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There are obviously poor internet sales departments in dealerships. I would like to think that I ran a pretty good internet business. We had decent closing ratios on the leads that we received.
As Volvomax pointed out, the profit is typically much less on these deals. He also pointed out that in order to do a good job with them, you need to commit the time. The only real way to accomodate internet customers, imo, is to have a dedicated internet department. That was my advice to my managers when I ran ours and took care of walk-in traffic. We would receive numerous leads each day and the work on each one kept piling up. Frustrations would arise because of the lack of responses from these leads and the time it took to get a few questions answered.
One phone call to the potential customer would help to cut down on the time spent by a ludicrous amount. It's a frustrating thing for the salesperson to deal with. Low profits, price focused buyers and a ton of time spent on bogus leads. Put yourself in the position of the salesman. What would you rather work? The walk-ins and phone-ups or the internet leads? Yup, you said it!
You mentioned downtime at the dealership. Absolutely you have downtime, but you never know when the next great up is going to walk through the door and when the next best phone-up is going to hit the dealership. You want to be available.
I turned in my internet leads and told them I was done with it. Though I picked up a number of extra deals through the internet each month and was able to hit some extra unit bonus levels sometimes, it simply wasn't worth the headache and time to me.
Again, I"m not saying there isn't room for improvement. I'm just saying that from a salesman's perspective, I would never want to work the internet again. I'm there to make money and it showed that I always made more money when I didn't have to deal with internet customers.
There are exceptions to all of this, but this should give you a good overview.
I was thinking about a Tacoma Prerunner for my son, so I thought I'd try the email route with a few of the local Toyota dealerships who always run screamer ads. Since they always run screamer ads I assumed they were "old school" and I didn't worry about wasting their time.
I went to their websites, clicked on the "Price Quote" link, and was very specific about the vehicle I was seeking, something like "New Tacoma Prerunner base cab, white or blue, only must have option is A/C" which only comes with the SR5 package. Now anyone who knows Tacomas also knows there's no need to specify drive train, engine size, or the tranny for the Prerunner base cab as it only comes with 4 cyl, manual tranny and 2WD. I also specified to respond via email only.
I got phone calls, emails asking for what type of Tacoma I was seeking, what color I wanted, and just about anything else that I already stated. The quotes I did get were vague, $X plus tax tag & fees, and none of them with mention of a specific vehicle they had in stock. When I asked for a specific price break down with a final out the door price and also the vehicles they had in stock that matched what I was seeking, I got more vague emails.
In my recent experience it was a HUGE waste of time and caused by the sales person.
Now a comment on the recent discussion about up to date inventory, as I too work in the computer field, and the technology exists today for an accurate up to date inventory with zero additional time spent by the sales person or F&I person. The dealer's website would need to be connected to Toyota's (which it probably already is) so that when a vehicle arrives, the inventory is updated. Once the vehicle is sold and the papers are signed, the inventory is updated and that vehicle is removed from stock. I believe someone already mentioned that the F&I guy prints everything out, so the computer access is already there. It just takes an application update to tie things together.
Dedicated internet department and little to no profit.
...assuming you believe there is no profit at invoice. Note that "profit" does not mean commission for the salesperson, profit means whatever the dealership owner puts in his pocket after paying all expenses and collecting all manufacturer-to-dealer incentives (and those expenses probably include a big salary for himself).
Judging by the lifestyles of dealership owners, that profit plus their own salary is plenty.
You're absolutely correct. My example would be on a volume store where holdback is typically 2.5% of MSRP. Let's say that MSRP is $14,000. That's a whopping $350. Most dealerships don't pay on holdback, so the salesman is looking at a mini. Of course, the dealership is doing great with volume bonuses, etc. The salesman is the one scrounging for pennies.
Ugly for salesman.
Throughout this thread, I'm not trying to defend the bad business practices by some dealerships. I guess I'm trying to give a window into what a salesman is thinking when getting internet leads.
This is why I posed the question about what can a consumer do to help with the process. I tried to give some examples of what might help, because in all reality it sounds like this problem is across the nation.
With all due respect, I know quite a few sales people that receive bonuses monies based on the number of units moved, even separate new vs. pre-owned bonuses. Granted I'm speaking to Infiniti & lexus. Your dealership may not offer this to you and this could be an ownership/management decision regardless of make possibly based on giography.
My examples were meant for mass market stores,not hi line ones. Even so, most unit bonuses are a couple hundred dollars or so. Given all the time and effort put forth,its not good compensation.
In an earlier email you stated (and I'm paraphrasing) it would take too much time to review inventories, put together a deal, and ask additional questions. This puzzles me, doesn't the dealership educate the salesperson as to the current buy and lease offers? The "let me see my manager...good cop/bad cop" comments are a little long in the tooth.
Assuming that an internet manager/salesperson knows all the current programs, it still isn't easy or quick. First, you have to find the right car, which can take time assuming you have the car. Otherwise you will have to locate one, or try to flip the customer to something you do have. Next is the quote. Most internet customers don't just ask for one quote. It's usually lease versus purchase, 36 mo vs 48 mo lease, do it at 12k/yr. How bout 15k/yr? Wait, I have a trade. It just goes on and on.
FWIW moo I think you are doing a good job providing some insight into the salesman perspective. I would say the same for other sales folks in this thread. I, for one, do appreciate it.
The web is an interesting business or market force. I'm noticing some things with regard to the auto market. There seems to be a trend that internet pricing is typically lower. The customer likes this, the salesman not so much. I am not real sure what forces precipitated that trend. Perhaps the dealer thinking that a typical web customer is more price conscious and the web makes it easier for a customer to simply go somewhere else, so they try to get the customer's attention quickly with more aggressive pricing.
Another is that an internet lead appears to take more time to service. An up walks into the dealership with a good idea of what they want, and a good closer can get the deal done in a matter of a few hours. An internet lead might take a few days to come to fruition. It is more difficult to figure out if it is a quality lead, and a greater percentage of them simply are not. The communication does not occur in real time. Harder to get the customer emotionally involved in the process. The salesman does not have the level of control of the process they are accustomed to. In the end there is not as much scratch for the salesman, often just the so called mini.
It is no big surprise really that given all this, the salesman has become conditioned to regard the typical internet lead as generally a lower quality lead. So, there is less enthusiasm to work via this medium.
I think the customer perspective is very different. Customers are becoming more aware that pricing is often more favorable for them through the web. I would think that actual amount of time of interaction is significantly less, even if the entire process is spread over a few days or even weeks. The customer sees this and thinks they don't have to be tied up at the dealership for a large block of time. They can mull over the decision longer and in the comfort of their home or workplace. They can more conveniently compare competing makes and models.
All in all I can see how a customer might find this to seem to be a more convenient means that fits easier into busy lives. For a growing population, these electronic means of communication, for a wide variety of purposes, are becoming the preferred method.
These are not necessarily competing perspectives, but finding reconciliation that is mutually beneficial seems elusive.
But I think a big part of the disconnect here might be the difference in the "tech saviness" of those in the biz vs those not in the biz. Those of us who spend a great deal of time working on computers may feel that updating websites and communicating via email is a very quick and easy proposition ... but many of those who work with people face to face most of the time would, of course, most times take much more of their valuable time perusing and responding to emails, never mind working with a website.
Just a thought.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Again, you keep missing the point here. My point is that, from what I have observed, there is a lot of "down time" at car dealerships. How much profit do you make as a salesperson standing out in front of the dealership like a bunch of school girls smoking and talking about the weather? NONE Why not use that time to work on internet leads?
Also, when you are working that email deal for a couple days or whatever, it's not the only thing that you are working on (I hope). In that couple of day span, you can probably be working dozens of emails deals plus some walk-in deals at the same time. Email doesn't have the immediacy of face-to-face interactions, so you can reply when it is convienent for you, since an immediate reply isn't expected.
I think your preception of what happens at a dealership is off base. In most stores there isn't as much downtime as you may think. Since you clearly have never worked at a dealer,debating this further is pointless.
You talk about building "relationships", but as far as I can tell, this is just lip service. Part of building a relationship is working with people in the manner in which they are comfortable, not in the manner in which the salesperson is comfortable. If a customer wants to deal via the internet rather than face-to-face, you don't build a relationship with them by demanding that they have to deal with you on your terms. People who prefer dealing through email or internet are doing so to save their own time. They don't want to travel back and forth between dealers getting quotes. By refusing to deal with them on their terms, this destroys the relationship that you want to build before it even gets off the ground.
I haven't said a word about building a relationship. In the first place, that doesn't happen in the average mass market store anyway. It only happens at the luxury level. Lux car customers prefer the treatment and the relationship. Most of them are professionals and business owners who value professionalism, courtesy and service after the sale. The repeat and referral rate in a hi line store dwarfs that of a mass market one. Ask anyone who has sold lux cars for a while. What I HAVE been talking about is a transaction that is PROFITABLE for the dealer. As a customer, you make the mistake of assuming that the act of selling a car is profitable, and it isn't always. Internet depts have expenses of their own. You have the staff, web maintenance, internet advertising(some of these sites can cost $10-15,000/mo). You simply can't make a profit selling cars at invoice.
So yes, it may be a pain to deal with all of thes customer "demands", but the fact is that without customers to sell cars to, then you aren't going to be in business for very long!
While internet sales are important,they are not critical, and may never be. Buying and selling cars is different from most internet commerce. In most dealerships, 70-80% of the sales still comes from walk in traffic. While they may use the internet for research, they still come in to see and drive the cars and negotiate face to face. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that because the internet may be YOUR preferred way of buying a car,tyhat everyone else feels the same way.
Take our exchange on this topic here and let's act like it was a negotiation over a specific car. In person, we could have done this in 1-2 hours and all is well. As it is, we've discussed this over the course of a couple of days now.
am not real sure what forces precipitated that trend. Perhaps the dealer thinking that a typical web customer is more price conscious and the web makes it easier for a customer to simply go somewhere else, so they try to get the customer's attention quickly with more aggressive pricing.
Bingo. The problem with this kind of attention grabbing is trying to compare apples to apples. Many dealerships will play games with those numbers and not include many added fees or include rebates that you don't qualify for. All in all, it's a frustrating experience for everyone involved.
I completely understand that to some consumers, the ease of working through e-mail is preferred. Time is important and you can address questions/needs through e-mail at your convenience. Not everyone is available immediately for direct communication.
All that being said, you WILL find some internet departments that do a great job. It just may take a little bit of work to find them. Keep in mind what I've said as well. In order to let these dealerships know that you're serious, let them get some interaction from you as well. If they call you on their first contact and you don't want to be called, politely let them know that. If they continue to call, don't do business with them. Let them know you're real and serious though. There's so many crap leads that it's difficult to find that diamond in the rough. (Unfortunately, just an initial e-mail from you doesn't signify a serious buyer.)
Ya, I don't think you're correct on that account. Personal computers are more popular than HD televisions. Everyone knows how to use e-mail, etc. The disconnect is based on the lack of profit and the poor state of the leads.
The web is an interesting business or market force. I'm noticing some things with regard to the auto market. There seems to be a trend that internet pricing is typically lower. The customer likes this, the salesman not so much. I am not real sure what forces precipitated that trend. Perhaps the dealer thinking that a typical web customer is more price conscious and the web makes it easier for a customer to simply go somewhere else, so they try to get the customer's attention quickly with more aggressive pricing.
If I could interject. The only criteria that an internet lead can use to judge the dealer is price. If you email 5 dealers, you are going to talk to the one w/ the lowest price, right? If you have never set foot in their building then it doesn't matter that they are clear across town, have a bad service dept,etc. As you have noticed, some dealers try not to talk price. Needless to say, they don't get very far,usually.
These are not necessarily competing perspectives, but finding reconciliation that is mutually beneficial seems elusive.
As with anything dealing with buyers and sellers, you have competing goals. The seller wants the highest price he can get, the buyer the lowest.
Ya, I don't think you're correct on that account. Personal computers are more popular than HD televisions. Everyone knows how to use e-mail, etc. The disconnect is based on the lack of profit and the poor state of the leads.
Actually, he probably not far off. Remember that there are really only 2 operating systems for dealers, ADP and Reynolds. Most dealer systems are antiquated,because they don't have the money to update. So, those systems make it difficult to have your inventory on line for example. Yes, giving a quote by email isn't technically difficult. But, that isn't the only complaint here.
Ya, I think he was referencing me about the "relationship" thing. I was actually talking about building rapport and setting myself apart from the other dealers. As Volvomax stated, the relationship is important AFTER the sale and typically with highline customers.
Customers typically buy from someone they like. I would like to be that person. It's tough to let people know you're human when you're just typing to people.
I'll give you an example of something that can be very frustrating. A customer asks you to contact them only via e-mail. They want drive-out quotes on two different models and want leasing numbers on both as well in a variety of different scenarios. You spend 1 hour putting all the numbers together and another 10 minutes typing all the specific information into a tailored e-mail. Their response?
"too high"
And that's it. All that work and you get someone who tells you nothing more than "too high". So then you need to revisit the deal and see if there are any other options for him. After 5 days of trying to contact the guy again, you get another response. "bought elsewhere".
Too many folks with disrespect to real professionals. Hehe, maybe we should start pointing the finger back at the consumer. It's YOUR fault!
Aww, c'mon. Can't you tell from that first email that I'm really just a 17 year old kid who really thinks I can afford that Hummer. Really I can, I just got a raise last week. :P
Note - no offense intended towards 17 year old kids who really can afford a Hummer.
Businesses that insist that customers do it their way, usually get left behind for businesses that concentrate on the customer's needs (real or perceived)..
Just because it's always been done a certain way, doesn't mean it won't eventually change...
I agree with what you're saying. I guess I'm trying to point out that there are certain things to improve upon from both sides.
If 92% of your customers didn't buy from you, would you be real excited about those leads? When those 8% bought, and you made $100 for 3 weeks of work, would that get you excited?
Like CSI, the internet is broke. :sick:
-moo
Edit: I won't work the internet anymore because of this. I turned down the opportunity when given it recently. You may find that your more seasoned sales guys have no interest in it for the reasons that I mentioned. Maybe you just have Greenpeas working those leads and this is part of the problem as well. You're not getting the best of the bunch. He's not really a "manager". He's just the latest sucker to get involved with the internet business.
Personal computers are more popular than HD televisions. Everyone knows how to use e-mail, etc.
Well, I guess I should have explained it better. Its not that salespeople don't know HOW to use this stuff, I think it may just take more time than someone like a web programmer might give credit for.
Good example is my father-in-law. He's a big-time real estate guru (so its sort of sales, or at least used to be sales). Anyway, he has a PC and uses email, sure. He does his stocks online, etc. But, it would take him MUCH longer to reply to 10 emails with the proper info than it would me, who sits in front of a computer all day long. It has nothing to do with intelligence or anything of that nature. It is just a matter of being able to do something quickly because it is repetitive in nature.
But vmax makes an interesting point, too, and one I hadn't considered: the lack of cutting-edge technology within the shop. If management sees no need for such things, it ain't gonna be there, of course.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If 92% of your customers didn't buy from you, would you be real excited about those leads? When those 8% bought, and you made $100 for 3 weeks of work, would that get you excited?
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
No one wants to get ripped off and that's usually what happens to walk in customers. The internet shopper knows this and that is why internet shopping is a growing trend.
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
I wonder how much the car sales business have ripped people off in last 50 years. It could total into the billions.
The thought of some greasy, slick haired, cheshire cat grinning, polyester suit wearing car salesman laughing all the way to bank at my $$ expensive is sickening to me.
Another thing, who wants to be at some dealership for hours haggling over some price.
I don't even want to go to the lot, I'm even reluctant to test drive because I don't want to be some subjected to some silly car salesmen pressure and sales "tricks". Tricks are for kids!!
Some of these internet sales people are becoming slick to, so what out for them.
This discussion HAD been civil. We're discussing ways to work around the problems talked about on the forum and reasons why things are the way they are.
You quoted my question, but you didn't answer it.
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
I guess it's fun to paint that picture, but that's a bit stereotypical. I can name a number of other industries that have made life much more difficult for the country than dealerships. (i.e. unscrupulous mortgage brokers)
Though there is obviously a trend moving towards internet, you still need to come into the dealership to pick up your vehicle.
Let's steer away from the 1980's stereotypes and discuss the matter at hand. Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying.
Thanks for helping with the discussion and not hindering it.
Are they really one and the same? I understand the Fleet Managers job is to sale cars in large volumes, like to companies. However most people don't know is that they can sale to indiviuals as well. I heard that they don't work on commission.
The Internet/Fleet Manager seems to also work on commision as well, is that true?
All these situations depend on the dealership. I'll try and state the norm.
Nope, they are normally different folks. The internet department works with the exact same numbers that the regular salesfolks work with. The dealerships set up the internet department to handle the influx of leads.
Fleet managers do work normally with, well, fleet deals. :P You're right about them selling to individuals though. Their pay plan will normally be different than the normal salesguy but will still include commissions.
Both internet and fleet managers work on commission.
wonder how much the car sales business have ripped people off in last 50 years. It could total into the billions.
It is actually the quadrillions. I personaly have mad a gazzillion dollars in this business. That was just last week.
The thought of some greasy, slick haired, cheshire cat grinning, polyester suit wearing car salesman laughing all the way to bank at my $$ expensive is sickening to me
You should try some of that beano stuff ya see on TV. Must be embarrasing walking around with gas all the time.
BTW I wish I had hair to grease up and slick back
Another thing, who wants to be at some dealership for hours haggling over some price.
Apperantley the majority. we get a whopping 9.5% return on our internet department
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
Day of reackoning???????????? YIKES!!!! If the actual day of reackoning is here I guess none this trivial conversation really matters.
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
Holly crap dude, we are just selling cars not turning people down for organ transplants.
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
I think we have been trying to tell you that it takes a lot longer than 10 min to deal w/ an internet lead. Plus, a car salesman WILL take the time if he is compensated for it.
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
Not really because in most cases (not all) to get those 9 sales I still have to spend that same hour with the person when they get here to close the sale.
But if you do it right it is not a 10 minute job.
You still have to physically go put your hands on the unit that the customer is interested in to make sure you have it.
You still have to pull programs to see what they are
You still have to have a department mgr give you a price on it.
You still have to have the finance dept give you a bottom line on it.
If you don't do all that it is no different then calling a dealer and having him say "Ya we got it when can you come in."
I can talk to you 5 minutes face to face and get more info then I can exchanging multiple emails.
I think the internet is great for verifying a unit is in stock and setting an appointment. Other then that all you are doing is sawing saw dust.
This is really the same conversation we have on allot of things. We are not completly right or is the consumer. But I do believe we are allot closer to a middle ground now then we were say 10 years ago.
This discussion HAD been civil. We're discussing ways to work around the problems talked about on the forum and reasons why things are the way they are.
I guess is true that oil and water don't really mix.
You quoted my question, but you didn't answer it.
You question was a rhetorical one.
I guess it's fun to paint that picture, but that's a bit stereotypical. I can name a number of other industries that have made life much more difficult for the country than dealerships. (i.e. unscrupulous mortgage brokers)
I don't think the car sales is stereotypical at all, more like prototypical, even today. I read the story on Edmunds.com when the guy went undercover as car salesmen, sorry but its still the same way.
Though there is obviously a trend moving towards internet, you still need to come into the dealership to pick up your vehicle.
So deal with it, face the facts that the customers, thanks to internet, are getting smarter when it comes to car shopping.
Let's steer away from the 1980's stereotypes and discuss the matter at hand. Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying.
Better yet, lets steer away from the traditonal car buying all together. At least until laws can be put in place to better protect the consumer. At least in the Mortage industry (you're right though, snakes there as well) there is a 3 day cooling off period. So that if you are pressured into signing some papers, you have 3 days to review them and change your mind. There is no 3 day cooling off period with car purchases, so once you get fleeced its all over. Fleecing usually happens via the traditonal car buying way and that is why some of the gatekeepers of the traditional way prefer that method as opposed to the internet.
Thanks for helping with the discussion and not hindering it.
"...Valentine Honda sells all of their new car inventory for $1 over invoice!..."
Plus the $700 Doc fee of course. And all cars are VIN etched for $399. And all come with Mop & Slop protection package for $899. Sorry they all come that way from the factory, right?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
We still make money. If you buy a car we make money. I made 10k already and the month is not over. I made 165K last year selling cars. WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. WE DONT COME TO WORK EVERYDAY WEARING EXPENSIVE SUITES FOR OUR HEALTH. .
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
It takes a lot longer then ten min. with an internet lead. They are usually the pickiest customer to deal with. They want all the service but dont want to pay for it. With a walk in you spen just a much time and make 4 times or more the money.
We still make money. If you buy a car we make money. I made 10k already and the month is not over. I made 165K last year selling cars. WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. WE DONT COME TO WORK EVERYDAY WEARING EXPENSIVE SUITES FOR OUR HEALTH.
Making money is fine. We the consumer make money too or else we couldn't purchase your cars. However there is a difference between making an honest living and fleecing people. The days of "fleecing" consumers are coming to an end.
Also
Pimps, Drug Dealers, Politicians, and con-artist of many stripes make lots of money (some of them make millions) and wear expensive suit as well, big deal!
However there is a difference between making an honest living and fleecing people. The days of "fleecing" consumers are coming to an end.
Sounds like you got ripped off on a dea. Let me tell you something, a good or bad deal is all perceptions. I sell cars all the time and I don't rip people off. I make a fair deal and I let them know I am going to make money on this deal. I come to work to make money. There are certain customer that get all the discounts in the world and still feel they got ripped off. Even if you give them the car for free, they would still feel ripped off knowing that they will have to put gas in the car. There are the other customer that feel that they just want a fair deal for them and the dealership.
It sounds like your the 2% that are never satisfied with the purchase and feel they could have saved an extra penny somewhere. I've seen post on here that customers have walked out for $20.00 dollars out the door and still ask if this is a good deal.
Moo: Thanks for your perspective. I totally see where you and volvomax are coming from. If I were in your shoes, I would probably feel the same way.
I guess I am trying to look at things both from the customer's perspective AND the owner's point of view. I think in the long run, customers are going to be doing internet deals more, and dealership owners, as a result, are going to have to embrace the internet more to satisfy this demand. I guess there might be some unhappy salespeople like yourself. However, it's really the owner's that are calling the shots.
If a business owner finds that he or she is losing a lot of sales to a rival dealership because their internet department is below par, that owner is going to upgrade their internet department to compete. If that means that the salespeople aren't going to make as much commission, then most owners aren't going to care. On the contrary, many dealerships owners will probably welcome more online sales, since that means that they can lower their overhead (less showroom space, etc).
Maybe today dealerships can still compete without a good internet department or a good web site. However, as I pointed out, the generation behind mine might not be as tolerant of those things.
While internet sales are important,they are not critical, and may never be. Buying and selling cars is different from most internet commerce. In most dealerships, 70-80% of the sales still comes from walk in traffic. While they may use the internet for research, they still come in to see and drive the cars and negotiate face to face. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that because the internet may be YOUR preferred way of buying a car,tyhat everyone else feels the same way.
Actually, I have never bought a car over the internet. I am definitely "old school" in that regard. I grew up in a time where email and the like were not very prevalent, so negotiations in person are more my style.
I think we are getting to the crux of the matter here, though. You are probably right in that the majority of car sales are done face-to-face today [Note the emphasis on today]. However, my opinion is that, over the next decade, the consumers of tomorrow will do more negotiaions online rather than face to face. If this comes to pass, dealerships will have to adapt or go out of business. That is just the nature of business. Nothing personal...
Take our exchange on this topic here and let's act like it was a negotiation over a specific car. In person, we could have done this in 1-2 hours and all is well. As it is, we've discussed this over the course of a couple of days now.
Yes, but I've done a lot more than just have this exchange over the past few days. I've eating several meals, put it a full days work, tucked in my kids, did a few loads of laundry, etc, etc. All told, I probably have only spent about 1-2 hours on this over the past few days!!
I'm brand new to this forum and found this thread very interesting because I am one of those internet shoppers. I thought I'd share with you my experience today. I did my homework and knew exactly what I wanted. I sent a polite email of exactly what I'm looking for to 15 dealerships listed. I asked for the best price without adding in incentives and also asked for any other costs that are associated with the deal. I also listed what I believed to be all of the current incentives allowable to me and asked them to confirm their availability. I was very specific in asking for prompt and concise replies via email so I can make a decision within 24 hours. I explained that I was in meetings for the majority of the day and asked all information be emailed to me so I could view them on my Blackberry while in the meeting and do a little "work" on this while in the meeting. I let them know that I would NOT be able to answer phone calls while in the meeting so email only would be my preferred contact method.
Here's what I ended up with: Out of the 15... this was my experience:
- I got 3 dealers that simply called me on the phone (exactly what I politely asked them NOT to do). They left a message asking me to return their call so that they could "clarify" what I was looking for or to "further discuss" what I was looking for. I was so unbelievably specific that there was no "clarification or further discussion" needed. If they had any respect for the way I asked to work with them they could have easily emailed me their questions and I would have emailed them right back. There was no question in my mind that it was obvious they wanted to do it "their way" not the way I had asked them to work with me. In my book ... they don't deserve my business.
- I got 2 other dealers that called me and didn't even bother to pretend they were trying to meet my needs ... they just left a message that they can get me the information that I need and that they'll need me to call them so they can discuss it with me over the phone.
- I had 1 that said they could give me the information but only if I came into the dealership "ready to buy" (is telling them that you'll be buying in 24 hours not "ready" enough for them?).
- I got 2 dealers that emailed me that they will get back to me promptly (but as of 8pm this evening ... I still have not heard from them ... even though I wanted to make a decision about this today and I emailed my request over 12 hours ago).
- I got 3 dealers that never responded at all
- Now for the GOOD part ... I got 4 dealers that responded and I've been in conversation with 3 of them throughout the day today. They emailed me promptly and they broke their prices down and even offered their thoughts on other incentives that might work for me. They didn't get me all of the information I asked for and I had to email them asking for the add'l info ... but for the most part they tried.
There was only ONE dealer that gave me EVERTHING I needed in exactly the format I asked (they broke it out as MSRP versus what they could offer to me, confirmed the current incentives I asked about and actually made me aware of another, gave me the add'l fees their dealership would charge (title and processing fees) and then based on the final figure, they quoted me what my new monthly lease price woud be.
The others 3 dealers above I emailed back and forth as I tried as to pull information from them and reiterate exactly what I needed from them. Some offered me vehicles with add'l options that I didn't need or want ... but they at least utilized email and through a series of emails (about 3-4 seemed to finalize each one) ... they were able to finally get me mostly of what I needed to make a decision.
I am now looking at all of the quotes and will be making my decision this evening. First thing in the morning I will call the dealership to set up a time to come in and finalize this purchase. All of the quotes are quite close ... but I believe that the salesperson that I will be selecting will be the one who sent me over everything I needed in the fashion in which I asked for it. This salesperson seemed to be the person most attuned to delivering to me exactly what I asked for and even stated in their email that they believed in being respectful of my time and in getting me what I needed in a timely manner. This person's quote was NOT the lowest ... but the lowest wasn't the bottom line for me. I wanted to work with a salesperson who earned my business, my trust and my respect as well.
Sorry ... this is a LONG read but I wanted to show the "other side" of those of us who are "Internet Buyers". Some of us are not looking to waste your time but more so to save ourselves some time. We truly WANT to buy in this manner and want a quick and easy way to work with a salesperson ... not to try to knock you down to bottom of the barrel price ... but to just make it an easier way to purchase.
Yes, I did take up the time of a total of 4 salespeople today as they responded back and forth to me ... but most of the back and forth emails were unnecessary if they had simply sent me over the details I had initially asked for. For the one salesperson that did ... she only sent me one email ... the one that contained all of the information I asked for initially. (oh ... and yes ... it was a female salesperson which I find ironic because that had no factor in my decision). To me the fact that she was female had no factor in my choice, but I do wonder if maybe because she was a female she was more respectful of another female's time ... or that she was more attuned into the details as I know some women can be. I don't know ... I simply know she did her job well ... and she earned my business.
In closing I will also mention that my profession is that I'm a Realtor ... so I DO know how it is on the other end with working with the public. I'm a salesperson ... I know some people have no respect for me or my time ... but there are also a lot of great people out there too really wanting my help. I've learned that when I focus on people who come to me seeking help and I focus on their needs and make sure they have the information they request in timely manner ... that I earn their loyalty. And because I do this ... I make a good living and enjoy what I do.
I hope my experience today was helpful to you. I do feel that sometimes just taking that "extra step" for someone can turn an "internet lead" into a very satisfied customer. I also work by referral and try to refer my friends to good salespeople. So this salesperson will more than likely see future business from my friends and business acquaintances.
Yours is another post to which I don't expect to see much (if any) response, besides this one.
Thanks for the report & a "well done" for getting what you asked for (well, we hope so -- it's not over till the fat lady sings, and it sounds like she's not going to get the opportunity until tomorrow).
Quite some time ago we were told where I work that Total Quality involves satisfying the customer as the number one objective. Internet quotations satisfy an increasing number of customers. There appear to be many stores that hope the Internet will go away (along with those pesky customers who use it). My put is that the trend is toward that one response you got from someone who could read and write, and that nearly all those in the business who post here wish it were otherwise.
If you want to see a real hornet's nest stirred up, I could do my riff on direct custom orders to the factory with no dealer involvement; the Internet makes it a piece of cake. It's not pretty.
It sounds like your the 2% that are never satisfied with the purchase and feel they could have saved an extra penny somewhere. I've seen post on here that customers have walked out for $20.00 dollars out the door and still ask if this is a good deal.
Nope, I'm just a hard working person trying to make a honest living. What I despise are deceitful liars, which unforunately, the car selling industry is filled with those types. It seems to me that a truthful and honest person won't do very well in that industry.
The Edmunds undercover salesman story was horrorfying, just terrible. Words can't discribe my disdain for what that story said goes on in car dealerships, just reprehensible and repugnant.
If I owned a dealership, I would name it the "The First Honest Car Dealership". Where "truth" is our motto. If I was to find any of my sales people lying, they would be fired on the spot. Not even little "white lies" would be acceptable.
Of course I would quickly go out of business right?
No one has to lie to sell a car. Your present your product and show what it takes to own it. Just like any other business out there. The shoes you wear were sold to you.
I think your just bitter. Try going to Mcdonalds and ask them to give you invoice on a Big Mac.
That was an excellent response. Maybe because I work in a small high end store, we respond the way your successful salesperson did. However, what posters (and lurkers) here do not realize is that they represent only a small minority of car buyers, shoppers and surfers. Most of our internet inquires just state they are going to buy a Range Rover (usually Supercharged) in 24 hours and do not ask for any information. The vast minority that ask for information will get it and it ALWAYS leads to verbal discussion and eventually the dealership visit. Although you may have built common ground, the process is basically the dame as if they walked in cold off the street. E-mails that request best OTD quotes will get them, then disappear into another world. I am not discounting the importance of e-leads, just saying in the real world they are not nearly what those not in the biz percieve them to be by the way they do business.
However, I've believed that the professionals who post here are mostly salespeople, as opposed to the principals or other senior management types who would make the policies to which Mr. Farmer refers.
I think you'll see in post 2292 a very well informed internet buyer. I'd echo that post to address the second half of yours.
Similarly, I know exactly what lease parameters I want, finance/lease structure, exact vehicle, and options. What I'm willing to take in addition to my requested vehicle and what options I will not buy/lease without....oh and no trade. I make this easy
And again, I've found similar success, where I contact several dealers which I'm willing to travel to and there's always one or two that answer the call respectfully and with specific information. Those are the dealers I'll continue to buy from.
Comments
As Volvomax pointed out, the profit is typically much less on these deals. He also pointed out that in order to do a good job with them, you need to commit the time. The only real way to accomodate internet customers, imo, is to have a dedicated internet department. That was my advice to my managers when I ran ours and took care of walk-in traffic. We would receive numerous leads each day and the work on each one kept piling up. Frustrations would arise because of the lack of responses from these leads and the time it took to get a few questions answered.
One phone call to the potential customer would help to cut down on the time spent by a ludicrous amount. It's a frustrating thing for the salesperson to deal with. Low profits, price focused buyers and a ton of time spent on bogus leads. Put yourself in the position of the salesman. What would you rather work? The walk-ins and phone-ups or the internet leads? Yup, you said it!
You mentioned downtime at the dealership. Absolutely you have downtime, but you never know when the next great up is going to walk through the door and when the next best phone-up is going to hit the dealership. You want to be available.
I turned in my internet leads and told them I was done with it. Though I picked up a number of extra deals through the internet each month and was able to hit some extra unit bonus levels sometimes, it simply wasn't worth the headache and time to me.
Again, I"m not saying there isn't room for improvement. I'm just saying that from a salesman's perspective, I would never want to work the internet again. I'm there to make money and it showed that I always made more money when I didn't have to deal with internet customers.
There are exceptions to all of this, but this should give you a good overview.
-moo
Dedicated internet department and little to no profit.
He's right about wanting to get in touch with a customer quickly.
-moo
I went to their websites, clicked on the "Price Quote" link, and was very specific about the vehicle I was seeking, something like "New Tacoma Prerunner base cab, white or blue, only must have option is A/C" which only comes with the SR5 package. Now anyone who knows Tacomas also knows there's no need to specify drive train, engine size, or the tranny for the Prerunner base cab as it only comes with 4 cyl, manual tranny and 2WD. I also specified to respond via email only.
I got phone calls, emails asking for what type of Tacoma I was seeking, what color I wanted, and just about anything else that I already stated. The quotes I did get were vague, $X plus tax tag & fees, and none of them with mention of a specific vehicle they had in stock. When I asked for a specific price break down with a final out the door price and also the vehicles they had in stock that matched what I was seeking, I got more vague emails.
In my recent experience it was a HUGE waste of time and caused by the sales person.
Now a comment on the recent discussion about up to date inventory, as I too work in the computer field, and the technology exists today for an accurate up to date inventory with zero additional time spent by the sales person or F&I person. The dealer's website would need to be connected to Toyota's (which it probably already is) so that when a vehicle arrives, the inventory is updated. Once the vehicle is sold and the papers are signed, the inventory is updated and that vehicle is removed from stock. I believe someone already mentioned that the F&I guy prints everything out, so the computer access is already there. It just takes an application update to tie things together.
...assuming you believe there is no profit at invoice. Note that "profit" does not mean commission for the salesperson, profit means whatever the dealership owner puts in his pocket after paying all expenses and collecting all manufacturer-to-dealer incentives (and those expenses probably include a big salary for himself).
Judging by the lifestyles of dealership owners, that profit plus their own salary is plenty.
Ugly for salesman.
Throughout this thread, I'm not trying to defend the bad business practices by some dealerships. I guess I'm trying to give a window into what a salesman is thinking when getting internet leads.
This is why I posed the question about what can a consumer do to help with the process. I tried to give some examples of what might help, because in all reality it sounds like this problem is across the nation.
-moo
My examples were meant for mass market stores,not hi line ones.
Even so, most unit bonuses are a couple hundred dollars or so.
Given all the time and effort put forth,its not good compensation.
In an earlier email you stated (and I'm paraphrasing) it would take too much time to review inventories, put together a deal, and ask additional questions. This puzzles me, doesn't the dealership educate the salesperson as to the current buy and lease offers? The "let me see my manager...good cop/bad cop" comments are a little long in the tooth.
Assuming that an internet manager/salesperson knows all the current programs, it still isn't easy or quick.
First, you have to find the right car, which can take time assuming you have the car.
Otherwise you will have to locate one, or try to flip the customer to something you do have.
Next is the quote. Most internet customers don't just ask for one quote. It's usually lease versus purchase, 36 mo vs 48 mo lease, do it at 12k/yr. How bout 15k/yr?
Wait, I have a trade. It just goes on and on.
The web is an interesting business or market force. I'm noticing some things with regard to the auto market. There seems to be a trend that internet pricing is typically lower. The customer likes this, the salesman not so much. I am not real sure what forces precipitated that trend. Perhaps the dealer thinking that a typical web customer is more price conscious and the web makes it easier for a customer to simply go somewhere else, so they try to get the customer's attention quickly with more aggressive pricing.
Another is that an internet lead appears to take more time to service. An up walks into the dealership with a good idea of what they want, and a good closer can get the deal done in a matter of a few hours. An internet lead might take a few days to come to fruition. It is more difficult to figure out if it is a quality lead, and a greater percentage of them simply are not. The communication does not occur in real time. Harder to get the customer emotionally involved in the process. The salesman does not have the level of control of the process they are accustomed to. In the end there is not as much scratch for the salesman, often just the so called mini.
It is no big surprise really that given all this, the salesman has become conditioned to regard the typical internet lead as generally a lower quality lead. So, there is less enthusiasm to work via this medium.
I think the customer perspective is very different. Customers are becoming more aware that pricing is often more favorable for them through the web. I would think that actual amount of time of interaction is significantly less, even if the entire process is spread over a few days or even weeks. The customer sees this and thinks they don't have to be tied up at the dealership for a large block of time. They can mull over the decision longer and in the comfort of their home or workplace. They can more conveniently compare competing makes and models.
All in all I can see how a customer might find this to seem to be a more convenient means that fits easier into busy lives. For a growing population, these electronic means of communication, for a wide variety of purposes, are becoming the preferred method.
These are not necessarily competing perspectives, but finding reconciliation that is mutually beneficial seems elusive.
Just a thought.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Also, when you are working that email deal for a couple days or whatever, it's not the only thing that you are working on (I hope). In that couple of day span, you can probably be working dozens of emails deals plus some walk-in deals at the same time. Email doesn't have the immediacy of face-to-face interactions, so you can reply when it is convienent for you, since an immediate reply isn't expected.
I think your preception of what happens at a dealership is off base.
In most stores there isn't as much downtime as you may think.
Since you clearly have never worked at a dealer,debating this further is pointless.
You talk about building "relationships", but as far as I can tell, this is just lip service. Part of building a relationship is working with people in the manner in which they are comfortable, not in the manner in which the salesperson is comfortable. If a customer wants to deal via the internet rather than face-to-face, you don't build a relationship with them by demanding that they have to deal with you on your terms. People who prefer dealing through email or internet are doing so to save their own time. They don't want to travel back and forth between dealers getting quotes. By refusing to deal with them on their terms, this destroys the relationship that you want to build before it even gets off the ground.
I haven't said a word about building a relationship.
In the first place, that doesn't happen in the average mass market store anyway.
It only happens at the luxury level. Lux car customers prefer the treatment and the relationship. Most of them are professionals and business owners who value professionalism, courtesy and service after the sale. The repeat and referral rate in a hi line store dwarfs that of a mass market one. Ask anyone who has sold lux cars for a while.
What I HAVE been talking about is a transaction that is PROFITABLE for the dealer. As a customer, you make the mistake of assuming that the act of selling a car is profitable, and it isn't always.
Internet depts have expenses of their own. You have the staff, web maintenance, internet advertising(some of these sites can cost $10-15,000/mo).
You simply can't make a profit selling cars at invoice.
So yes, it may be a pain to deal with all of thes customer "demands", but the fact is that without customers to sell cars to, then you aren't going to be in business for very long!
While internet sales are important,they are not critical, and may never be.
Buying and selling cars is different from most internet commerce.
In most dealerships, 70-80% of the sales still comes from walk in traffic.
While they may use the internet for research, they still come in to see and drive the cars and negotiate face to face. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that because the internet may be YOUR preferred way of buying a car,tyhat everyone else feels the same way.
Take our exchange on this topic here and let's act like it was a negotiation over a specific car. In person, we could have done this in 1-2 hours and all is well. As it is, we've discussed this over the course of a couple of days now.
am not real sure what forces precipitated that trend. Perhaps the dealer thinking that a typical web customer is more price conscious and the web makes it easier for a customer to simply go somewhere else, so they try to get the customer's attention quickly with more aggressive pricing.
Bingo. The problem with this kind of attention grabbing is trying to compare apples to apples. Many dealerships will play games with those numbers and not include many added fees or include rebates that you don't qualify for. All in all, it's a frustrating experience for everyone involved.
I completely understand that to some consumers, the ease of working through e-mail is preferred. Time is important and you can address questions/needs through e-mail at your convenience. Not everyone is available immediately for direct communication.
All that being said, you WILL find some internet departments that do a great job. It just may take a little bit of work to find them. Keep in mind what I've said as well. In order to let these dealerships know that you're serious, let them get some interaction from you as well. If they call you on their first contact and you don't want to be called, politely let them know that. If they continue to call, don't do business with them. Let them know you're real and serious though. There's so many crap leads that it's difficult to find that diamond in the rough. (Unfortunately, just an initial e-mail from you doesn't signify a serious buyer.)
-moo
-moo
If I could interject. The only criteria that an internet lead can use to judge the dealer is price.
If you email 5 dealers, you are going to talk to the one w/ the lowest price, right?
If you have never set foot in their building then it doesn't matter that they are clear across town, have a bad service dept,etc.
As you have noticed, some dealers try not to talk price.
Needless to say, they don't get very far,usually.
These are not necessarily competing perspectives, but finding reconciliation that is mutually beneficial seems elusive.
As with anything dealing with buyers and sellers, you have competing goals.
The seller wants the highest price he can get, the buyer the lowest.
Actually, he probably not far off.
Remember that there are really only 2 operating systems for dealers, ADP and Reynolds.
Most dealer systems are antiquated,because they don't have the money to update.
So, those systems make it difficult to have your inventory on line for example.
Yes, giving a quote by email isn't technically difficult. But, that isn't the only complaint here.
Customers typically buy from someone they like. I would like to be that person. It's tough to let people know you're human when you're just typing to people.
I'll give you an example of something that can be very frustrating. A customer asks you to contact them only via e-mail. They want drive-out quotes on two different models and want leasing numbers on both as well in a variety of different scenarios. You spend 1 hour putting all the numbers together and another 10 minutes typing all the specific information into a tailored e-mail. Their response?
"too high"
And that's it. All that work and you get someone who tells you nothing more than "too high". So then you need to revisit the deal and see if there are any other options for him. After 5 days of trying to contact the guy again, you get another response. "bought elsewhere".
Too many folks with disrespect to real professionals. Hehe, maybe we should start pointing the finger back at the consumer. It's YOUR fault!
Just playing around, but I hope you see my point.
-moo
Note - no offense intended towards 17 year old kids who really can afford a Hummer.
-moo
Ya, we get a bit of that as well. :P
-moo
Businesses that insist that customers do it their way, usually get left behind for businesses that concentrate on the customer's needs (real or perceived)..
Just because it's always been done a certain way, doesn't mean it won't eventually change...
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If 92% of your customers didn't buy from you, would you be real excited about those leads? When those 8% bought, and you made $100 for 3 weeks of work, would that get you excited?
Like CSI, the internet is broke. :sick:
-moo
Edit: I won't work the internet anymore because of this. I turned down the opportunity when given it recently. You may find that your more seasoned sales guys have no interest in it for the reasons that I mentioned. Maybe you just have Greenpeas working those leads and this is part of the problem as well. You're not getting the best of the bunch. He's not really a "manager". He's just the latest sucker to get involved with the internet business.
Well, I guess I should have explained it better. Its not that salespeople don't know HOW to use this stuff, I think it may just take more time than someone like a web programmer might give credit for.
Good example is my father-in-law. He's a big-time real estate guru (so its sort of sales, or at least used to be sales). Anyway, he has a PC and uses email, sure. He does his stocks online, etc. But, it would take him MUCH longer to reply to 10 emails with the proper info than it would me, who sits in front of a computer all day long. It has nothing to do with intelligence or anything of that nature. It is just a matter of being able to do something quickly because it is repetitive in nature.
But vmax makes an interesting point, too, and one I hadn't considered: the lack of cutting-edge technology within the shop. If management sees no need for such things, it ain't gonna be there, of course.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
No one wants to get ripped off and that's usually what happens to walk in customers. The internet shopper knows this and that is why internet shopping is a growing trend.
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
I wonder how much the car sales business have ripped people off in last 50 years. It could total into the billions.
The thought of some greasy, slick haired, cheshire cat grinning, polyester suit wearing car salesman laughing all the way to bank at my $$ expensive is sickening to me.
Another thing, who wants to be at some dealership for hours haggling over some price.
I don't even want to go to the lot, I'm even reluctant to test drive because I don't want to be some subjected to some silly car salesmen pressure and sales "tricks". Tricks are for kids!!
Some of these internet sales people are becoming slick to, so what out for them.
You quoted my question, but you didn't answer it.
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
I guess it's fun to paint that picture, but that's a bit stereotypical. I can name a number of other industries that have made life much more difficult for the country than dealerships. (i.e. unscrupulous mortgage brokers)
Though there is obviously a trend moving towards internet, you still need to come into the dealership to pick up your vehicle.
Let's steer away from the 1980's stereotypes and discuss the matter at hand. Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying.
Thanks for helping with the discussion and not hindering it.
-moo
The Internet/Fleet Manager seems to also work on commision as well, is that true?
Nope, they are normally different folks. The internet department works with the exact same numbers that the regular salesfolks work with. The dealerships set up the internet department to handle the influx of leads.
Fleet managers do work normally with, well, fleet deals. :P You're right about them selling to individuals though. Their pay plan will normally be different than the normal salesguy but will still include commissions.
Both internet and fleet managers work on commission.
-moo
It is actually the quadrillions. I personaly have mad a gazzillion dollars in this business. That was just last week.
The thought of some greasy, slick haired, cheshire cat grinning, polyester suit wearing car salesman laughing all the way to bank at my $$ expensive is sickening to me
You should try some of that beano stuff ya see on TV. Must be embarrasing walking around with gas all the time.
BTW I wish I had hair to grease up and slick back
Another thing, who wants to be at some dealership for hours haggling over some price.
Apperantley the majority. we get a whopping 9.5% return on our internet department
No other industry has reputation for being shaddy, sleazy, snake oily like the car sales business. This industry day of reckoning has come.
Day of reackoning???????????? YIKES!!!! If the actual day of reackoning is here I guess none this trivial conversation really matters.
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
Holly crap dude, we are just selling cars not turning people down for organ transplants.
You must spend allot time on stereotype.com
100 walkins= about 40 sales.
That is why it is hard to get a seasoned sales person to work internet. The idea of fewer sales for less pay does not appeal.
100 walkins= about 40 sales.
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
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SUVs and Smart Shopper
100 walkins= about 40 sales.
What about the time factor? If you average 60 minutes of your time with the walk-in and 10 minutes of your time with the internet lead then aren't you better off investing your time with the internet leads?
I think we have been trying to tell you that it takes a lot longer than 10 min to deal w/ an internet lead.
Plus, a car salesman WILL take the time if he is compensated for it.
Buh Bye
Not really because in most cases (not all) to get those 9 sales I still have to spend that same hour with the person when they get here to close the sale.
But if you do it right it is not a 10 minute job.
You still have to physically go put your hands on the unit that the customer is interested in to make sure you have it.
You still have to pull programs to see what they are
You still have to have a department mgr give you a price on it.
You still have to have the finance dept give you a bottom line on it.
If you don't do all that it is no different then calling a dealer and having him say "Ya we got it when can you come in."
I can talk to you 5 minutes face to face and get more info then I can exchanging multiple emails.
I think the internet is great for verifying a unit is in stock and setting an appointment. Other then that all you are doing is sawing saw dust.
This is really the same conversation we have on allot of things. We are not completly right or is the consumer. But I do believe we are allot closer to a middle ground now then we were say 10 years ago.
-moo
I guess is true that oil and water don't really mix.
You quoted my question, but you didn't answer it.
You question was a rhetorical one.
I guess it's fun to paint that picture, but that's a bit stereotypical. I can name a number of other industries that have made life much more difficult for the country than dealerships. (i.e. unscrupulous mortgage brokers)
I don't think the car sales is stereotypical at all, more like prototypical, even today. I read the story on Edmunds.com when the guy went undercover as car salesmen, sorry but its still the same way.
Though there is obviously a trend moving towards internet, you still need to come into the dealership to pick up your vehicle.
So deal with it, face the facts that the customers, thanks to internet, are getting smarter when it comes to car shopping.
Let's steer away from the 1980's stereotypes and discuss the matter at hand. Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying.
Better yet, lets steer away from the traditonal car buying all together. At least until laws can be put in place to better protect the consumer. At least in the Mortage industry (you're right though, snakes there as well) there is a 3 day cooling off period. So that if you are pressured into signing some papers, you have 3 days to review them and change your mind. There is no 3 day cooling off period with car purchases, so once you get fleeced its all over. Fleecing usually happens via the traditonal car buying way and that is why some of the gatekeepers of the traditional way prefer that method as opposed to the internet.
Thanks for helping with the discussion and not hindering it.
-moo
You're welcome.
Plus the $700 Doc fee of course. And all cars are VIN etched for $399. And all come with Mop & Slop protection package for $899. Sorry they all come that way from the factory, right?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
On your statement below:
Car dealers have no one to blame for this trend but themselves. After decades of fleecing poor consumers out of their hard money, thanks to the internet, the tables are turning.
We still make money. If you buy a car we make money. I made 10k already and the month is not over. I made 165K last year selling cars. WE ARE IN THE BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. WE DONT COME TO WORK EVERYDAY WEARING EXPENSIVE SUITES FOR OUR HEALTH.
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It takes a lot longer then ten min. with an internet lead. They are usually the pickiest customer to deal with. They want all the service but dont want to pay for it. With a walk in you spen just a much time and make 4 times or more the money.
Making money is fine. We the consumer make money too or else we couldn't purchase your cars. However there is a difference between making an honest living and fleecing people. The days of "fleecing" consumers are coming to an end.
Also
Pimps, Drug Dealers, Politicians, and con-artist of many stripes make lots of money (some of them make millions) and wear expensive suit as well, big deal!
Sounds like you got ripped off on a dea. Let me tell you something, a good or bad deal is all perceptions. I sell cars all the time and I don't rip people off. I make a fair deal and I let them know I am going to make money on this deal. I come to work to make money. There are certain customer that get all the discounts in the world and still feel they got ripped off. Even if you give them the car for free, they would still feel ripped off knowing that they will have to put gas in the car. There are the other customer that feel that they just want a fair deal for them and the dealership.
It sounds like your the 2% that are never satisfied with the purchase and feel they could have saved an extra penny somewhere. I've seen post on here that customers have walked out for $20.00 dollars out the door and still ask if this is a good deal.
That's my 2cents.
Shirley1539
I guess I am trying to look at things both from the customer's perspective AND the owner's point of view. I think in the long run, customers are going to be doing internet deals more, and dealership owners, as a result, are going to have to embrace the internet more to satisfy this demand. I guess there might be some unhappy salespeople like yourself. However, it's really the owner's that are calling the shots.
If a business owner finds that he or she is losing a lot of sales to a rival dealership because their internet department is below par, that owner is going to upgrade their internet department to compete. If that means that the salespeople aren't going to make as much commission, then most owners aren't going to care. On the contrary, many dealerships owners will probably welcome more online sales, since that means that they can lower their overhead (less showroom space, etc).
Maybe today dealerships can still compete without a good internet department or a good web site. However, as I pointed out, the generation behind mine might not be as tolerant of those things.
Buying and selling cars is different from most internet commerce.
In most dealerships, 70-80% of the sales still comes from walk in traffic.
While they may use the internet for research, they still come in to see and drive the cars and negotiate face to face. Please do not make the mistake of assuming that because the internet may be YOUR preferred way of buying a car,tyhat everyone else feels the same way.
Actually, I have never bought a car over the internet. I am definitely "old school" in that regard. I grew up in a time where email and the like were not very prevalent, so negotiations in person are more my style.
I think we are getting to the crux of the matter here, though. You are probably right in that the majority of car sales are done face-to-face today [Note the emphasis on today]. However, my opinion is that, over the next decade, the consumers of tomorrow will do more negotiaions online rather than face to face. If this comes to pass, dealerships will have to adapt or go out of business. That is just the nature of business. Nothing personal...
Yes, but I've done a lot more than just have this exchange over the past few days. I've eating several meals, put it a full days work, tucked in my kids, did a few loads of laundry, etc, etc. All told, I probably have only spent about 1-2 hours on this over the past few days!!
I'm brand new to this forum and found this thread very interesting because I am one of those internet shoppers. I thought I'd share with you my experience today. I did my homework and knew exactly what I wanted. I sent a polite email of exactly what I'm looking for to 15 dealerships listed. I asked for the best price without adding in incentives and also asked for any other costs that are associated with the deal. I also listed what I believed to be all of the current incentives allowable to me and asked them to confirm their availability. I was very specific in asking for prompt and concise replies via email so I can make a decision within 24 hours. I explained that I was in meetings for the majority of the day and asked all information be emailed to me so I could view them on my Blackberry while in the meeting and do a little "work" on this while in the meeting. I let them know that I would NOT be able to answer phone calls while in the meeting so email only would be my preferred contact method.
Here's what I ended up with: Out of the 15... this was my experience:
- I got 3 dealers that simply called me on the phone (exactly what I politely asked them NOT to do). They left a message asking me to return their call so that they could "clarify" what I was looking for or to "further discuss" what I was looking for. I was so unbelievably specific that there was no "clarification or further discussion" needed. If they had any respect for the way I asked to work with them they could have easily emailed me their questions and I would have emailed them right back. There was no question in my mind that it was obvious they wanted to do it "their way" not the way I had asked them to work with me. In my book ... they don't deserve my business.
- I got 2 other dealers that called me and didn't even bother to pretend they were trying to meet my needs ... they just left a message that they can get me the information that I need and that they'll need me to call them so they can discuss it with me over the phone.
- I had 1 that said they could give me the information but only if I came into the dealership "ready to buy" (is telling them that you'll be buying in 24 hours not "ready" enough for them?).
- I got 2 dealers that emailed me that they will get back to me promptly (but as of 8pm this evening ... I still have not heard from them ... even though I wanted to make a decision about this today and I emailed my request over 12 hours ago).
- I got 3 dealers that never responded at all
- Now for the GOOD part ... I got 4 dealers that responded and I've been in conversation with 3 of them throughout the day today. They emailed me promptly and they broke their prices down and even offered their thoughts on other incentives that might work for me. They didn't get me all of the information I asked for and I had to email them asking for the add'l info ... but for the most part they tried.
There was only ONE dealer that gave me EVERTHING I needed in exactly the format I asked (they broke it out as MSRP versus what they could offer to me, confirmed the current incentives I asked about and actually made me aware of another, gave me the add'l fees their dealership would charge (title and processing fees) and then based on the final figure, they quoted me what my new monthly lease price woud be.
The others 3 dealers above I emailed back and forth as I tried as to pull information from them and reiterate exactly what I needed from them. Some offered me vehicles with add'l options that I didn't need or want ... but they at least utilized email and through a series of emails (about 3-4 seemed to finalize each one) ... they were able to finally get me mostly of what I needed to make a decision.
I am now looking at all of the quotes and will be making my decision this evening. First thing in the morning I will call the dealership to set up a time to come in and finalize this purchase. All of the quotes are quite close ... but I believe that the salesperson that I will be selecting will be the one who sent me over everything I needed in the fashion in which I asked for it. This salesperson seemed to be the person most attuned to delivering to me exactly what I asked for and even stated in their email that they believed in being respectful of my time and in getting me what I needed in a timely manner. This person's quote was NOT the lowest ... but the lowest wasn't the bottom line for me. I wanted to work with a salesperson who earned my business, my trust and my respect as well.
Sorry ... this is a LONG read but I wanted to show the "other side" of those of us who are "Internet Buyers". Some of us are not looking to waste your time but more so to save ourselves some time. We truly WANT to buy in this manner and want a quick and easy way to work with a salesperson ... not to try to knock you down to bottom of the barrel price ... but to just make it an easier way to purchase.
Yes, I did take up the time of a total of 4 salespeople today as they responded back and forth to me ... but most of the back and forth emails were unnecessary if they had simply sent me over the details I had initially asked for. For the one salesperson that did ... she only sent me one email ... the one that contained all of the information I asked for initially. (oh ... and yes ... it was a female salesperson which I find ironic because that had no factor in my decision). To me the fact that she was female had no factor in my choice, but I do wonder if maybe because she was a female she was more respectful of another female's time ... or that she was more attuned into the details as I know some women can be. I don't know ... I simply know she did her job well ... and she earned my business.
In closing I will also mention that my profession is that I'm a Realtor ... so I DO know how it is on the other end with working with the public. I'm a salesperson ... I know some people have no respect for me or my time ... but there are also a lot of great people out there too really wanting my help. I've learned that when I focus on people who come to me seeking help and I focus on their needs and make sure they have the information they request in timely manner ... that I earn their loyalty. And because I do this ... I make a good living and enjoy what I do.
I hope my experience today was helpful to you. I do feel that sometimes just taking that "extra step" for someone can turn an "internet lead" into a very satisfied customer. I also work by referral and try to refer my friends to good salespeople. So this salesperson will more than likely see future business from my friends and business acquaintances.
Enjoy your evening everyone ... :shades:
I'm guessing you have as well. When blood is drawn, nothing is said, but you should know that several of us read, understand & sign on.
Thanks for the report & a "well done" for getting what you asked for (well, we hope so -- it's not over till the fat lady sings, and it sounds like she's not going to get the opportunity until tomorrow).
Quite some time ago we were told where I work that Total Quality involves satisfying the customer as the number one objective. Internet quotations satisfy an increasing number of customers. There appear to be many stores that hope the Internet will go away (along with those pesky customers who use it). My put is that the trend is toward that one response you got from someone who could read and write, and that nearly all those in the business who post here wish it were otherwise.
If you want to see a real hornet's nest stirred up, I could do my riff on direct custom orders to the factory with no dealer involvement; the Internet makes it a piece of cake. It's not pretty.
Keep us (or at least me) posted. Good luck.
Nope, I'm just a hard working person trying to make a honest living. What I despise are deceitful liars, which unforunately, the car selling industry is filled with those types. It seems to me that a truthful and honest person won't do very well in that industry.
The Edmunds undercover salesman story was horrorfying, just terrible. Words can't discribe my disdain for what that story said goes on in car dealerships, just reprehensible and repugnant.
If I owned a dealership, I would name it the "The First Honest Car Dealership". Where "truth" is our motto. If I was to find any of my sales people lying, they would be fired on the spot. Not even little "white lies" would be acceptable.
Of course I would quickly go out of business right?
I think your just bitter. Try going to Mcdonalds and ask them to give you invoice on a Big Mac.
I am not discounting the importance of e-leads, just saying in the real world they are not nearly what those not in the biz percieve them to be by the way they do business.
However, I've believed that the professionals who post here are mostly salespeople, as opposed to the principals or other senior management types who would make the policies to which Mr. Farmer refers.
If the fu *hits. . .
Similarly, I know exactly what lease parameters I want, finance/lease structure, exact vehicle, and options. What I'm willing to take in addition to my requested vehicle and what options I will not buy/lease without....oh and no trade. I make this easy
And again, I've found similar success, where I contact several dealers which I'm willing to travel to and there's always one or two that answer the call respectfully and with specific information. Those are the dealers I'll continue to buy from.
I agree. So why do they lie. Please don't try to tell me they don't. Oh btw, being deceitful is the same as lying.
Also, if I could by a new car for the price of a Big mac, I wouldn't ask car dealers for invoice price.