Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

whzrd · September 2004

thanks, carman still tyring to wait for end of year deals.

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2004

No problem, whzrd. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers Message Board

epi321 · February 2005

I've spent the past few days reading this discussion but did not see an exact answer to a question I had. I'm looking for a 4Runner Lmt., V8 4x4, with Navi in the Houston area. The websites of local dealers indicate there are 1 of these 'Available', not 'In Stock', and I don't like some of the options on it. I'm assuming I'll have to special order it to get the options I want.

I'm curious if an Internet Manager (or floor salesman, for that matter) would be willing to give me as good of a price on a special order as they would on a vehicle they had in stock? If not, how much of a difference should I expect?

Thanks!!!

cadillacmike · February 2005

"Going through the internet doesn't automatically get you a lower price. I would deal with a salesperson you feel comfortable with. "

Well said. And it's true, I got a better deal with me usual salesman than the internet person at the same dealership.

cadillacmike · February 2005

"If this sounds like too much work to you (it does to me), instead figure out the max you're willing to pay for the car out-the-door (OTD) (including everything - tax, registration, doc fees, whatever). You can do this by looking at invoice and TMV and talking to people on the forums. Go to your nearest (or favorite) dealer and offer a few hundred less than that OTD. Go back and forth once (your offer, counter-offer, last offer). If the price you end up at is at or less than your max, buy the car. 10-15 minutes time spent on negotiating. "

Woah there...

Edmunds TMV DOES NOT INCLUDE STATE SALES TAXES. Go ahead and offer 200 less than TMV as a total OTD price on a 36,000 car with state sales tax being anywhere from 1,800 -4,000 depending on where you live and watch the dealers try to not bust out laughing. I'm not overly fond os most dealers, but you've got to hav your numbers straight.

BTW, Why do we have an internet forum with a topic on internet sales and the line goes literally dead for 6 months, everybody out on vacation???

mirth · February 2005

I did not mean use TMV as the OTD, nor did I say that. I meant take it and add in the tax, reg, etc, as I stated.

epi321 - You should be able to get just as good a deal on an ordered car, but your salesperson won't be as enthusiastic about it for a number of reasons:

1. Doesn't help them get rid of their inventory.
2. They have no control over how long it takes an ordered car to get in. So if they tell you it will take around 30 days, and it ends up taking 60, they'll probably end up with an agitated customer (you) calling them every other day and then maybe trashing them on the survey.
3. If the car doesn't exist anywhere, there may well be a reason for it - no one else wants that particular option combo. So if they order it and you decide not to buy at the last minute, then they're stuck with a car no one wants. Don't get me wrong - you should buy what you want. But it might be worth spending an extra $300 on options that will make it easier to sell, and garner a better price, when you do decide to get rid of it.

cadillacmike · February 2005

OK, we just clarified your meaning and intent.

As clarified, you have a quick way of getting through the oft convoluted process. Good luck.

purplebug · February 2005

First post so be gentle...

I have had my car for 12 yrs and believe it is time for a new one. I was screwed when I originally bought the care, but I think I more than got my money's worth after 12 yrs. I hope to purchase a new car in August 2005. I know exactly what I want, and think that I know what I want to pay. The issue becomes that I want a very unique color. I plan to keep the new car another 12 yrs, but I do not want to be screwed like last time. I anticipate that no one will have the color that I want, and considering the amount of money I plan on spending (which I really don't enjoy doing), I plan on getting exactly what I want. Given this situation, would it be better to do traditional, or internet? As a woman, I do not want to deal with a chauvinist; as a person who is really comfortable in sweats and a baseball cap: I do not want a sales person to make assumptions about me and my life. Thanks in advance for the advice.

mirth · February 2005

purplebug - is the color purple? lol

Since you've already shown us you have the discipline to keep a car 12 yrs, definitely get exactly what you want, even if it's unusual, since resale is not going to be a big issue. Since you know what you want to pay and you're probably going to have to order it, or at least have a dealer trade done, then I recommend going to the dealer in person. Don't spend more that 15-20 minutes with them - they'll either meet your price or not. But if they do you'll probably have to be there to go through the additional rigamarole of ordering a car, if only to make sure they get it right.

danf1 · February 2005

Be careful about waiting until the very end of the model year as selection will definitely be limited. If you are not flexible on color, options, etc... then you should start looking earlier. At the end of the year whatever is left on a lot is typically what everyone else throughout the year did not want. The deals are better, but the options become limited.

purplebug · February 2005

Yes, purple is the color; not too many of those on the lot are there?

Only on thing, I THINK I know what I want to pay. I'm pretty sure that I am in the ballpark: looked at TMV, know the rebates, know that it will have to be ordered, but still not certain on $. I don't always handle negotiations well. When I was looking for new windows, one man wanted to get into a shouting match with me, IN MY OWN HOME, that did not end well...for him. Another assumed that I was a single mother because I sat down with him by myself. Yet, there were no obvious hints that children were in the house, i.e. toys, baby clothes, pictures of children. He didn't get my business either. I cannot ask family for advice because most of my family hasn't bought a car in 8-10 yrs and two of them were with me when I got screwed the first time. HAHA. SO you think that I should still do the in person thing?

kyfdx · February 2005

If you only buy a car every 12 years, I'd suggest taking someone knowlegeable with you... Got any friends?

purplebug · February 2005

None that aren't male that I want to know about my finances. Besides whenever I go out with the guys for shopping: electronics, home improvements, either the salesperson spends the whole time talking to them (which pisses me off), or I know more than them.

mirth · February 2005

Well, I personally think windows and siding salespeople are the ones who really deserve the rep that car salespeople have, but that's just me. ;-)

Seriously though, I think you should go to the dealer. They'll likely have better manners than you think, and will take you more seriously than if they got an email request on an "oddball" car. If they do fufill your worst expectations, go to another dealer. But if not, I think it'll be less work for you in the end then to try and convince them you're serious over email.

explorerx4 · February 2005

to me, you are looking to buy a car in 6 months and it's too early to get hung up on tmv, rebates, etc...
in june, start checking the dealer inventories for the car you want and do your online research. maybe they will have one. if it's purple, it may still be there in a couple of months.

if not do the build and price, and ask for quotes from several dealers. one thing, august is the end of the model year, so you my end up getting an '06 if it is ordered.
if they give you a quote, it's a appropriate time to call them and ask for an out the door price, and tell them you are will put down a deposit, refundable in writing, if something unforeseen happens. some dealers are more willing to work with internet offers, than others.
you can always contact a sales rep at any time for a face to face.

bobst · February 2005

Who makes a purple car?

mikefm58 · February 2005

You might want to call the dealership and ask for the internet sales person and work directly with them over the phone or email. There's typically less "BS" with them because they know they're working with someone who knows how to use the internet to their advantage. I bought two Toyotas last year from the same guy that way, very easy transactions on both ends.

purplebug · February 2005

Actually, the car is labeled a Dark Plum; I call that purple. Chrysler PT Cruiser.

I believe I will go to one car dealership in particular. I will give him first try, ( I took the test drive there and really enjoyed the experience). If he cannot work with me, then I will do the internet.

Thank you all for the advice.

mirth · February 2005

Good luck! Don't forget to let us know how it went.

stickguy · February 2005

starting early is a good idea. You are more likely to get a bad deal if you are under the gun. The best option you have in the negotiations (the ultimate weapon) is your feet, heading out the door.

This site will help you get plenty of ideas for a reasonable price to offer. Sort them out, and you should have a good target. Go to your preferred dealer, tell them exactly what you want (without talking $$), and see how easy it is to get (in stock/easy dealer trade/factory order).

If you are comfortable with the timeline (and the dealership), ask for a price and see what they come out with. You can easily counter with what you have pre-determined that you want to pay. Be civil, explain that you feel your research was valid, and that if they can't do it, you will go visit the next dealer down the road.

Most likely, if you are offering a legitimate price, they will take it to avoid losing you to the compitition.

One thing that I would recommend for a "newbie" is to step back before you commit. If you aren't 100% comfortable that everything is what it should be, feel free to tell the dealer that you like the terms, but want to review everything overnight. That gives you a chance to look things over unemotionally, without the pressure of the salespeople.

IMO, if they won't give you overnight to ponder, it either isn't a legit deal, or you don't want to work with them anyway. Of course, the dealer really wants you to sign on the spot, even if it is a totally legit deal, mostly so you don't go down the street to shop their price.

danf1 · March 2005

Good points, but don't go out on the last day of the month expecting any dealer to not push a little about thinking overnight. Incentives change monthly, and contrary to popular belief, we usually have no clue as to what the rebate or financing will be next month.

wlbrown9 · March 2005

I did a quick check of inventory in Memphis...one dealer shows 6 PTs... one is Dark Blue, the other 5 are Dark Plum. The must be basic equiped...$15,820 is the sticker on all of them. One other in Memphis showed to list at $19,000 something..I think it was a Limited. You might be able to check the inventory in your local area to see if there is anything you want. www dot chrylser dot com and then choose the Inventory Search option down at the bottom left...might save you some time. You can also pull up a copy of the Window Sticker on those showing in inventory to see what equipment is listed. Not sure if ALL Chrysler dealers participate in this though.

Bill

purplebug · March 2005

Unfortunately, purple is not as abundant in NJ. I have already checked dealerships' inventory via internet and the closest they come to my color is Electric Blue, which I could deal with also if it saves me $1,000. But again, since I plan on having my new baby for a looooooonnnnnngggggg time, I REALLY REALLY want the purple.

Oh, and I want a PT GT (say that fast 3 times).

cadillacmike · March 2005

In July or August. They'll all be busy re-tooling for 2006, and if they decide to delete the purple color for 2006, then you'll be SOL.

If I was you, I'd order in may or VERY early June, if you can't find your color in stock somewhere.

And yes mfrs will cancel colors for no apparent reason, Ford killed off a nice blue color a few years ago, replaced it with a too dark blue for me. Mazda killed of a nice blue color in 2002 also. Buick (all of GM) killed oy my very well liked dark jadestone metallic all of a sudden too, so I saw it happen with multiple mfrs.

Now we won't go into why you want to get a ps cruiser, have you seen how they shoe-horned the engine into that car? Service is going to be a NIGHTMARE! And we all know how well built chhryslers are so that they NEVER require any service.

thenebean · April 2005

yeah - nissan has already said no more orders for 2005. so if you haven't bought yet (and its been a while since that last post) you may want to make your purchase soon!

good luck!

-thene

purplebug · April 2005

:confuse:

Don't tell me that!!! I'm not ready!!! I was going next month May, as I was advised to do. There has been consistent rumors that they are going to due some modifications to the 2006 model, but I haven't been able to find out any concrete info. Does anybody know if they have stopped productions on the 2005 PT GTs? :sick:

passat69 · April 2005

Can anyone share their experiences (good and bad) using Costco new car buying program? I'd like to know if this method can result in a better price (and less hassle) as opposed to negotiating via internet or negotiating in person at the dealership. Also, if there are any car salespeople out there, I'd appreciate your comments about the Costco car buying program. Thanks much.

isellhondas · April 2005

We were the local Costco store for years and gave it up. Just gives the shopper a price to go shop. I've never seen a Costco deal I couldn't beat.

bobst · April 2005

Even if you have never seen a Costco deal you couldn't beat, a customer would have to actually sit down with you and negotiate to get your lower price.

Well, some people don't like to negotiate with car sales people. They would rather take a decent price from Carsdirect or Costco and pay that amount. Sure, that will cost them a few hundred dollars more, but it removes the stress of car buying.

By the way, I can recall asking a salesman for his price twice. One time I got no answer, and the other time I got a very high figure.

When I made internet requests for an Accord in March, I got three very competitive prices the next day. No hassle at all. The internet is the way to go.

mirth · April 2005

Two things to consider about the Costco program:

1. You could likely negotiate a better price yourself.
2. There's actually a limited list of makes/models covered by it (I think basically only the local dealers in the program, and only the models they'll allow). It's a big list, but you probably won't be buying a BMW through it.

If you can live with those two points and love the lack of negotiation, then it's fine.

thenebean · April 2005

i am the internet manager at my store (and its a small store) and I am curious about any of you who have used any sort of instant messaging or live chat with a dealer/salesperson? I am not sure how often it is available on dealer sites - but I am trying to look at new ideas that i can put on the table to get this internet department of one (like army of one!) to grow and find a new way to reach customers. Would any of you like the idea of instant messaging with a salesperson/internet manager? Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated!

Thanks a bunch!

-thene

rowlandj · April 2005

I have used email quite a lot in communication and purchases. Personally I think the initial contacts via email would be best and the IM once the emails have established a dialog. I could see that working.

Some issues I could see is people expect 'instant' feedback so if manning the desk or volume of messages would be a concern you would have to watch out for that. I think the emails do not give that sense of urgency for a reply like the other methods you describe.

Not a bad idea but folks should know what to expect if they start to use it.

Best of luck,

JR

mikefm58 · April 2005

I worked with the internet salesman at the Toyota dealership when I bought two vehicles through him last year and used email extensively for questions and when I made my decision and was ready to go in, I phoned him. I don't think I'd use IM, simply because it would be difficult for him to carry on a chat with several customers at once and I'd want his undivided attention. Also, to me, it's easier to pick up the phone and call rather than type.

isellhondas · April 2005

What happened to the TELEPHONE ?

Just seems sooooo much easier!

thenebean · April 2005

i like the telephone too - i'm just wondering, for the people who really dont like the telephone if using IM would ease fear a little - again, i am just throwing ideas out there to see if i should look into it or not. if its something that consumers would find useful. anything i can come up with to give me a bit of an edge, you know?

anyways, any other comments or ideas would be great - thanks!

-thene :shades:

rowlandj · April 2005

From my point of view I prefer the electronic communication until I have narrowed things down to the minor points of a deal. It gives me time to consider my options, think about the bigger points and also provides a paper trail should here be any 'confusion' about what was or was not said.

Once we are within striking distance of the deal then any method is fine but the other communications make for a more pleasant transaction up to that point.

JR

mirth · April 2005

Well, some people might be afraid that if they give their IM id to a pushy salesperson, that they're going to continually get bombarded with sales pitches whenever they fire up IM. With email, there's better spam management.

bobst · April 2005

Well, the phone may seem easier to you, but not to me. To get prices from six dealers, I would have to make six phone calls.

I can get six prices over the internet with only one easy Email, which I can type during the commercials while we watch Survivor.

bobst · April 2005

Thene, I usually don't like new things, so I may not be the best person to comment on your IM idea.

Having said that, I think the IM idea is bad. From my limited experience, working thru Emails is wonderful.

Maybe you could advertise to encourage more people to send you Emails. Maybe change your Email to a very simple name and give it over the radio. Advertise that you respond very quickly and give straight answers.

Look at the website for your dealership. Does the Email address jump out at you? It should.

Sit down with a friend and have them look at your website to see what they think of it. They may see problems that you would never notice. For example, is the inventory easy to access and is it up to date? That is very important to buyers like us who are looking for a specific type of vehicle.

thenebean · April 2005

good ideas bobst, thanks!

we are a very small dealership in rural CT - not easy to get to, not a huge advertising budget. i would LOVE if we could get ourselves on the radio, but the management here is very stuck on newspaper, newspaper, newspaper. just recently have they started opening themselves up to the idea of internet - so i am trying to find out what consumers are looking for, so i can present it to them! (all the lead management systems and sales trainers tell you what you want to hear, but its nothing like how consumers actually work!)

to answer the issue with IM and spam blocking - most if not all messaging programs allow you to block names. its very simple too! i just think its a faster more convenient and real time way to converse with people who may not be comfortable with the phone as of yet.

keep the thoughts coming - what would be your ideal way to purchase a car, and how would everyone act and work?

thanks!

-thene

rowlandj · April 2005

What type of line are you sellin?. The need and preference for email would vary depending on the target audience. Not to be 'snooty' but the higher the line the more likely the emails are going to work as 'office types' are more used to dealing with email in general. Their access to it is during regular hours and often they are on-line for the entire day.

JR

dglozman · April 2005

Since I'm not sure what Make your dealership selling, and since recently I was trying to buy a car using dealers website, I would suggest you to list not just a car and a price, but detail description (all options) If its Honda or Acura its easy (type of transmission and trim level), is its other models then you have to be specific. When I bought my CR-V in 2002 I found that car on dealer site that listed trim level , type of transmission and SELLING price (not MSRP or " call for our low price") And they listed all fees they charges (doc fees , add fees.. etc) so I knew exactly what they offer to the penny.
But when we looked at Hyundai Elantra this year, dealers sites were useless. Their inventory descriptions were like Hyundai Elantra GLS A/T, silver, list of standard equipment and (my favorite) Call for a price. Thats it! No package level, no specific options, no fees they charge, not even a price! So it was almost no point to have their inventory online. And it was not on one site only, it was on every Hyundai dealer site in NYC area.

Kirstie_H · April 2005

Same advice here - what will get me to go from web page browsing to a dealership visit is complete info on the website. A few years ago, I bought a used vehicle after doing most of my shopping on-line. I found a dealership that had the used vehicle I wanted listed on the website, with all options, and best of all, a PRICE. I called the dealership to verify that they still had the vehicle, then went down & bought it within the hour. I would not have bothered if the description had been vague or if the price hadn't been listed. (obviously, I would have left immediately if I'd gone down and gotten the whole, "gee, we just sold that car 10 minutes ago" song and dance)

At the time, I was working full time at a place where extensive time on the phone wouldn't have been acceptable. I had to do my research in the evening, mostly late after kids went to bed, and when dealerships were closed and I couldn't call. Having complete information provided on the website was a HUGE plus and really helped me determine what I could get in my price range. I was so thrilled with the time the dealership saved me by including the price that I didn't bother haggling once I got there.

kyfdx · April 2005

But, here is the website of a local used car dealership.. Click on the view inventory button to see the whole inventory, then click on an individual car for the description..

This is how used cars should be listed on a website.. that is, if you really want to sell them.

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dda/index.jsp?dealership_view_name=www.rallye-motors.com-

Kirstie_H · April 2005

As a consumer, that is the ideal way to list used vehicles. ALL of the information I need is right there in front of me, including the VIN to pull a carfax report. If a car I was interested in was listed, and was in my price shopping range, I'd be on the phone ASAP. That way, when I arrive at the dealership, I'm a serious shopper and not wasting my time or the salesperson's time.

thenebean, I think it's great that you are looking for ways to meet the buyers where they are most comfortable. It's seems a lot easier for a dealership to change than to try and change the thousands of potential customers.

thenebean · April 2005

kirstie,

thanks! it drives me nuts that all the people who came before me unfortunately gave everyone in the business a bad rap. i know from where i work, and the people on here, that there are some of us who are trying to change that reputation. it wont be easy, but i treat a customer the way i would want to be treated -respectfully, honestly, and without pressure. as far as internet goes - i get a lot of emails that i respond to (with a price no less) that never respond in return - for anything! keep in mind all you consumers out there - if you send a mass email out to 20 dealers, and pick one to buy from, let the rest of us know with a quick email. that way, the salesperson isnt bothering you for the next few weeks with emails!

the people that get back to me saying they bought elsewhere or are no longer in the market always get a thank you note - i appreciate those who take a minute just to let me know they are not interested in buying a car anymore.

any other ideas? what would be your ultimate experience in buying a car (via internet or otherwise)

thanks!

-thene

rowlandj · April 2005

Get a good price, get the paperwork in the form of a PDF file I can review. I will then know what I am signing when I get to the store. Get one person to see when I get there to finalize delivery and know there will be no after-sales activity. Essentially it would be nice to just show up, spend a bit of time on paperwork and drive off.

What makes this next to impossible is the ever-present trade-in and I am afraid that is where all this nice and clean stuff breaks down. For a lease it is totally possible to make it clean and simple but for some transactions it is not possible and that's where it gets difficult.

I think it could be possible to do half the business in a clean manner and the rest would just be more 'interactive' by necessity.

JR

bobst · April 2005

Once you have sent an Email price to a potential customer, don't contact him again either by phone or by Email. If he is interested, he will contact you.

isellhondas · April 2005

Trouble is, everyone just wants a price to go shop. I just love it when antoher store gives someone a price in writing! I have literally taken sales away from other stores for a lousy fifty dollars!

I had a woman drive two hours the other day because I was willing to knock 100.00 off of her internet "bid". She even told me how much she liked that other salesman and how she had spent two Saturdays with him driving cars, etc.

I had no respect for that woman and I really hope she feels good about herself. I did not enjoy selling her that car.

I treat my customers well too. After ten years, most of my customers are repeat and referrals.

Giving a shopper a price in writing is the quickest way to lose a sale! It just amazes me what some people will put themselves through to "save" a lousy dollar!

rowlandj · April 2005

I hear that, but getting a price from the seller is always the way I conduct a transaction since they want to sell and should be able to tell me at what price they will do so. I have done my homework and know what's fair. A good deal is fair to both parties, otherwise there is no deal.

I know the risks you describe are very real but I think in the longer term the business that would come from making this as simple as possible will compensate.

JR

Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy