many.
The fixed pricing hurts the already over priced options. Saturn really needs to cut them back.
There isn't 0% financing available on new 2003 Saturns where I am located. Dealership did offer me 4.9% but for the first time I decided to lease a car rather than buy. It will be 8-10 weeks however before I get the car - has to come from the factory in TN.
The dealership where I live in Southern Ontario has sold several, even prior to getting a show room model. They only just received the show room model - Sedan package #3 and a test drive vehicle last week. I took it out for a spin. The car handled great, was much quieter than my current SC2 Saturn, had a little faster acceleration and very different look. The little steering wheel was weird at first but after a few minutes - it's effortless to drive and you can turn on a dime - fantastic to park.
I've been a Saturn owner for many years - this will be my 3rd. I can't wait to pick up the car.
I am especially interested to hear how well the ION drives in those Canadian winters.
;-)
stevewarner : Congrats on the new ION. Let us know when you get it.
Saturn of Chicago is starting to get some IONs in. What is surprising is how much higher the ION is than the S series it replaces.
Still haven't seen an ion on the road. I suspect since the marketing hasn't started the masses still don't know about the car.
It's the only option we got and I will order it on our upcoming Ion or Corolla.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
:-)
http://www.saturncanada.com
I built an ION-2 equipped like my Alero and it came out to be about $400 less than what I paid and would have had power windows which I don't have. Having sat in one in the mall yesterday I would say space wise it's about the same inside. I really thought the interior was well done and materials used were good. I think if I was shopping today ION would have been a contender.
I tested an Ion again on the weekend while visiting my parents. Still liking the car a lot but my wife is pushing for the "blue" Corolla. The cold weather is making me think we should get something soon.
The local dealer seems to have lots of stock now.
Can the owners out there disprove the aforementioned attributes?
-alpha
alpha : ION has been getting really good reviews in many other magazines so I'm not sure why Motor Trend is bashing it. Having seen the car my self I can honestly say the car is not cheap inside or out. As for the engine, we have an Ecotec in our Alero and it's very peppy (and that's a bigger car).
~alpha01
That all said my friend..
Better to try yourself than read other's reviews for only you know what you like.
I think the Ion is an excellent car and a great value. I'm kind of hoping and holding out for some better incentives on either of these to push us one way or another.
Take one for a test and see for yourself.
three weeks ago. I am very happy with the Ion 2 especially with the 5 speed automatic and smooth ride. The cruise control with the automatic is great with hills unlike precious cars I have had in the past. The auto-dimming rear view mirror is great on the travel package. Overall very good value.
the 2004 Maxima and Altima have big butts but are not AS nice.
The Ions may not be as big, but still as frumpy.
The Ion's butt is a cross between the Aurora, Neon, and 2004 Maxima.
I still don't like the Ion's butt but its less offensive to me than I originally thought. The thing that offends me still are the ugly dash and center gauges, and interior styling reminiscent of what the interior of a 'premium golf cart' might look like.
The IONs I have seen have felt solid and none of the reviews I have read make any mention of the complaints you have.
They had a review in a Canadian magazine I was reading yesterday and they commented on how peppy the car is. No 0-60 times given however. Something strange going on as 140 HP should kick a** on 0-60s with the ION.
First off, if you go to MSN Autos and read Daniel Heraud's reviews, under specs & stats, he gives 0-60 and handling numbers for all trans and engines available for a model (Please note he hasn't reviewed all cars and some of his reviews are for 2002s).
If I remember correctly, the Grand Am is using the same Ecotec 2.2 140hp engine. Heraud's review for the 2003 Grand Am shows 0-60 for an automatic is 10.0 seconds and the manaul at 8.5 seconds.
If you go to Yahoo Autos and choose a car like, say, the Pontiac Vibe--which is has the same engine as the Toyota Matrix--then go to the Performance Data link listed at the bottom, it will take you to Autosite.com. Here they have a plain list of reviews from various car magazines. Car and Driver (C&R) test the Vibe with manual at 8.5 seconds. In fact, 8.5 seconds seems to be VERY common in most of the cars under $20K unless you get the top-of-the-line engine. Anything under 8.5 seems to be the only time a reviewer is impressed.
Now, I have read the Protege and the Matrx/Vibe are "fun to drive", so why would the ION be any different (unless we are talking handling or the top engine).
In short, yes, the automatic trans is slower by quite a bit over a manual and I don't know if the CVT in the Ion makes it even slower than usual. Overall, the Ion should have good "pep" and be fun to drive for the money, but expect a sports car.
BTW, the Consumer Reports (CR) for the Vibe says 0-60 in 11.2 seconds--this has to be the AWD which isn't as fast (compare the number to the Matrix AWD numbers) or CR has old ladies testing their cars.
I drove an ION at the test-drive comparison they had, which included a Civic LX, a Corolla LE, a Jetta 2.0 GL, and the ION (all automatics). The ION felt a little slow initially, but fine once the engine speed got up a little bit. I also hated the steering feel (too light), but one could get used to that.
I heard Saturn is now giving cash back on L-series. Any news on the Ions? Any new incentives?
Agreed. I've said OVER and OVER many times on these message boards that the L, while being a decent car, is certainly NOT class leading and was overpriced. Its about time. Trying to uphold some mythical inflated value of the whole saturn line in the midst of superior choices and a tight market.......haha, the sky came falling down.
So funny that FINALLY GM is smelling the coffee and realizing that even saturns need price adjustments to bring their actual sell price down to "True Market Value".
I had darn near bought one when they had the L100 special edition for 17495 but I even thought that was too expensive but yes, about 16k sounds right. At 16k its a really nice car, a super alternative to upsize over a smaller import compact. At 20k its a downright joke.
The really odd thing is, does Saturn know they could sell 250,000 Lseries if they promoted them with a decent ad campaign and priced them around 16-17k very well equipped? The size of the Lseries is perfect for urban commuters who want something a step up from a compact but so large as say, an Impala.
An L200 is 19k. After 2500 dollar rebate it costs 16.5
So it looks like you have your 16K car after all...
They had recently done a 10 car compact "round up" and the Focus was the best in handling, the Protege was best in braking.
The ION both scored higher in their skid pad testing even WITH a twist beam axle and also stopped shorter by 12 feet in the 70-0 test.
I'm going to have a field day with those numbers.
Oh yes and rumor has it the ION "tuner coupe" will be getting the 2.0 turbo ECOTEC now used in the Saab and the suspension will be tuned in Nurenberg Germany much like the CTS was...
Oh my....
This jives with my theory that my L200 feels a wee bit quicker although it weighs more.
When will someone test the manual???
As for the way it handles--I have a manual transmission that was incredible in the snow storm that we had two days ago. Not to mention the full body feel, and the steady firm handling that it has. I know that when I get into my Ion3, there is no rocking of the car. It must have been a pre-production vehicle that was being shown.
And as for bodystyle--only each person can decide. Don't let someone else say what looks good and doesn't. At my facility, we have people stopping in each day telling us how they love the new bodystyle. I know I love mine. It handles much better than the S-series ever did, I will say that. People that put down the vehicle before they even get a chance to drive should give it a second chance and make the effort to actually take on out on the road. Don't always go by what is written in a magazine. I find it amazing that for all of the bad reviews that cars have gotten, how many of those vehicles are out on the road today. And don't forget those vehicles that did get good reviews (FOCUS) and are now having recalls every month due to engine fires, etc.
The Ion is a great buy for the price, and you must remember that there is a reason that people keep coming back--they are treated well and taken care of when something is needed. That would be why Saturn is #1 in both sales and service satisfaction with JD Powers.
Different can be fun and unique, or different can be bad, cheap and ugly. Bolting a turbo onto the Ecotec won't solve the design or material-quality probelms. A fast pig is still a pig.
I've often wondered: have Saturn fans ever driven the competition? There's a reason why Saturn still has yet to return Dollar One in profit on GM's investment, and it has nothing to do with high CSI numbers.
RIP, Oldsmobile. I guess Bob Lutz was too late to the party to fix Olds and re-work the Ion.
The center IP is not much different than having a a PC off to one side of your desk. Small head or eye movement and you are looking right at it.
You are a bit harsh on the car and I suspect you have not even taken a test drive. Maybe you should before you judge.