Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Why people keep comparing a 5.7 litre engine with ~3.0 litre engine? $50k VS $30-40k? What about the 3.6 CTS-V which is more makes sense.
There is always something that we dont like either its about the look, reliability, performance, luxury etc. For 50k I would go with Lexus/BMW and maybe the future model of RL (need to see it first thou). Its a blunt attempt to make a car with performance only without considering other aspects.
As a passionate car lover I'm speaking from a purely emotional level. I feel the same way about Steven Spielberg, Microsoft, McDonald's and a host of other franchises/companies that represent qualities I dislike.
Of course on a business school, bottom-line side I totaly understand the economic ramifications created by voiding any of these moneymakers. The ardent capitalist side screams, "Make money any way you can. Sell them a box of rocks fro $1000 and call it Mars' Diamonds."
The cold, business school trained analytical side tends to scare more people than the emotional side. If I could stamp out substandard products at half the cost of my competitors and lure more people into buying my products for multi billion dollar profits I would.
Back to our regularly scheduled program: Squabbling about the performance of a 50k "entry level" luxury sedan.
Please get back to the cars, and again, let's keep our conversation relevant to our subject.
I would really appreciate that.
As a point of reference, I drive a 2002 530i 5-Speed with enough extra goodies to have brought the MSRP up to nearly $49,000. That said, I got a good deal and did the European Delivery thing which resulted in a final price of just south of $43,000. That of course does not count the cost of the European trip, but I would have taken it anyway (and rented a car while I was there).
From my point of view, my car completely meets my needs, wants and desires. It's fun to drive, economical (31 mpg on the highway), reliable (two years old and no unscheduled trips to the dealership), good looking inside and out, luxurious, certainly fast enough to get my attention, and capable enough to deal with it's power and ability to go fast. What do I mean by that last bit? On the autobahn during my ED trip, I was tooling along at the speed limiter (128.5 mph) when a motorcycle pulled out directly in front of me doing something like 60 mph. I performed an emergency lane change (unfortunately when he saw me in the mirror he did the same, keeping him directly in my sights), and then performed what could best be described as an anchor dropping test of the brakes. At our closest we only got within two feet of each other (him under full acceleration and me in panic stop mode) so he still had a little margin for his error and as such, he lived for another day (hopefully).
Having said all of that, I have been reading here that there are certain cars of a similar price and size with bigger (if not substantially bigger) motors that are "superior" vehicles for the money. Uh-huh, right. I suppose anybody can throw a big engine in any given car and proclaim it superior to other similar cars with smaller engines, and I suppose to their way of thinking, it is. To my way of thinking, that's the easy part, and that it's the rest of the package that makes the "Upgraded" car truly superior. Would a CTS-V for instance, have acquitted itself as perfectly as my 530i did in the above situation? Unknown, but I suspect that the CTS-V is likely to have a much greater front end weight bias, and as such would not have been able to perform the lane change and the deceleration without hitting the individual on the bike after his ill advised maneuver.
Balance, that's what the BMW offers, and yes, on paper it will certainly cost more for what you seem to get. So, if I had it to do all over again, and if I was faced with the choice of a CTS-V or my 530i for about the same price, what would I choose? Probably the BMW. Call me naïve, call me dumb, call me wasteful, call me a poseur, call me whatever you like. I can live with that. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
M
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FO- LDER%3C%3Efolder_id=402621&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=389451&- bmUID=1078983779452#largesuvs
Perhaps if you contact CR directly, they'll send their H2 problem findings...in a truck.
M
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Regarding my comment about another car acquitting itself as well as my car did in the situation I found myself in, you will notice that I was referring a (presumably) nose heavy CTS-V and not the G35. I consider the G a reasonably well balanced car with very acceptable driving characteristics. To my eye however, its styling inside and out just doesn't pass muster, which I understand is simply personal preference.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Since you are commenting quite a bit about your 5 series and weight, consider this comment by C&D Mar 2004 in regards to the M5 vs. CTS-V:
"Cadillac's steering was gratifyingly precise. It turned in like Marshall Faulk cutting for the goal line, and if its weight transfer wasn't quite as smoothly managed as the M5's, there wasn't a hint of reluctance in its transient responses. The CTS-V was also perfectly happy to provide the driver with as much oversteer as he wanted. The breakaway might be a little more abrupt, but once rotation set in, it was easy enough to control with a judicious throttle foot."
As we all know, the CTS-V edged out the M5 in lap times despite the driver admittingly short-shifting due to a faulty oil pressure sensor on the CTS-V. In his best estimate, he would have beaten the M3 as well if pushing the Caddy at 100%.
Brian
Regarding the E39 M5 that was so gracefully retired, still at the top of the heap last year; I suppose that Cadillac should in all fairness be able to crow about being "King of the Hill", for a while that is. Like everything else out there, the competition does not stand still. The odds on bet is that the CTS-V will once again be considered an "Also-Ran" in a year's time or so, just like the CTS has been since it was launched.
Best Regards
Shipo
I do stand corrected on the mass, however. I thought it was much heavier than it really is.
As far as the CTSV being an "also-ran", I think it will still be held up as "the most bang for the buck" regardless. Its the same reason the Z06 does so well in comparisons with much more expensive cars. Its not that its the best, but its good enough that the reviewers would opt for it and save a bundle of money over similar vehicles.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Uh, Marshall Faulk hasn't cut smoothly in a couple years. He's basically Emmitt Smith Jr out there now.
If I remember correctly, I said, "I suspect...". Yes, no?
Best Regards,
Shipo
The guy initiated the call and all he was looking at during the race was my TLS doulble pipes.
One up for us FWD.
All else being equal (which of course it never is), the car with the better weight distribution should handle the maneuver better than the one with the front end weight bias. Would the CTS-V have acquitted itself as well? Maybe, maybe not.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I get people all the time spinning their engines and glancing at my at stoplights. The light changes and then they take off. Have fun, bud. I like to play with my car but in SD racing or giving the appearance of racing is a sure ticket. No thanks.
That said, once in awhile I'm at the front of a light, I know the two lanes become one quickly and somebody pulls up beside me doing the creep thing as they await the light change. We all know he wants to shoot out and take the lead.
When I'm feeling nice, I let it slide. Feisty...I like to let him accelerate and I keep pace for a bit as his engine screams - seems SUV drivers do this the most often. As we build speed I finally just wave and punch it. Bu-bye...
Silly people.
I just know one of these days a kid with a turbo-charged protege will smack me in the face as he scampers away faster.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The TL has turned in some extremely disappointing stops from 70-0. Was it the R&T article that listed 188 feet? The 530 certainly stops faster than that from 70 to 0. So I don't see how it stops faster than the 530.
BMW 530i 119.33 ft
Acura TL 115.96 ft or msn auto 114 ft
You dont see it while everybody else does :-)
That was the first time I floored it so fast and it was fast and scary cuz I didnt know how it would react but it turned out fine. Other car may react differently just be very careful but not mine. It could be true what chris said bcuz of the enormous power.
I dont see much TL in chicago, 2 or 3 the most since Jan 04, maybe in other part of the country. I know they would be racy bcuz of the engine power and its sound. It sounds like a soft jet engine underneath not loud but cool. Unlike my friends car its so loud.
I believe that the last interior pic is of the M35/45. And the second to last is of the Q45 or maybe the M35/45 as well. Really can't tell for sure though.
Wish I would see more of them - but know I will still be unusual when I get behind the wheel soon...
According to that, BMW will start producing the next 3 sometime this year, but the bulk of the production will start in 2005. Leads me to believe that it'll be available in the U.S. maybe mid 2005 as a 2006 model.
Car&Driver 0-60: 5.7 secs.
MotorWeek 60-0: 114 ft.
S&S mopar muscle 0-60: 5.7 secs.
Fantacy car dot com 0-60: 5.7 secs.
Car&driver 0-60: 5.7 secs.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The difference between the auto and 6MT fot the G35 is about .2 secs to 60 and .1-.2 in 1/4 mile times. That's the beauty of the G auto having the Q 5AT in it. It's not as BMW smooth, but you'll notice a big drop for the 3 auto as well. The tranny can handle 345 ++ HP so that may be the diff..who knows. Honda autos have never been a wonder of mankind...The 6sp on the other hand is perfect to shift..
'04 530i: 70 to 0 in 167 ft.
Source: C&D
2 ft isn't much. It could be the difference between a cool day and a warm one. Point is, they are competitive.
As far as the CTS-V being an also-ran, don't think that Cadillac will stick with the 400hp LS6 forever. The new LS2 will make its way over and power will go up in the next year or two.
brian
"[The CTS] was beautiful..." Especially not in California. Can't they take away a license in CA if you buy American?
The important thing is you enjoy your car. Everything else is just "My dad can beat up your dad". I find it humorous that 30+ year old professionals worry about getting beaten in a stoplight dragrace by another 30+ year old in a $30-50K car. What are we, 17 year old punks in riced out Civics and Neons?
I like my TSX, I really don't care if anyone else does. I bought it to impress me, not you.
YES! Many times, I DO turn into a 17-year-old punk when I get behind the wheel (well, 17 in attitude, 30 in experience). And I don't know many enthusiasts who aren't the same way. Even when I'm in the passenger seat with my wife driving, I'm constantly thinking "geez! how can you let that guy do that to you?!" or "awww.. come on! step on it!!"
There is no other situation in life where i act quite the same.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S