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Comments
A
If this is ABS, 1) why would it happen on dry pavement? 2) why has this never happened on any other vehicle I have with ABS? 3) why was Subaru of America unable to explain what it was when they responded to my calls and letters when this occured on dry pavement?
A
Haven't your other ABS vehicles given the same pedal feel/behavior at one time or another?? Every ABS vehicle I have owned -- Hondas, Subarus, and Mazdas -- all do the same exact thing when ABS kicks in. The pedal pulsates and sinks, and you can feel ABS pump the brakes. It's hard to mistake.
ABS will activate on dry pavement if any of the wheels lock up. I would recommend you have someone watch your vehicle when this "issue" is happening, and I bet one or more of the wheels is locking up. From there, try to figure out why -- are you going too fast, braking too hard, is there loose sand or gravel, etc.
Finally, be aware that ABS can falsely activate if you hit certain types of bumps/ripples in the road (usually requires at least 20-25mph speed or more). Some vehicles are worse than others in this respect, but I can honestly say my Outbacks have been better than other vehicles I have owned.
Craig
Anyway, the symptom do sound like the ABS is doing its thing. In my '98 OB and '99 OBS, I'll feel a very strong pulsing recoil on the brake pedal and hear the jackhammer like noise in sync with the recoil. With my '03 WRX, the feel and sound is different much like you'd described, grinding feel [throbbing] and clunking sound [thumping].
What you've experienced isn't a flaw, it is normal and it is the ABS is what it is
If not a flaw, then why is it activating even on dry pavement?
a - lack of grip from worn tires or the tire model itself that the brakes are over powering them and causing sooner lock-up.
and
b - whenever, most of the time, when there's a weight shift to the front that causes the nose to dip/dive the ABS will kick in when braking. In your case, you were descending a steep driveway/street and you're already diving to start. I'm technically challenged so that's my best explanation.
-Dave
p/s I think worn shocks can also induce the ABS when braking too.
The more I read what you have written and the more I read up on ABS, the more it sounds as if ABS is what it is.
I am still perplexed why it only happens once, at almost the precise place in the descent, every morning but won't do it again once the vehicle is warmed up. If it sits for a while, the sensation is likely to re-occur.
On dry pavement in the AM, the clunk occurs, as I said, in the same place. It happens once and it's over. The pedal is not depressed enough to lock any wheels but just some pressure to keep me flying down the hill.
I will read up on this some more and look forward to your responses.
Arnold
it is a 2004 Outback Wagon, 6,000 miles. The weight shift to the front is an interesting idea and one I will further look into.
Arnold
Arnold
I am aware that all of you are way more knowledgable about these things than I am and I appreciate the time you have taken to address my comments.
What you and others describe appears to be the same thing I am experiencing. Again, this has never happened with my Honda so that is still confusing to me.
Arnold
-Brian
Thanks
Arnold
the workaround for both problems is the same-- wiggle the steering wheel slightly.
if this is, or becomes, ineffectual you'll need a new ignition barrel. it happens on high mileage vehicles... how many miles on your '98 OB?
~Colin
You gotta be like me and wait at least half a model year. ;-)
-juice
Plus I have the peace of mind of good friends watching over me at SOA. :-)
Ken
This winter/spring we are planning on converting the legacy into a near-showroom stock race car with only minor changes to it.
-mike
Anyone can comment what could be wrong w/ my car. And since it's not under warrenty, how expensive could it be to get it fix? Thanks.
Rgds,
Jack
-mike
I find that my ABS doesn't usually engage at speeds below 10, sometimes 15 mph. But, this is on a '96 so things probably changed a fair bit by '04. One thing is for certain though; when it does engage, it is NOISY!
Way off topic side note: I almost hate driving the Subaru so much because when I get back into my '69s, I have to remember how I learned to drive instead of modified Subaru driving. It astonishes me that I obliterate the slick roads up here daily without slowing down or even flinching in the Subaru, but when I drive my '69 Chevy C20 in the same conditions, I'm puttering along at 35-40 mph and know I'm pushing it if an emergency came up (like a moose in the way).
-mike
Brian
Thanks for yr reply. I checked the drained today and there's no clogged in those holes. I pour water in those holes and the water out comes out properly from the bottom of the car.
I finally figure out the source of the problem when I pour the water to other side of the trail (see here). Water come out from properly from the rear bottom of the car but also leak seriously inside the car ( pic1 & pic2 ). It means if the car parked in a slope uphill, the water will goes to the rear and water will leaked into my trunk. Is it normal or it just happen to my car?
My primary reason to buy the S+ is the huge moonroof and I never thought it could become a nightmare.
Good to know you're still driving the SVX! BTW, how did you learn it's 60/40?
Ken
Yes, they are the same 12V and the cigarette lighter socket is the same. There are a few cars that are going to a 24V standard, but those are rare.
Ken
Craig
I had this car for 4 years (65k of mileage) and I wonder if this problem still covered under warrenty. Can someone from SOA (Patti?) clarify this? Thanks a lot.
Rgds,
Jack
B
I wouldn't worry too much about short term use of a full size spare that has a small wear related circumference difference. This is minor compared to the size difference of the mini spare and the heat buildup in the center and rear diff that those wheels cause. Just get the flat fixed ASAP and back in its rightful place.
Steve
First of a new model is certainly one cause for concern, and may lead to somewhat greater headaches. But frankly, I think much of your current problems might be related to how the car was driven and cared for by the previous owner. You may have come into the relationship after considerable misuse/abuse. That is the downside of buying used. The entry price is lower, but you may end up making it up over the long haul if the previous owner was not kind to the vehicle. Hopefully, after these wear items are resolved, the experience will be better.
But as a precaution, maybe you had better assume that other things were not attended to, and change out that tranny and diff fluid!
Steve
SJ
-juice
Cheers Pat.
After reading all the positive reviews on the 05' Legacy GT and a great test drive, I took the plunge and bought my very first Subaru, a 05 GT Legacy Wagon on Dec. 22, 04 from Larry H. Miller in Salt Lake City. The very next day, I couldn't get this brand new car started and I was stranded in a friend's place. The engine wouldn't crank at all. It was totally silent as I turned the ignition. No, it wasn't a dead battery either. All powered equipment like radio, doors, seats, wipers, headlights worked fine. I did try jump-starting the engine just to confirm it wasn't the battery. Suspecting that the engine imobilizer had kicked it, I researched the owner's manual thoroughly but there was no mention of the symptom nor any remedy. So, finally I had to have my brand new car towed to the dealership for service. Right after the car got off the tow truck, a mechanic jumped in and turned the ignition. The engine cranked over and started right away on his very first attempt. They took car in the shop and checked it out and couldn't find anything wrong with it. I was told there was nothing they could do. So I drove the Legacy home hoping it was just a one-time glitch although I had this haunted feeling every time I put the key into the ignition that dead silence would greet me. Well, the Legacy had started fine since then till yesterday morning (01/06/05) as I was ready to head for work and turned the ignition. My fear had become a reality, it was dead again with exactly the same symptom as the first time. Both time the car went dead, it was snowy and below freezing. 14 days after it left the dealer lot, the Legacy took its second tow truck trip back to the dealer garage. It was even the same towing company and same truck. After it got off the tow truck, the same mechanic jumped in, and you guessed it, just like last time, the Legacy fired right up. This time, I wouldn't take "there's nothing we could do" for an answer. I went and grabbed a Sales Manager and politely explained to him my misfortune with my brand new $30K purchase. They still have no clue what was acting up but they kept my car in the shop this time for more diagnostics. So, here I am, still waiting a response from my dealer and searching this forum for a similar experience reported by a fellow crew but couldn't find anything so far. Could anyone out there relate to my experience? Your help would be greatly appreciated.
(I also posted this at "Legacy/Outback Wagon: Problems & Solutions." Sorry for the double post but I'm desperate for some advice)
When I took it to a body shop to investigate, they tested the water drains in the moonroof and they worked fine. THey chalked it up to a fluke and it never happened again (although I sold the car since then).
This will not be covered under warranty anymore I'm certain of it. That type of problem would only be covered on the bumper to bumper warranty and would have expired after 3 years or 36000 miles, whichever came first.
Sorry about your profuse leaking. :-( If you have a trusted body shop, perhaps they can help you out?
Elissa
-Frank
-Frank
I get the impression that your are posting this to the boards, and participating in the weekly chat in hopes of action from SOA, you will be severely dissapointed in the lack of response.
The SOA presence typically is the avenue of last resort when things go wrong - especially in the the area of customer relations.
You really need to follow the standard escalation pathway regarding your problem.
First, start with the dealer. Find out if this is covered under warrantee. If you are a 'valued' customer, it may be. Or, they will work some deal for you.
Second, if you do not feel that you are satified with the response of the dealer, open a case with SOA - call the 1-800-subaru3 number, or go to subaru dot com. Again, if this is a customer satisfaction issue, they will escalate through their system.
I will predict (unfortunately) that you will probably find that this is covered under the 3/36 warrantee, and are looking at an out of pocket repair.
I hope this helps. Rob M.
I just think they need to try something of substance. You may not know if it worked until a month later, when the problem goes away, hopefully.
-juice
Just a guess,
Owen
Craig
Like Elissa, I am living in California and where it rarely rain. (And I always park my car under covered). I start noticing some water in the trunk last Winter, but I thought it was from the water I gave to my dogs. This problem could exist since day 1 but it just impossible for me to discover it under the 3/36 period. It just very disppointing to found I am not along in the water leaking issue. (But unfortunatly, I am the only one who found it after the warrenty period....)
I will keep posting to let U guys know it goes.
Rgds,
Jack
Owen
Jun
Chuck