Who's taking the credit for styling this? There are better built and better looking choices out there. At this point it'll be easy to find a glowing review, as the car is new and most reviews are not going to put GM's ad dollars at risk. Don't believe me?? Go back and read the Pontiac Fiero Reviews circa 1984. Chances are very good this will be yet another ill fated, half baked attempt to build a moderate priced two seater. Just look at GM's proud past in small low priced cars:Vega,Corvair,Chevette,Fiero, all home runs right? Beware , nothing predicts the future better than the past. You may not like hearing the truth, but when your surrounded by black clouds, you better take a rain coat with you. Bill C.
An oil leaking quality plagued with a body style copied from the 944 that is a collector in no one's book.
The Fiero, believe it or not, has an active fan base some 20 years later.
Bottom line here is that the Solstice is built on a real sports car platform, has an excellent, torquey power plant, has near 52/48 front rear balance, and has a manual made by the same people who make the Mazda MX-5.
But positive press apparently has to be secured by a bribe.
All I was pointing out was that Mazda was making a sporty car (RX-7) which was generally recognized by the press and the general public as a success in 1984. This was not the case of the Fiero in 1984 (though by 1986 GM had finally made the Fiero a true enthusists machine.....only to kill it.)
"The Fiero, believe it or not, has an active fan base some 20 years later. "
So does the RX-7. So does the Pacer. Whether or not a car has a 'fan base' says less about the car and more about those who are fans of the car (IMO).
All of this is COMPLETELY besides the point. The history of the Fiero has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the Solstice will be successful from either a sales point, profit point, or sportscar point.
"Bottom line here is that the Solstice is built on a real sports car platform, has an excellent, torquey power plant, has near 52/48 front rear balance, and has a manual made by the same people who make the Mazda MX-5."
Yes. Absolutely, and I can't wait for the slew of inevitable back-to-back comparisons between these two cars.
"But positive press apparently has to be secured by a bribe."
Please don't lump me in with this kind of statement. I'm trying to withold judgement until I see in-depth tests of production vehicles rather than preliminary 'first drive' impressions of pre-production units.
thanks for info! A very promising car for fun driving!
Meanwhile, until the Sky actually __gets__ here, it'll be interesting to see how crazy the Solstice feeding frenzy gets; Noted a Solstice is __already__ being auctioned on Ebay !!
P.P.P.S. Just for a little happy side note - GM conducted 2 surveys for the Solstice. 1. They removed all GM and Pontiac badging, and asked a panel to guess what car company is making the car. The most popular answer was Porsche, with Ferrari and other highly regarded European manufacturers rounding out most of the other answers. Not one panelist guessed it was actually a Pontiac
This brings up an interesting point (to me, at least). Many compare the Solstice to the 50s/60s Lotus and other British Roadsters.
When I look at the Solstice, I think more of the Italian Roadsters of the same era.
The Sky is more of a British and German looking car.
Any word on whether Pontiac will come up with some different interior color options? I really like the concept light blue with dark blue trim.
Too bad they built a drop top car without a roll bar. I would wait for the hardtop version to come out, then add a couple of years to get the bugs out and the price to drop before buying the car. Yeah, I know, it really is fun to have something new. First year cars can have strange quirks, yet I do understand the thrill of having the really NEW cool car. Have fun if ya buy one, and see if a roll bar can be added.
And speaking of reading, I wonder when the Edmunds' Solstice review gets released. A couple of reviews are out there already. Maybe GM has them holding until September 1?
Just got all my car mags in the mail, and all of them drove the Solstice this month. They all liked it enough, but the MX-5 is better (albeit slightly more expensive) and will doubtlessly be WAY more reliable and have much higher resale. So if you're sold on the looks, the Solstice will be a fun (but impractical fiscally) choice. Otherwise, sounds like the Mazda is the better choice. Which is what everyone has been saying all along.
Now I only read the C&D and this is what they actually came up with: Exterior:Solstice wins Interior:MX5 wins Top operation:Mx5 (have to get out of the car w/Solstice) Practicality:MX5 due to trunk size Ride:Solstice Handling:Solstice Structure:Solstice Primary Controls:Draw Engine:Draw Overall Verdict:Solstice wins
So Solstice wins or draws in every category except trunk space, having to get out of the car to put the roof up and interior fit and finish which was still close. Every other category that Solstice won was what really counts on a roadster-Exterior Styling, Ride, Handling and structure.
Also measured were Acceleration, braking and roadholding and they were close enough that C&D did not hardly comment about the differences. Now the above comes right out of the magazine.
Sounds like both cars are great cars and competition will be great to follow between them. Let the car sales begin!!!!
Reliability is yet to be seen but since Mazda quality is basically tied for last place with Suzuki for initial quality (JD Power). I forsee Mazda having to prove itself.
Resale will have to wait a few years since Solstice is sold out and few will be on the used market for awhile.
from a purely economic perspective (as if ANYthing is purely economic), ALL new car purchases are a bad idea. I'm not sure there is any GOOD economic argument to buying a new car versus a used car.
If you are making economic arguments about which new car to buy, then you really should be buying a used car.
The maximum difference between a similarly-equipped Solstice and an Mx-5 is 10K (assuming reliability differences, resale differences, etc.). If 10K is gonna bug you, then you should be buying used.
(it's more likely that the diff. b/t the MX-5 and the Solstice is less than 10K, maybe just 5K. At that level, you shjould certainly just buy the one that gives YOU the most grins.)
All this hostility between the Miata crowd and the Solstice crowd!
I've periodically checked these boards, as the Solstice is one of the most highly anticipated cars to hit the market in awhile. I'm not in the market for one (or for a Miata for that matter either; I've got my heart set on a Mini Cooper S, whose 2002 release in many ways reminds me of the Solstice), so a few unbiased observations:
The Miata is somewhat blah (as is the Honda S2000) from a styling perspective, as is the S2000. The Solstice is a jaw dropper from a styling standpoing (The Sky, however, is another matter, and looks cheap in comparison to the Solstice IMHO). That being said, the Fiero comparison is somewhat unfair (Some would say the RX-7, with the rotary engines, were no treat either, as you pretty much had to put in another quart of oil at every stoplight), but not totally off the mark--the Fiero generated a large amount of buzz with it's styling, but it's reliability was anything but stellar. Then again, it's performance doesn't match the Solstice's either.
Would I buy a Solstice, first year out? No way. Do I want it to do well? Absolutely. This car knocks my socks off in looks; from everything I've read, it rides very nice for a roadster (It may not have the performance of the S2000, but I wouldn't want the S2000 tradeoff in ride quality), and when it's available in a hardtop, and when (if) all the inevitble bugs of a new launch are worked out, I might just get one of these. I like the Miata too, but I'd never buy one--it just doesn't do it for me from a styling standpoint, although I can see why others like it.
As for Solstice saving Pontiac, c'mon, this is a niche market...It will be better for Pontiac, and Solstice owners, to keep it a novelty, and keep numbers reasonable rather than mass producing it--it will give Pontiac a notch in it's belt to have a desirable, hard to get car. Too bad Saturn is making the Sky.
IMHO, I see two issues on the board: A mild to moderate amount of jealousy from Miata owners over the buzz the Solstice has generated, and a reflex attempt to bash it at every opportunity; on the other hand, the Solstice owners tend to see the car through rose colored glasses at the moment--there will be problems with this car, no doubts in my mind on this--I just hope Pontiac responds to them appropriately, and gets all the major bugs worked out within a year or two.
Who's taking the credit for styling this? There are better built and better looking choices out there. At this point it'll be easy to find a glowing review, as the car is new and most reviews are not going to put GM's ad dollars at risk. Don't believe me?? Go back and read the Pontiac Fiero Reviews circa 1984. Chances are very good this will be yet another ill fated, half baked attempt to build a moderate priced two seater. Just look at GM's proud past in small low priced cars:Vega,Corvair,Chevette,Fiero, all home runs right? Beware , nothing predicts the future better than the past. You may not like hearing the truth, but when your surrounded by black clouds, you better take a rain coat with you. Bill C.
The guy who styled the Pontiac Solstice now works for Mazda. Bob Lutz was one of the people behind the Solstice.
The Mazda MX-5/Miata is the ONLY roadster under $25,000 for the 2006 model year.
If the Solstice is indeed half-baked Pontiac, then it will probably show up on the RACE TRACK. As I have said before, the Pontiac Solstice will be raced in Grand-Am Cup. Grand-Am Cup is arguably the most competive AND the most production-based sports car racing in North America. The series is only gaining teams and drivers.
I like the lines of the 2002 Solstice Coupe concept a lot. Plus, it would have more cargo room, a more rigid chassis, and better aerodynamics (like the new 2006 Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe) than the current Roadster if it were built.
I like the Solstice a lot but the trunk (or lack there of) was a bit of a surprise.
If I was to buy one, it would be a summer around town kind of car but it would be nice if you could at least get a couple of bags of groceries into the trunk with the top down. Still, it's looks alone would sell me. I just love the thing.
I do have one on order...and yes..the trunk is probably the least useable of any of the true two seat roadsters.....but Im not planning on racing, autocrossing or otherwise competing my car...I like the looks..the styling, the comfort when sitting in it....and the over all price...though mine is ordered fully loaded with most all the options and tops out at 25K....it will be a second car and not the prime mover...but just two of us...so will be the weekend cruiser and can handle an overnight bag..(wink) and the wifes primary get around town car.....waiting patiently for it now.....
Do you think there will be aftermarket solutions? the old vettes could get luggage racks. A newer solution is a soft bag that straps onto the trunk lid?
I tried the Solstice and it drove okay. The Interior looked cheap. The sound system did not sound that impressive, but I would still till buy it due to price. The vehicle retailed for about $27,000 with options I was seeking. I noticed that an additional sticker stating that vehicle was being sold for $1,000.00 above MSRP. I stated that I would not pay above sticker and that this transaction would be a cash deal.The salesman stated he had to speak to his manager. The manger returned and stated that he would not bargain. I told him the car is still new and there may be problems, because GM does not have the best track record with new small cars. The manger then stated he would reduce the price by $50.00. I started laughing and stated this not a Porsche. I began to walk out of the dealership and the manager stated he would drop another $10.00. I simply stated no thanks there are better built and more reliable vehicles being offered. What a joke asking the public to pay $1,000 over sticker for car that is still untested. :P
They markups will go away later, but you have to expect this sort of thing when the car is so new and the supply is low. It's so new I have yet to see any on the road. And I thought they were supposed to be all sold out from pre-orders for this model year anyway.
" Reliability is yet to be seen but since Mazda quality is basically tied for last place with Suzuki for initial quality (JD Power). I forsee Mazda having to prove itself. "
------end quote-------
In the last 15 years, show me one year in which the Miata MX-5 had poor quality. The Miata is darn near bullet proof. You can pound the heck out of it on the back roads and it never complains. It just keeps ticking along like a Timex watch
I don't see MX-5 as worth $24K, and certainly would not pay $27K for a Solstice. These are nice cars for sporting on the weekends, or whatever, but my goodness, nothing worth that sort of money. Just get a Mustang GT for $25K, which is also over priced, or a used Corvette. More room inside for adult sized people, and better as an everyday drive car. -Loren
Assuming the transaction actually took place as reported, you must be adding tax and destination charges. Even if you add all the options (some of which are redundant) in the Edmunds new car section, the most a Solsitce will go for is 26,6.
Charging over MSRP is not a joke when you have GM making 7k cars this year and Pontiac dealers with over 13k confirmed orders.
What better built more reliable Roadsters for the money are you talking about, pray tell?
The Miata is darn near bullet proof. You can pound the heck out of it on the back roads and it never complains. It just keeps ticking along like a Timex watch .
I found the interior components in mine somewhat chintzy. The latches for the middle component storage area and the glove box broke. The panel cover under the steering wheel kept falling off. The seat tracks were not all that solid either.
"...and Pontiac dealers with over 13k confirmed orders."
Then why was there a car sitting around the showroom for sale? Wouldn't that car already have a buyer?
The 13k are orders from the DEALERS for the car. That isn't the same as saying that 13k people have deposits down with a dealer for the car. The dealers are anticipating it will be a hot seller, so they're simply trying to get as many as they can to sell, knowing that (at least initially) demand will outstrip supply.
In order to get one of the first ones, the dealer had to have a customer name and deposit for the order to process. Somebody may have changed their mind after they ordered it, or maybe the sales manager put his name down for the order, but it had to be pre sold for it to be shipped.
"...or maybe the sales manager put his name down for the order..."
Geeee, really? Would a sales manager really do that?
My point is, just because the dealers had 13k orders for Solsti doesn't mean they had 13k pre-sold.
"Somebody may have changed their mind after they ordered it...."
Well, with that many pre-sold you'd think the dealer would just go down to the next name on the list. Either that or many folks got on multiple lists just to see who would get the car in first and then get their deposit back from the other dealers.
And how many of the first cars were pre-sold to speculators? There's already two Solstices listed on e-bay......
edit - at least 4 Solstices already listed on e-bay.
edit - at least 4 Solstices already listed on e-bay.
I've seen some offers on e-bay. All that I have seen were by people waiting for their delivery - with no confirmed time of delivery - and were for significantly over invoice. Believe the average was more than $5k over invoice.
Answering your question about Solsti on the dealer show room, I've not seen one in the Chicago area Pontiac dealerships. I am somewhat skeptical about the original post.
By all accounts, the vehicle is in high demand with little current supply to meet the demand.
When is the end of convertible season end in California?
Good point.
I am going to the Bay Area at the end of this month. I've rented a convertible. I expect the top will be down every day.
The best convertible weather in Northern and Southern California is from Mid September through late December and even January in the South. After that, the rains start in good years, making it top up time. But note four months is longer than optimal convertible weather in places such as the Midwest and Atlantic States.
Just like the Xfire when it came out The stupid dealers thought they were selling some sort of "exotic". One dealer would not even let you test drive one unless you put a deposit on one ! Anyway, give it a year or 18 months there will be "incentives" etc. just like always. They are trying the same crap with the HHR too and they are already piling up on the lots.
"By all accounts, the vehicle is in high demand with little current supply to meet the demand."
Yes. No debating that at all. All I was trying to say originally was that the dealers were trying to get as many Solsti on their lots as feasible as early as feasible because they:
1) Know the car would be in great demand. 2) Know the car would be good. 3) Know initial supply would be limited.
Given all that, a dealer would have to be an idiot to not order as large of an allocation as feasible even if that did mean 'inventing' a few pre-orders from customers.
It seemed as though you doubted the story about the Solstice sitting on the showroom with a MSRP of around $27k (could have included a few 'extra-value' packages for $1.5k for all we know) plus an additional $1k ADM. Why would you doubt that story? I find it very reasonable that a dealer would have a Solstice which the sales manager put his name on the pre-order form and then they stick it on the showroom with a big markup. Who's to say that car #1 on any particular dealer's list HAS to belong to John Q. Public and not Joe Q. Dealer?
Heck, those silly e-bay cars which the speculators are trying sell (1 of which already has over 500 miles) have 'buy it now' prices for 28k and up.
Comments
NOTE: this article refers to CANADIAN prices.
The Review is by a very good journalist, Jim Kenzie.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Art- icle&cid=1125006612685&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196
Nice details of design genesis
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Art- icle&cid=1125006612054&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196
If the best you can do is talk about the Fiero, you really need to take a break. What was Mazda making in 1984?
RX-7 springs immediately to mind.....
The Fiero, believe it or not, has an active fan base some 20 years later.
Bottom line here is that the Solstice is built on a real sports car platform, has an excellent, torquey power plant, has near 52/48 front rear balance, and has a manual made by the same people who make the Mazda MX-5.
But positive press apparently has to be secured by a bribe.
"The Fiero, believe it or not, has an active fan base some 20 years later. "
So does the RX-7. So does the Pacer. Whether or not a car has a 'fan base' says less about the car and more about those who are fans of the car (IMO).
All of this is COMPLETELY besides the point. The history of the Fiero has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the Solstice will be successful from either a sales point, profit point, or sportscar point.
"Bottom line here is that the Solstice is built on a real sports car platform, has an excellent, torquey power plant, has near 52/48 front rear balance, and has a manual made by the same people who make the Mazda MX-5."
Yes. Absolutely, and I can't wait for the slew of inevitable back-to-back comparisons between these two cars.
"But positive press apparently has to be secured by a bribe."
Please don't lump me in with this kind of statement. I'm trying to withold judgement until I see in-depth tests of production vehicles rather than preliminary 'first drive' impressions of pre-production units.
Meanwhile, until the Sky actually __gets__ here, it'll be interesting to see how crazy the Solstice feeding frenzy gets; Noted a Solstice is __already__ being auctioned on Ebay !!
Shades of the GTI and PT Cruiser !!! :surprise:
1. They removed all GM and Pontiac badging, and asked a panel to guess what car company is making the car. The most popular answer was Porsche, with Ferrari and other highly regarded European manufacturers rounding out most of the other answers. Not one panelist guessed it was actually a Pontiac
This brings up an interesting point (to me, at least). Many compare the Solstice to the 50s/60s Lotus and other British Roadsters.
When I look at the Solstice, I think more of the Italian Roadsters of the same era.
The Sky is more of a British and German looking car.
Any word on whether Pontiac will come up with some different interior color options? I really like the concept light blue with dark blue trim.
:-)
The Solstice has what I suspect will be a quite memorable shape.
Loren
And speaking of reading, I wonder when the Edmunds' Solstice review gets released. A couple of reviews are out there already. Maybe GM has them holding until September 1?
I think maybe Autoweek gets away with the early publishing because it also circulates a hard copy perodical with a big lead time.
In any event, the Autoweek article is short on detail. I look forward to reading Edmunds' report as well as those from the buff magazines.
Exterior:Solstice wins
Interior:MX5 wins
Top operation:Mx5 (have to get out of the car w/Solstice)
Practicality:MX5 due to trunk size
Ride:Solstice
Handling:Solstice
Structure:Solstice
Primary Controls:Draw
Engine:Draw
Overall Verdict:Solstice wins
So Solstice wins or draws in every category except trunk space, having to get out of the car to put the roof up and interior fit and finish which was still close. Every other category that Solstice won was what really counts on a roadster-Exterior Styling, Ride, Handling and structure.
Also measured were Acceleration, braking and roadholding and they were close enough that C&D did not hardly comment about the differences.
Now the above comes right out of the magazine.
Sounds like both cars are great cars and competition will be great to follow between them. Let the car sales begin!!!!
Reliability is yet to be seen but since Mazda quality is basically tied for last place with Suzuki for initial quality (JD Power). I forsee Mazda having to prove itself.
Resale will have to wait a few years since Solstice is sold out and few will be on the used market for awhile.
How do you have such insight to know the MX-5 will be more reliable? I would tend to agree with the MX-5 having higher resale, but ya never know.
If you are making economic arguments about which new car to buy, then you really should be buying a used car.
The maximum difference between a similarly-equipped Solstice and an Mx-5 is 10K (assuming reliability differences, resale differences, etc.). If 10K is gonna bug you, then you should be buying used.
(it's more likely that the diff. b/t the MX-5 and the Solstice is less than 10K, maybe just 5K. At that level, you shjould certainly just buy the one that gives YOU the most grins.)
I've periodically checked these boards, as the Solstice is one of the most highly anticipated cars to hit the market in awhile. I'm not in the market for one (or for a Miata for that matter either; I've got my heart set on a Mini Cooper S, whose 2002 release in many ways reminds me of the Solstice), so a few unbiased observations:
The Miata is somewhat blah (as is the Honda S2000) from a styling perspective, as is the S2000. The Solstice is a jaw dropper from a styling standpoing (The Sky, however, is another matter, and looks cheap in comparison to the Solstice IMHO). That being said, the Fiero comparison is somewhat unfair (Some would say the RX-7, with the rotary engines, were no treat either, as you pretty much had to put in another quart of oil at every stoplight), but not totally off the mark--the Fiero generated a large amount of buzz with it's styling, but it's reliability was anything but stellar. Then again, it's performance doesn't match the Solstice's either.
Would I buy a Solstice, first year out? No way. Do I want it to do well? Absolutely. This car knocks my socks off in looks; from everything I've read, it rides very nice for a roadster (It may not have the performance of the S2000, but I wouldn't want the S2000 tradeoff in ride quality), and when it's available in a hardtop, and when (if) all the inevitble bugs of a new launch are worked out, I might just get one of these. I like the Miata too, but I'd never buy one--it just doesn't do it for me from a styling standpoint, although I can see why others like it.
As for Solstice saving Pontiac, c'mon, this is a niche market...It will be better for Pontiac, and Solstice owners, to keep it a novelty, and keep numbers reasonable rather than mass producing it--it will give Pontiac a notch in it's belt to have a desirable, hard to get car. Too bad Saturn is making the Sky.
IMHO, I see two issues on the board: A mild to moderate amount of jealousy from Miata owners over the buzz the Solstice has generated, and a reflex attempt to bash it at every opportunity; on the other hand, the Solstice owners tend to see the car through rose colored glasses at the moment--there will be problems with this car, no doubts in my mind on this--I just hope Pontiac responds to them appropriately, and gets all the major bugs worked out within a year or two.
The guy who styled the Pontiac Solstice now works for Mazda. Bob Lutz was one of the people behind the Solstice.
The Mazda MX-5/Miata is the ONLY roadster under $25,000 for the 2006 model year.
If the Solstice is indeed half-baked Pontiac, then it will probably show up on the RACE TRACK. As I have said before, the Pontiac Solstice will be raced in Grand-Am Cup. Grand-Am Cup is arguably the most competive AND the most production-based sports car racing in North America. The series is only gaining teams and drivers.
check the link
Grand American Road Racing
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I like the lines of the 2002 Solstice Coupe concept a lot. Plus, it would have more cargo room, a more rigid chassis, and better aerodynamics (like the new 2006 Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe) than the current Roadster if it were built.
:-)
If I was to buy one, it would be a summer around town kind of car but it would be nice if you could at least get a couple of bags of groceries into the trunk with the top down. Still, it's looks alone would sell me. I just love the thing.
It's so new I have yet to see any on the road. And I thought they were supposed to be all sold out from pre-orders for this model year anyway.
They must know they can sell it for that unfortunately.
------end quote-------
In the last 15 years, show me one year in which the Miata MX-5 had poor quality.
The Miata is darn near bullet proof. You can pound the heck out of it on the back roads
and it never complains. It just keeps ticking along like a Timex watch
I don't see MX-5 as worth $24K, and certainly would not pay $27K for a Solstice. These are nice cars for sporting on the weekends, or whatever, but my goodness, nothing worth that sort of money. Just get a Mustang GT for $25K, which is also over priced, or a used Corvette. More room inside for adult sized people, and better as an everyday drive car.
-Loren
Charging over MSRP is not a joke when you have GM making 7k cars this year and Pontiac dealers with over 13k confirmed orders.
What better built more reliable Roadsters for the money are you talking about, pray tell?
I found the interior components in mine somewhat chintzy. The latches for the middle component storage area and the glove box broke. The panel cover under the steering wheel kept falling off. The seat tracks were not all that solid either.
Mechanically, it was pretty sound.
Then why was there a car sitting around the showroom for sale? Wouldn't that car already have a buyer?
The 13k are orders from the DEALERS for the car. That isn't the same as saying that 13k people have deposits down with a dealer for the car. The dealers are anticipating it will be a hot seller, so they're simply trying to get as many as they can to sell, knowing that (at least initially) demand will outstrip supply.
And normally we aren't talking about convertibles hitting the market at the end of convertible season.
Geeee, really? Would a sales manager really do that?
My point is, just because the dealers had 13k orders for Solsti doesn't mean they had 13k pre-sold.
"Somebody may have changed their mind after they ordered it...."
Well, with that many pre-sold you'd think the dealer would just go down to the next name on the list. Either that or many folks got on multiple lists just to see who would get the car in first and then get their deposit back from the other dealers.
And how many of the first cars were pre-sold to speculators? There's already two Solstices listed on e-bay......
edit - at least 4 Solstices already listed on e-bay.
And when is the start of convertible season in the south? Much too hot during the summer months. Gets over 95 and all convertibles put the top up!
I've seen some offers on e-bay. All that I have seen were by people waiting for their delivery - with no confirmed time of delivery - and were for significantly over invoice. Believe the average was more than $5k over invoice.
Answering your question about Solsti on the dealer show room, I've not seen one in the Chicago area Pontiac dealerships. I am somewhat skeptical about the original post.
By all accounts, the vehicle is in high demand with little current supply to meet the demand.
Good point.
I am going to the Bay Area at the end of this month. I've rented a convertible. I expect the top will be down every day.
The best convertible weather in Northern and Southern California is from Mid September through late December and even January in the South. After that, the rains start in good years, making it top up time. But note four months is longer than optimal convertible weather in places such as the Midwest and Atlantic States.
believer (sometimes )
Yes. No debating that at all. All I was trying to say originally was that the dealers were trying to get as many Solsti on their lots as feasible as early as feasible because they:
1) Know the car would be in great demand.
2) Know the car would be good.
3) Know initial supply would be limited.
Given all that, a dealer would have to be an idiot to not order as large of an allocation as feasible even if that did mean 'inventing' a few pre-orders from customers.
It seemed as though you doubted the story about the Solstice sitting on the showroom with a MSRP of around $27k (could have included a few 'extra-value' packages for $1.5k for all we know) plus an additional $1k ADM. Why would you doubt that story? I find it very reasonable that a dealer would have a Solstice which the sales manager put his name on the pre-order form and then they stick it on the showroom with a big markup. Who's to say that car #1 on any particular dealer's list HAS to belong to John Q. Public and not Joe Q. Dealer?
Heck, those silly e-bay cars which the speculators are trying sell (1 of which already has over 500 miles) have 'buy it now' prices for 28k and up.