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I'm quite certain that with enough time, money and effort, you can swap out the stock passenger seat for one with power controls, exchange the JBL stereo for a Mark Levinson unit, remove rear seats for your Maybach-style Lazy-Boy, improve the sound dampening, etc.
Perhaps you might even find a way to remove the engine and drop in a BMW M5's 400hp V-8 if the existing minivan's performance didn't meet your demands either.
Oi vey.
Off hand, In the works are SAAB, Mercedes, Chrysler, Cadillac and Audi.
I basically feel that minivans should cover the entire range of vehicles. Car manufacturers seem to think that the luxury end should not be represented.
BTW - My wife indicated that she didn't want the rear Maybach-type seats. She wanted one in the front passenger seat. :-)
Like the one on the GM and Ford Vans.
I know that the navigation system comes with a rearview camera but I really want the rearview camera and the Parking Sonar.
It remains to be seen if these tourers will grow to include more of the minivans' features. These include the height and easy internal movement. For us, height is the most important aspect. Minivans are almost the only vehicles that offer 41+ inches of rear-opening height.
Thanks for the tip on these tourers.
1) Real pricing information
2) A first drive report from a major automotive magazine
Standing by.
Cheers
currently, the Chrylser Pacifica due in late march is the first entry. We would rate this offering very high on our short list.
While I agree that a high line Mini van would be nice, I think that there are price points that make it a difficult segment. The sport tourers will be a more visually attractive offering, but not as space effiecent. Mini-vans still have that stigma.
UNC8185: I can certainly understand this would be attractive to you. Car companies can afford to invest in huge demographic studies before the massive investment it takes to tool up and manufacture. Does not mean they are wrong!
Actually AWD only helps in cornering and handling if you are accelerting with enough force to break traction while cornering. While this is how rally drivers pilot there cars, in the words of a former president, "it wouldn't be prudent" in normal driving.
Snow tires actually help your lateral traction.
Is AWD better than FWD all things being equel - yes it is (for traction - obviously not for fuel economy). If you have AWD without snow tires and think you are doing all you can to be safe on the road and protect your family - you are very much mistaken. Snow tires are much more important than AWD.
You are not likely to get killed by not being able to accelerate faster than everybody else, but plenty of people get killed by not being able to stop. Stoping fast is not as sexy as going fast, but it is vastly more important.
If you do feel you need an AWD Sienna please do yourself a favor, and pay the relative pittance for 4 snow tires - you will be much better off.
There are also other dangers besides driving in the snow - the extra range from the better gas mileage of a FWD Sienna might keep you from having to stop for fuel in a bad neighborhood, or might keep you from running out of gas on a deserted road. Food for thought.
Like the one on the GM and Ford Vans.
I know that the navigation system comes with a rearview camera but I really want the rearview camera and the Parking Sonar.
Front and Rear Sonar should be available as part of a Limited upgrade
Go to Jack's Bowelville Garage website and look at the package availability. Look for Sequoiasaurus on this board and you'll find the link
So, as Rodney King said, "Can't we all get along?" Can't we agree to disagree? I think Toyota engineers went through this already and that is why they will have FWD with AWD as an option. Those who want the extra capabilities of AWD+TCS will pay a premium for the privelege plus bear the cross of lower mileage. Those who don't will be happy with the standard feature and higher mileage and will shell out another $500 for snow tires.
I, personally, will gladly get AWD+TCS (especially after this winter in upstate NY) and also buy some snow tires. (I like TireRack for snows.) The safety of my family is more important to me than a few hundred dollars for some extra safety features, and I'm pretty sure that I won't be ignoring basic safety or try to drive more recklessly just because I have AWD. Features are no replacement for common sense.
Let's progress to other, more important issues, such as pricing, warranties, features, repairs, quality, etc., and stop arguing about AWD vs. FWD.
BTW, any news on a First Drive or a Road Test Review?
If you get a flat with snow tires on AWD, Where is the spare? Do they have runflat snow tires?
I think its not been argued that AWD is better or not, just personal preferance as to whether its worth it or not. Of course AWD is better, but for some its not needed.
In the end its all subjective. Nobody right, nobody wrong.
Rodney King is a philosopher.
Socrates move over!
Information drives these forums, look at the honda future vehicle board. It's a desert...dry as a bone, speculation without substance is dry, unhelpful and boring. tight lipped honda and toyota drives us nuts.
C YA till it arrives
Color me G-O-N-E..............
Also FYI
Sienna production number thus far are as follows:
Week 12/30/02-1/4/03=0
Week 1/6/03-1/11/03=0
Week 1/13/03-1/18/03=0
Week 1/20/03-1/25/03=72
Week 1/27/03-2/1/03=167
Week 2/3/03-2/8/13=308
Total 04s built as of 2/8/03 probably about 750
These numbers only include Mon-Sat production for some reason and I'm not for certain whether or not Princeton works on Sundays.
Jack
Bowellville Garage
Toyota Minisite
Jack, Ken and the others have been trying to inform, enlighten, and encourage others. Try to stay on subject and be constructive.
Don't know if that has been mentioned before. Not to mention that the cost of replacement will be significantly higher as well.
http://www.chicagoautoshow.com/index.asp?id=1857
I do believe you were just having fun quoting Rodney King, that is why I was having fun too.
Given your apparent sensitivity, I will respect your wish.
I certainly desire not to step on Jack and Kens toes, they know me better.
But I was staying on the subject and constructive when asking: Are Runflats available as snow tires?
When you said you would be opting for AWD AND snow tires, and the fact that no spare tire will be carried on board for AWD equipped Sienna, would lead me to believe such a product exists.
So the question being: if there is no such product, then is it better in snow to run FWD with snow tires, or AWD with all seasons?
Actually sounds like a deductive philosophical question.
Quite frankly, the answer may lie in how much snow a sienna owner expierences. I would think running Snow tires were is only snows infrequentl would be a waste. Then AWD gives the best of both world. In snowbelt areas, FWD with tires may work best.
IF we must move on to bigger and better discusions to amuse ourselves, what about the benefits of globs of fake wood trim and is having simulated wood on 40% of the steering wheel surface a benefit or simply to envoke envy of simulating prestige? Won't those things get hot in the sun? Does simulated wood have the same gripping properties as stitched leather? or that matter a 100% genuine vigin premium urathane surface? Does real wood that looks as good as fake, worth it?
Orange alert, now we watch with the FBI any strange activity.
Thanks for the link.
Maybe we can get our Chi-town area participants to pose under the cameras at predetermined time so we can see them in the flesh!
Nah!
I sure hope the Sienna does. Had I thought about I could have asked in Detroit. Maybe someone could find out in Chicago for us this weekend.
Jack
Bowellville Garage
Toyota Minisite
P.S. CRV16 said the runflats won't give as good a ride because of the stiffer sidewall. Is this true? I thought a stiffer sidewall would give improved handling..the same way a lower profile tire handles better.
Questions are how much is the cost of buying, storing, maintaining, replacing an extra set of tires and mounting/dismounting twice a year at the shop, verses the one time cost of AWD? I have never incurred any expense with the AWD on the Summit in 90,000 miles besides purchase price and fluid changes. If decent tires cost $500 (never bought them myself), what do shops charge to change 'em twice a year? Where do you keep 'em? How much might AWD cost? Couple thou? Depending on regular mounting costs, you might come out ahead with the AWD after a few years. I'm not interested in scheduling time without my vehicle or waiting in a shop for mounting and balancing twice a year and giving up the AWD. Any thoughts? Am I just lazy? Is this tire changing more of a fact of life for others? I've certainly enjoyed the near-maintenance-free traction of AWD I've had for the last 6 years.
Love this board. Thanks for all the info and idea exchange.
Jim in Milwaukee
:-)
Buffalo has more snow than Wisconsin? I find that really interesting! Most of the snow Buffalo got last year was lake effect, and that can be hit or miss. This year, they are about average with Rochester & Syracuse.
Anyway, as I've stated before, it's not the snow that is critical to the need for AWD, its the slippery conditions, such as ice, heavy rain, etc. I hope no one is going to the track and racing a new Sienna. (Maybe there should be a M-van division, just like the pickup truck division. Odyssey & Sienna head-to-head!)
I was quoted $75 each way ($150/yr) to swap back and forth between regular and snow tires each season. Snow tires are about $110 each and last about 20 - 25K miles. My dad suggested that if we didn't buy AWD, we might want to consider buying a second set of 4 rims and keep the snow tires mounted. That way I could mount and dismount snow tires at home. Depending on the cost of the rims, this might be more cost effective than swapping out tires each year. He figures the rims could be sold on Ebay or at a junk yard when I sold the van so I may not be any worse off and have the benefit of another set of tires on hand.
I asked about pricing, and he said that they haven't come out with pricing yet. So, looks like no one knows what the prices will be. He further said that Toyota Logistics is stockpiling them at the plant for March release, so don't expect to see them at the dealerships before then. That came from a Toyota production worker in Princeton Indiana.
Next. I noticed on the Toyota "Build Your Own" that when you get to the "options" portion for the 2003 Siennas, they do not have "no options" as an option, LOL. What if I don't want any options? Is that still an option, LOL.
Thanks!
Thanks.
After destination charges and other options, I would expect to see most CE's somewhere in the neighborhood of $25,000 which is still VERY inexpensive for a VERY large minivan with lots of standard equipment.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Thanks.
Thanks!
I also live in Milwaukee. I have a set of snow tires on a set of rims for my rear wheel drive Mustang - am VERY happy to have them as I am looking out my window right now and it looks like we are in the middle of a snow globe being shaken up at this moment - I can't even see the building across the street!
Snow tires help immensely over all season radials. My Mustang drives much better than my wife's 98 Sienna in the snow, even when she got brand new Michelin XGV4 (I think) all season tires.
I do not know the cost to have a shop change them each spring/winter, as I do it myself at home. I just store the off season tires in the basement. I bought a jack, compressor and impact wrench so I can change them myself. Well worth the investment for the extra rims, tires, and other equipment to have a safe drive in the winter, IMO. Plus, it extends the life of my high traction summer tires. The Mustang has 44,000 miles on it, but the summer tires have only about 30,000 on them.
Dave
Jack