So you're saying then a Crown Victoria must be the best car for the money, since it's the biggest for the money?
Please don't put words in my mouth. Crown Vic is not a sport sedan or luxury sedan, so it is quite off-topic. A 530i is nowhere nearly as good at handling as a 330i, yet it is much more expensive. BMW sets the price of the two, not me; apparently size is a big factor in pricing. G35 and TL are much closer to 530i in vehicle utility than 330i.
Skidpad means nothing, it has to do with tires. You could get a H2 with big fat tires and it would get a better skidpad number than either of these two.
Your definition of vehicle utility is different than my definition. I could go to Country Buffet and get an all you can eat meal for $10 and walk out stuffed. Or I could go to the local 5 star star restaurant pay 5 times as much and walk out slightly hungry. Sure there is more quantity in Country Buffet, but there is more quality in the local 5 star restaurant.
For me the 330 has all the vehicle utility I need, plus it's the benchmark, and it gets great mileage to boot. If you haven't noticed there isn't one manufacturer in this topic that doesn't set price by size of their automobiles.
Oh and by the way the 530 is off-topic in this board.
Looks pretty close to me. And within the margin of error, would have to say that both cars about equal in handling per actual testing.
Skidpad means zip in terms of real world performance. A figure 8, going around cone for the slalom doesn't mean a car will be a hard core performer on a track. WOT out of a corner with a TL = in a ditch. you can't refute that.
You could get a H2 with big fat tires and it would get a better skidpad number than either of these two.
Has it been tested yet, is there any facts/numbers to this? Nope, it's only one's feeling. The H2 probably will roll over before you get a number.
Blueguy : Is there any fact that if TL going hard into a corner will always end up in a ditch. At least a statistic numbers or is it just feelings.
To each his own : "Eventhou the car does lower number in 0-60 but I feel my car is faster." "Eventhou the car does lower in skid pad number, but I feel the car has better handling" "Eventhou the car doesnt have all the features/comfort that TL has, but I feel my car has more features" "Eventhou the TL has more of a muscular looking car than the two, but I feel bla.. blla.. bla.."
It must be really hard for all TLs (for being the most wanted/popular between the 3) owner that all bimmers/G owners are gunning at TL.
Fortunately TL has numbers of facts while these two has much more of a "Feeling".
A Long time ago people used to think and feel the world was a flat surface. If one is a patient of a mental hospital, one must feel perfectly sane right?
How about slalom? TL 65.8 mph vs G35 65.0 mph. If "measured" performance in slalom is not good indicator of car's handling ability, then what is? What else is there that can be measured that one can point to for sake of discussion?
Sometimes car magazines do comparisons of car's handling by testing lap times at a race course. But, this is not part of R and T Road Test Summary in magazine each month. Maybe somebody can find a comparison test on a race course from some magazine regarding the cars in question.
Also, Road and Track, measures BMW 330 at 65.4 mph in slalom. This is less than TL, but within margin of error, or "significance of difference" of 1.0 mph that Road and Track states. So, according to Road and Track Summary data, actual "measured" handling shows G35, 330 and TL having very similar capability.
If you know nothing about cars, you can spout a lot of statistics, but still know nothing about how a car drives or feels..
In the '80s... A Renault Alliance GTA recorded a higher skidpad number than a Corvette... Tested by C&D... Because of the big fat tire set-up.. So what?
In the '80s... A Renault Alliance GTA recorded a higher skidpad number than a Corvette... Tested by C&D... Because of the big fat tire set-up.. So what?
That's a ridiculous reference.
TL, G35 and 330 all in same class of cars and we're talking here about measured handling performance in the slalom. Yes, everyone knows FWD feels different than RWD. And, I would guess that most folks on this board have driven and/or owned a lot of both types. Don't need a lecture here.
Now, even though BMW and G35 have RWD and "superior" 50/50 weight distributio, the TL with its setup of FWD still has same capability to traverse a course.
"Now, even though BMW and G35 have RWD and "superior" 50/50 weight distributio, the TL with its setup of FWD still has same capability to traverse a course."
Okay... now tell us why that is.. FWD vs. RWD.. All-season tires vs. summer tires... Why does the TL post better numbers?
The TL, like all Acuras (save for the NSX), has a very feminine look about it.
Don't see gender there.
I think that the TL has an Italian design flair to it, which is positive. When current design first came out in late 03, car magazine writers said it reminded them of an Italian style car.
The 3-series BMW through the years always looked very good from any angle. Not so for latest model. Front end is ok, but rest of car looks very generic. Kind of could pass for a Mitsubishi compact car. In fact if one covered up grille and badges and did pepsi type test, most folks might say it was a Mitsu or similar Japanese or Korean.
"I think that the TL has an Italian design flair to it,"
Thats probably true, it was definately inspired by the alfa romeo sedans which are some of the most beautiful cars on the road. But I am not sure if it quite pulls it off. I think the acura's thin headlight look leaves way too much flat empty plastic in the front. The alfa, on the other hand has a more pronounced V-shaped grill which cuts through the bumpers. So you dont get flat slabs of plastic.
I agree, but I think the V-shaped grill is the weakest part of the car's looks. In some models it's just too much, in other models it's less exagerated and looks nice. IMHO the TL pulls it off.
Looks are very subjective, but the first time I saw a TL I nearly fell down, I thought it was one of the best looking cars I have ever seen. Same thing happened to me when I saw the G35 coupe.
Looks are very subjective, but the first time I saw a TL I nearly fell down, I thought it was one of the best looking cars I have ever seen. Same thing happened to me when I saw the G35 coupe
Agree. Think that Autoweek had first spy photo of possible 04 TL in summer of 03 in front of San Fran hotel. When I saw it in Autoweek (in silver), I thought it was stunning and wouldn't it be great if it was production model. Turns out that it was production.
If Alfa was inspiration, think that TL does better interpretation. Don't care for overdone V shape of Alpha.
G35 coupe is great design. G35 sedan very good, but not knockout like TL.
Don't necessarily agree that looks are very subjective. Think that when design is so very good (Porsche 911) or very bad (Pontiac Aztek) that most people can discern these differences. It gets harder when the designs are between these extremes.
There are elements to good design. Columnist for Automobile Magazine, Cumberford, is a former auto designer and he critiques car designs in almost every issue. Check it out. Just as in building and structure architecture (Parthenon, Golden Gate, etc.), autos must have proper overall shape, details and integration to be pleasing to the eye.
There are elements to good design. Columnist for Automobile Magazine, Cumberford, is a former auto designer and he critiques car designs in almost every issue. Check it out. Just as in building and structure architecture (Parthenon, Golden Gate, etc.), autos must have proper overall shape, details and integration to be pleasing to the eye.
Okey dokey. :confuse: Totally subjective. Like art, film, food, etc...it's all in the eye of the beholder.
If Alfa was inspiration, think that TL does better interpretation. Don't care for overdone V shape of Alpha.
I agree 100%, the TL design takes the best of Italian design, and the groove of the BMW on the door, parallel to the door handles, that is just awesome. I really think they have pulled off a design miracle.
BTW, I am a native San Franciscan, and still appreciated the Golden Gate Bridge, a design brilliancy.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Guess should not have referenced Parthenon in previous post. Probably some folks don't know what it is.
Wonder what was inspiration for latest 3 series design. Know that 5 and 7 series is not entry level in this discussion, but it seems rear end on these cars was stolen from early 90's Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Cirrus and Plymouth (?) compacts.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the TL. The looks are on the okay side. And there are a lot of electronic doo-dads. And if you don't drive it very hard it drives just fine. I can see why people like it.
But it is not on the same scale as precision as some of the other vehicles in this category such as CTS, G35 and 3 series.
Automobile mag Aug 2005 had the above comparo. What they found, and no one will be surprised, was the G35 6MT is the speed demon of bunch. Yes the G35 will win the stoplight races.
However, the 330 turned in the fastest time at the track doing the laps.
As the enthusiasts who frequent this board no doubt know, it takes more than HP to make the car handle with precision around the turns.
HEY GUYS, :confuse: im a 26 years old man, and i work VERY HARD! and now i want to buy a new car "i love fast cars & toyota cars 2" so can any of u guys advise me what to buy? :confuse:
I'd assume you were referencing the broken down old building in Athens and not the Chicago restaurant that supposedly brought the gyros to the US
"Broken down old building" .... Interesting comment and maybe pretty revealing. Let's get back to merits of style/design of G35, TL, 330 and their performance attributes.
On design, what do long time followers of 3 series design and performance think about latest iteration of 3. Does 3 have still have "classic" style or is it heading toward generic? Have TL and G35 designs/styles left 3 series in dust? 3 series, except front, looks like Korean or Japanese compact. I guess that you can still have a good performing car, such as WRX, but don't have to have good styling. People will still buy it for performance, which is understandable, but will close eyes on styling. Some auto magazine writers also not so excited about new 3 style.
what do long time followers of 3 series design and performance think about latest iteration of 3
I think that the new 3 style looks more feminine. I refer to my 06 325 as “she” , like “my girl” The previous body style is sharper, more masculine. In my eyes old body style of 3 is like arrow – you look at it and it really looks fast, fast like and arrow. I guess I am just in love with bimmers:) But everything changes; bmw simply could not afford to stay behind and not to change body style while other manufactures do so. And in my opinion new style is very good, its still bmw; it’ll just take time to get used to it. TL is a VERY nice and sharp looking car. It is really a matter of preference who likes what – TL or 3. Both are awesome styles. Before I thought of buying TL, but then I said to myself – no, I’ll spent a bit more $ but get what I always wanted. But still –TL is a very sharp and fast looking car. Really distinctive design, not like other cars. G35 – sorry, in my opinion it does not look good. At least no comparison to TL or 3 styles. Drove G35 just a few days ago. Power is the only thing worth mentioning. Design –inside and exterior – far from perfect to my taste. No offence to all owners of G. Perfect engine, MUCH faster than my 325. mike
blueguydotcom.... Ehhh....the Pantheon isn't in Paris. It is in Rome. It is the great domed hall with an oculus.
As for styling...I totally selected the TL as it has similar side lines to my BMW 7 series. And there are so many sculpted edges which I only found during a wash (for instance...did you all see the trunk where there it is concave and "u" shaped?)
Also...we only have been talking today about the exterior styling. Where it excels (especially to the G35) is in the INTERIOR design and execution.
BTW...geez...where were all the TL'ers when I was getting chewed out on this forum during Friday?
As far as exterior styling goes, I used to prefer the TL to the G35, but now I prefer the G35. Maybe it's the subtle changes to the 2005 model.
The TL is a handsome vehicle, but something about it doesn't evoke a luxury feeling. Maybe it's all the creases and sharp edges. Or maybe it's a psychological thing because I know it's heavily Accord-based.
The G35 is not as pretty as the TL, but it looks more like a luxury car to me.
Now, the interior is a different story. The 2005 G35 has improved a lot, but the TL still wins hands down, except for the plasticky fake wood.
Now, the interior is a different story. The 2005 G35 has improved a lot, but the TL still wins hands down, except for the plasticky fake wood.
My wife's TL has brushed aluminum with the black interior, looks very sharp. With respect to the exterior, I think the G35 sedan exterior is nick but conservative almost boring, the coupe on the other hand the coupe looks great.
On design, what do long time followers of 3 series design and performance think about latest iteration of 3. Does 3 have still have "classic" style or is it heading toward generic?
Hmm. It's a little more bland. The sides are too slab and unbroken. The old car's thick breaking lines and bisecting angles help give the car more edge. Original e46's had the best look; the facelifted e46 lost some of the car's angle and chisel. Can't say I'm real in love with the look of my 330i. Never owned a car I found real attractive though.
Have TL and G35 designs/styles left 3 series in dust?
Well, the poor G35 also suffers from slab-side-itus. The has absolutely nothing going on really anywhere. They tried with th facelife to infuse some right angles in the front but it's the sides of the car and the tail that lack any character at all. It's far too smooth - too 1980s for me.
The TL's flying wedge design seems more Audi mixed with Alfa than the sexiness of the original Acura Legend. That car still draws my eyes every time I see one (much like the second gen integra and vigor still make me look). Can't explain it but the TL almost seems like some wacky european film set designer for a cheap sci-fi film said, "I vill make future car" and out popped the TL with its hard angles, square taillights and rectangluar exhaust ports. Long, low, wide and most spaceshippy in that dark gray color. i see it and think of Dr. Evil saying with pride, "What do you think of your quasi-futuristic [car], Mr. Powers?"
3 series, except front, looks like Korean or Japanese compact. I guess that you can still have a good performing car, such as WRX, but don't have to have good styling.
That's what drives my purchase. The exterior of the car doesn't influence my purchase. For god's sake i owned a Protege until last month.
People will still buy it for performance, which is understandable, but will close eyes on styling. Some auto magazine writers also not so excited about new 3 style.
I'm not closing my eyes. It just doesn't matter to me. I can't grasp the rancor over the GTO or the hype surrounding the Solstice. the same question comes back: "But how does it drive?" The mustang GT reminds me of the only version of the 'Stang I ever felt anything visceral for (the stocker), but the car's suspension set up and engine make me dubious of the car. Sure one can mod it to look like something out of 'Road Warrior" but how does it perform? That's the end all and be all of the equation.
blueguydotcom.... Ehhh....the Pantheon isn't in Paris. It is in Rome. It is the great domed hall with an oculus.
Oh really? Hmmm, the buidling I walked by daily for work wasn't the pantheon? So, I imagined the building, its name, and the places I noticed around it...like the odd big of graffiti in one alley written in English? all part of my delusions? Weird. It's like I'm Ed Norton and I imagined an entirely alternate reality.
The TL's flying wedge design seems more Audi mixed with Alfa than the sexiness of the original Acura Legend. That car still draws my eyes every time I see one (much like the second gen integra and vigor still make me look). Can't explain it but the TL almost seems like some wacky european film set designer for a cheap sci-fi film said, "I vill make future car" and out popped the TL with its hard angles, square taillights and rectangluar exhaust ports. Long, low, wide and most spaceshippy in that dark gray color. i see it and think of Dr. Evil saying with pride, "What do you think of your quasi-futuristic [car], Mr. Powers?"
LOL, very funny post! :P
I thought the design of the car was fantastic, and a nice departure from Japanese conservative design. It has a definite Alfa influence, as well as some BMW features. I usually don't car about the exterior look of a car, but this car knocked me out. Then I checked out what this car has to offer in performance and lux features, I found it to be the best value out there, regardless of price.
English lesson - the word pantheon has at least 5 definations, look them up. While you may have walked pass a pantheon in Paris, the Pantheon is in Rome.
"Perhaps the 3 Series has outgrown me. What was once a willing accomplice for back-road rowdiness seems all grown up. It no longer whispers, "Let's go out and risk a moving violation." It is now a perfectly pleasant, responsible companion."
"If value is the criteria, it may not match the Infiniti G35 or the Lexus IS 350, which goes on sale in October. And while no one can accuse the new 3 Series of not being fun to drive, it may no longer hold the clear edge that it once did."
Sounds like NYT isn't all that wild on 3. The battle between it and IS and next-gen G probably will be very close, too close for BMW's comfort.
However, it's amazing that BMW is still able to hold the small luxury/sport sedan crown. The fact that the competition has caught up is mostly because they are trying to implement a lot of the same ideas. Look at the last IS300. I don't think that the I-6 was a mistake.... look at the G35. Infiniti took almost an American approach, viz more horsepower. They've been trying for years and years. If they didn't start putting the heat on, then I'd be worried. It's not that the 3-Series isn't the best drive, or that it isn't the most fun, it's just that BMW got a little out of hand with the pricing. Bring it down a few K's, and they'll be raving again.
Hmm. Time for my styling critique.
3-Series: the older ones look aggressive. Kind of like they'll jump out and take a hunk out of a passerby's leg. The curvier shape of the new one looks a little blobby. Still a hell of a drive, though.
G35: suffers from what I call "lack of style": namely that it doesn't have a lot going on, especially from the side view, where it looks rather like a loaf of bread. That's the coupe. The sedan looks classier, especially in black, but still not a heart-stopper.
CTS: No comment :P
IS: Talking about the new one. It looks classy, but kind of boring. Not in a bad way, but it looks like a Lexus. Better than the G35 or CTS, but I honestly think that the TL looks better. Or rather, it's a mood thing. The TL is the wacky little sister who listens to new age, and the IS is the adult sis who listens to soft rock.
TL: a little crazy, but it works. I like the fact that Honda took a styling chance when they didn't have to. Kudos. I like the way it looks weird. This car, however, does not look as good in black as most of the others, probably since a nice silver would accentuate its creases better.
A4: The front end looks good ( I like the new grille). The back doesn't. Too boring.
I agree with almost every thing you said, but disagree with your opinion about the G35 coupe, I think it's a knock out in terms of style. I don't think it's style is as bold as the TL. Yes the G sedan is a classy looking car, but sort of too conservative for my taste. Interestingly, I think the G coupe looks great in black, but I think the TL looks great in any color, but I prefer the lighter colors.
The TL is the wacky little sister who listens to new age
Quote: On top of the montagne Ste-Geneviève, not far from the Sorbonne University and the Jardin du Luxembourg, the imposing Panthéon looks over the Quartier Latin.
That is the name of the building. The word is capitalized and everything - just as I used it.
Yes it's modeled after the Roman building: "The portico, with large Corinthian columns was modeled after the 2nd century Pantheon in Rome. " Regardless, I used the correct name and wrote it correctly. No big deal, just don't get up in my face if you don't take the time to do any research.
There are several Disney properties around the world. The decrepit one in Anaheim may have been the first but if some cat says he went to Disneyland in Japan, are you gonna flag him for it, screaming: "No, no, it's originally in California"? Man, lighten up, have a pop tart.
Comments
Please don't put words in my mouth. Crown Vic is not a sport sedan or luxury sedan, so it is quite off-topic. A 530i is nowhere nearly as good at handling as a 330i, yet it is much more expensive. BMW sets the price of the two, not me; apparently size is a big factor in pricing. G35 and TL are much closer to 530i in vehicle utility than 330i.
G35 - 0.86g, 65.0 mph"
Skidpad means nothing, it has to do with tires. You could get a H2 with big fat tires and it would get a better skidpad number than either of these two.
Your definition of vehicle utility is different than my definition. I could go to Country Buffet and get an all you can eat meal for $10 and walk out stuffed. Or I could go to the local 5 star star restaurant pay 5 times as much and walk out slightly hungry. Sure there is more quantity in Country Buffet, but there is more quality in the local 5 star restaurant.
For me the 330 has all the vehicle utility I need, plus it's the benchmark, and it gets great mileage to boot. If you haven't noticed there isn't one manufacturer in this topic that doesn't set price by size of their automobiles.
Oh and by the way the 530 is off-topic in this board.
G35 - 0.86g, 65.0 mph
Looks pretty close to me. And within the margin of error, would have to say that both cars about equal in handling per actual testing.
Skidpad means zip in terms of real world performance. A figure 8, going around cone for the slalom doesn't mean a car will be a hard core performer on a track. WOT out of a corner with a TL = in a ditch. you can't refute that.
Has it been tested yet, is there any facts/numbers to this? Nope, it's only one's feeling. The H2 probably will roll over before you get a number.
Blueguy : Is there any fact that if TL going hard into a corner will always end up in a ditch. At least a statistic numbers or is it just feelings.
To each his own :
"Eventhou the car does lower number in 0-60 but I feel my car is faster."
"Eventhou the car does lower in skid pad number, but I feel the car has better handling"
"Eventhou the car doesnt have all the features/comfort that TL has, but I feel my car has more features"
"Eventhou the TL has more of a muscular looking car than the two, but I feel bla.. blla.. bla.."
It must be really hard for all TLs (for being the most wanted/popular between the 3) owner that all bimmers/G owners are gunning at TL.
Fortunately TL has numbers of facts while these two has much more of a "Feeling".
A Long time ago people used to think and feel the world was a flat surface.
If one is a patient of a mental hospital, one must feel perfectly sane right?
G35 - 0.86g, 65.0 mph"
Skidpad means nothing, it has to do with tires.
How about slalom? TL 65.8 mph vs G35 65.0 mph. If "measured" performance in slalom is not good indicator of car's handling ability, then what is? What else is there that can be measured that one can point to for sake of discussion?
Sometimes car magazines do comparisons of car's handling by testing lap times at a race course. But, this is not part of R and T Road Test Summary in magazine each month. Maybe somebody can find a comparison test on a race course from some magazine regarding the cars in question.
Also, Road and Track, measures BMW 330 at 65.4 mph in slalom. This is less than TL, but within margin of error, or "significance of difference" of 1.0 mph that Road and Track states. So, according to Road and Track Summary data, actual "measured" handling shows G35, 330 and TL having very similar capability.
In the '80s... A Renault Alliance GTA recorded a higher skidpad number than a Corvette... Tested by C&D... Because of the big fat tire set-up.. So what?
When it comes to cars, feeling is everything...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
That's a ridiculous reference.
TL, G35 and 330 all in same class of cars and we're talking here about measured handling performance in the slalom. Yes, everyone knows FWD feels different than RWD. And, I would guess that most folks on this board have driven and/or owned a lot of both types. Don't need a lecture here.
Now, even though BMW and G35 have RWD and "superior" 50/50 weight distributio, the TL with its setup of FWD still has same capability to traverse a course.
No need to insult anyone.
Okay... now tell us why that is.. FWD vs. RWD.. All-season tires vs. summer tires... Why does the TL post better numbers?
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
FWD + WOT = torque steer. It's coming out of the corner where you're going to get smoked.
If you don't understand this, there's nothing more to say to you.
Don't see gender there.
I think that the TL has an Italian design flair to it, which is positive. When current design first came out in late 03, car magazine writers said it reminded them of an Italian style car.
The 3-series BMW through the years always looked very good from any angle. Not so for latest model. Front end is ok, but rest of car looks very generic. Kind of could pass for a Mitsubishi compact car. In fact if one covered up grille and badges and did pepsi type test, most folks might say it was a Mitsu or similar Japanese or Korean.
Thats probably true, it was definately inspired by the alfa romeo sedans which are some of the most beautiful cars on the road. But I am not sure if it quite pulls it off. I think the acura's thin headlight look leaves way too much flat empty plastic in the front. The alfa, on the other hand has a more pronounced V-shaped grill which cuts through the bumpers. So you dont get flat slabs of plastic.
http://users.skynet.be/alfaromeo/frame-2.html
http://www.fast-autos.net/acura/tl13.html
and
http://users.skynet.be/alfaromeo/frame-2.html
http://www.fast-autos.net/acura/tl26.html
I personally like the g coupe's styling although it could have done without the "corporate look" rear end.
Look are subjective and have nothing to do with the way the car drives. Edmunds for one found it impeccable. Read the Edmunds first looks.
Agree. Think that Autoweek had first spy photo of possible 04 TL in summer of 03 in front of San Fran hotel. When I saw it in Autoweek (in silver), I thought it was stunning and wouldn't it be great if it was production model. Turns out that it was production.
If Alfa was inspiration, think that TL does better interpretation. Don't care for overdone V shape of Alpha.
G35 coupe is great design. G35 sedan very good, but not knockout like TL.
Don't necessarily agree that looks are very subjective. Think that when design is so very good (Porsche 911) or very bad (Pontiac Aztek) that most people can discern these differences. It gets harder when the designs are between these extremes.
There are elements to good design. Columnist for Automobile Magazine, Cumberford, is a former auto designer and he critiques car designs in almost every issue. Check it out. Just as in building and structure architecture (Parthenon, Golden Gate, etc.), autos must have proper overall shape, details and integration to be pleasing to the eye.
Okey dokey. :confuse: Totally subjective. Like art, film, food, etc...it's all in the eye of the beholder.
If Alfa was inspiration, think that TL does better interpretation. Don't care for overdone V shape of Alpha.
I agree 100%, the TL design takes the best of Italian design, and the groove of the BMW on the door, parallel to the door handles, that is just awesome. I really think they have pulled off a design miracle.
BTW, I am a native San Franciscan, and still appreciated the Golden Gate Bridge, a design brilliancy.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
You obviously have not driven an Accord or a TL.
Wonder what was inspiration for latest 3 series design. Know that 5 and 7 series is not entry level in this discussion, but it seems rear end on these cars was stolen from early 90's Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Cirrus and Plymouth (?) compacts.
But it is not on the same scale as precision as some of the other vehicles in this category such as CTS, G35 and 3 series.
2006 325i: $31,595
2006 330i: $37,295
This should give Toyota a little more breathing room in pricing the 2006 IS.
I'd assume you were referencing the broken down old building in Athens and not the Chicago restaurant that supposedly brought the gyros to the US
Maybe you meant Paris' Pantheon? :P
However, the 330 turned in the fastest time at the track doing the laps.
As the enthusiasts who frequent this board no doubt know, it takes more than HP to make the car handle with precision around the turns.
"Broken down old building" .... Interesting comment and maybe pretty revealing. Let's get back to merits of style/design of G35, TL, 330 and their performance attributes.
On design, what do long time followers of 3 series design and performance think about latest iteration of 3. Does 3 have still have "classic" style or is it heading toward generic? Have TL and G35 designs/styles left 3 series in dust? 3 series, except front, looks like Korean or Japanese compact. I guess that you can still have a good performing car, such as WRX, but don't have to have good styling. People will still buy it for performance, which is understandable, but will close eyes on styling. Some auto magazine writers also not so excited about new 3 style.
I think that the new 3 style looks more feminine. I refer to my 06 325 as “she” , like “my girl”
TL is a VERY nice and sharp looking car. It is really a matter of preference who likes what – TL or 3. Both are awesome styles. Before I thought of buying TL, but then I said to myself – no, I’ll spent a bit more $ but get what I always wanted. But still –TL is a very sharp and fast looking car. Really distinctive design, not like other cars.
G35 – sorry, in my opinion it does not look good. At least no comparison to TL or 3 styles. Drove G35 just a few days ago. Power is the only thing worth mentioning. Design –inside and exterior – far from perfect to my taste. No offence to all owners of G. Perfect engine, MUCH faster than my 325.
mike
As for styling...I totally selected the TL as it has similar side lines to my BMW 7 series. And there are so many sculpted edges which I only found during a wash (for instance...did you all see the trunk where there it is concave and "u" shaped?)
Also...we only have been talking today about the exterior styling. Where it excels (especially to the G35) is in the INTERIOR design and execution.
BTW...geez...where were all the TL'ers when I was getting chewed out on this forum during Friday?
The TL is a handsome vehicle, but something about it doesn't evoke a luxury feeling. Maybe it's all the creases and sharp edges. Or maybe it's a psychological thing because I know it's heavily Accord-based.
The G35 is not as pretty as the TL, but it looks more like a luxury car to me.
Now, the interior is a different story. The 2005 G35 has improved a lot, but the TL still wins hands down, except for the plasticky fake wood.
My wife's TL has brushed aluminum with the black interior, looks very sharp. With respect to the exterior, I think the G35 sedan exterior is nick but conservative almost boring, the coupe on the other hand the coupe looks great.
Hmm. It's a little more bland. The sides are too slab and unbroken. The old car's thick breaking lines and bisecting angles help give the car more edge. Original e46's had the best look; the facelifted e46 lost some of the car's angle and chisel. Can't say I'm real in love with the look of my 330i. Never owned a car I found real attractive though.
Have TL and G35 designs/styles left 3 series in dust?
Well, the poor G35 also suffers from slab-side-itus. The has absolutely nothing going on really anywhere. They tried with th facelife to infuse some right angles in the front but it's the sides of the car and the tail that lack any character at all. It's far too smooth - too 1980s for me.
The TL's flying wedge design seems more Audi mixed with Alfa than the sexiness of the original Acura Legend. That car still draws my eyes every time I see one (much like the second gen integra and vigor still make me look). Can't explain it but the TL almost seems like some wacky european film set designer for a cheap sci-fi film said, "I vill make future car" and out popped the TL with its hard angles, square taillights and rectangluar exhaust ports. Long, low, wide and most spaceshippy in that dark gray color. i see it and think of Dr. Evil saying with pride, "What do you think of your quasi-futuristic [car], Mr. Powers?"
3 series, except front, looks like Korean or Japanese compact. I guess that you can still have a good performing car, such as WRX, but don't have to have good styling.
That's what drives my purchase. The exterior of the car doesn't influence my purchase. For god's sake i owned a Protege until last month.
People will still buy it for performance, which is understandable, but will close eyes on styling. Some auto magazine writers also not so excited about new 3 style.
I'm not closing my eyes. It just doesn't matter to me. I can't grasp the rancor over the GTO or the hype surrounding the Solstice. the same question comes back: "But how does it drive?" The mustang GT reminds me of the only version of the 'Stang I ever felt anything visceral for (the stocker), but the car's suspension set up and engine make me dubious of the car. Sure one can mod it to look like something out of 'Road Warrior" but how does it perform? That's the end all and be all of the equation.
Back to work...fun break...
Oh really? Hmmm, the buidling I walked by daily for work wasn't the pantheon?
So, I imagined the building, its name, and the places I noticed around it...like the odd big of graffiti in one alley written in English? all part of my delusions? Weird. It's like I'm Ed Norton and I imagined an entirely alternate reality.
Mr. Google says maybe I'm not crazy: http://www.aviewoncities.com/paris/pantheon.htm
I'll talk to a friend in France tomorrow and ask her if her office isn't 3 blocks from a figment of my imagination.
Thought he wants performance? If so, M3 for brutal all out fun. 545i or M45 for good fun. GS430 if he's 60.
LOL, very funny post! :P
I thought the design of the car was fantastic, and a nice departure from Japanese conservative design. It has a definite Alfa influence, as well as some BMW features. I usually don't car about the exterior look of a car, but this car knocked me out. Then I checked out what this car has to offer in performance and lux features, I found it to be the best value out there, regardless of price.
"If value is the criteria, it may not match the Infiniti G35 or the Lexus IS 350, which goes on sale in October. And while no one can accuse the new 3 Series of not being fun to drive, it may no longer hold the clear edge that it once did."
Sounds like NYT isn't all that wild on 3. The battle between it and IS and next-gen G probably will be very close, too close for BMW's comfort.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/automobiles/24AUTO.html?8dpc
Hmm. Time for my styling critique.
3-Series: the older ones look aggressive. Kind of like they'll jump out and take a hunk out of a passerby's leg. The curvier shape of the new one looks a little blobby. Still a hell of a drive, though.
G35: suffers from what I call "lack of style": namely that it doesn't have a lot going on, especially from the side view, where it looks rather like a loaf of bread. That's the coupe. The sedan looks classier, especially in black, but still not a heart-stopper.
CTS: No comment :P
IS: Talking about the new one. It looks classy, but kind of boring. Not in a bad way, but it looks like a Lexus. Better than the G35 or CTS, but I honestly think that the TL looks better. Or rather, it's a mood thing. The TL is the wacky little sister who listens to new age, and the IS is the adult sis who listens to soft rock.
TL: a little crazy, but it works. I like the fact that Honda took a styling chance when they didn't have to. Kudos. I like the way it looks weird. This car, however, does not look as good in black as most of the others, probably since a nice silver would accentuate its creases better.
A4: The front end looks good ( I like the new grille). The back doesn't. Too boring.
And.. the original Parthenon is in Athens, Greece.. you know, the run-down one..
If you want to see a restored version, travel to Nashville, TN.. they have a very nice replica....
Okay.. now.. back to your mindless bickering about style..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The TL is the wacky little sister who listens to new age
LOL
http://www.aviewoncities.com/paris/pantheon.htm
Quote: On top of the montagne Ste-Geneviève, not far from the Sorbonne University and the Jardin du Luxembourg, the imposing Panthéon looks over the Quartier Latin.
That is the name of the building. The word is capitalized and everything - just as I used it.
Yes it's modeled after the Roman building: "The portico, with large Corinthian columns was modeled after the 2nd century Pantheon in Rome. " Regardless, I used the correct name and wrote it correctly. No big deal, just don't get up in my face if you don't take the time to do any research.
There are several Disney properties around the world. The decrepit one in Anaheim may have been the first but if some cat says he went to Disneyland in Japan, are you gonna flag him for it, screaming: "No, no, it's originally in California"? Man, lighten up, have a pop tart.